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Repentance ( Must a person forsake his sins before he can come to Christ? )

Member
Where does our faith come from, how do we come to believe? Our faith/belief comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.

So do you understand that we get faith in a very human way, and we don't get faith supernaturally? We get faith by hearing and believing the supernatural message.

Some people got faith when they saw Jesus do miracles, and some people’s faith increased after Jesus did a miracle.
Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 You cant have Faith until you are born again.
 
Member
I agree since no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him John 6:44 but He still gave the promise that all those who seek, shall find.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas.
9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

This is why He knew no one in those places would receive Him but knew where to send the disciples to Macedonia to preach the gospel unto them because the Father knew they were seeking Him to receive His Son to be saved.

It is because they are sinners that they cannot approach Him unless the Father chooses to draw them but He foresee and knows who seeks Him to receive Him from those that do not.

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

So regardless of the promise of all those that seek, shall find, the Father still has to choose to draw them unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved. In this, we are in agreement.
The only ones who seek God are the born again ones who God has already saved. Otherwise Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
 
Loyal
God taught me. Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Everybody is seeking god (whether they know it or not) whether it is the god of this world (Everyone,s default god) the devil, or the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. There are only two families on earth, your father is either the devil (god of this world) or God the father. Everyone knows God exists because the Lord God has shown it to them. If anyone says I don't believe God exists God calls that person a liar. (1 John 5:10) Light has already come, but men loved darkness (their default god) rather than light (God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob) because their deeds are evil.
 
Member
Everybody is seeking god (whether they know it or not) whether it is the god of this world (Everyone,s default god) the devil, or the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob. There are only two families on earth, your father is either the devil (god of this world) or God the father. Everyone knows God exists because the Lord God has shown it to them. If anyone says I don't believe God exists God calls that person a liar. (1 John 5:10) Light has already come, but men loved darkness (their default god) rather than light (God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob) because their deeds are evil.
No everybody isnt seeking God, not the True God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Now all men perhaps seek a god by natural instinct.
 
Active
The only ones who seek God are the born again ones who God has already saved. Otherwise Rom 3:11
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Then explain the vision.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas.
9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

Romans 3:11 is true because no one "can" seek after God to find Him but that is why the Father has to draw them unto the Son to give them unto the Son to save them.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day...
....44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I am sure there are a lot of seekers that seek God, or something, but the Father knows who will receive His Son from those that would not for why He would hide the truth from the prudent and yet reveal unto the babes.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

It is like understanding parables as the Father enables the seeker to see the truth so they can believe in His Son to be saved just as He gives them ears to hear and eyes to see in understanding parables.

Matthew 13:
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

So regardless of the promise that all those that seek, shall find, only the Father can draw them unto the Son to believe in Him for them to be saved thus by the grace of God we believe in Jesus Christ.
 
Member
Then explain the vision.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas.
9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

Romans 3:11 is true because no one "can" seek after God to find Him but that is why the Father has to draw them unto the Son to give them unto the Son to save them.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day...
....44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I am sure there are a lot of seekers that seek God, or something, but the Father knows who will receive His Son from those that would not for why He would hide the truth from the prudent and yet reveal unto the babes.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

It is like understanding parables as the Father enables the seeker to see the truth so they can believe in His Son to be saved just as He gives them ears to hear and eyes to see in understanding parables.

Matthew 13:
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

So regardless of the promise that all those that seek, shall find, only the Father can draw them unto the Son to believe in Him for them to be saved thus by the grace of God we believe in Jesus Christ.
Explain the vision ? I dont understand, what does that have to do with anythng ? Nothing changes Rom 3:11 that men by nature dont seek the True God !
 
Active
Explain the vision ? I dont understand, what does that have to do with anythng ? Nothing changes Rom 3:11 that men by nature dont seek the True God !
Right and so the Father foresees who will seek Him to receive Him from those that would not for why He has to draw them unto the Son to reveal His Son to them so they can believe and be saved.

It is because of man's sinful nature is why they do not seek Him nor can they for why the Father has to draw them to seek Him to be saved.

So His word is true that all those that seek, shall find, and so if any sinner is seeking, it is because the Father is drawing them unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved.

That is why there was that vision about seekers in Macedonia because the Father was working on those sinners in seeking Him. It is not like the sinners sent that vision as if they were seeking the Good News, but the Father did, foreseeing their need/desire to be saved.
 
Member
Right and so the Father foresees who will seek Him to receive Him from those that would not for why He has to draw them unto the Son to reveal His Son to them so they can believe and be saved.

It is because of man's sinful nature is why they do not seek Him nor can they for why the Father has to draw them to seek Him to be saved.

So His word is true that all those that seek, shall find, and so if any sinner is seeking, it is because the Father is drawing them unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved.

That is why there was that vision about seekers in Macedonia because the Father was working on those sinners in seeking Him. It is not like the sinners sent that vision as if they were seeking the Good News, but the Father did, foreseeing their need/desire to be saved.
Those who God regenerates with new life will seek Him, but those who are unregenerate natural men, they dont seek God Rom 3:11
 
Member
The problem here is that the Lord came back with those saints to do battle with the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem and since that be the case, when is Satan in the pit for a thousand years? After the Lord touched down on the Mount of Olives to do battle with the world's armies in that new valley of Armeggedon when the Mount of Olives splits in two thus creating that soon to be valley of slaughter. So the Lord had to have been on earth when Satan is in the pit for a thousand years BEFORE He resurrected those saints as described as having been killed going through the great tribulation.

So there is no meeting the Lord in the air as that rapture event takes place before the great tribulation for why Jesus is warning saved believers to be ready & willing to go or else.
Look, I have no intention to convince you of what I believe about the timing of the rapture, all I’m challenging is the definition of the word. By no means would it be a “sudden disappearance” or ascension into the stratosphere like most dispensationalists believe. Bible is very clear on this, that “for dust we are, to dust we shall return”, only the spirit goes up to the Lord, our mortal bodies will return to the earth like animals. Of course, there will be those remnants who miraculously survive the great tribulation till the second coming (Matt. 24:30-31), and that would be Israel, preserved by the earth, and we the church will be resurrected with new bodies - as our souls return.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings,

It sounds like you have something in your mind about predestination and God making Abraham believe and obey without him knowing it.

that thought never entered my mind and therefore i can say is incorrect.

No, the question was simple enough. We can skim over Scripture and make doctrine from our skimming but we can also go a little deeper, if God permit, and discover what it is that we are meant to learn.
We have Christ as an example, through God's grace; revealing the truth, as He is the truth revealed (praise the Lord) and if we look unto Him, the author and finisher of our Faith, we are granted to see more clearly what and why and how all things pertaining to the accounts we have in Scripture, have their place, perfectly, and if we go on to follow Him, where He leads those who follow Him, we are perfected and made complete in Him, Who is the Head over all His Body, to His praise Honour and Glory, now and ever, amen.

again, why did they do what they did?

Finding this helps to get everything else about faith in order.

simply rolling off the tongue or keyboard does not address anything.

why did they do as the did?

seeking requires looking for that which is not yet seen, does it not? --- or at least, not yet realised and therefore not yet real, as in the real thing, the Word Who was manifest that al may see and glorify God in Heaven...


Bless you ....><>
 
Active
Greetings,



that thought never entered my mind and therefore i can say is incorrect.

No, the question was simple enough. We can skim over Scripture and make doctrine from our skimming but we can also go a little deeper, if God permit, and discover what it is that we are meant to learn.
We have Christ as an example, through God's grace; revealing the truth, as He is the truth revealed (praise the Lord) and if we look unto Him, the author and finisher of our Faith, we are granted to see more clearly what and why and how all things pertaining to the accounts we have in Scripture, have their place, perfectly, and if we go on to follow Him, where He leads those who follow Him, we are perfected and made complete in Him, Who is the Head over all His Body, to His praise Honour and Glory, now and ever, amen.

again, why did they do what they did?

Finding this helps to get everything else about faith in order.

simply rolling off the tongue or keyboard does not address anything.

why did they do as the did?

seeking requires looking for that which is not yet seen, does it not? --- or at least, not yet realised and therefore not yet real, as in the real thing, the Word Who was manifest that al may see and glorify God in Heaven...


Bless you ....><>

The Bible tells us where faith comes from. We do not get faith supernaturally, as many teach, but we get faith in a very human way, from reading, hearing the supernatural message, and being taught, convinced and persuaded. Some also believed after seeing the miracles.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings,

The Bible tells us where faith comes from. We do not get faith supernaturally, as many teach, but we get faith in a very human way, from reading, hearing the supernatural message, and being taught, convinced and persuaded. Some also believed after seeing the miracles.

we talk about faith, but what is it?

Jesus is the Lord


Bless you ....><>
 
Active
Those who God regenerates with new life will seek Him, but those who are unregenerate natural men, they dont seek God Rom 3:11
God does NOT regenerate people until they believe and obey Him.

Paul explains that we were not given the Holy Spirit by doing the purification works of the law, but because we believe and obey Jesus.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

God does NOT save unbelievers.
 
Active
No everybody isnt seeking God, not the True God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Now all men perhaps seek a god by natural instinct.
Paul was quoting Old Testament scripture about a certain time.

He wasn't talking about no one ever seeks God!

Read this scripture, it destroys your false beliefs.


1 Chronicles 28:9 "And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

And there are a lot more scriptures to prove you are in falseness.
 
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