Repentance ( Must a person forsake his sins before he can come to Christ? )

[Curtis]

they have faith and confess and repent of their sins,

This is true!

 

[GodB4Us]

godb4us



God knows who seeks Him because He chose them to seek Him and caused them to approach Him Ps 65:4

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

I agree since no man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him John 6:44 but He still gave the promise that all those who seek, shall find.

Acts 16:6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.
8 And they passing by Mysia came down to Troas.
9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

This is why He knew no one in those places would receive Him but knew where to send the disciples to Macedonia to preach the gospel unto them because the Father knew they were seeking Him to receive His Son to be saved.

It is because they are sinners that they cannot approach Him unless the Father chooses to draw them but He foresee and knows who seeks Him to receive Him from those that do not.

Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

So regardless of the promise of all those that seek, shall find, the Father still has to choose to draw them unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved. In this, we are in agreement.

 

[God's Truth]

The reason why you first must have faith before you confess is because everything a person does without faith is a sin. (Romans 14:23)

That scripture means something else than what you think.

I am going to explain it to you...

The Jews had a special diet and the Gentiles did not.
God made all food clean since Jesus.
But let's say you eat some pork but you still think it is a sin, but you eat it anyway, then you sinned, because you thought it was a sin when you ate it. You didn't have faith that it was okay to eat that meat but you ate it anyway.

Do you understand?

If you eat the meat in faith that God says it is okay to eat, but you don't have faith that it is, but you eat it anyway, then that is sin.

How can a person believe his confession is going to do anygood if he has no faith to believe it will?

He should have faith. Jesus tells us to. I don't understand why you are saying that.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

How do you apply these verses to mean below?

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

This is where the idea of the rapture comes from as caught away like that.

In Zechariah 14:1-5, it is prophesied that the Lord will come back with the ( raptured ) saints & touched down on the Mount of Olives to do battle with the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem at the end of the great tribulation.

BUT

In Revelation 20:1-6, when Satan is in the pit for a thousand years thus alluding to the defeat of the world's armies, that means Jesus is already on earth after having touched down on the Mount of Olives for when that resurrection takes place.

So at this resurrection after the great tribulation, after the defeat of the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem for why Satan is in the pit for a thousand years, those saints are not meeting the Lord in the air.

So who were the saints that the Lord came back with to do battle against the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem unless they were the raptured saints, Christ, the firstfruits before the great tribulation?

God is judging His House at the pre great tribulation rapture event for why He is warning believers and churches to be ready or else and so the "happy" notion that every saved believer will be ready and willing to leave is false.

Whatever you think this "catching away means", the timing is clear, 1 Thess. 4:16 says it's scheduled AFTER the mass resurrection, and according to Rev. 20:5, first resurrection takes place AFTER the great tribulation. Those who return with Christ are not the saints, but "armies of heaven" or "hosts of heaven" (Rev 19:14), which means angels.

 

[GodB4Us]

Whatever you think this "catching away means", the timing is clear, 1 Thess. 4:16 says it's scheduled AFTER the mass resurrection, and according to Rev. 20:5, first resurrection takes place AFTER the great tribulation. Those who return with Christ are not the saints, but "armies of heaven" or "hosts of heaven" (Rev 19:14), which means angels.

Zechariah 14:1-5 specifically written them as saints and not angels returning with Him.

After the great tribulation, there will be only a mass resurrection and nobody living being caught up to meet the Lord in the air when He is already on earth after having defeated the world's armies for why Satan is in the pit for a thousand years.

This is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready now in these latter days before the great tribulation or else miss out on the Marriage Supper in Heaven where after they meet with the Bridegroom in the air, for when they will be forever with the Lord in Heaven. There is a reception hence the Marriage Supper or the King's Supper before His return as the King of kings in judging the world to establish His 1000 year reign on earth with Satan being in the pit for a thousand years.

 

[B-A-C]

be ready now in these latter days before the great tribulation

Hmmm...

Matt 24:29; Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30; And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:24; But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mark 13:25; And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mark 13:26; And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27; And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Rev 20:5; But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Zechariah 14:1-5 specifically written them as saints and not angels returning with Him.

What version are you reading? Neither saints nor angels were mentioned in there.

After the great tribulation, there will be only a mass resurrection and nobody living being caught up to meet the Lord in the air when He is already on earth after having defeated the world's armies for why Satan is in the pit for a thousand years.

Then why did Paul say so in 1 Thess. 4:15-17?

This is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready now in these latter days before the great tribulation or else miss out on the Marriage Supper in Heaven where after they meet with the Bridegroom in the air, for when they will be forever with the Lord in Heaven. There is a reception hence the Marriage Supper or the King's Supper before His return as the King of kings in judging the world to establish His 1000 year reign on earth with Satan being in the pit for a thousand years.

If we were to be united with Jesus in heaven, then we'd be already dead, as told in Seal 5 (Rev. 6:9-10). Those who still remain on Earth are the Israelites, aka "tribes of the earth" in Matt. 24:30.

 

[*Lavender]

This is an interesting topic but maybe we can all over analyse, by looking too much into the mechanism of how God works.
I understand that many can say and do all the things that by appearance look look iike they are saved, but they may not be..
Anyone concerned about that can sow the seeds and pray and leave the rest with God
Nobody can convert another person. Nobody can convert themselves. That's the work of the Holy Spirit with entering a relationship with God.

There maybe a lot circulating around about Faith alone. There is also a lot circulating around about repentance.

The latter is the case in many religions. They are not necessarily true repentances and not true when they don't come to know Jesus.

Repentance cannot be achieved "solely" through manmade effort. A true repentance needs humility that brings a change of heart and a true relationship in Christ, that redeems the sins.
That is only through the help of the Holy Spirit.
A repentance without the Holy Spirit is dead.
For that's like religion . Having a form of godliness but denying the power. 2 Timothy 3:5

 

[*Lavender]

This is edited. Please see this post and not the post before, if you are reading this.

This is an interesting topic but maybe we can all over analyse, by looking too much into the mechanism of how God works.
I understand that many can say and do all the things that by appearance look look iike they are saved, but they may not be..
Anyone concerned about that can sow the seeds and pray and leave the rest with God
Nobody can convert another person. Nobody can convert themselves. That's the work of the Holy Spirit with entering a relationship with God.

There maybe a lot circulating around about Faith alone. There is also a lot circulating around about repentance.

The latter is the case in many religions. They are not necessarily true repentances and not true when they don't come to know Jesus.

Repentance cannot be achieved "solely" through manmade effort. A true repentance needs humility that brings a change of heart in turning away from their sins and unbelief and turning to a true relationship in Christ, that redeems the sins.
That is only through the help of the Holy Spirit.
A repentance without the Holy Spirit is dead.
For that's like religion . Having a form of godliness but denying the power. 2 Timothy 3:5

 

[*Lavender]

Deleted

 

[GodB4Us]

Hmmm...

Matt 24:29; Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matt 24:30; And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matt 24:31; And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

There is tribulation and then there is great tribulation.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

So per Matthew 24:29 what tribulation of those days before the rapture event?

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days....

Verses 23 to 28 is happening now as the tribulation of our days where saved believers are going to places where they can get closer to these movements of what they believe is the Holy Spirit but it is not, in Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto's Blessings, slain in the spirit, holy laughter movement, and even Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade where he announces the falling of the Holy Spirit on already saved believers to cause them to fall backwards in bringing miracles.

These be the tribulations of our days for why God has to judge His House first at the pre great tribulation rapture event where they deny He is in us since salvation at the calling of the gospel when we had first believed and got saved and therefore cannot be received again.

2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, .......

The iniquity was already at work in Paul's days, but happening in droves in these latter days...

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Isn't that the appeal of the Pentecostal church to relive the glory days of Pentecost to call believers out of their denomination to go to where the movement of the " Spirit " is at as if they can get closer to God by a phenomenon?

Mark 13:24; But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
Mark 13:25; And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Mark 13:26; And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27; And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Mark 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

After that tribulation of the falling away from the faith shall the rapture come.

Rev 20:5; But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The wording "first resurrection" was written because of verse 5 in signifying that resurrection was to happen first before the rest of the dead are resurrected later on. It was not inferring the rapture event for when they meet the Lord in the air because this resurrection happened AFTER Satan is in the pit for a thousand years and so Jesus is already on earth after returning with the saints to do battles against the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem in Zechariah 14:1-5 for when his feet touched down on the Mount of Olives and had defeated the world's armies.

So we are to be ready now because many have fallen away from the faith for why God as the Bridegroom is coming to judge His House first for why those not found abiding in Him will be cast into the bed of the great tribulation for committing spiritual fornication and spiritual adultery in Revelation 2:18-25 and for knowing the depths of Satan for which they speak as per tongues for private use Isaiah 8:19 & 1 Timothy 4:1

Remember the tradition taught of us to avoid that iniquity that we had received the sanctification of the Spirit & the belief of the truth at the calling of the gospel and at no other time.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

May God cause the increase.

 

[GodB4Us]

This is an interesting topic but maybe we can all over analyse, by looking too much into the mechanism of how God works.
I understand that many can say and do all the things that by appearance look look iike they are saved, but they may not be..
Anyone concerned about that can sow the seeds and pray and leave the rest with God
Nobody can convert another person. Nobody can convert themselves. That's the work of the Holy Spirit with entering a relationship with God.

There maybe a lot circulating around about Faith alone. There is also a lot circulating around about repentance.

The latter is the case in many religions. They are not necessarily true repentances and not true when they don't come to know Jesus.

Repentance cannot be achieved "solely" through manmade effort. A true repentance needs humility that brings a change of heart and a true relationship in Christ, that redeems the sins.
That is only through the help of the Holy Spirit.
A repentance without the Holy Spirit is dead.
For that's like religion . Having a form of godliness but denying the power. 2 Timothy 3:5

Only with Jesus Christ in us is how we live as the sons of God, living a reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ in living that life of repentance, even for those that just believed in His name for how we are saved.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[GodB4Us]

What version are you reading? Neither saints nor angels were mentioned in there.

KJV

Zechariah 14:1Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Then why did Paul say so in 1 Thess. 4:15-17?

Paul was referring to the rapture event as coming before the great tribulation. That is when there will be a mass resurrection and those living will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air to be forever with the Lord in Heaven for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb and not on earth for when that fire comes on a third of the earth Revelation 8:7 and those saints & former believers left behind will die Revelation 18:1-24 as their works will follow them. Revelation 14:13

If we were to be united with Jesus in heaven, then we'd be already dead, as told in Seal 5 (Rev. 6:9-10). Those who still remain on Earth are the Israelites, aka "tribes of the earth" in Matt. 24:30.

Jesus is warning the churches to be ready or else be cast into the bed of the great tribulation Revelation 2:18-25 for why they are to hold fast to escape the hour of temptation that shall try all remaining on the earth & keep their crowns Revelation 3:7-11 That is what running that race is all about; not just to avoid losing the reward of crowns but to avoid being a castaway. Salvation is not lost, but being partakers of the firstfruits, the vessels unto honor, is that loss

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

 

[*Lavender]

Only with Jesus Christ in us is how we live as the sons of God, living a reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ in living that life of repentance, even for those that just believed in His name for how we are saved.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

See that "He gave power to become sons of God."

That's the power of God to be transformed. Otherwise it's a form of godliness that denys the power.
That's religion.

A life in union with Jesus is a life that produces the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
The good work becomes completed.
The deeds of the flesh cannot be crucified overnight. Although the garment in Christ is worn who was crucified in our place.
The actuality of the deeds of the flesh in a child of God being crucified is a gradual journey and transformation.


Galatians 5:22-24

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

KJV

Zechariah 14:1Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

OK, seems like I did miss that part, but shouldn't these saints be the the same ones in Revelation who come out of the tribulation? And Zach. 14:5 doesn't say that they come down from heaven. Instead, there's a gathering of God's people in the last days from all over the earth.

 

[GodB4Us]

OK, seems like I did miss that part, but shouldn't these saints be the the same ones in Revelation who come out of the tribulation? And Zach. 14:5 doesn't say that they come down from heaven. Instead, there's a gathering of God's people in the last days from all over the earth.

The problem here is that the Lord came back with those saints to do battle with the world's armies marching unto Jerusalem and since that be the case, when is Satan in the pit for a thousand years? After the Lord touched down on the Mount of Olives to do battle with the world's armies in that new valley of Armeggedon when the Mount of Olives splits in two thus creating that soon to be valley of slaughter. So the Lord had to have been on earth when Satan is in the pit for a thousand years BEFORE He resurrected those saints as described as having been killed going through the great tribulation.

So there is no meeting the Lord in the air as that rapture event takes place before the great tribulation for why Jesus is warning saved believers to be ready & willing to go or else.

 

[Brightfame52]

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,

How many men did God reveal his existence to?

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from Heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19 because the thing which may be known of God is clearly revealed within them, for God revealed it to them.

Believing that God exist doesnt mean much if you dont believe in God. Many Idolaters belive God exist. However only Gods elect believe in the True God. Even the demons believe God exist friend James 2 19

19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

 

[Brightfame52]

Feel free to show the difference.

If you cant see it already, i will be wasting time.

 

[Brightfame52]

not anymore.

How many men (people) did Jesus say he would draw unto himself if he be lifted up from the earth?

Joh 12:32 And I, if and when I am lifted up from the earth [on the cross], will draw and attract all men [Gentiles as well as Jews] to Myself. (AMP)

Yes, it hasnt changed. Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Paul wrote this long after Christ died. None seeks after the True Christ since He is God !

 

[Brightfame52]

God doesn't teach wrong but your teachers and you do.

God is my teacher. Your gripe is with God.