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Repentance ( Must a person forsake his sins before he can come to Christ? )

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Those who God regenerates with new life will seek Him, but those who are unregenerate natural men, they dont seek God Rom 3:11
Seems kind of backwards there. Salvation before they seek Him? It is the Father that draws them unto the Son to believe in His Son to be saved. That drawing is the Father leading them to seek Him. John 6:44
 
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Look, I have no intention to convince you of what I believe about the timing of the rapture, all I’m challenging is the definition of the word. By no means would it be a “sudden disappearance” or ascension into the stratosphere like most dispensationalists believe. Bible is very clear on this, that “for dust we are, to dust we shall return”, only the spirit goes up to the Lord, our mortal bodies will return to the earth like animals. Of course, there will be those remnants who miraculously survive the great tribulation till the second coming (Matt. 24:30-31), and that would be Israel, preserved by the earth, and we the church will be resurrected with new bodies - as our souls return.
You may have to reconsider that belief in light of Paul's words here as led by the Holy Spirit to write.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

There will be no sudden disappearance as every one will see Him when He comes as the Bridegroom and those few abiding in Him will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air as He will judge His House first leaving many saved believers behind for not being ready Luke 12:40-49 & John 15:1-8 and even some will be unwilling to go because they loved their lives more than to leave it for Him to attend the King's Supper above which will hardly be a temptation for any saved believer at the end of the great tribulation being on the run from the beast while dying out because they do not have the mark of the beast to buy & sell to survive in that coming New World Order. Luke 14:15-24 & Luke 21:33-36
 
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Faith alone is dead.
Only in regards to you when you share your faith in God to provide TO the poor without leading by example TO the poor for why your faith in God to provide is dead in the eyes of the poor that your faith will not profit the poor nor save the poor. Again, James was never talking about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works.

You do realize that our believing in His Son is the work of the Father?

No man can come to the Son unless the Father draws him per John 6:44 as He will hide the truth from the prudent & the wise and can even reveal His Son to the babes for them to believe in Him to be saved. Matthew 11:25-27

So you belittling the believing in Him as if it is nothing, you are not acknowledging the manifested work of the Father for how we are believing in Him to be saved.

Your mind keeps going back to James words but you are misapplying his words and failing to see what kind of faith James was talking about in how the church was applying faith in God to provide TO the poor to get out of helping the poor.

But God can perform a miracle even in the 11th hour and recognize the grace of God for how we have been saved thru faith in Jesus Christ WITHOUT works as our believing in Him is not a work we can claim as our own.
 
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God does NOT regenerate people until they believe and obey Him.

Paul explains that we were not given the Holy Spirit by doing the purification works of the law, but because we believe and obey Jesus.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

God does NOT save unbelievers.
a person does not naturally seek God nor understand Rom 3:11 so he cant believe. How can you believe in the True God when you dont seek Him, nor understand Him nor know Him. So once a person is regenerated unto life, he will believe.
 
Member
Paul was quoting Old Testament scripture about a certain time.

He wasn't talking about no one ever seeks God!

Read this scripture, it destroys your false beliefs.


1 Chronicles 28:9 "And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every desire and every thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you; but if you forsake him, he will reject you forever.

And there are a lot more scriptures to prove you are in falseness.
I know what Paul was quoting, and it applies to his time and now, man by nature doesnt seek the true God, has no desire for the true God, read it for yourself Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
 
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Seems kind of backwards there. Salvation before they seek Him? It is the Father that draws them unto the Son to believe in His Son to be saved. That drawing is the Father leading them to seek Him. John 6:44
That scriptures says they are drawn to Jesus because they were already taught by God before Jesus came. There were Jews who recognized what Jesus was saying as the words of God.
God draws everyone and wants everyone to seek Him. You misunderstand that scripture.
 
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I know what Paul was quoting, and it applies to his time and now, man by nature doesnt seek the true God, has no desire for the true God, read it for yourself Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Read from where Paul is quoting. He is just showing the Gentiles how Jews were sinners too.
 
Member
You can't have the Holy Spirit until you obey.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”
You cant obey unless you have the Spirit , obeying is by the Spirit 1 Pet 1:22

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

No Spirit, No obeying. Man by nature doesnt even seek God, let alone obey Him Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
 
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a person does not naturally seek God nor understand Rom 3:11 so he cant believe.
You keep using scripture where Paul speaks about when Jews sinned, as if no one ever did obey God or can.

How can you believe in the True God when you dont seek Him, nor understand Him nor know Him. So once a person is regenerated unto life, he will believe.
You will have to repent of believing your false teachers.
 
Member
Nowhere does the Bible say what you say.
God saves believers, and the sinners He saves are repentant sinners.
Of course Jesus saves unbelievers, He saves sinners ! 1 Tim 1:13-15
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

You sound ridiculous, Christ doesnt save unbelievers !
 
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You cant obey unless you have the Spirit , obeying is by the Spirit 1 Pet 1:22
You fell for some strange teaching. People can obey their parents, their teacher, their bosses, the rules of the road, they can follow the rules of their government, and follow Allah, and Buddha, etc, etc....BUT THEY CAN'T follow God?!!!
22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

No Spirit, No obeying. Man by nature doesnt even seek God, let alone obey Him Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
You can repent for following falseness and see what happens to you.
 
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Of course Jesus saves unbelievers, He saves sinners ! 1 Tim 1:13-15
13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

You sound ridiculous, Christ doesnt save unbelievers !
Give one scripture that says God saves unbelievers.
 
Member
It depends on what you mean by rewards. But in the original sense of the word, no. They will recompensed for the evil they have done.
And with such being done their reward is Just Punishment. Picture a lake, there are rough portions and quiet, deep and shallow. Everyone in the Lake of Fire but all are not punished the same. Inversely, everyone in Heaven will not e equally blessed, not if YHWH is a Just Elohim and He is Just.
 
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That scriptures says they are drawn to Jesus because they were already taught by God before Jesus came. There were Jews who recognized what Jesus was saying as the words of God.
God draws everyone and wants everyone to seek Him. You misunderstand that scripture.
Feel free to explain why the Father hides the truth from the wise and the prudent but is okay to reveal His Son, the Truth, unto babes?

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Explain this then for why not every one that claim to seek Him, understands the parables.

Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


This is why you should not knock believing in Jesus Christ as if that is not enough when our believing in Him is a manifested work of God. We could not believe in Jesus Christ without God the Father enabling us to.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Note the will of the Father on how Jesus saves us in verse 40 below, So the Father gives us to the Son so that by His manifested work in us by our believing in Him is how we are saved..

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Once again read how God is pleased to save those that believe.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God....
...21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

May God cause the increase.
 
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Feel free to explain why the Father hides the truth from the wise and the prudent but is okay to reveal His Son, the Truth, unto babes?

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Because you have to be humble to be saved.
Explain this then for why not every one that claim to seek Him, understands the parables.

Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
That was to the cut off and hardened Jews before Jesus was crucified. He came first for the Jews who already belonged to God by faith.

All can come to be saved by Jesus now, since the time he was crucified.
This is why you should not knock believing in Jesus Christ as if that is not enough when our believing in Him is a manifested work of God. We could not believe in Jesus Christ without God the Father enabling us to.
I explained that scripture to you many times.
At least deal with what I told you instead of repeating yourself and saying the same false stuff repeatedly.

That enabling teaching you believe is from teachers who didn't understand the scriptures.

People were not enabled, they were hardened.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Note the will of the Father on how Jesus saves us in verse 40 below, So the Father gives us to the Son so that by His manifested work in us by our believing in Him is how we are saved..

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jesus is talking about the Jews who were NOT cut off and hardened.

No such thing as enabling.

Again, if people had to be enabled, then there would be no reason to harden! LOL
Once again read how God is pleased to save those that believe.

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God....
...21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

May God cause the increase.
Paul was glad he didn't baptize so that no one would say they were baptized unto him.

We have to believe that we have to obey Jesus.

What do you think, we just have to believe, believe what? We just have to believe that we have to believe? lol
 
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Because you have to be humble to be saved.

That was to the cut off and hardened Jews before Jesus was crucified. He came first for the Jews who already belonged to God by faith.

All can come to be saved by Jesus now, since the time he was crucified.

I explained that scripture to you many times.
At least deal with what I told you instead of repeating yourself and saying the same false stuff repeatedly.

That enabling teaching you believe is from teachers who didn't understand the scriptures.

People were not enabled, they were hardened.


Jesus is talking about the Jews who were NOT cut off and hardened.

No such thing as enabling.

Again, if people had to be enabled, then there would be no reason to harden! LOL

Paul was glad he didn't baptize so that no one would say they were baptized unto him.

We have to believe that we have to obey Jesus.

What do you think, we just have to believe, believe what? We just have to believe that we have to believe? lol
Again, you do not understand the length the Father does in drawing ( dragging ) us unto the Son to believe in Him for why our believing in Him is a manifested work of God.

If any one doubts their salvation because of their actions or lack thereof, they can know that since they believe in Him, thanks to the Father, they are saved and they can confess their sins and ask Jesus for help to not commit those sins again as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ as we look to Him, trusting Him to help us to lay aside every weight ( provision for the flesh ) & sin in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.
 
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Again, you do not understand the length the Father does in drawing ( dragging )
That is another false teaching. Nowhere does the scriptures say God drags us.

The powerful message of Jesus dying on the cross for us draws us.


John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Here are more reasons why we are drawn.


See Titus 1:2; and, 3:7. We have HOPE of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time.

We long for an immortal physical body, we desire, we hope for the redemption of our bodies. For in this HOPE we turn to God and are saved. See Romans 8:23-25.

We DRAW near to God because of a better HOPE given us than that of the law; we hope in the perfection we receive through Jesus. See Hebrews 7:18, 19.

Hebrews 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.


Give up your false bozo teachings of God dragging us or enabling us.

us unto the Son to believe in Him for why our believing in Him is a manifested work of God.

If any one doubts their salvation because of their actions or lack thereof, they can know that since they believe in Him, thanks to the Father, they are saved and they can confess their sins and ask Jesus for help to not commit those sins again as we can only live this reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ as we look to Him, trusting Him to help us to lay aside every weight ( provision for the flesh ) & sin in walking in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.
We have to confess and repent of our sins before we are saved.
 
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That is another false teaching. Nowhere does the scriptures say God drags us.

The powerful message of Jesus dying on the cross for us draws us.


John 15:13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself."

Here are more reasons why we are drawn.


See Titus 1:2; and, 3:7. We have HOPE of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time.

We long for an immortal physical body, we desire, we hope for the redemption of our bodies. For in this HOPE we turn to God and are saved. See Romans 8:23-25.

We DRAW near to God because of a better HOPE given us than that of the law; we hope in the perfection we receive through Jesus. See Hebrews 7:18, 19.

Hebrews 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.


Give up your false bozo teachings of God dragging us or enabling us.


We have to confess and repent of our sins before we are saved.
@Brightfame52 applies Romans 3:11 as the truth that no one seeks after God.

So that is why it is on the Father to draw us as in dragging us unto the Son to reveal His Son to us Matthew 11:25-27 so we can believe in Him and be saved.

Until you can get around the truth of Romans 3:11 for why the Father has to draw us unto the Son John 6:44 in seeking the Son & reveal His Son to us so we can believe in Him to be saved, thus He is giving us unto the Son John 6:37 where His will is that whosoever believes in Him will be saved John 6:40, you are stuck with your misapplication of His words regarding repent for what that repent means in order to receive the remission of sins & to be born again of the Spirit.
 
Member
@Brightfame52 applies Romans 3:11 as the truth that no one seeks after God.

So that is why it is on the Father to draw us as in dragging us unto the Son to reveal His Son to us Matthew 11:25-27 so we can believe in Him and be saved.

Until you can get around the truth of Romans 3:11 for why the Father has to draw us unto the Son John 6:44 in seeking the Son & reveal His Son to us so we can believe in Him to be saved, thus He is giving us unto the Son John 6:37 where His will is that whosoever believes in Him will be saved John 6:40, you are stuck with your misapplication of His words regarding repent for what that repent means in order to receive the remission of sins & to be born again of the Spirit.
No man by nature seeks the True God or understands Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Until you bow to this Truth, there is nothing I can show you from scripture that will instruct you !
 
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