Repentance ( Must a person forsake his sins before he can come to Christ? )

[Brightfame52]

Right. No man by nature seeks God for why those that do seek God, it is because the Father is drawing them unto the Son to reveal His Son to them so they can believe in Him and be saved.

Their seeking God and their believing in God is a manifested work of the Father in drawing them unto the Son to be given to the Son to be saved by Him.

Until the Father draws them unto the Son, they cannot seek Him to find Him to believe in Him to be saved.

When God draws a person, He has given you a new birth. If you haven't been born again, no man seeks after God.

 

[GodB4Us]

Of course.

Only those who want to hide their sins.

John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."

There are people who come to the light.

Please note the emboldened and enlarged colored portion of the verse which you are trying to apply to your point of view that you are overlooking here. So these people that come to the light are doing so as a manifested work of the Father.

I can hardly stand to read what false teachers say as if God says it.
Give the scripture that says God drags us to Him.

I gave you the scriptures and explained but you can't see them?

We are drawn to the Greatest Love, the son of God dying for us.

I already explained it to you before many times!

I just disagree with your application of the scripture as not rightly dividing the word of truth.

The people in the dessert might not have died of their snake bites because they looked at the bronze snake, BUT THEY STILL DIDN'T GET TO THE PROMISED LAND BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T OBEY.

One has nothing to do with the other in regards to salvation because discipleship i.e. running that race is separate from salvation since those that are saved but do not run that race will be left behind as sons of disobedience but still sons..

Indeed, the salvation from snake bites can be used as a metaphor for believing in Jesus Christ for salvation whereas running that race by the obedience of believing in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him in living a life of repentance is how saved believers can be partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection; hence that metaphor of the promised land.

Hebrews 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

Numbers 14:22 not one of those who saw my glory and the signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness but who disobeyed me and tested me ten times--

This is why Jesus is warning saved believers to be ready or else and the only way they can run that race is as saved believer by having believed the preaching of the cross for when they were saved, otherwise, they'd by denying Him as to how they were saved by Him as if it was of themselves when they could do nothing without the Father drawing them unto the Son in seeking Him to believe in Him to be saved..

 

[GodB4Us]

When God draws a person, He has given you a new birth. If you haven't been born again, no man seeks after God.

I believe the new birth comes about by the Father drawing them unto the Son. I am equating their seeking as evidence of the Father drawing them unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved because no one can seek Him without His enabling..

 

[God's Truth]

Please note the emboldened and enlarged colored portion of the verse which you are trying to apply to your point of view that you are overlooking here. So these people that come to the light are doing so as a manifested work of the Father.

They were in the dark and came to the light because they didn't love sin more. Don't add to the scriptures.

I just disagree with your application of the scripture as not rightly dividing the word of truth.

You are the one who doesn't rightly divide the scriptures. You do it with your false teachers glasses on and with a pocket knife. lol

One has nothing to do with the other in regards to salvation because discipleship i.e. running that race is separate from salvation since those that are saved but do not run that race will be left behind as sons of disobedience but still sons..

No such thing as separating salvation from discipleship.
We aren't blessed period, unless we DO WHAT JESUS SAYS.
We aren't a disciple unless we do what Jesus says.
We aren't a family member unless we do what Jesus says.
We aren't a friend if we don't do what Jesus says.

BUT YOU with your teaching claim we have Jesus moving in with us and our not be a friend and family member and disciple!!!!!!

Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Judeans who had believed him, "If you continue to follow my teaching, you are really my disciples

Indeed, the salvation from snake bites can be used as a metaphor for believing in Jesus Christ for salvation whereas running that race by the obedience of believing in Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd & Friend to help us to follow Him in living a life of repentance is how saved believers can be partakers of the firstfruits of the resurrection; hence that metaphor of the promised land.

When a person is saved, they are put in the promised land!

God says they DID NOT get to the promised land because they did NOT OBEY.

We have to believe and obey to get saved.

This is why Jesus is warning saved believers to be ready or else and the only way they can run that race is as saved believer by having believed the preaching of the cross for when they were saved, otherwise, they'd by denying Him as to how they were saved by Him as if it was of themselves when they could do nothing without the Father drawing them unto the Son in seeking Him to believe in Him to be saved..

We have to believe and obey to get saved and to stay saved.

 

[GodB4Us]

We have to believe and obey to get saved and to stay saved.

@Jesus_is_LORD @Christ4Ever @StewardoftheMystery @complete @Lavenderfields @PloughBoy @MedicBravo

So salvation is of works in according to your belief, right, God's Truth? It is one thing to claim you are not saying that and yet how does one obey to stay saved unless it is of your works?

 

[God's Truth]

@Jesus_is_LORD @Christ4Ever @StewardoftheMystery @complete @Lavenderfields @PloughBoy @MedicBravo

So salvation is of works in according to your belief, right, God's Truth? It is one thing to claim you are not saying that and yet how does one obey to stay saved unless it is of your works?

We are saved by obeying Jesus. We stay saved by obeying Jesus. They are God's words that we are to do, His will for us, His works for us. They are light, easy and not burdensome. It is His food for us. They are life and Spirit. It is how we love God and who He loves personally.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

So salvation is of works in according to your belief, right, God's Truth?

That is why I stopped responding to GT because he is preaching against the gospel message of being saved by God’s grace through faith.

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,”

 

[Brightfame52]

I believe the new birth comes about by the Father drawing them unto the Son. I am equating their seeking as evidence of the Father drawing them unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved because no one can seek Him without His enabling..

The New Birth is the drawing.

 

[God's Truth]

That is why I stopped responding to GT because he is preaching against the gospel message of being saved by God’s grace through faith.

Didn't you say you didn't teach that? lol

2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,”

Are you kidding?

In 2 Timothy, Paul is giving a farewell letter because he knows he is going to be killed.

He is going to be killed because he spoke AGAINST THE WORKS OF THE LAW, which CIRCUMCISION is the sign.


Galatians 5:11 Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished.

We are saved by doing the works Jesus tells us to do to get saved.


2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


Not according to our works is about the works of the law the people used to have to do to belong to God.

These are the works of the law:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.

 

[GodB4Us]

The New Birth is the drawing.

I cannot see how you can apply that when the drawing is how any man can come "unto" the Son to believe in Him to be saved, thus being drawn unto the Son for the new birth when they believe in Him to be saved.

Since it is the Father's will that Jesus saves those that believe John 6:40, then I can see the Father drawing as the cause for us to be seeking in how finding Him thus believing in Him is how we are saved.

I am crediting our seeking Him as a result of the Father drawing us, and although the Father drawing is responsible for the born again of the Spirit when we believe in Him, drawing is the cause of the new birth but not the actual new birth.

We prophesy in part and know in part and so when we see Him face to face, we shall know everything for sure and give praise & thanksgivings to the Father in Jesus's name..

 

[GodB4Us]

We are saved by obeying Jesus. We stay saved by obeying Jesus. They are God's words that we are to do, His will for us, His works for us. They are light, easy and not burdensome. It is His food for us. They are life and Spirit. It is how we love God and who He loves personally.

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

How does the faith in Jesus Christ that Paul spoken of here applies to your belief?

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.....
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

How can you place the emphasis on man to obey to keep himself saved without him being exalted by what he has done to be in His Presence?

How can what you preach not appeal to the religious men of the world as something they can and want to identify with to glory in men in what they have accomplished for salvation as well as keeping themselves saved?.

 

[God's Truth]

Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

Because they were NOT CIRCUMCISED.

22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

How does the faith in Jesus Christ that Paul spoken of here applies to your belief?

It is about not of the works of the law and circumcision was the sign of the works of the law.


Colossians 2:11 In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ,

Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,

1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.....
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

It is faith verses circumcision.
It is NOT faith verses repentance or obedience!

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

How can you place the emphasis on man to obey to keep himself saved without him being exalted by what he has done to be in His Presence?

His words are Spirit and life. If you don't obey, you will be condemned.

 

[Brightfame52]

I cannot see how you can apply that when the drawing is how any man can come "unto" the Son to believe in Him to be saved, thus being drawn unto the Son for the new birth when they believe in Him to be saved.

Since it is the Father's will that Jesus saves those that believe John 6:40, then I can see the Father drawing as the cause for us to be seeking in how finding Him thus believing in Him is how we are saved.

I am crediting our seeking Him as a result of the Father drawing us, and although the Father drawing is responsible for the born again of the Spirit when we believe in Him, drawing is the cause of the new birth but not the actual new birth.

We prophesy in part and know in part and so when we see Him face to face, we shall know everything for sure and give praise & thanksgivings to the Father in Jesus's name..

Sorry the drawing is the new birth. Once God begins the drawing, He has given one new life, new heart, and causes them to come to Christ. They are drawn inwardly by the cords of Eternal Love Jer 31:3

3 The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

When we are given a new heart, that includes a new inward man, so its a new birth, then we have a spiritual attraction to the things of God, without such new birth and drawing, man is dead in sin and doesnt seek God.

 

[*Lavender]

Ephesians 2.
Please look at v5

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

V5
There are a lot of religions that talk about repentance. Repentance however without the Holy Spirit is dead works, and does not include Christ. In the two way process.
V5 Shows how a sinner becomes alive through Jesus. Through grace.
Otherwise, there is a form of godliness that denys the power. 2 Timothy 3:5

 

[God's Truth]

Not according to our works is about the works of the law the people used to have to do to belong to God.

These are the works of the law that belonged to the PEOPLE:

The Burnt Offering; The Grain Offering; The Fellowship Offering; The Sin Offering; The Guilt Offering; Dietary Laws; Purification After Childbirth; Cleansing From Infectious Skin Diseases; Cleansing From Mildew; Discharges Causing Uncleanness; The Day of Atonement; Rules for Priests; The Sabbath; Firstfruits; The Passover and Unleavened Bread; Feast of Weeks; Feast of Trumpets; Feast of Tabernacles; Oil and Bread Set Before The LORD; the Sabbath Year; The Year of Jubilee; Circumcision.

We are now to let Jesus do the purifying now.

We still have to repent of our sins, we just don't have to get circumcised and sacrifice animals...

 

[*Lavender]

It's not denied that every sinner needs to humble themselves and to repent. The repentance needs the help and power of the Holy Spirit, that includes Christ.

Through the redeeming blood of Jesus, the person is brought near to God.

There is power in the blood of Jesus.

 

[God's Truth]

Ephesians 2.
Please look at v5

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

See scripture 11. It is about not of the people's works of the law, which circumcision is the sign.

V5
There are a lot of religions that talk about repentance. Repentance however without the Holy Spirit is dead works, and does not include Christ. In the two way process.

That is about the GENTILES who were dead in their sins because they didn't get circumcised and go to the temple to sacrifice animals for their blood to atone for their souls. Without the shedding of blood their was no forgiveness for sins. The Gentiles were without God and hope because they didn't come into the covenant where circumcision was the sign.

V5 Shows how a sinner becomes alive through Jesus. Through grace.

We have to repent of our sins before we are saved.

Otherwise, there is a form of godliness that denys the power. 2 Timothy 3:5

It isn't shameful EVER to obey Jesus. His words are Spirit and life. Jesus gives the Holy Spirit to those who obey him.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

 

[God's Truth]

It's not denied that every sinner needs to humble themselves and to repent. The repentance needs the help and power of the Holy Spirit, that includes Christ.

Through the redeeming blood of Jesus, the person is brought into the presence of God.

There is power in the blood of Jesus.

No one receives the Holy Spirit unless they obey by repenting of their sins and believing.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

There will be no sudden disappearance as every one will see Him when He comes as the Bridegroom and those few abiding in Him will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air as He will judge His House first leaving many saved believers behind for not being ready

Then why does every dispensationalist pastor teach that? Some of them are very knowledgeable and honorable men who dare to speak up on a lot of social issues which no other pastors bother to touch. And they used this ancient custome as an analogy to back it up, that groom would come by surprise and snatch his bride in the middle of the night, then they kind of eloped for a honeymoon, and everybody else was wondering where they'd gone? And who knows if there was really such a custome. Doesn't sound like what Jesus described in the wedding feast and the ten virgin parables.

 

[complete]

@Jesus_is_LORD @Christ4Ever @StewardoftheMystery @complete @Lavenderfields @PloughBoy @MedicBravo

So salvation is of works in according to your belief, right, God's Truth? It is one thing to claim you are not saying that and yet how does one obey to stay saved unless it is of your works?

Hello @GodB4Us,

I hear the sound of the trumpet, I hear your rallying cry.

God's Truth is, inadvertently I hope, doing despite to the gospel of the grace of God. However to argue with him only gives him increasing opportunity to do so, and no amount of counter argument will convince Him, only the Lord can do that. I pray, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that he will see the error he is perpetuating, and that he will turn and walk that way no longer. May we also not be found guilty of so doing, for there but for the grace of God go each one of us.

* What have we got that we have not received?

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris