brakelite
Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2011
- Messages
- 873
Will, jasonloss, and others, I appreciate your interest and understand your reticence or reluctance in believing those things which we have shared on this thread. I too was once a Sunday keeper and I well understand that tradition dies hard, especially one that has been around for so long and held on to by so many. The thing is though guys is that majorities do not always get things right, in fact, if you have a look at history, truth has always been the preserve of the minority. Its a narrow road to glory, and the way isn't easy.
The rest we find in Christ is wonderful. I have known Jesus for over 35 years. I haven't always been faithful, but He has. The assurance of His grace and goodness toward us is such a wonderful peace of mind, found nowhere else.The wonderful truth that we are accepted in the beloved regardless of our past, is grace indeed. Resting in Him, not needing to stress or worry over our own lack of strength, our proclevity for evil, or our tendancies toward sin, and simply trusting in Him to complete the wonderful work He has begun, brings such peace of mind no other religion or philosphy can imitate, or even understand.
That said, the rest I speak of and which you refer to , while certainly recommended by Jesus and offered several times as a promise to those who would come to Him in faith, is nowhere mentioned as being a replacement or substitute for the weekly Sabbath rest of the fourth commandments. That substitution my friends, is a treaching of man, and is found nowhere in the Bible. I would go so far as to suggest friends that in order for anyone to come up with such a concept, has a predisposition or preconceived theory in mind and uses that concept as a defense. This is , I believe, what Bible students call eisogesis, or somethinmg like that.
Another defense similar to the above is the statements often made by many that the early church, even the apostolic church, kept Sunday and not the Sabbath. This for me reveals a great ignorance of scripture, and brings doubts to my mind if these people have actually ever read the book of Acts, or are they simply parroting arguments proffered by others without personal study. Allow me please to remind everyone of what the apostolic church actually practiced.
Acts 13:13 Now when Paul and his company loosed from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem.
14 ¶ But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
THis first incident took place approximately 14 years after the resurrection. Paul, after being invited to speak, delivered a powerful gospel message that focused on the grace of Christ. After the concluding remarks, 42 ¶ And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Paul, up to this point, had reserved his teaching ministry to the Jews. What was Paul's reaction to this request from Gentiles. Many would have you believe that the Sabbath was never for the Gentile converts, so here was the perfect opportunity for Paul to teach the concept of Sunday to the Gentiles. But what happened? 44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God......48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
The next incident takes place around 20 years after the resurrection. Acts 15 records the Jerusalem council meeting. Because so many Gentiles were now joining the church, the subject of circumcision arose and caused a great deal of dissension. After some debate, and due to the overwhelming evidence that the Gentiles were indeed being accepted of God through Jesus Christ our Saviour, James, (possibly the first discussion group moderator in the Christian world) gave his determination: Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
This council was dealing with a weighty issue that threatened to divide the church, setting a barrier between Jew and Gentile that would forever dislocate God's people. Circumcision was held by the Jews to be absolutely sacrosanct. It was extrememly important to them, and the more zealous were demanding that all Gentile converts be circumcised as they were. The truth was that this issue deville dthe church for years, in towns and synagogues all over Israel, Asia, Macedonia and Greece, as Paul's letters testify. But if circumcision was a weighty issue, and threatened to tear apart the church,what of the Sabbath? The fourth commandment no less, the Sabbath had been central to Judaism for over a thousand years, and still is. Surely , if the apostolic church was no longer observing the Sabbath and was now keeping Sunday as many (in fact the majority of Christendom) contend, then would not this council meeting have discussed this/ Where were the Jewish zealots demanding a return to Sabbath keeping? Where were the protests and charges of wilful sin against God's holy day by those who ostensibly were now desecrating it? The truth is friends is that the Sabbath wasn't an issue because all Christians were observing it, both Jew and Gentile. There simply was no debate because there was nothing to debate.
2 years later, Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
The result of this was Lydia's conversion and her house being made the base for Paul's work in Phillipi, a town in which he met much opposition, from both secular but in particular the Jews. Yet even there, Paul's opponents not once chanllenged him for his 'Sunday' keeping. Strange don't you think?
In that same year, Acts 17:1 when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Still practicing the observation of the Sabbath, as his custom was, just as it was Jesus custom, some 22 years after the resurrection, without any mention, hint or otherwise of Paul preaching to Jews on the Sabbath and Gentiles on Sunday.
Finally, a year later still, 23 years after the resurrection, Paul Acts 18:4 ... reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks...11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.
Every Sabbath fro 18 months, Paul's practice was to assemple for worship and instruction with both Jew and Gentile. To multiply 18 months by four Sabbaths produces at least 72 consecutive Sabbaths which in Paul followed his Master's example.
Yes, I know the scripture says that in Jerusalem the disciples met every day in the temple. But let me assure you, not one of them would have opened his shop, taken up his plow, harvested his grain, sold his goods, bought his groceries, done his book-keeping, gone fishing, mended his nets, or mowed his front lawns on the Sabbath. How do I know this? Becuase friends there is not one record of any disciple being charged with breaking the Sabbath commandment, or being accused by any self righteous Jewish zealot of profaning God's holy day, and the reason is that not one disciple ever did. They kept the Sabbath. Gentiles also. Faithfully, and constantly.
The rest we find in Christ is wonderful. I have known Jesus for over 35 years. I haven't always been faithful, but He has. The assurance of His grace and goodness toward us is such a wonderful peace of mind, found nowhere else.The wonderful truth that we are accepted in the beloved regardless of our past, is grace indeed. Resting in Him, not needing to stress or worry over our own lack of strength, our proclevity for evil, or our tendancies toward sin, and simply trusting in Him to complete the wonderful work He has begun, brings such peace of mind no other religion or philosphy can imitate, or even understand.
That said, the rest I speak of and which you refer to , while certainly recommended by Jesus and offered several times as a promise to those who would come to Him in faith, is nowhere mentioned as being a replacement or substitute for the weekly Sabbath rest of the fourth commandments. That substitution my friends, is a treaching of man, and is found nowhere in the Bible. I would go so far as to suggest friends that in order for anyone to come up with such a concept, has a predisposition or preconceived theory in mind and uses that concept as a defense. This is , I believe, what Bible students call eisogesis, or somethinmg like that.
Another defense similar to the above is the statements often made by many that the early church, even the apostolic church, kept Sunday and not the Sabbath. This for me reveals a great ignorance of scripture, and brings doubts to my mind if these people have actually ever read the book of Acts, or are they simply parroting arguments proffered by others without personal study. Allow me please to remind everyone of what the apostolic church actually practiced.
Acts 13:13 Now when Paul and his company loosed from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem.
14 ¶ But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
THis first incident took place approximately 14 years after the resurrection. Paul, after being invited to speak, delivered a powerful gospel message that focused on the grace of Christ. After the concluding remarks, 42 ¶ And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
Paul, up to this point, had reserved his teaching ministry to the Jews. What was Paul's reaction to this request from Gentiles. Many would have you believe that the Sabbath was never for the Gentile converts, so here was the perfect opportunity for Paul to teach the concept of Sunday to the Gentiles. But what happened? 44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God......48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
The next incident takes place around 20 years after the resurrection. Acts 15 records the Jerusalem council meeting. Because so many Gentiles were now joining the church, the subject of circumcision arose and caused a great deal of dissension. After some debate, and due to the overwhelming evidence that the Gentiles were indeed being accepted of God through Jesus Christ our Saviour, James, (possibly the first discussion group moderator in the Christian world) gave his determination: Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
This council was dealing with a weighty issue that threatened to divide the church, setting a barrier between Jew and Gentile that would forever dislocate God's people. Circumcision was held by the Jews to be absolutely sacrosanct. It was extrememly important to them, and the more zealous were demanding that all Gentile converts be circumcised as they were. The truth was that this issue deville dthe church for years, in towns and synagogues all over Israel, Asia, Macedonia and Greece, as Paul's letters testify. But if circumcision was a weighty issue, and threatened to tear apart the church,what of the Sabbath? The fourth commandment no less, the Sabbath had been central to Judaism for over a thousand years, and still is. Surely , if the apostolic church was no longer observing the Sabbath and was now keeping Sunday as many (in fact the majority of Christendom) contend, then would not this council meeting have discussed this/ Where were the Jewish zealots demanding a return to Sabbath keeping? Where were the protests and charges of wilful sin against God's holy day by those who ostensibly were now desecrating it? The truth is friends is that the Sabbath wasn't an issue because all Christians were observing it, both Jew and Gentile. There simply was no debate because there was nothing to debate.
2 years later, Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
The result of this was Lydia's conversion and her house being made the base for Paul's work in Phillipi, a town in which he met much opposition, from both secular but in particular the Jews. Yet even there, Paul's opponents not once chanllenged him for his 'Sunday' keeping. Strange don't you think?
In that same year, Acts 17:1 when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Still practicing the observation of the Sabbath, as his custom was, just as it was Jesus custom, some 22 years after the resurrection, without any mention, hint or otherwise of Paul preaching to Jews on the Sabbath and Gentiles on Sunday.
Finally, a year later still, 23 years after the resurrection, Paul Acts 18:4 ... reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks...11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.
Every Sabbath fro 18 months, Paul's practice was to assemple for worship and instruction with both Jew and Gentile. To multiply 18 months by four Sabbaths produces at least 72 consecutive Sabbaths which in Paul followed his Master's example.
Yes, I know the scripture says that in Jerusalem the disciples met every day in the temple. But let me assure you, not one of them would have opened his shop, taken up his plow, harvested his grain, sold his goods, bought his groceries, done his book-keeping, gone fishing, mended his nets, or mowed his front lawns on the Sabbath. How do I know this? Becuase friends there is not one record of any disciple being charged with breaking the Sabbath commandment, or being accused by any self righteous Jewish zealot of profaning God's holy day, and the reason is that not one disciple ever did. They kept the Sabbath. Gentiles also. Faithfully, and constantly.
