The Denominations Speak: The Sabbath

[David777]

Hello brakelite.

Need your opinion if you be so kind.

"The keeping of the counterfeit Sabbath is the reception of the mark."
(Ellen G. White, Great Controversy, Vol. 4, page 281.)

"The Sunday Sabbath is purely a child of the Papacy. It is the mark of the beast."
(Advent Review, Vol. I, No. 2, August, 1850.)

Do you believe the mark of the beast is sunday worship?

 

[jasonsloss]

David, you are asking BGSDA to take the part of God with your challenge. None of us are here to condemn any who believe differently. To your own Master you stand or fall. When we teach of Sabbath, we are merely sharing with you a truth that if accepted and followed, as we have discovered, we are convinced will lead you to a closer relationship with Jesus. As Jesus said, the Sabbath was made for you. To reject it is to reject a gift that was given before the fall, along with marriage. Both institiutions, marriage and the Sabbath, are undefiled by sin. Neither can be shadows of a cure or remedy for sin, because both were established before it. Both therefore are precious, holy, sanctified, and blessed of God.

I have a very similar testimony to bg. I do believe I might add that portion of my life to my testimony here on the forum..... Done.

I then will ask you is not holding to the Sabboth a salvational issue???

 

[brakelite]

Hi David. You often speak of context...so here is the context of your quote above:

From The Great Controversy p448

In the Catholic Catechism of Christian Religion, in answer to a question as to the day to be observed in obedience to the fourth commandment, this statement is made: "During the old law, Saturday was the day sanctified; but the church, instructed by Jesus Christ, and directed by the Spirit of God, has substituted Sunday for Saturday; so now we sanctify the first, not the seventh day. Sunday means, and now is, the day of the Lord." As the sign of the authority of the Catholic Church, papist writers cite "the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of; . . . because by keeping Sunday, they acknowledge the church's power to ordain feasts, and to command them under sin."--Henry Tuberville, An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine, page 58. What then is the change of the Sabbath, but the sign, or mark, of the authority of the Roman Church--"the mark of the beast"?

The Roman Church has not relinquished her claim to supremacy; and when the world and the Protestant churches accept a sabbath of her creating, while they reject the Bible Sabbath, they virtually admit this assumption. They may claim the authority of tradition and of the Fathers for the change; but in so doing they ignore the very principle which separates them from Rome--that "the Bible, and the Bible only, is the religion of Protestants." The papist can see that they are deceiving themselves, willingly closing their eyes to the facts in the case. As the movement for Sunday enforcement gains favor, (remember David this was written in the late 1800s, so White is speaking prophetically here of a worldwide movemwnt by the Vatican for the enforcement of Sunday rest among nations. This has begun in earnest, the Pope travelling constantly around the world, particularly in Europe, urging governments to honour and exalt and enforce Sunday laws, much like were in existence in the US in White's day. 35 states in the US have Sunday 'blue laws' still on their books. In Virginia, the death sentence is allowed for a third infraction of 'desecrating' Sunday. These will be repeated soon on a global scale, likely as the reult of public demand inm response to disaster or crime).
he rejoices, feeling assured that it will eventually bring the whole Protestant world under the banner of Rome.

Romanists declare that "the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] Church."--Mgr. Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, page 213. The enforcement of Sundaykeeping on the part of Protestant churches is an enforcement of the worship of the papacy--of the beast. Those who, understanding the claims of the fourth
[h=5]Page 449[/h] commandment, choose to observe the false instead of the true Sabbath are thereby paying homage to that power by which alone it is commanded. But in the very act of enforcing a religious duty by secular power, the churches would themselves form an image to the beast; hence the enforcement of Sundaykeeping in the United States would be an enforcement of the worship of the beast and his image. But Christians of past generations observed the Sunday, supposing that in so doing they were keeping the Bible Sabbath; and there are now true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion, who honestly believe that Sunday is the Sabbath of divine appointment. God accepts their sincerity of purpose and their integrity before Him. But when Sunday observance shall be enforced by law, and the world shall be enlightened concerning the obligation of the true Sabbath, then whoever shall transgress the command of God, to obey a precept which has no higher authority than that of Rome, will thereby honor popery above God. He is paying homage to Rome and to the power which enforces the institution ordained by Rome. He is worshipping the beast and his image. As men then reject the institution which God has declared to be the sign of His authority, and honor in its stead that which Rome has chosen as the token of her supremacy, they will thereby accept the sign of allegiance to Rome--"the mark of the beast." And it is not until the issue is thus plainly set before the people, and they are brought to choose between the commandments of God and the commandments of men, that those who continue in transgression will receive "the mark of the beast."

 

[brakelite]

Let me ask you, is deliberately disobeying any of the commandments of God a salvational issue? (See James 4:17)

 

[David777]

Hello brakelite.

"The Sunday Sabbath is purely a child of the Papacy. It is the mark of the beast."
(Advent Review, Vol. I, No. 2, August, 1850.)

If the "mark" is sunday sabbath then how do you receive
the mark on the right hand?

Revelation 13
16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor,
and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand
or on their forehead,
17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one
who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

Also, by your view the whole world must be honoring
a sunday sabbath?? That is impossible Eric, seriously
you do not rely believe this nonsense.

The mark is the name or the number of the beast.

Buy and sell only with the mark.

Your interpretation does not fit the scripture at all.

 

[brakelite]

I would like to explain why I, as an SDA,I keep the Sabbath.
Many, it would appear from these forums, would suggest that it is because it is a commandment. But no, that would not be true. I do not murder anyone because it is a commandment not to. I don't even get angry with anyone (righteous indignation excluded),not even those who disagree with me here

Why do I not get angry with you David or Jiggyfly? Because I love you. Not even because God tells me to love you. But because God has filled me with His Holy Spirit and quite frankly, I can't help but to love you. I can't get angry, I wouldnt dream of killing, not because it's against the law of God, but because of love.
The same goes for adultery. I have absolutely no thoughts toward anyone other than my wife. For 2 reasons. I love my neighbor too much to covet that which is his, and more so, I love my wife.
This does not take away the obligation of keeping those commandments. They are still, after all, commandments. And we are obligated to keep them. By both the spirit, and the letter.
But we don't keep them because of the letter, we keep them because of the love of God shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.
The same goes for all the commandments. Honoring parents, love. Not stealing, love. Not lieing, love. Not worshipping idols, love. Nat taking the Lord's name in vain, love. Keeping holy the Sabbath day, yes, love.
I do not keep the Sabbath commandment because it is a commandment. I do not keep the day holy by resting from secular labor and past-times on that day because God says so. I honor the day because I have this immense passionate love for my Savior

because He loved me so much He died for me. I would do anything for Him. Because I love Him. I would do anything for Him because He loves me. Now that includes keeping holy that day He has given me that I may spend more time with Him. In fact, I wish every day could be a Sabbath day, but alas, one must make a living.

Now, that said, it must be added that the Sabbath commandment is still a commandment. It is not a suggestion or simply a good idea. It is as much an obligation as is the 6th commandment.
But God judges us by our motives and according to the light we have on any given point and at whatever stage of maturity and life we are at.There are many to whom the truth of the Sabbath has simply not been revealed. To some they have seen and read of it, but do not recognise it. It is not for bgsda nor me to judge whether one has or has not been made aware by God of certain truths. There are many factors which enter into this issue. Our willingness to obey. Our willingness to learn. Our openess to the Spirit. Our desire to grow. etc etc. These we cannot judge.
If I catch someone stealing my car I may call him a thief, but I would never call him a sinner. Likewise, I may point out the obligations of honoring that day which God calls holy, but I will never call anyone a sinner if they do not.
Accusing others of being sinners was a pastime of the Pharisees. They even accused Jesus of being one.

But not even Jesus accused anyone directly of being a sinner. The closest He came to that was to tell people not to sin.
Condemning others by calling them a sinner or unsaved for breaking any particular commandment is the sole prerogative of God. And quite frankly, I would be uncomfortable with being challenged by some in such a way as to attempt to trap us into doing so.

 

[jasonsloss]

Let me ask you, is deliberately disobeying any of the commandments of God a salvational issue? (See James 4:17)

we should be obedient to God in this life as a Christian, are we always obedient? no...

my question was if a saved person chooses not to hold to a certain day greater than another does this make it a salvational issue?

 

[SpiritLedEd]

I'd be curious to know how SDAs handle it when their employer requires them to work at least some Saturday hours. Surely not all of them can have jobs with every Saturday off.

SLE

 

[jasonsloss]

the thing is the sabboth was given to who??? Jews not Gentiles

for us as christians Christ is our sabboth we find our rest in Him...

now I agree with Paul statement... Romans 14:5One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind...

if you choose to hold one day greater than the rest God Bless you, as for me I hold everyday as the same and live everyday in Christ...

 

[brakelite]

The Sabbath was instituted at creation. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man. 444 ανθρωπος anthropos anth’-ro-pos

from 435 and ops (the countenance, from 3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being; TDNT-1:364,59; n m

AV-man 552, not tr 4, misc 3; 559

1) a human being, whether male or female
1a) generically, to include all human individuals
1b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order
1b1) of animals and plants
1b2) of from God and Christ
1b3) of the angels
1c) with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led into a mistake or prompted to sin
1d) with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity
1e) with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul
1f) with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt and the truly Christian man, conformed to the nature of God
1g) with reference to sex, a male
2) indefinitely, someone, a man, one
3) in the plural, people
4) joined with other words, merchantman


So to claim the Sabbath was solely for Jews is unbiblical. And if the Sabbath is made for man, how is it that so many claim it is a burden, and shun it at all costs as if it is a curse? When God makes something for someone, it is for their benefit, their wellbeing, to be a blessing. God doesn't make things for people to be trodden underfoot and discarded or ignored...it was included in the commandments because God knew man needed the Sabbath, so He made it compulsory because He cares for you, and for your good health.

 

[Rev T.S.Perkins]

The sabbith is for whomsoever shall find rest in Christ ,....i know ministers that take mon, as the day of rest due to working on sat,and sun, again its not for us to be legalistic about it ..after all Jesus was nondenom, and the only reason they called John the baptist is because He dunked people under water ...the bilble clearly tells us to not allow denom. thinking to seperatre us but to speak as one ..He who first loved us..Christ .....Rev

 

[brakelite]

we should be obedient to God in this life as a Christian, are we always obedient? no...

my question was if a saved person chooses not to hold to a certain day greater than another does this make it a salvational issue?

Is intentional habitual sin (as opposed to a one off infraction) a salvational issue? Or could it lead to a salvational issue if warnings from the Holy Spirit are ignored and God's word and authority defied?

2 Pter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

 

[jasonsloss]

The Sabbath was instituted at creation. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man. 444 ανθρωπος anthropos anth’-ro-pos

from 435 and ops (the countenance, from 3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being; TDNT-1:364,59; n m

AV-man 552, not tr 4, misc 3; 559

1) a human being, whether male or female
1a) generically, to include all human individuals
1b) to distinguish man from beings of a different order
1b1) of animals and plants
1b2) of from God and Christ
1b3) of the angels
1c) with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led into a mistake or prompted to sin
1d) with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity
1e) with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul
1f) with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt and the truly Christian man, conformed to the nature of God
1g) with reference to sex, a male
2) indefinitely, someone, a man, one
3) in the plural, people
4) joined with other words, merchantman


So to claim the Sabbath was solely for Jews is unbiblical. And if the Sabbath is made for man, how is it that so many claim it is a burden, and shun it at all costs as if it is a curse? When God makes something for someone, it is for their benefit, their wellbeing, to be a blessing. God doesn't make things for people to be trodden underfoot and discarded or ignored...it was included in the commandments because God knew man needed the Sabbath, so He made it compulsory because He cares for you, and for your good health.

see the sabboth was not put into practice until the Jews were ordered to follow it and when Jesus said the Sabboth was made for man he was talking to the Jews which is biblical... the Sabboth was part of Jewish law and if you broke it you were punished so to claim one law use must up hold all the laws and then you are no longer under grace... if you want to hold to the Sabboth that is a personal choice but to tell believers that they are not obeying God because they are not holding to the Sabboth is wrong...

 

[brakelite]

For all "New Covenant" Christians

To all of you who claim new covenant status, and use that as your reason to reject the "law" because it was only given to Jews, particularly the Sabbath, please read the following carefully.

Jeremiah 31: Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul informs us that this is fulfilled in the Christian church, which concept I think no-one here would disagree with. But please note, and ask yourself this question:
Who is the covenant made with? To whom is the promise given, that God will write His laws upon hearts and minds?

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
The covenant is made with Israel !Yet you claim to be under that covenant at the same time rejecting those very laws that God promises to write on hearts, because they only belong to Israel!!!!

 

[bgsda]

David 777 to answer your question on you earlier post about will someone make it to heaven if they dont keep the true Sabbath. Well lets see will an idolater, thief, adulterer, coveoutous person, liar, killer, disobedient to parents, etc make it into heaven you tell me?
Ly
Those that are not aware of the Sabbath are not held accountable, those that reject it is another thing. Have you not read the very first post on this thread. Whos mark is the Sunday worship(not written by sda, written by Catholic Church) and many more where that came from. Comes down to this who do you obey, mans tradition and worship or God. Doesnt get clearly than that. Jesus states it better in Mark7:7-9 you can just switch out "washing of pots" to SUNDAY KEEPING?!
See Abel and Cain came before God and they both worshipped Him. Both professed to love Him, even brought daily sacrafices. God only accepted the TRUEhfff worshipper. This lead Cain to hate Abel, same thing today leads many to hate. Im not a judge, i can only say the truth in love. David I pray that your eyes can be open to this fact.

Its like the flip coin thing that i used many times with family and friends. And im sure many others do and did. When some atheist tells you i dont believe in God orr who is God that i should obey Him. I usually end it with the flip coin thing, ill say ok ill keep following God and live a happier, stress free, hopefull mmmm
that this world is not the end. Then i tell them ok lets you keep being disobedient, angry, God less

 

[bgsda]

Then you find out your wrong, what then?. Usually thell say, What if your wrong? I say so then i lived a happy life. You see David777 this flip side coin thing goes with this Sabbath issue. If im right im good, if im wrong the Sabbath is still good. Now if your wrong and willfully sin Heb10:26 then What?

Please consider the consequences from one brother to another. God bless

 

[jasonsloss]

To all of you who claim new covenant status, and use that as your reason to reject the "law" because it was only given to Jews, particularly the Sabbath, please read the following carefully.


Jeremiah 31: Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Paul informs us that this is fulfilled in the Christian church, which concept I think no-one here would disagree with. But please note, and ask yourself this question:
Who is the covenant made with? To whom is the promise given, that God will write His laws upon hearts and minds?

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
The covenant is made with Israel !Yet you claim to be under that covenant at the same time rejecting those very laws that God promises to write on hearts, because they only belong to Israel!!!!

Okay where does Paul call the church Israel?
Where does Paul say this has been fulfilled?

You are using an end time reference

And no where does the church hold to the Sabbath in the NT

 

[will]

Speaking about rest, I am reminded of what the Lord said in Matthew 11:28-30

28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

I really like the concept of the Lord as our Sabbath. That just fits with the rest of genius simplicity of God's plan in the Scriptures.

You know, I learn a lot from you guys who can quote so many Scriptures in your posts.
I really do.

But sometimes, we need to revel in the simplicity of God's master plan.
After all, only God can achieve the impossible using the simple.

 

[jasonsloss]

Is intentional habitual sin (as opposed to a one off infraction) a salvational issue? Or could it lead to a salvational issue if warnings from the Holy Spirit are ignored and God's word and authority defied?

2 Pter 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

How is not holding to the Sabbath a sin?

 

[bgsda]

Will i see where u are coming from about liking one thing better because it just soinds good or feels good, but you have to remember that does not go well with the Bibles teachings and God. Theyre are principles and God is a God of standards.

By the way Jesus was there in the beggining in Gen2:1-3 when the Sabbath was first spoken of. He was the one who gave or reminded His people AGAIN of the Sabbath (hence REMEMBER) and Jesus kept the SABBATH when He was walking the earthLuke 4:16 and many other verses. Dont forget either that He will definetly be there when we spend all eterniity in Heaven when we celebrate the Sabbath forever Isaiah 66:22,23. God bless my brother.