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Speaking In Tongues

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No one is speaking in tongues today.
They did by the Apostles not now
Greetings,

I would like to challenge that point with you, if you don't mind @Iconoclast ?

I asked a couple of questions earlier and with everything else going on, i have not got back to them. One being (from memory ) do you think that god is still wanting to provoke Israel to jealousy, today? I think He is and am very interested in your thoughts on that. [and other Member's - might start a thread if anyone is interested? ]

Could it be that there are still people of tongues unreached with the Gospel? Perhaps it is not until all nations declare the praises of god in their tongue that they will be done away with? What do you think? {please reply in English, not Hebrew}

For example, the Mbojo in Indonesia, the Maguindanao in Philippines, the Dongxiang in China, the Jogi in India ?

We ARE told that God would and did provoke Israel, who He loved, to jealousy. I find it very hard to accept the idea that He does not still love Israel and has a purpose and plan to all He does, and if we all fit into His plan, perhaps we should take the back seat a bit more and stop following the crowd, because they might be wrong!

For I would not, brothers, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.
Romans 11:25

I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Romans 11:11

which is understandable especially if we see that it was meant to be the other way around, first, where the nations were to be jealous of the fact of the God of Israel. [although Israel often/usually took on the gentile gods etc rather than being a light for the gentiles to desire and 'join', and become no longer strangers but fellow people of the LORD.

If anything, do you think we, the Church, have 'failed' to provoke Israel to jealousy? How often do you hear anyone praising the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and declaring our love for Him and from Him through His Son - each in his own tongue?


Thank you for your consideration,


Bless you ....><>
 
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Holy Spirit is for you today:
Luke 11: 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Jesus told us to keep praying and ask! We have to (listen) and then believe and ask!
Jews were asking Peter what is this "speaking in tongues" and some thought they were drunk:
2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
But Peter said "this what you hear and see" so that means that there was an evidence!
well some people say "is not for today, but Peter said to them:
2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Is for all! It was not just for those days but for every Christian in the future till today!
Jesus himself at Mark 16 said that this evidence will fallow Church too "in my name they will speak other tongues' (of course we dont follow the signs! but the signs fallow us! i say that because yes the evidence of receiving the Spirit is ,speak in tongues, but that does not means that everyone who speaks in tongues has the real Holy Spirit!)
Some say that tongues was to help them preach in languages that Apostles did not knew
well... that is not truth!
1) Because Peter did not evangelised anyone while speaking in tongues.
2) No Apostle ever spoke to tongues for preaching to Gentiles
3) Paul said that " 1 Cor.14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? So tongues are not for preaching or teaching!
Speaking in tongues is for building our spirit:
14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.; 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
Here we observe some things:
-Paul compare speaking in tongues with praying in the Spirit!
-Paul knows that the other person will not understand nothing! So is not pottible that the gift of tongues were to preach the Gospel! :smile:
Tongues as initial evidence:
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
8: 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
(what was Simon saw and understood they received the Spirit?):
10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. ; 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, (that is how they understood that the Holy Spirit felt on them! they were listening them to speak in tongues!!!)
19: 5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Samaritans too spoke in tongues! (we will speak for them latter)

Now lovely child of God ,does the Holy Spirit dwells in us imidiatly when we believe?
NO! 3 examples:
-1st)14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
(Samaria received Christ, believed the Gospel, saw many miracles from the Evangelists hands and "they had great joy" :smile: (sure the Spirit did the miracles, and also we know that only one who is touched by the Spirit can believe and repent of their sins) but they did not had the Holy Spirit!
-2nd) 17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
and is baptized by Ananias
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

ok that is one of the many verses that one believed but not had the Spirit , the Apostles were like that and in general only those who listen the whole ghospel and obey ,actually receive the Spirit.Is like Christ, you have toi listen and then believe .
-3rd)1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. !!!!!
First observation :
1) Paul asked them IF they got the Holy Spirit when (or after) they believed! why to ask them if it was top be received while they first believed?
The people who listened Peter`s preaching at chapter 2 neither received immediately , why did not received the Spirit when they believed ?
2) Ephesians beleived through the preaching of Apolos! but wlao were not baptised in the Spirit (just like Samaritans). Paul writes some years later to them;
Ephesians 1: 13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Do you see? :smile: that verse was used falsely by thoise who dont believe at the Baptism ,but it speaks for that experience they had when we read in Acts how they came to believe and receive the Spirit!
3) Like we saw before the first thing that happened when they received the Spirit was to :speak in tongues"

Now lovely i let yoy research and take action (they only requirement is "feel the need" , "feel poor" and then "believe and ask your Father with faith and trust Him He will give you ,because this is His will!"
αfter all Jesus died for cleaning us ,so that we will able to receive His Holy Spirit!:
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Amen! :smile:
Greetings,

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

1Corinthians 12:30


Bless you ....><>
 
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pet

Greetings,

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Corinthians 12:30


Bless you ....><>
sorry, i spoke about the gift (present) of the Holy Spirit itself ,not of the gifts (charismas)of the Holy Spirit

The Spirit gives one or more gifts to every member but not all to one! while all must receive the Spirit itself.

speaking in tongues as the spirit give utterance is not the same as the gift to speak many tongues.When you are filled with the Spirit you will speak in tongues, but this does not means you have the gift of tongues.
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

"forbit not to speak in tongues" it does not said to covet ,like prophesy but just "forbit not" :smile: because all we have the prayer language! but it must be carefully:
1)Pray in tongues to identify yourself
2)pray aloud in tongues to give a message from God,if there is an interpreter or if we have the gift of interpretation .otherwise we have to speak not loud .
3) There is the gift of other tongues, that is to speak many many languages. but not everyone has this! like Paul said " 18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
 
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After being baptised with the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Is it for speaking in tongues?
As other have said, its for operating in the gifts of the Spirt. Speaking in tongues being one.

And can you speak in tongues at will?
I am not too sure about that. Are you always right with God?

To operate in any gift of the Spirit, you need to be ''in tune'' with the Spirit. Not that Christians can ever not be Christians. But Christians can and do still sin. Any sin can put a pause and damper on operating in a spiritual gift.

I'd really like to know the right operation of speaking in tongues
As others have said ''when there is an interpreter in a meeting'' you can speak aloud at church. Otherwise you would need to keep it between you and God.

When I pray in tongues, I feel a rush of thoughts run through my mind. I would battle to put that into a prayer for interpretation. But I cannot pray in tongues all the time. I would need to fast or abstain from all sin, even venial for a considerable time before I can. If not, I start thinking it is just me speaking gibberish. Which is insulting to God. We must not mock speaking in tongues in anyway. It is very scriptural.
 
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We ARE told that God would and did provoke Israel, who He loved, to jealousy. I find it very hard to accept the idea that He does not still love Israel and has a purpose and plan to all He does, and if we all fit into His plan, perhaps we should take the back seat a bit more and stop following the crowd, because they might be wrong!
And sadly you forget how the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by Titus in 70 AD and Jews began to be dispersed and they finally left the land in the second century! There was no more need for sign miracles, there were Gentile believers living around them! Before Christ, Jews would have NEVER expected the heathen nations praise the Lord as the Gentiles starting doing it after the Apostles started visiting the Gentile peoples. A real life proof of this was that Jews persecuted Christians, no matter if they were Jews or Gentiles! Just look at what the book of Acts tells us about that! For unbelieving Jews a heathen now a believer praising the Lord was a blasphemy! They couldn't stand it.

Stop conveniently forgetting that now there are plenty of churches around the world spreading the Gospel!

Besides those that claim they speak in tongues ALWAYS put aside what the Apostle Paul told the Corinthian believers in 1 Corinthians 14! They always "do it" they way they "feel it" and they even tell people not to think too much about speaking in tongues, ignoring Paul's regulations on purpose. We should not look for experiences that "seem" to be spiritual, we need the Gospel, the Bible for they're the confirmed Will of God! The Scriptures were approved by the Holy Spirit first because He inspired them!

And how do you explain the fact that people claim that they are "inspired" by spirits instead of the sole Holy Spirit? If they do listen to some spirits, then the Holy Spirit is not among them for He is Holy and would not let them hear other spirits' will. Actually it's not weird to find so called churches that wrongly teach people that the Trinity consists of the Father, the Son and the (holy) spirits... And yes, they also promote prophecies and speaking in tongues.

1 Timothy 2:13-15
13
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Eve was deceived by the snake, meaning women tend to listen to strange winds of doctrine more often than men. In that case, we men should prevent them from showing up in church to speak in tongues in front of everybody, the male audience included. They just want to show off and males just let them do something that's wrong! Paul clearly stated women should not rule over men for that was disrespectful of authority. God teaches us we should respect authority! But those in the megachurches and other places do disrespect many of the New Testament teachings!

When I pray in tongues, I feel a rush of thoughts run through my mind. I would battle to put that into a prayer for interpretation. But I cannot pray in tongues all the time. I would need to fast or abstain from all sin, even venial for a considerable time before I can. If not, I start thinking it is just me speaking gibberish. Which is insulting to God. We must not mock speaking in tongues in anyway. It is very scriptural.
It's because it's you speaking gibberish. Really, that's exactly what it is no matter how much you fast or abstain from anything. Believe me, no, believe in what Paul told us, we should rely on words picked with our intellect than on those that we can't be sure if anybody can interpret. So if you speak English, pray in English, the same is valid for any given person's native tongue. Speaking in tongues won't make you holier than speaking in any natural tongue. Plus all those tongues uttered in Apostolic times were earthly! God had created tongues on earth during the Babel rebellion! Then don't underestimate God's power nor His creation, the natural tongues! Besides praising the Lord in your native tongue IS A SIGN for Jews already!

And no, there's no reason why the Holy Spirit will grant you the sign miracle of speaking in tongues, don't forget He picks what gifts He will grant you, not the other way around!
 
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Greetings @SleepyEdwin ,

And sadly you forget how the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by Titus in 70 AD and Jews began to be dispersed and they finally left the land in the second century!
You are right, I had 'forgotten' about the destruction of Jerusalem. But please, you don't need to be sad about it for it is being a Member here that allows us to interact and bring up things that we think might help the topic at hand. I suppose if I wrote absolutely everything about this topic without leaving out the slightest thing, it would perhaps amount to the longest post in internet history! [not too sure many would read it all through though!]
As far a the Destruction of Jerusalem goes, the Romans only finished it off and some of that was for hygiene reasons, from what i understand of the history records of the time. The inhabitant had basically trapped themselves in the walls, unable to escape even if they wanted to and were in a state of self inflicted famine and fighting amongst themselves with false christs and rebels really messing it up for everyone else.
Very very few survived and only those who listened to the Lord saying to flee when they saw certain signs got away before the main trouble set in [like concrete]
Since you seem interested in the early history of the Church, have you ever studied about the Gospel being taken into the East? Quite an amazing history that most are unaware of and if we were to 're-do' our traditions, including our mindsets and generally accepted interpretation of Scripture, we would potentially have a radically different Church today [and maybe even threads like this one would never be raised??] If you haven't yet looked into this part of the history of the Church [it is a large part, too] i do recommend it.
---------------------------------
Stop conveniently forgetting that now there are plenty of churches around the world spreading the Gospel!
Sorry, i didn't realise that i had. Do you think that now all people or more precisely, all tongues have the Gospel today? Forgive me if i was mistaken but i thought there were still quite a few who don't. And meanwhile, back in the West.....
the Gospel message is fading away and what is left is often marred by so much worldliness that it has lost it's savour.
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Eve was deceived by the snake, meaning women tend to listen to strange winds of doctrine more often than men.
I am at a loss to see how you connect the dots here. Would you mind showing me some Scripture (Old Testament) that explains this so i can better understand? From the little i know, the men of israel were fairly good [bad, really] at listening to all manner of gibberish and deception and the women certainly did not have the monopoly of that!
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They just want to show off
I think in all honesty, men are fairly keen to show off, too. Perhaps even it was men who set the stage for women; giving an example for the women to follow?
--------------------------------------
Paul clearly stated women should not rule over men for that was disrespectful of authority.
I was sure that the teaching was and is that women were to submit to men AND that men had to submit to God, and the whole ruling over business you speak of was little to do with it. From what i understand, it is the Lord Who rules, end of story. Let us not isolate the women folk and forget the men folk, Maybe soon we will have to try to work out who submits to who when we have transgender someone taking the stand? Probably best we all fall into line under the Lord now so at least we get that right before anything worse comes upon us?
=================
anyway, i might be derailing this thread so probably best we discuss this in more detail, if you are sincerely interested, somewhere else?
----------------------
I won't answer for our fellow Member KingJ but i might remark that
Besides praising the Lord in your native tongue IS A SIGN for Jews already!
is something you might care to elaborate on as some may not understand if this is Scripturally correct?


Bless you ....><>
 
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Greetings all,

before i became a Christian, in fact before any of you became Christian, what was i? [and, what were you? ]

An unbeliever.
Did i praise God?

Could i?
No.

Did i understand the things of the Spirit? Could i ?
No

BUT God has sent the Spirit of His Son into my heart whereby i cry ABBA Father.

So, now my language has changed. Same as yours. The language of the unbeliever does not and can not speak praise to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and most certainly does not and can not offer praise and glory to the Son of God.
The Bible tells us that they could not enter in because of their unbelief.
Also, because of their unbelief Jesus could not do many miracles.

Believing is the turning point and it also is the entry to a new and living way (New and Living Way)
What do we know about the things of the Spirit? We are told that they are not discernible to the carnal man. The wisdom of God is foolishness to them that are perishing.
So, how can i now praise the Lord? By my flesh? Or, by the Spirit?

Another way to say all that might be...
praying in the Spirit, praising the Lord and telling of His goodness is now possible for me only because of the fact that now i am a believer. Now i am a believer, my language has changed. Like yours did, too.
Did i receive the tongue of the Hebrew? No. God gave me praise (which i did not have before and in my worldly language was not able to nor had any idea how to) in my own language.


Bless you ....><>
 
Loyal
So, now my language has changed. Same as yours. The language of the unbeliever does not and can not speak praise to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and most certainly does not and can not offer praise and glory to the Son of God.
The Bible tells us that they could not enter in because of their unbelief.
Still, while they may not speak those words, they could understand them.

1 Cor 14:2; For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

1 Cor 14:23; Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

1 Cor 14:6; But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?
1 Cor 14:7; Yet even lifeless things, either flute or harp, in producing a sound, if they do not produce a distinction in the tones, how will it be known what is played on the flute or on the harp?
1 Cor 14:8; For if the bugle produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle?
1 Cor 14:9; So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.

Paul is making it clear here that the sounds being made, make no sense to the people hearing them.

1 Cor 13:1; If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.

He says whether speaks in the tongues of men, or the tongues of angels... he is just a noisy cymbal.

1 Cor 14:10; There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of languages in the world, and no kind is without meaning.
1 Cor 14:1; If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me.

If someone is speaking a language someone else does not understand, they are just barbarian, their words are useless.

1 Cor 14:18; I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all;
1 Cor 14:19; however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.

...unless...

1 Cor 14:13; Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.
 
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Greetings B-A-C,

I am sorry but i do not understand this.... [in referrence to what you quoted]

Still, while they may not speak those words, they could understand them.
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He says whether speaks in the tongues of men, or the tongues of angels... he is just a noisy cymbal.
'without charity' is the key part, brother.
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If someone is speaking a language someone else does not understand, they are just barbarian, their words are useless.
yes, it sort of goes without saying but the Apostle did say he was writing to them as babes.

And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ. I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Corinthians 3:1-2
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1 Cor 14:18; I thank God, I speak in tongues more than you all;
1 Cor 14:19; however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue.
18, 19 and then 20, 21, etc

Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear Me, saith the Lord.



Bless you and thank you for engaging with me ....><>
 
Least amongst the Best
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Greetings all,

Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Ephesians 5:19


Buzz Goertzen - Let's Make A Joyful Noise



Bless you ....><>
 

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