Speaking In Tongues

[Downunder]

Acts 10:42 And he charged us to preach to the people, and to testify that this is he ordained of God as Judge of living and dead.
10:43 To him all the prophets witness, that through his name every one that believeth unto him receiveth remission of sins.
10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all that heard the word.
10:45 And they of the circumcision that believed were amazed, who came with Peter, because that on the nations also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit.
10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
10:47 Can anyone forbid the water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?
10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then asked they him to tarry certain days.

 

[JerryfromMass]

Acts 10:42 And he charged us to preach to the people, and to testify that this is he ordained of God as Judge of living and dead.
10:43 To him all the prophets witness, that through his name every one that believeth unto him receiveth remission of sins.
10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all that heard the word.
10:45 And they of the circumcision that believed were amazed, who came with Peter, because that on the nations also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit.
10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
10:47 Can anyone forbid the water, that these should not be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit as well as we?
10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then asked they him to tarry certain days.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11, 27-30: "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills." ...

... "Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?"

Only false teachers, false preachers, those beguiled by them, cults and those within cults (cult followers), hold that you must speak in tongues as proof of having the indwelling Holy Spirit. Jesus will say to them: "I never knew you. Depart from me."

 

[Reba1]

You actually have to be a Spirit-filled Pentecostal believer to know what the scriptures are about.

If that is your standing, Then i know what the scriptures are about. yet you have had other opinions then mine.

 

[Born Again 2004]

1 Corinthians 12:4-11, 27-30: "Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills." ...

... "Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all possess gifts of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?"

Only false teachers, false preachers, those beguiled by them, cults and those within cults (cult followers), hold that you must speak in tongues as proof of having the indwelling Holy Spirit. Jesus will say to them: "I never knew you. Depart from me."

@JerryfromMass, great response!

 

[B-A-C]

You actually have to be a Spirit-filled Pentecostal believer to know what the scriptures are about.

It's a little unfortunate that terms like "Pentecostal" are tied to denominations. At least here in the US. It's almost like Pentecostal and Charismatic are dirty words to other denominations.

When a Pentecostal believer says "pentecostal" here in the US, all they really mean is "baptized in the Holy Spirit". But typically it's taken as a member of a Charismatic denomination.

I partially agree with this statement. I would word it slightly differently.

A person baptized in the Holy Spirit has more understanding of the scriptures, than a person who isn't.
I don't think it's an "all or none" type thing. Even un-saved people can understand certain parts of the Bible.
On the other hand, there are certain things God won't reveal to atheists and non-believers.

John 14:26; "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

Discussions like this inevitably lead to "do you have to be baptized in the Holy Spirit to be saved". My answer is no.
Do you have to speak in tongues in order to be baptized in the Holy Spirit? My answer is no.

But I would say you should seek these things if you are a believer.

If God isn't the author of confusion, then why is there so much disagreement about what the Bible says or how certain verses are interpreted?
The obvious answer is... not everyone who thinks they are filled with the Holy Spirit... actually is. ...and if they are, they aren't being led by the Spirit.

 

[Born Again 2004]

It's a little unfortunate that terms like "Pentecostal" are tied to denominations. At least here in the US. It's almost like Pentecostal and Charismatic are dirty words to other denominations.

When a Pentecostal believer says "pentecostal" here in the US, all they really mean is "baptized in the Holy Spirit". But typically it's taken as a member of a Charismatic denomination.

I partially agree with this statement. I would word it slightly differently.

A person baptized in the Holy Spirit has more understanding of the scriptures, than a person who isn't.
I don't think it's an "all or none" type thing. Even un-saved people can understand certain parts of the Bible.
On the other hand, there are certain things God won't reveal to atheists and non-believers.

John 14:26; "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

Discussions like this inevitably lead to "do you have to be baptized in the Holy Spirit to be saved". My answer is no.
Do you have to speak in tongues in order to be baptized in the Holy Spirit? My answer is no.

But I would say you should seek these things if you are a believer.

If God isn't the author of confusion, then why is there so much disagreement about what the Bible says or how certain verses are interpreted?
The obvious answer is... not everyone who thinks they are filled with the Holy Spirit... actually is. ...and if they are, they aren't being led by the Spirit.

That'll include not all Pentecostals I'll bet!

 

[JerryfromMass]

If God isn't the author of confusion, then why is there so much disagreement about what the Bible says or how certain verses are interpreted?
The obvious answer is... not everyone who thinks they are filled with the Holy Spirit... actually is. ...and if they are, they aren't being led by the Spirit.

Not so obvious when the debates over works vs faith alone has been going on for nearly 2,000 years.

Not so obvious when so many denominations believe they, and only they, are the one true church.

Not so obvious when so many so-called "spirit-filled believers" are whoremongers, adulterers, homosexuals, drunks, drug addicts, gossipers, backbiters, prosperity preachers, etc.

No so obvious when so many so-called "spirit-filled believers" preach that they, and only they, have the truth over that other denomination over yonder and all the others, because "we all speak in tongues and they don't" or "we worship on the Sabbath and you don't, so you must be of antichrist" or "the King James version is the only true Word of God and we only sing hymns written in old English because, well, KJV onlyism." Etc, etc, etc.

How about that man or woman who looks like a poor waif but actually has a job and a home, who doesn't claim a denomination except to say he or she follows the risen Jesus and obeys HIM? This is the man or woman who provides out of his or her substance to help his or her brothers and sisters and strangers alike, who remains out-of-sight/out-of-mind, not announcing to her right hand what her left hand does, all for no other reason than the glory of God without anyone else in the world knowing of it. What would you think of him or her? She's not in your denomination, she doesn't speak in tongues, she doesn't worship on Saturday, but he/she worships every day, and she never announces her giving or good deeds to anyone.

Too many so-called "spirit filled believers" would look at the cover of that man or woman, have pity perhaps, but then judge it by how he or she compares to their denomination.

Denominations of every stripe all boast about their good deeds, whether its prison ministry and outreach missions, buying Christmas gifts for children without moms or dads, solicit tithes and offerings from anyone and everyone, or announce any other number of their "good deeds" that they publicly announce so as to be spoken of highly by others in the world. These so-called "spirit-filled" types demand their flocks tithe and offer while living in million dollar homes, and demand that you stay as far away from those people over in that church over there because they don't speak in tongues or they don't wear white shirts and ties to worship service, and they think we're a cult.

God is not the author of confusion. Satan is the great deceiver, and he is hard at work 24/7/365.

 

[Reba1]

AMEN @JerryfromMass

 

[Bob Carabbio]

After being baptised with the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Is it for speaking in tongues?

One "Baptized in the Holy SPirit (to use Assembly of God vernacular) typically will manifest the ability to speak in a "tongue" as the Holy Spirit supplies the words.

But "tongues" is really only the "Tip of the iceberg", as it were. There are any number of OTHER spiritual giftings that can also be manifested as the Holy Spirit enables.

And can you speak in tongues at will?

Yes - in a devotional mode.

HOWEVER - You CAN'T Speak a "Message in tongues" in a meeting, unless you are specifically BURDENED by the Holy Spirit to do so - just like you CAN'T speak a prophesy unless you're specifically burdened by the Holy Spirit to do so, since HE supplies the words for you to speak.

I've spoken in tongues for the last 50 years, BUT NEVER was burdened to speak a message in tongues in a meeting. I have been burdened of Interpret tongues, and to give prophetic utterance now and again.

 

[Butch5]

After being baptised with the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Is it for speaking in tongues?

And can you speak in tongues at will?

That's how I've seen it manifested by some church members and even pastors.

I'd really like to know the right operation of speaking in tongues

I'd be real careful about that. The Biblical use of tongues was for a specific purpose. It was also, a sign to unbelievers, not believers. In the Biblical context tongues were a sign to Israel. Paul said that tongues would cease, I believe it has.

 

[Waggles]

I believe it has.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I and millions of others do pray in tongues.
And not only that but also we operate the voice gifts of the Holy Spirit - tongues followed by interpretation and gifts of prophecy.

 

[Butch5]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I and millions of others do pray in tongues.
And not only that but also we operate the voice gifts of the Holy Spirit - tongues followed by interpretation and gifts of prophecy.

You're not bursting my bubble. I know what the Scriptures say. I don't go by what Christians say. I could watch tv and see many healed who actually aren't. The only mention of signs and wonders I see in the end times are lying signs and wonders.

However, church history would disagree with you. Some of the later Ante-Nicene writers said that there was only a remnant if the gifts still around in their day. One would have to wonder why it is that only certain denominations claim these gifts. Hmmm...

 

[B-A-C]

Paul said that tongues would cease, I believe it has.

In the same verse he said prophecies and knowledge would cease also.
So if the tongues have ceased, your knowledge has ceased.

Have the prophecies ceased as well? Have they been fulfilled? Did Jesus come back? Did the millennial reign start?
Is Satan thrown the lake of fire? Has the New Jerusalem come down yet? Did Jesus give the kingdom back to the Father?

If the prophecies and knowledge are still in effect, so are the tongues.

 

[Waggles]

However, church history would disagree with you.

Would that be the church of Rome and of her children? - along with the Orthodox faiths and the Protestant faiths.

 

[Butch5]

In the same verse he said prophecies and knowledge would cease also.
So if the tongues have ceased, your knowledge has ceased.

Have the prophecies ceased as well? Have they been fulfilled? Did Jesus come back? Did the millennial reign start?
Is Satan thrown the lake of fire? Has the New Jerusalem come down yet? Did Jesus give the kingdom back to the Father?

If the prophecies and knowledge are still in effect, so are the tongues.

Hi B_A_C,

I don't have a lot of time at the moment to get deeply into this. Maybe this evening. When Paul spoke of Prophecy and knowledge ceasing he wasn't speaking about Gods prophecies. He was speaking about prophesies that were being given to Christians to speak. That's what would cease. When the completion came that which was in part would cease. Same with knowledge. He's not talking about an accumulation of facts. He's talking about supernatural knowledge from God. When they spoke in tongues it was supernatural knowledge from God. The speaker may not even have known what he was saying.

But, there's a difference. When Paul said prophecy and knowledge would cease he used a passive verb that's translated ceased. What that means is that something would cause prophecy and knowledge to cease. He tells us, when the completion comes. With tongues Paul uses a middle voice verb. The middle voice indicates that the subject is both receiving and doing the action of the verb, in this case ceasing. What that means is that tongues would cease of it's own accord. The completion wasn't going to be the reason tongues ceased as it would be with prophecy and knowledge. Tongue would ceases of itself. So, we have to understand the purpose of tongues to see when it would cease. Paul told the Corinthians that tongues was a sign to unbelievers, not believers. He also said it is written. Where was it written? If you read Isaiah 28 you'll find that Isaiah said that God would speak to Israel with tongues. The message was the rest that God had promised. It was also a sign of judgment against Israel. In Isaiah 28 and 29 we see that the judgment being spoken of was that of 70 AD. Since tongues was for a sign to unbelieving Israel of the coming judgment, once that judgment came there would no longer be a need for tongues as their purpose had been fulfilled. This is what we see in history.

 

[B-A-C]

It the same word for all three.

καταργέω
katargeō
kat-arg-eh'-o
From G2596 and G691; to be (render) entirely idle (useless), literally or figuratively: - abolish, cease, cumber, deliver, destroy, do away, become (make) of no (none, without) effect, fail, loose, bring (come) to nought, put away (down), vanish away, make void.
Total KJV occurrences: 27

So, we have to understand the purpose of tongues to see when it would cease. Paul told the Corinthians that tongues was a sign to unbelievers, not believers.

There are no more unbelievers?

we see that the judgment being spoken of was that of 70 AD.

Pure speculation and hog-wash, besides "the perfect" didn't come in 70ad either.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Hi B_A_C,

I don't have a lot of time at the moment to get deeply into this. Maybe this evening. When Paul spoke of Prophecy and knowledge ceasing he wasn't speaking about Gods prophecies. He was speaking about prophesies that were being given to Christians to speak. That's what would cease. When the completion came that which was in part would cease. Same with knowledge. He's not talking about an accumulation of facts. He's talking about supernatural knowledge from God. When they spoke in tongues it was supernatural knowledge from God. The speaker may not even have known what he was saying.

But, there's a difference. When Paul said prophecy and knowledge would cease he used a passive verb that's translated ceased. What that means is that something would cause prophecy and knowledge to cease. He tells us, when the completion comes. With tongues Paul uses a middle voice verb. The middle voice indicates that the subject is both receiving and doing the action of the verb, in this case ceasing. What that means is that tongues would cease of it's own accord. The completion wasn't going to be the reason tongues ceased as it would be with prophecy and knowledge. Tongue would ceases of itself. So, we have to understand the purpose of tongues to see when it would cease. Paul told the Corinthians that tongues was a sign to unbelievers, not believers. He also said it is written. Where was it written? If you read Isaiah 28 you'll find that Isaiah said that God would speak to Israel with tongues. The message was the rest that God had promised. It was also a sign of judgment against Israel. In Isaiah 28 and 29 we see that the judgment being spoken of was that of 70 AD. Since tongues was for a sign to unbelieving Israel of the coming judgment, once that judgment came there would no longer be a need for tongues as their purpose had been fulfilled. This is what we see in history.

Whew!
Sure glad you didn't have time to go deeply into this..lol!

 

[PloughBoy]

I know one thing, I do not condemn or judge no one for speaking in "glossolalia" But when i speak, GOD knows the conversation , is going to have to be in "ENGLISH" i do not care what it feels like. I ain't going for it! I do not care how "Holy" it feels or how much "Anointed" be on it. I ain't going for it and he knows it. If it comes I am going for the cess-pot in my mind. I have felt the anointing of GOD pouring on me so Rich i could not move or speak in the "PODIUM" and could not give a message. I could not speak or move I had to take my mind off of GOD. I do not want to feel that anointing in this body no more, while I am on this earth. A Human body cannot take it. If it is not "Anthropomorphic" English, GOD can keep it. I don't want it!

I ain't praying for it, i am not wondering about it, and i am not curious about it. And I am not denying many testimony's about it. But I don't want it.

Religious things scares me, I am scared of "HOODO", "Voodo", Religion scares me. Chants, incense, I am not to crazy about "the LORD Supper" I am not into "kool AID" and black Hoods, "Let us close our eyes and let us pray" I can pray better with my eyes open than close. I am not closing my eyes and then pray. My BIBLE says: "Watch as well as pray" And those words came out of JESUS mouth. I have not read one time, where Jesus spoke in "TONGUES" I do not care what Paul did or Peter. Jesus said: and When You pray: you say; "Our Father" i do not believe it can get no better or Spiritual than that and no "Holier" than that..

Now that is what i believe, To each person his own. I am not in the "more holier than thou contest" to each his own.

My Brother and Sisters in Christ. feel free in what you allow in life and let no man judge you in such matters.of clear conscious.

.

 

[Born Again 2004]

I know one thing, I do not condemn or judge no one for speaking in "glossolalia" But when i speak, GOD knows the conversation , is going to have to be in "ENGLISH" i do not care what it feels like. I ain't going for it! I do not care how "Holy" it feels or how much "Anointed" be on it. I ain't going for it and he knows it. If it comes I am going for the cess-pot in my mind. I have felt the anointing of GOD pouring on me so Rich i could not move or speak in the "PODIUM" and could not give a message. I could not speak or move I had to take my mind off of GOD. I do not want to feel that anointing in this body no more, while I am on this earth. A Human body cannot take it. If it is not "Anthropomorphic" English, GOD can keep it. I don't want it!

I ain't praying for it, i am not wondering about it, and i am not curious about it. And I am not denying many testimony's about it. But I don't want it.

Religious things scares me, I am scared of "HOODO", "Voodo", Religion scares me. Chants, incense, I am not to crazy about "the LORD Supper" I am not into "kool AID" and black Hoods, "Let us close our eyes and let us pray" I can pray better with my eyes open than close. I am not closing my eyes and then pray. My BIBLE says: "Watch as well as pray" And those words came out of JESUS mouth. I have not read one time, where Jesus spoke in "TONGUES" I do not care what Paul did or Peter. Jesus said: and When You pray: you say; "Our Father" i do not believe it can get no better or Spiritual than that and no "Holier" than that..

Now that is what i believe, To each person his own. I am not in the "more holier than thou contest" to each his own.

My Brother and Sisters in Christ. feel free in what you allow in life and let no man judge you in such matters.of clear conscious.

.

My Brother in Christ ?
Excuse me!
Did or did you not tell me that YOU were not a believer?

 

[Reba1]

Born into a Pentecostal family 75 years ago seen/heard much fake stuff over the years. Baptized in the spirit in my 20s.. Seen and heard radicals from all sides .. The Scriptures i have learned to rely on about this topic ....


1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

1Co_14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.