Speaking in Tongues: Its Origin [Ancient and Modern] , Purpose, and Power

[Sue D.]

Actually That was meant for Sleepy-Edwins comment.

 

[Sue D.]

The disciples of Jesus were born again after Jesus had resurrected from the dead, and then appeared before his disciples.

John 20:19 On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”
John 20:20 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord.
John 20:21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.”
John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Notice the disciples were in "fear" of the Jews.

Later Jesus tells his disciples to go to Jerusalem, and wait until they were "endued" with power from on high.

Luke 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is for "power" to be able to do what the Lord calls one to do. The disciples had no fear at all after being baptized in the Holy Spirit for service!

So , you're saying that -- as a result Of being baptized -- they were no longer afraid -- thus being baptized by the Holy Spirit they no longer had fear of the Jews.

Initially you're saying that the disciples of Jesus were 'born again' After Jesus Christ had resurrected. Initially -- Jesus Christ called His 1st disciples to drop what they were doing and to follow Him. Which they did. So, they, in effect, were 'born again' when they decided To follow Jesus Christ. They Could have refused but didn't.

And , of Course they were afraid of the Jews. The Roman soldiers were after Anyone who was a follower of Christ. They thought that Jesus Christ has successfully been 'killed' so His followers Were afraid for their lives. And then they received the Holy Spirit from Jesus breathing on them.. My impression of 'this' is that only Jesus Christ can give power -- as part of the deity. In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit came and went upon people. So - this - is in the transitionary stage -- wouldn't this be the last time that 'this' happened before He ascended back up to heaven and then the Holy Spirit Would come. ?! First time I'd thought about that.

It's kind of like Nowdays when missionaries are sent to the mission field the first time -- the deacons of the church that's commissioning them for the field are gathered around them -- laying hands on the missionaries and pray over them. Blessing them as they start out.

 

[Curtis]

Initially you're saying that the disciples of Jesus were 'born again' After Jesus Christ had resurrected. Initially -

No body could be "born of the Spirit" until Jesus had finished his work of salvation on the cross and after his resurrection from the dead. After Jesus was risen he appeared unto his disciples, and said this.....

John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
John 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Nobody spoke in tongues here, not until they were filled with the Holy Spirit many days later.

 

[Curtis]

So , you're saying that -- as a result Of being baptized -- they were no longer afraid -- thus being baptized by the Holy Spirit they no longer had fear of the Jews.

Absolutely yes!!!

Act 5:40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
Act 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
Act 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

 

[B-A-C]

To me... it seems some people are "dumming down" the Holy Spirit here.

So many misconceptions here about the Holy Spirit. When you get it, how you get it. What it means when you have it.
Every Pentecostal I know believes the in-filling of the Holy Spirit and the baptism of the Holy Spirit are two different events.
Of the 5 times passages in the Bible that speak of people getting baptized in the Holy Spirit, none of them got saved at the instant
they received the baptism. Not one. In some cases it was 10 or 15 years later.

Also, it seems many natural things are thought to be the Holy Spirit.
For example, someone might get healed (eventually) of a disease or broken bone. Even non-believers get healed this way.
The Holy Spirit healing is a supernatural (not natural) thing. Extraordinary. Not normal thing.
Even non-Christians can learn a second or third language.
The tongues of the Holy Spirit is a supernatural thing, not something you learned in school.

There is no requirement that Jews had to be present when people spoke in tongues. But the Bible also talks of
speaking in the tongues of angels. As Curtis said, the Holy Spirit gives you power!! Explosive power! Supernatural power.
The power to heal. The power to prophesy. The power to interpret.

The apostle didn't go to language school, or medical college, or prophecy seminars.... the Holy Spirit gave them this power.
If you haven't seen people get totally healed of cancer. If you haven't seen people in wheel chairs get up and walk...
I have to wonder how you view the Holy Spirit.

 

[Curtis]

as a result Of being baptized -- they were no longer afraid -

The Prophet Samuel told Saul, who was being anointed to be King, what to expect when the Holy Spirit would come upon him.

1Sa 10:6 Then the Spirit of the LORD will rush upon you, and you will prophesy with them and be turned into another man.

The man/woman who is filled with the Holy Spirit is completely changed into a different person. They go from being fearful to being bold as a lion. They are never the same, and they know it and so does everyone else.

 

[Sue D.]

And the Holy Spirit worked differently in the Old Testament than in the New Testament.

In the Old Testament , the Holy Spirit came and went with various people.

Context -- what's being talked about in that passage. 1 Samuel 10:6

And it Is true that when a person accepts Jesus Christ as personal Savior -- the Holy Spirit does come to indwell at That Moment. And they Do become a new spiritual person. There will be fruits of the spirit seen in them. If nothing more, they will have a desire To read their Bible And they will have questions. They Will have an inner peacefulness. And there will be a desire to share this with others. And every personality is different.

I grew up being fairly shy -- that didn't really change -- I'm Still fairly shy.

My interests have changed over the years -- the past few years has been in the area of doctrinal apologetics. -- what a person believes and why.

 

[Iconoclast]

No one speaks in tongues today...nobody. The rhyming noises are just that...rhyming noises made in the flesh

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

No one speaks in tongues today...nobody. The rhyming noises are just that...rhyming noises made in the flesh

I think you might be muddling up what you and others think is 'speaking in tongues' and, speaking in tongues.

The only way tongues will cease is when the Gospel stops being told. Trouble is that most don't realise that. Mind you, the Gospel is not told much anymore because a different one seems to be more 'influential' and different gospels are going out.
So rather than saying that no one speaks in tongues, get telling folks about the Gospel, in fact, better still, start telling folks the Gospel!

Today people are 'squashing' what God has given.... while souls perish for lack of hearing the Gospel.

If you'd like to talk more about this, we could start a new thread, where we could [all interested] look at Scripture and put aside personal experience enough to only discuss the things written. I know that most can do that for most other 'topics' and even tell others directly to not go by personal experiences if they see something in Scripture that says otherwise, even if many have experiences that seem to be from God.

I don't with to argue with you or anyone but i am keen to take a good Biblical, Scriptural look and find out what the Lord has already revealed to us and for us, long before the 'today' you refer to.
And, His Word endureth forever!, [which is so good, because we know we can trust all He has revealed thus far!!]

Praise the Lord


Bless you ....><>

 

[Curtis]

Some say that the infilling of the Holy Spirit ended with the Apostles. This is not true as God used Ananias to have Saul receive back his sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit. Ananias was not an Apostle.

Act 9:10 Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.”
Act 9:11 And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying,
Act 9:12 and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.”

Act 9:17 So Ananias departed and entered the house. And laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus who appeared to you on the road by which you came has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”

 

[Curtis]

Devout Jews from all over the land. Being a devout Jew didn't mean they were believers. They, as a people group, did Not accept Jesus Christ as their promised Messiah. So they were hearing what Peter was sharin

The word for "devout men" refers to men who feared God. The word "nations" always to a jew referred to non-Jewish" people. There were Jews and "proselyte" Jews who were not Jews but wanted to take Judaism as their belief system.

 

[Curtis]

And the Holy Spirit worked differently in the Old Testament than in the New Testament.

In the Old Testament , the Holy Spirit came and went with various people.

Context -- what's being talked about in that passage. 1 Samuel 10:6

And it Is true that when a person accepts Jesus Christ as personal Savior -- the Holy Spirit does come to indwell at That Moment. And they Do become a new spiritual person. There will be fruits of the spirit seen in them. If nothing more, they will have a desire To read their Bible And they will have questions. They Will have an inner peacefulness. And there will be a desire to share this with others. And every personality is different.

I grew up being fairly shy -- that didn't really change -- I'm Still fairly shy.

My interests have changed over the years -- the past few years has been in the area of doctrinal apologetics. -- what a person believes and why.

There only difference is the Holy Spirit today lives permanently in a born again believer. In the Old testament, his indwelling was only temporary.

The "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit is for "bearing fruit". The "infilling" of the Holy Spirit is for power to minister to others.

 

[B-A-C]

Acts 1:8; but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."

dunamis
doo'-nam-is
From G1410; force (literally or figuratively); specifically miraculous power (usually by implication a miracle itself): - ability, abundance, meaning, might (-ily, -y, -y deed), (worker of) miracle (-s), power, strength, violence, mighty (wonderful) work.

This is where we get words like dynamo and dynamite. This is a powerful explosive force.

Stephen is not called an apostle anywhere in the Bible. "Just" another believer.

Acts 6:8; And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.

Mark 16:17; "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

1 Cor 14:39; Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.

The Holy Spirit comes with power.

1 Cor 2:4; and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,

1 Cor 4:20; For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power.

Eph 1:19; and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might

When the Holy Spirit gives you power... it gives you power you didn't have before.

1 Cor 12:8; For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1 Cor 12:9; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1 Cor 12:10; and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.

Without the Holy Spirit you don't have the wisdom from God, you don't have the power to heal people.
You don't have the power to do miracles. You don't have the power to prophesy and interpret.
... and if you DO have the Holy Spirit. Why aren't you doing these things?

 

[Sue D.]

The Holy Spirit gives believers spiritual gifts upon our salvation. There are a variety Of those spiritual gifts.

Proverbs 1 and 2 talks about wisdom from God. 2: 5,6,7 talk about wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

We are Not to ask for any of those spiritual gifts -- they are given to us as the Holy Spirit chooses to give them.

 

[B-A-C]

Acts 1:14; These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers.
Acts 1:15; At this time Peter stood up in the midst of the brethren (a gathering of about one hundred and twenty persons was there together), and said,

There were about 120 people in the upper room. It wasn't just the 11 apostles. Also Mary the mother of Jesus and His brothers were there.

Acts 2:1; When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place.
Acts 2:2; And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting.
Acts 2:3; And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them.
Acts 2:4; And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.
Acts 2:5; Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven.
Acts 2:6; And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language.

The Holy Spirit came on "each one" on them. It doesn't say it was just the Apostles.
The "Jews living in Jerusalem" weren't part of the upper room crowd. "the crowd came together" after the upper room experience.

Now many of these people had been following Jesus for 1, 2 or even 3 years before this happened.
But none of them had ever been baptized in the Holy Spirit before.

Acts 1:4; Gathering them together, He commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, "Which," He said, "you heard of from Me;
Acts 1:5; for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."

This was the "first" day of Pentecost (which happened to be the 50th day of passover)
But there were others. It wasn't a one time thing.

Acts 20:16; For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus so that he would not have to spend time in Asia; for he was hurrying to be in Jerusalem, if possible, on the day of Pentecost.
1 Cor 16:8; But I will remain in Ephesus until Pentecost;

 

[B-A-C]

The Holy Spirit gives believers spiritual gifts upon our salvation. There are a variety Of those spiritual gifts.

No. It never happened this way in the Bible. Not once.

The 120 in the upper room received it (in some cases up to 3 years) after salvation.
Cornelius received it years after Salvation. He was already a devout believer.
The disciples at Ephesus received it at least 14 years after they were saved. (they were baptized by John the Baptist)
Paul received it at least 3 days after the road to Damascus.
The Samaritans (with Simon the sorceror) had already been saved for a period of time as well.

No one... No one in the Bible received the baptism of the Holy Spirit (which is different from the in-dwelling)
at the moment they were saved. It was this way all the way through the new testament. Up until over a decade
after Jesus was resurrected. Why would anyone think it is different now, especially if the Bible doesn't say so?

 

[B-A-C]

We are Not to ask for any of those spiritual gifts -- they are given to us as the Holy Spirit chooses to give them.

True, but we ARE to ask for the Holy Spirit.

Luke 11:13; "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him?"

 

[Sue D.]

There only difference is the Holy Spirit today lives permanently in a born again believer. In the Old testament, his indwelling was only temporary.

The "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit is for "bearing fruit". The "infilling" of the Holy Spirit is for power to minister to others.

Terminology -- The indwelling of the Holy Spirit happens immediately upon a person's accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. And a person Will be exhibiting fruits of the Spirit -- love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness , etc.

And the Holy Spirit Does give 'power' for ministry to those He calls To 'ministry'. As a pastor / teacher is studying material to present to a congregation , he Will feel the leading of the Holy Spirit in what he should be preparing. Years ago , my husband was in the pastorate . He was serious about what he presented and felt that standing behind that pulpit was very much 'holy ground'.

 

[Sue D.]

@ B.A.C. -- it's obvious that we're from different backgrounds. You're possibly Pentecostal and I'm conservative Baptist. Have been all my life. Two different approaches to Scripture. You're staying with Scripture from a transitionary phase Of the New Testament. Scripture moves on From that.

And That is why there are such a variety Of denominations, churches. We are to worship with those of like faith and practice.

Some years ago, I visited a Pentecostal church with my kids because it was closest to our house and my husband worked weekends. I learned after three services that That was not for me. I found a Baptist church with a buss ministry and took my kids to That church .

 

[B-A-C]

And the Holy Spirit Does give 'power' for ministry to those He calls To 'ministry'. As a pastor / teacher is studying material to present to a congregation , he Will feel the leading of the Holy Spirit in what he should be preparing. Years ago , my husband was in the pastorate . He was serious about what he presented and felt that standing behind that pulpit was very much 'holy ground'.

This is also incorrect.
Everyone who has been baptized by the Holy Spirit has a gift. Every one.

1 Cor 12:6; There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
1 Cor 12:7; But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.
1 Cor 12:8; For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit;
1 Cor 12:9; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
1 Cor 12:10; and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
1 Cor 12:11; But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

It doesn't say "part of them" or "some of them", it says "all persons", it says "each one".