• Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 11,000 members today

    Register Log In

Speaking in Tongues: Its Origin [Ancient and Modern] , Purpose, and Power

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:0)

Loyal
What I was saying was the time frame Acts covers was more than 14 years. From the time of the upper room, until Paul meets the disciples at Ephesus was a period of a least 14 years.

You think you can be saved without the Holy Spirit?

John 3:5; Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Rom 8:9; However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

That would be another false doctrine.
 
Active
I have been Trying to share that at the moment of salvation -- the Holy Spirit comes to indwell a person.

The Holy Spirit Also came upon Mary so that she Could conceive as a virgin and give birth to the Christ child. Which made it possible for Jesus Christ To die on the cross as our substitute and rise again. The virgin birth -- Jesus Christ both 100 % deity and 100% human.

And the Holy Spirit Stays within a believer until they are safely with Jesus Christ.


Paul's ministry -- okay --- Jesus Christ's ministry was for 30 years. those 30 yrs. were Most important.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
The baptism of the Holy Spirit takes place at the moment of salvation. The coming to indwell is the Holy Spirit immersing our soul -- baptism is immersion. Water baptism is the public action a person takes when they publically identify with Christ as a born-again believer. The person is immersed in water and brought back up immediately. It demonstrates what has already taken place inwardly.
It is as I see Baptism. An outward expression of an inward change.

Thanks for sharing this.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><
 
Loyal
I have been Trying to share that at the moment of salvation -- the Holy Spirit comes to indwell a person.
I would agree with that statement the way it is worded. However this thread is about speaking in tongues. That doesn't happen at the initial "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit.
That happens at the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit. In fact all of the gifts in 1 Cor 12 are given during the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

As I said earlier, no one in the Bible received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, or spoke in tongues at the moment they believed in Jesus. In most cases, it was years later.
 
Loyal
That doesn't happen at the initial "indwelling" of the Holy Spirit.
That happens at the "baptism" of the Holy Spirit.

I am having a hard time to understand the difference between the indwelling and the baptism of the holly spirit, I would think they are the same thing?? can you explain a little more

thanks
 
Active
They Are the same thing. The indwelling happens as the Holy Spirit is being immersed / baptized Into the person. The person's soul is being 'immersed' by the Holy Spirit. And He, the Holy Spirit Stays in / with/ the person until the person is with Jesus Christ.
 
Active
There Are those who believe in a 'second-blessing' that some people say has happened to Them.

And there is Also the fact of our hearts being 'fuller or lesser' full , so to speak. Someone compared that to a car and it's gas tank. A car Can't run without gas. But it's Not Always full to the brim with gas. As we drive our car, we need to keep putting gas in it to make sure we don't run out. And in our spiritual life, we need to keep our spiritual tank at a good level -- Bible study , prayer, Christian fellowship. When we don't do that on a consistent basis, we begin to feel a bit 'worn down' and realize we need to get back To more consistency.

In the article you included -- it said There that Initially the Holy Spirit did Not come upon everyone right away. It didn't 'come' upon anyone until Jesus Christ had ascended back up to heaven.
Why God chose to have it happen Initially that way -- only He knows.

I know Personally that the Holy Spirit came to indwell me at the very moment I accepted Him. I felt it in my heart. And That is what Scripture teaches.

It's Also true that from time to time as a person is reading / meditating / that something New will be impressed upon them. That happens to me occasionally. We want life to be lived on the mountain top of spirituality. But it doesn't work that way. The 'valley' times of life help us appreciate the mountain times more.

When a person is being 'counseled' about their salvation -- leading a person To Christ -- there Will be some sort of positive 'change' observed in the person, it indicates that something Has taken place inwardly when that person Does actually 'accept Christ' as their Personal Savior. The person, themselves, will 'feel' a difference within themselves.
 
Loyal
I am having a hard time to understand the difference between the indwelling and the baptism of the holly spirit, I would think they are the same thing?? can you explain a little more

thanks
I think this makes sense a lot better now

While the baptism of the Holy Spirit is a once-for-all experience that takes place at conversion, we believe that the filling of the Holy Spirit properly refers to the moment by moment process of yielding oneself to the Spirit’s control. “Do not get drunk on wine…Instead, be filled with the Spirit” (Eph. 5:18 .................Randy Alcorn
 
Active
They Are the same thing. The indwelling happens as the Holy Spirit is being immersed / baptized Into the person. The person's soul is being 'immersed' by the Holy Spirit. And He, the Holy Spirit Stays in / with/ the person until the person is with Jesus Christ.
The Baptism of Water, and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (and with fire) are two separate baptisms.

But they can happen at the same time. I see this more with audults. But it has to do with how fertile and mature your heart is to recieve the Holy Spirit.

Look at Peter. He knew Jesus was the Messiah. And he saw Jesus in the upper room after the Resurrection. Peter was present at the Accention of Jesus into Heaven, yet he still had not recieved the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Upon recieving the Baptism, It changed him inwardly
 
Active
They Are the same thing. The indwelling happens as the Holy Spirit is being immersed / baptized Into the person. The person's soul is being 'immersed' by the Holy Spirit. And He, the Holy Spirit Stays in / with/ the person until the person is with Jesus Christ.
Sue, being immersed can be used to describe a whole slew of things when we talk about God with us.

But there are certainly different Baptisms. John the Baptist tells us this as well. I baptize you with water etc.

It initial Baptism , we receive as adopted sons and daughters, to become His Children is with Water.

And the Baptism that fills us with the Holy Spirit is in the Fire of God.

The scripture is filled with references of this reguard. "Fan into a flame" (Apostle Paul) dont put under a basket the lamp, but let it shine for the whole world to see, (Jesus) the gold needs to be refined. Coming into the family of God. We are as raw gold. Now God will refine us, if we just let Him.. into a thing of beauty. And we become that with the filling of the Holy Spirit.

Many children of God dont know they have recieved the Holy Spirit. But you can tell by the fruits. Humility, love, unconditional love.
 
Loyal
Fruit of the spirit

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
 
Active
Fruit of the spirit

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
No one can demistrate these fruits, unless the Holy Spirit is within them.
 
Loyal
No one can demistrate these fruits, unless the Holy Spirit is within them.

that is interesting, I never thought of it that way, but do you have any scripture to back that up?? I know plenty of unsaved people that have lots of self control, I am not saying you are wrong,
 
Active
that is interesting, I never thought of it that way, but do you have any scripture to back that up?? I know plenty of unsaved people that have lots of self control, I am not saying you are wrong,
How does anyone know another is saved or not saved. Just by saying i Know Jesus as my Lord and Savior is not a guarentee of Salvation. You can say that till the cows come home, but never believe it in your heart. Yet Paul says clearly, that these are the signs to know that a person does indeed have the Spirit with them.
 
Member
Let’s read some passages first.

1 Corinthians 12:10
To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

1 Corinthians 13:1-2

1 Corinthians 13:8
Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

We can clearly learn from them that the gifts have a goal but also an order. In case of speaking in tongues and their interpretation is one of the best cases out there. What benefits would your church get from a so called speaker if nobody ever understands what he is saying? It just ends up being a terrible show worth nothing from a spiritual point of view. Interestingly that is the case in most places because one guy has no slight idea of what the hell the other guy is talking about then. In case you say there is an interpreter at his side, let me tell you that both of those guys are fake and just came up with an act, not better than a comedy standup act.

Who ever told you that believers nowadays ever need to raise their hands to get indwelled by the Holy Spirit? Every believer receives the Gift of Our Savior, His Spirit, after accepting the Lord as his or her own Savior. Sadly, those that wanna treat us like mere merchandise do sell people the idea they got the unction of the Spirit when that can’t be the case anymore!

As the verse 8 already states, prophecies, speaking in tongues and interpreting them have ceased already! Once they ceased, there wouldn’t be any “revival” involving those temporary gifts of the Holy Spirit. There are three reasons why they can’t come back in modern era.

1. The Bible, God’s Word has been completed already! There’s no more need to add anything to it since John ended writing the Book of Revelation. Our Lord Jesus Christ already told us all every single thing we should ever need to know.

2. Isaiah 28:7-11 states that the Lord was addressing to the people of Israel that abandoned His Ways. He would punish them for that in a very curious way, by speaking a different tongue!
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Verses 12 and 13 speak about the rest of His punishment. So the gift of tongues was no kids’ toy but a tool to show Israel how it had been discarded by God for not listening to His Voice. In plain words, it was a miraculous sign God used to tell Israel that the time of their repentance had come and they would still reject Him! As you can confirm, history tells us that most Jews are still unbelievers! Israel still ignores the Lord’s Call! Even if average people speak their own tongue and are able to discuss matters pertaining to their very same Lord, the One they say they still serve, they still dare to disregard His Word!

Whenever you go and read that in the early churches they were capable of speaking tongues, there were Jews that could listen to them! All of them had at least one single Jewish visitor or local attending their meeting or service or was a passerby.

Since most of your cults if not all lack of the presence of Jewish visitors, how do you think that you can just come up with some non sensical words and call them the gift of tongues? Especially when no one ever gets a grasp of what you’re talking about! I’m sorry to tell you this, but stop pretending you’re “more” indwelled by the Holy Spirit than other believers because you have been fooling yourselves by preachers that twisted God’s Word and the wise way He actually works!

3. Those believers needed to prove God was already working in miraculous ways because He was testifying they were His true believers, His humble servants! Nowadays the Bible, His Holy Word, is His Witness.

The temporary gifts of the Spirit ceased to be manifested many centuries ago. Its so called revival or return is nothing but the deceptions that the Lord and His Apostles warned us about to not let the devil and his son of perdition fool us!

Ezekiel 13:8,10
8 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord God.
10 Because, even because they have seduced my people, saying, Peace; and there was no peace; and one built up a wall, and, lo, others daubed it with untempered morter:

If ancient so called prophets would be punished for fooling His People, what makes you ever think you’ll get away with that fake show of yours? You only show people stuff that numb their senses! It has a sensual nature that only addresses to the flesh and its lust and not the Spirit nor your own souls in a spiritual way!

Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

Do you still think that you have been working in God’s Name? You better think it twice!

Matthew 7:22-23
22 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?"
23 "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Matthew 24:11,24
11 "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many."
24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

2 Peter 2:1-3,12,14,15,17-19
1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

Yes, those fake prophets and so called apostles are making merchandise of you! Haven’t you noticed how most of them get rich for no good reason? They get expensive clothing, luxury cars, mansions, helicopters, planes, ships and large temples of concrete. Isn’t that even a little suspicious, guys? Since when was the Church called to be rich according to the world? Our treasures as believers should be stored in Heaven awaiting for us!

Don’t forget the Apostle John’s warning for he was a true Apostle hand picked by the Lord Himself!

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
 
Loyal
As the verse 8 already states, prophecies, speaking in tongues and interpreting them have ceased already! Once they ceased, there wouldn’t be any “revival” involving those temporary gifts of the Holy Spirit. There are three reasons why they can’t come back in modern era.
Where do you people come up with all this nonsense?
The above quoted statement is pure rubish.
 
Member
Be careful! Those are passages that you can find in the Scriptures so they are God's Word and you can't disregard them just because you don't like them! If you still ignore them, you're not a true believer for they are Inspired passages written by people guided by His Holy Spirit! You still need to find Jesus Christ in order to learn the sound doctrine of the Bible so people that have been fooled by those false prophets need to repent from listening to those wolves dressed as sheep! Then you'll be able to start learning what the Lord actually wants to teach you, that you shouldn't judge according to your flesh and all that flashy stuff those fake apostles cry aloud out there.
 
Loyal
Be careful! Those are passages that you can find in the Scriptures so they are God's Word and you can't disregard them just because you don't like them! If you still ignore them, you're not a true believer for they are Inspired passages written by people guided by His Holy Spirit! You still need to find Jesus Christ in order to learn the sound doctrine of the Bible so people that have been fooled by those false prophets need to repent from listening to those wolves dressed as sheep! Then you'll be able to start learning what the Lord actually wants to teach you, that you shouldn't judge according to your flesh and all that flashy stuff those fake apostles cry aloud out there.
If you are referring to my reply then please use the reply button or tag me.

The Scriptures are truth, your understanding of them are not correct at all.

Tongues and Prophecy and so forth have not ceased or been done away with.

Let's stick to what is written in His Most Holy Word PLEASE
 
Member
If you are referring to my reply then please use the reply button or tag me.

The Scriptures are truth, your understanding of them are not correct at all.

Tongues and Prophecy and so forth have not ceased or been done away with.

Let's stick to what is written in His Most Holy Word PLEASE
You asked for it and here it is even if you don't like it!

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

So it's scriptural, my friends! Plus there's the fact that tongues and prophecies vanished as gifts for CENTURIES! It wasn't before some extremists twisted His Word less than 2 centuries ago to let people think they could speak unknown tongues when the Holy Spirit no longer needs to use them because people has found ways to learn other languages. The increase in science in the latter days was also prophesied!
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
jaboyle100 Devotionals 6
Lovely Bible Discussions 40
O Bible Discussions 106

Similar threads


Top