Living and Dying... in sin

[Born Again 2004]

My friend you may not be able to accept what others believe as your own, but you do need to learn to control the sarcasm. It is very apparent even in a typed post. The following verse would, I believe, apply:

• I have never said I was perfect.
• If it is Sarcasm, I apologize.
• Being sarcasm then, does that make it false?

 

[At Peace]

Actually Brother the forum is filled with them and every Christian I know has matured in Christ to some degree.
Measuring Stick? Come on Brother , really?
Blessings to you

Has their maturity allowed them to be free of sin?
It would be a grave mistake to compare yourself against other "some degree" immature folks, if those folks still commit sin.. (2 Cor 10:12)

Or are you making the mistake of calling "sinners" "Christian".

 

[At Peace]

It's not about walking sin free in the flesh. It's growing in Christ and letting Him change you. You never out grow growth.

Do you think that at some point your "maturity" will allow you to walk sin free?

He will show you things to remove or change that are actually sin (opposed)
to His Word. A deeper depth of understanding.

You sure do cling to the supposed "hidden sins you don't yet know are sins" reason to deny perfection on earth.

 

[At Peace]

If he really had, unless his "eyes to see" had moved from the "through a glass darkly" all the way to the "face to face", how could be so certain of what he was seeing that he could say without hesitation, "Yes"?

What I am confronting is his "can't be perfect because I'm not mature enough to know what all is sin" position.
If a man is born of God, he knows if his actions offend God or not.
His "maturity" ploy is an excuse to deny the finished work of Christ.

 

[At Peace]

But it hurts so!
Saying it and doing are two entirely different things But, of-course I forget you and Mr. Peace are perfect, so whom am I to judge?

• Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
• Romans 3:10 As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
• Proverbs 26:12 Do you see a man who is wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.
• Mark 10:18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.
• Isaiah 5:21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, and shrewd in their own sight!
• Ecclesiastes 7:20 Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

I love seeing those OT verses from the perspective of a NT son of God.
Truly they remind me of how much power God has used to change me from what I once was.
BTW, if you don't think Jesus was "good"...I pity you.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

His "maturity ploy is an excuso deny the finished work of Christ.

This is getting old.
Why not just stop saying people are saying things they are not.

You are alone in this attitude that one does not grow in Christ.

 

[At Peace]

This is getting old.
Why not just stop saying people are saying things they are not.

You are alone in this attitude that one does not grow in Christ.

I do think folks grow in Christ.
That being said, however, makes me think you don't think "being in Christ" is enough to keep one free from sin.
You keep falling back on the "as I mature I will see things as sin that I don't already know are sin".
That is a mistake.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

makes me think you don't think "being in Christ" is enough to keep one free from sin.

Stop thinking that then. I don't

You keep falling back on the "as I mature I will see things as sin that I don't already know are sin".
That is a mistake.

If that's what you want to think then that's your choice.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I do think folks grow in Christ.
That being said, however, makes me think you don't think "being in Christ" is enough to keep one free from sin.
You keep falling back on the "as I mature I will see things as sin that I don't already know are sin".
That is a mistake.

Ephesians 4:15
but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

Hebrews 6:1-2
Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

James 1:2-4
Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance. And let endurance have its perfect result, so that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

Romans 5:3-4
And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;

2Peter3:8
but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

OK Let's also look at what Paul said.
Philippians 3:12

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

So we see here Paul even said He was not perfect or perfected.
He has the same Holy Spirit that we all do.
Paul said he moves forward towards Christ.
That's Growing in your knowledge and understanding in Christ. Maturity in Christ.

1corinthians13:9
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture!

So if WE ONLY KNOW IN PART then there are things we don't get know. Those things we don't get know are as holes in our doctrine or MISSING UNDERSTANDING - KNOWLEDGE.

As we grow we become more like Christ Jesus and this means we become into a more Holy State and More Righteous State.
So if we become more like Christ then that light will SHOW UP THINGS ABOUT YOU that need to change - other wise you won't be able to walk in this new light.

Those things exposed by this new light in you will now become sin in you. Anything the Light exposes that needs to be changed - if left unchanged becomes disobedience which is also sin.

Do you think you have So much Christ in you that you have nothing to change?

Please stop tearing down brothers who are striving to grow in Christ and become more and more perfected in Christ - that is not pulling them out of fire.

Blessings to you

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

You keep falling back on the "as I mature I will see things as sin that I don't already know are sin" That is a mistake.

In case you missed it the First time.

1corinthians13:9
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture!

So if WE ONLY KNOW IN PART then there are things we don't get know. Those things we don't get know are as holes in our doctrine or MISSING UNDERSTANDING - KNOWLEDGE.

As we grow we become more like Christ Jesus and this means we become into a more Holy State and More Righteous State.
So if we become more like Christ then that light will SHOW UP THINGS ABOUT YOU that need to change - other wise you won't be able to walk in this new light.

Those things exposed by this new light in you will now become sin in you. Anything the Light exposes that needs to be changed - if left unchanged becomes disobedience which is also sin.

Do you think you have So much Christ in you that you have nothing to change?

Please stop tearing down brothers who are striving to grow in Christ and become more and more perfected in Christ - that is not pulling them out of fire.

Blessings to you

 

[Dave M]

@At Peace when you make accusations about other people it shows how far from perfect that you really are, just like the rest of us non-perfect people. If you want to go around claiming that you are perfect I am ok with that but you do not act it, I have never seen you respond to a prayer request here on JT is that loving your neighbor as your self?? I am also guilty of this I do not respond every time. But what kind of example is that setting from someone claiming to be perfect.


2 Timothy 2:23-24
Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,

I read the above verse and know that I am not perfect, can you do the same? who here when takes a serious look at that them self can say then NEVER are quarrelsome not me, although I am working on it

I wish you well with your walk with Christ, we all have a long way to go, and we all have come a long way. Peace

 

[amadeus2]

• I have never said I was perfect.
• If it is Sarcasm, I apologize.
• Being sarcasm then, does that make it false?

Who cannot attain perfection according to what is written in scripture? Anyone who believes God and acts accordingly can be perfected. To deny it, if believe the scripture is from God is then to call God a liar. A person does not have to wait until after physical death to trust God that much. To say that he does is adding something to the scripture that is not already written.

Apology accepted.

What's true is what God says is true. The way we say things, whether true or not, is on us.

"For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matt 12:37

Let God be the judge.

 

[amadeus2]

What I am confronting is his "can't be perfect because I'm not mature enough to know what all is sin" position.
If a man is born of God, he knows if his actions offend God or not.
His "maturity" ploy is an excuse to deny the finished work of Christ.

We can, I believe, be perfect at any point of our walk with God... even though we may still be growing or maturing. This is a major point to the whole Book of Job where he starts out being called perfect in the very first verse. At the end of the Book he is still perfect in the eyes of God, but he has matured. People err when they decide what "perfect" means to them or to man instead of understanding what it means to God. They also err when they decide that God cannot do what Jesus says that He can do.

Don't argue needlessly to win the argument. Simply stand where God wants you stand and say what He wants you to say. His sheep do "hear" His voice. Remember as well that no matter how certain we are that we are right, others who disagree also believe they are right:

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

Each of us needs to come to God each day in the "lowest room" and then as the Apostle Paul wrote it: God gives the increase. No one else gives real increases in the things of God even though God may use a man to accomplish His purposes.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Who cannot attain perfection according to what is written in scripture? Anyone who believes God and acts accordingly can be perfected. To deny it, if believe the scripture is from God is then to call God a liar. A person does not have to wait until after physical death to trust God that much. To say that he does is adding something to the scripture that is not already written.

Apology accepted.

What's true is what God says is true. The way we say things, whether true or not, is on us.

"For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Matt 12:37

Let God be the judge.

• Well, I'll say it as you have said to me , "Friend"....now was that sarcasm when you said that?
• Friend, according to God's word, you should be perfect.
• Friend, according to God's word, I think it is safe to say, that if you and Mr. Peace are to be sinless, you would have to do it perfectly, 24/7, every day for the rest of your life for God to accept you as sinless!
• Yes, let's let God be the judge. I know with out a doubt, he has already judge me!

 

[At Peace]

Ephesians 4:15
but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

Amen, and I have already stipulated that we DO grow in grace and knowledge.

OK Let's also look at what Paul said.
Philippians 3:12
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
So we see here Paul even said He was not perfect or perfected.
He has the same Holy Spirit that we all do.
Paul said he moves forward towards Christ.
That's Growing in your knowledge and understanding in Christ. Maturity in Christ.

Had you continued to the last verse of Phil 3, you would have seen what Paul had no yet "attained"..."Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."
Paul awaited his glorified body.

1corinthians13:9
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture!
So if WE ONLY KNOW IN PART then there are things we don't get know. Those things we don't get know are as holes in our doctrine or MISSING UNDERSTANDING - KNOWLEDGE.
As we grow we become more like Christ Jesus and this means we become into a more Holy State and More Righteous State.
So if we become more like Christ then that light will SHOW UP THINGS ABOUT YOU that need to change - other wise you won't be able to walk in this new light.
Those things exposed by this new light in you will now become sin in you. Anything the Light exposes that needs to be changed - if left unchanged becomes disobedience which is also sin.

Do you think you have So much Christ in you that you have nothing to change?

You seem to think that Christ will reside in a defiled man.
Slowly realizing, and then pushing out the new found sinfulness.
I posit that Christ won't reside in a man who commits sin...at all.
Sin would manifest which "tree" he is born of. (1 John 3:9)
My conversion/rebirth produced a "holy man".
From that base-point I will grow in grace and knowledge, but I won't ever regress to an unholy state. (Not if I want to continue calling myself a Christian)
Your doctrine is one of "gradual sanctification", and is not of God.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

My conversion/rebirth produced a "holy man".
From that base-point I will grow in grace and knowledge, but I won't ever regress to an unholy state. (Not if I want to continue calling myself a Christian)
Your doctrine is one of "gradual sanctification", and is not of God.

No that is not true.
Gradual Growth is of God.
This instant method you claim ,was a sinner and now I am perfected and there is no sin in me is not right.

God did not remove you and your ways, that is something you must do and it's a life long event.
1corinthians13:9
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

Now our knowledge is partial and incomplete, and even the gift of prophecy reveals only part of the whole picture!

So if WE ONLY KNOW IN PART then there are things we don't get know. Those things we don't get know are as holes in our doctrine or MISSING UNDERSTANDING - KNOWLEDGE.

As we grow we become more like Christ Jesus and this means we become into a more Holy State and More Righteous State.
So if we become more like Christ then that light will SHOW UP THINGS ABOUT YOU that need to change - other wise you won't be able to walk in this new light.

Those things exposed by this new light in you will now become sin in you. Anything the Light exposes that needs to be changed - if left unchanged becomes disobedience which is also sin.

Do you think you have So much Christ in you that you have nothing to change?

Please stop tearing down brothers who are striving to grow in Christ and become more and more perfected in Christ - that is not pulling them out of fire.

Blessings to you

 

[KingJ]

Please stop tearing down brothers who are striving to grow in Christ and become more and more perfected in Christ - that is not pulling them out of fire.

So, when Peace tells me that I am not a Christian and am going to eternity in hell, because I repent too often, he is not uplifting and encouraging?

He causes me to examine myself harsher. I then realize I fail terribly and can probably never be a Christian in his heaven. Fortunately for me, I will be in the heaven with people who need a helper John 14:26 and a Savior.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Anyone who believes God and acts accordingly can be perfected. T

I believe God and I believe this 1 Corinthians 13: 9-10
9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

I am sure you will disagree but, this is talking about our physical death and proves we are not perfect and that we are only glorified and made perfect in the spirit world after our deaths

• Know in part and prophesy in part...not perfect yet
• When completeness comes what in part disappears. ....perfection comes and imperfection disappears once we enter God's spiritual realm.

To deny it, if believe the scripture is from God is then to call God a liar.

I certainly believe scripture is true and alive and I most assuredly don't think God is a liar.....who is judging now?

 

[amadeus2]

• Well, I'll say it as you have said to me , "Friend"....now was that sarcasm when you said that?
• Friend, according to God's word, you should be perfect.
• Friend, according to God's word, I think it is safe to say, that if you and Mr. Peace are to be sinless, you would have to do it perfectly, 24/7, every day for the rest of your life for God to accept you as sinless!
• Yes, let's let God be the judge. I know with out a doubt, he has already judge me!

No sarcasm implied or intended with my use of the word, friend. I would hope to be a real friend to you or anyone who indicates they love God and believe in His Son Jesus even if they disagree with me on some points of doctrine. As to the word, perfect, I look to what David said to his son, Solomon who was to follow him as King of Israel to help my own understanding of what God means by it:

"And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever." I Chron 28:9

How was Solomon to have a "perfect heart" in his time and place when Jesus had not yet opened the Way? Solomon was being advised to have what was available which God certainly knew as He knows it for us now. You are still viewing perfection as man views it rather than as God views it. How well does any of us really understand that? We understand it only as well as God has given us understanding. This is where that impossible comes into play: "Pray without ceasing" and "Rejoice in the Lord always".

I do not believe that God has rendered the final judgment until the course of a person is finished. But... that is where I stand on that. I realize that we stand in different places on that and some other things. The most important thing is as I have said what is in our heart. That is where God is looking.

 

[Born Again 2004]

No sarcasm implied or intended with my use of the word, friend

So you say... But, according to you....mine was sarcasm, Friend!!...Lol!, I guess sarcasm is in the eye of the beholder? Maybe you shouldn't worry about the speck in my eye, with the log in yours!