Living and Dying... in sin

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Ezek 18:24; "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.

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We hear the words "salvation" and "saved" alot. I mean that's kind of the purpose of being a Christian.
So we can have salvation... so we can be "saved".

Saved from what? Hell, the Lake of Fire, the wrath of God, eternal damnation.
We get saved (from these things) by our in Jesus. That He died and rose again. He was the Lamb of God
that was sacrificed for our sins. But was that it? Is that all He died for?

[NASB] 1 Pet 2:24; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

Different Bibles word this verse slightly differently, but I like this version.
He bore our sins ... on the cross ...

"So that" we might die TO sin and live to righteousness.
I notice it doesn't say "so that" we can continue to sin.
I notice it also doesn't say "so that" we might die in sin.

It says... "so that".... we might die to sin. In other words, He didn't die on the cross just so we could
go on to continue sinning.

King James is similar.
[KJV] 1 Pet 2:24; Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

He bore our sins.. on the tree... THAT we should live unto righteousness.
It doesn't say so that should live in sin. It says He died so that we would live unto righteousness.

2 Cor 5:21; He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Paul seems to saying the same thing.

Rom 6:1; What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?

Just because we have grace, does that mean we are free to continue in sin and sin all we want?

Rom 6:2; May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

Rom 6:12; Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
Rom 6:15; What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!

Gal 2:17; "But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!

Paul seems to be saying over and over again... don't continue to live in sin.

Jesus even said ...
Luke 13:3; "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

If we don't quit sinning. We will perish... (die in our sins)

But.. what if I just don't stop sinning. Grace covers me even if I keep on sinning right?

Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27; but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

The Bible seems to say... NO.

But what about verses like .....

Rom 8:1; Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

That mean "there is no condemnation" if I believe in Jesus right?

Again, the wording here is important... It says here... "those who are 'IN' Christ Jesus"
(emphasis mine).

Well... I have Jesus in me right? I believe in Jesus, so I must have Jesus in me.
How do we know if we have Jesus IN us.

John 14:23; Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

If we keep (His) word... His teachings.. then Jesus will make His abode within us.
If we don't keep His word and teaching does He still abide in us? The next verse says..

John 14:24; "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.

Jesus says the people who don't keep His teachings don't belong to Him.

First John says the same thing.

1 Jn 3:24; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Jesus, and Jesus abides in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

If we keep His commandments... (His words, His teachings)... then Jesus abides in us.

1 Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

If we don't keep His commandments... and we say we know Him. We are liars!!

So it's true... there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. But just make sure you
are IN Christ Jesus, before you make that claim.

Also Jesus died for our sins... but He also bore our sins... so that.. we would die TO sin. (not continuing IN
sin).
 
Loyal Member
Ezek 18:24; "But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live? All his righteous deeds which he has done will not be remembered for his treachery which he has committed and his sin which he has committed; for them he will die.
We hear the words "salvation" and "saved" alot. I mean that's kind of the purpose of being a Christian.
So we can have salvation... so we can be "saved".
Saved from what? Hell, the Lake of Fire, the wrath of God, eternal damnation.
We get saved (from these things) by our in Jesus. That He died and rose again. He was the Lamb of God
that was sacrificed for our sins. But was that it? Is that all He died for?
[NASB] 1 Pet 2:24; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
Different Bibles word this verse slightly differently, but I like this version.
He bore our sins ... on the cross ...
"So that" we might die TO sin and live to righteousness.
I notice it doesn't say "so that" we can continue to sin.
I notice it also doesn't say "so that" we might die in sin.
It says... "so that".... we might die to sin. In other words, He didn't die on the cross just so we could
go on to continue sinning.
King James is similar.
[KJV] 1 Pet 2:24; Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
He bore our sins.. on the tree... THAT we should live unto righteousness
It doesn't say so that should live in sin. It says He died so that we would live unto righteousness.
2 Cor 5:21; He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Paul seems to saying the same thing.
Rom 6:1; What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
Just because we have grace, does that mean we are free to continue in sin and sin all we want?
Rom 6:2; May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
Rom 6:12; Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
Rom 6:15; What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
Gal 2:17; "But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be!
Paul seems to be saying over and over again... don't continue to live in sin.
Jesus even said ...
Luke 13:3; "I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
If we don't quit sinning. We will perish... (die in our sins)
But.. what if I just don't stop sinning. Grace covers me even if I keep on sinning right?
Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27; but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.
The Bible seems to say... NO.

But what about verses like .....
Rom 8:1; Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
That mean "there is no condemnation" if I believe in Jesus right?
Again, the wording here is important... It says here... "those who are 'IN' Christ Jesus"
(emphasis mine).
Well... I have Jesus in me right? I believe in Jesus, so I must have Jesus in me.
How do we know if we have Jesus IN us.
John 14:23; Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.

If we keep (His) word... His teachings.. then Jesus will make His abode within us.
If we don't keep His word and teaching does He still abide in us? The next verse says..
John 14:24; "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's who sent Me.

Jesus says the people who don't keep His teachings don't belong to Him.
First John says the same thing.
1 Jn 3:24; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Jesus, and Jesus abides in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
If we keep His commandments... (His words, His teachings)... then Jesus abides in us.
1 Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
If we don't keep His commandments... and we say we know Him. We are liars!!
So it's true... there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. But just make sure you
are IN Christ Jesus, before you make that claim.
Also Jesus died for our sins... but He also bore our sins... so that.. we would die TO sin. (not continuing IN
sin).
Great post...
To go on a bit further concerning "in" Christ...your Romans 6 verses almost touched on it.
Rom 6:3..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
We "get in" Jesus be being "immersed" into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection.
 
Loyal Member
Ezek 18:24 But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live?

Note that this OT verse says 'turns away' and does 'all' the abominations. This is not talking to venial sin. This is not talking of a Christian. But we can learn a a truth from it. No verse is in vein.

The truth is, if you are an unrepentant venial sinner or one in mortal sins, you are a lying to yourself if you call yourself a Christian.
 
Loyal Member
Note that this OT verse says 'turns away' and does 'all' the abominations. This is not talking to venial sin. This is not talking of a Christian. But we can learn a a truth from it. No verse is in vein.
Jesus seems to say just the opposite.
Saying someone is "good for nothing" is the same thing as murder. (You end up in the fiery hell)
Lusting for a woman in your thoughts is the same things as adultery.

Now 1st John says there is "a sin" that doesn't lead to death. ( 1 Jn 5:16-17; ) This seems to say there aren't "many" sins that don't lead to death.

As I know of no Protestant churches that still believe in venial and mortal sins... I wonder what church you go to that teaches this.
Perhaps you should start another thread that talks about venial and mortal sins. I'm not sure anyone here will agree with it, but I suppose not everyone
knows what they are either. As for me.. sin is sin... none of it is OK with God.
 
Loyal Member
Ezek 18:24 But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that a wicked man does, will he live?

Note that this OT verse says 'turns away' and does 'all' the abominations. This is not talking to venial sin. This is not talking of a Christian. But we can learn a a truth from it. No verse is in vein.

The truth is, if you are an unrepentant venial sinner or one in mortal sins, you are a lying to yourself if you call yourself a Christian.
Where in the bible are venial and mortal sins expounded on?
Oh right, they aren't.
All sin warrants a second death. (Rom 6:23)
 
Loyal Member
Jesus seems to say just the opposite.
Saying someone is "good for nothing" is the same thing as murder. (You end up in the fiery hell)
Lusting for a woman in your thoughts is the same things as adultery.

Now 1st John says there is "a sin" that doesn't lead to death. ( 1 Jn 5:16-17; ) This seems to say there aren't "many" sins that don't lead to death.

As I know of no Protestant churches that still believe in venial and mortal sins... I wonder what church you go to that teaches this.
Perhaps you should start another thread that talks about venial and mortal sins. I'm not sure anyone here will agree with it, but I suppose not everyone
knows what they are either. As for me.. sin is sin... none of it is OK with God.
A sin that "doesn't lead to death" is one you repent of and never do again.
 
Loyal Member
Jesus seems to say just the opposite.
Saying someone is "good for nothing" is the same thing as murder. (You end up in the fiery hell)
Lusting for a woman in your thoughts is the same things as adultery.
I don't know how many times I need to quote this. I hope this is the last time.

Matt 5:28 (venial sin) needs to be read with Matt 5:32 (mortal sin) for context :wink:.
 
Loyal Member
Where in the bible are venial and mortal sins expounded on?
Oh right, they aren't.
All sin warrants a second death. (Rom 6:23)
Grasping venial and mortal sins is like grasping the trinity. Sodom was not obliterated because it was reported that some were stealing candy from the candy store.

Then we do have these scriptures:

James 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown (IE not just a thought), gives birth to death.

1 John 5:16-17 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin,and there is sin that does not lead to death. IE All wrong doing is sin, but not all sin is mortal sin.
 
Loyal Member
Now 1st John says there is "a sin" that doesn't lead to death. ( 1 Jn 5:16-17; ) This seems to say there aren't "many" sins that don't lead to death.

As I know of no Protestant churches that still believe in venial and mortal sins... I wonder what church you go to that teaches this.
Perhaps you should start another thread that talks about venial and mortal sins. I'm not sure anyone here will agree with it, but I suppose not everyone
knows what they are either. As for me.. sin is sin... none of it is OK with God.
You are not reading 1 John 5:16-17 properly. Read it as it is written.

The church I go to does not teach mortal and venial sins. It is a Catholic teaching I agree with. Like I do the trinity.

I can't understand why others don't. I mean.....there were differing punishments for sin with Jews. Why was that? Did God not see all sin as the same? Does God change? Have we forgotten that God ordained a graphic and violent stoning for some sinners?
 
Loyal Member
All sin warrants a second death. (Rom 6:23)
You have inserted your own words into scripture there. Not all sin warrants second death.

All sin warrants first death. Adam and Eve entered death. David entered death. Abraham entered death. All sinners, yet separated in Hades, with Abraham's bosom.

This would be the eternal home for mankind who hates sin more then they love it, if Jesus never died.

A mortal sinner is someone who loves sin > hates it, without a doubt in anyone's mind.

The kind of sinner Paul says in 1 Cor 5:11, that we should not even eat with. The kind of sinner that rejects Jesus John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light, because their deeds were evil. A venial sinner does not necessarily '''love''' darkness. A consistent unrepentant venial sinner can become a mortal sinner.
 
Loyal Member
You have inserted your own words into scripture there. Not all sin warrants second death.

All sin warrants first death. Adam and Eve entered death. David entered death. Abraham entered death. All sinners, yet separated in Hades, with Abraham's bosom.

This would be the eternal home for mankind who hates sin more then they love it, if Jesus never died.

A mortal sinner is someone who loves sin > hates it, without a doubt in anyone's mind.

The kind of sinner Paul says in 1 Cor 5:11, that we should not even eat with. The kind of sinner that rejects Jesus John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light, because their deeds were evil. A venial sinner does not necessarily '''love''' darkness. A consistent unrepentant venial sinner can become a mortal sinner.
Boy., where do we even start with this. One thing at a time I guess.

First of all Sheol is not Abraham's Bosom, or Paradise. Sheol was split into two parts. Paradise/Abraham's Bosom was only on one side of Sheol,
Hades was on the other side. There was a large chasm between them.

Luke 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’

The "righteous" such as Lazarus went to Abraham's Bosom. The "unrighteous" such as the rich man.. went to hades.

Neither of these places is the "eternal" resting place for mankind. After Jesus sprinked His blood on the mercy seat in heaven, He descended into the lower
parts of the earth and set the captives free. (at least the righteous ones).

The righteous can end up a number of different places, but mostly the New Jerusalem.
The un-righteous, hades itself and everyone one in it, eventually get cast into the Lake of Fire.

Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Rev 20:15; Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Hades itself isn't the second death. The lake of fire is the second death.

I don't think I can answer the part about the "different kinds of sins" here in a quick and short way. So I will answer in another post.
 
Loyal Member
Boy., where do we even start with this. One thing at a time I guess.

1. First of all Sheol is not Abraham's Bosom, or Paradise. Sheol was split into two parts. Paradise/Abraham's Bosom was only on one side of Sheol,
Hades was on the other side. There was a large chasm between them.

Luke 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’

2. The "righteous" such as Lazarus went to Abraham's Bosom. The "unrighteous" such as the rich man.. went to hades.

Neither of these places is the "eternal" resting place for mankind. After Jesus sprinked His blood on the mercy seat in heaven, He descended into the lower
parts of the earth and set the captives free. (at least the righteous ones).

3. The righteous can end up a number of different places, but mostly the New Jerusalem.
The un-righteous, hades itself and everyone one in it, eventually get cast into the Lake of Fire.

Rev 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Rev 20:15; Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

4. Hades itself isn't the second death. The lake of fire is the second death.

I don't think I can answer the part about the "different kinds of sins" here in a quick and short way. So I will answer in another post.
BAC you are skimming my post.

1. I agree with you. Why are you stating this?
2, I agree with you. Why are you stating this?
3. I agree with you. Why are you stating this?
4. I agree with you. Why are you stating this?

I would prefer you quoting me please, I cannot grasp what in my post warranted this reply :wink:.
 
Loyal Member
Great post...
To go on a bit further concerning "in" Christ...your Romans 6 verses almost touched on it.
Rom 6:3..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
We "get in" Jesus be being "immersed" into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection.
You can be born again and saved inside or outside of water.
 
Loyal Member
Where in the bible are venial and mortal sins expounded on?
Oh right, they aren't.
All sin warrants a second death. (Rom 6:23)
  • All have one birth, physical
  • Some have a second birth, Spiritual, believing Christians
  • All die the first death, Physical
  • Some have a second birth, Spiritual, believing Christians
  • Some have a second death, Spiritual, not believing Christians
  • Romans 8:1
 
Loyal Member
Grasping venial and mortal sins is like grasping the trinity. Sodom was not obliterated because it was reported that some were stealing candy from the candy store.
Yet the children perished too.

Then we do have these scriptures:
James 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown (IE not just a thought), gives birth to death.

It amazes me that you can see a difference between a sin and a "full-grown" sin.
Sin is sin.


1 John 5:16-17
If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin,and there is sin that does not lead to death. IE All wrong doing is sin, but not all sin is mortal sin.
As I wrote earlier, a sin not unto death is one that is repented of and never committed again.
The penalty for stealing candy is the same as for murder.
Permanent separation from God and eternity in a lake of fire.

I thank God for having mercy on me and for forgiving my past sins. Plus, for allowing me to now walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.
 

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