That is referring to the wicked and sinners not being on God's green earth any more as the time will come where His kingdom will be Paradise once hell and death and all evil is gone to the lake of fire.
How Can God Send People to Hell Who Haven't Heard About Jesus?
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MedicBravo
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Regardless, being obsessed with word play isn't helping anyone.
No matter the language, we are discussing this in English and whatever label floats your boat, it isn't simply "the grave" nor that garbage dump which doesn't exist anymore. Jesus spoke on Hell more than anyone.
Given English didn't exist as it does today back in Old Hebrew and Greek then the closest word for it is used. If Hell is nothing but "darkness and knowingly being without God" and nothing else more people would gladly go into it. I hope you're not trying to minimize it.
What Is Hell In The Bible? (10 Powerful Truths)
What Is Hell? How Does The Bible Describe Hell? What is hell like in the Bible? Let's find out more abut hell in the New and Old Testament of the Bible.
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Fire causes the greatest pain known to man, and the furnace of fire into which the sinners are cast represents the excruciating torment of hell, which is the destiny of every unbeliever. This fire of hell is unquenchable, eternal and is pictured as a great “lake of fire which burns with brimstone.” The punishment is so fearsome that in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.[19]
As to weeping…The tears which Jesus speaks here in Matt. 8:12 are those of inconsolable, never-ending wretchedness, and utter, everlasting hopelessness. The accompanying grinding or gnashing of teeth denotes excruciating pain and frenzied anger. This grinding of teeth, too, will never come to an end or cease.[20]
No matter the different names for it, it is a place and there will be torment.
Butch5
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I agree that words have to be understood in context. And yes, Strong's lists forever as a definition. However, that doesn't mean it's correct. As I pointed out, Jesus, Paul, and the other apostles spoke of the end of the aion. The best way to translate Rev 20:10 is to say they will be tormented unto the ages of ages. When translated this way it indicates that they will be tormented for quite some time, but it doesn't necessarily mean forever. If we translate aion as forever, it doesn't make sense. It would literally read unto the forever of forevers. There can't be multuple forevers.
Sure, God could set eternal torment as an example. But that's not really the question. The question is, what did He do, not what can He do. Jesus said that the wicked would suffer in Gehenna.
Mark 9:43–44 (KJV 1900): And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
The word hell is the Greek word Gehenna. Gehenna is a valley located just outside of Jerusalem. In the Old Testament it's called the Valley of the Son of Hinom. In Greek it's Gehenna. It's an actual physical location on the face of the earth. One really has to ask themselves, why would the translators take a place that we could go visit today and call it hell? Hell carries the idea of a subterranean place of torment. Gehenna can be seen today. Jesus said the wicked would be cast into Gehenna. Then gave an explanation saying where the fire isn't quenched and the worm doesn't die. He's actually referring to a passage in Isaiah.
Isaiah 66:23–24 (KJV 1900): And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another,
And from one sabbath to another,
Shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look
Upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me:
For their worm shall not die,
Neither shall their fire be quenched;
And they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
This is the passage from Isaiah. Notice first that the worshippers of God are going to be going by this place. Notice too what it is that is burning in this place. It's dead bodies. It's not living souls or spirits being tormented. It's dead bodies burning.
Butch5
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It says the wicked will be no more. It doesn't say they will be tormented forever
B-A-C
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I hope you aren't hungry anymore.
I hope you aren't wicked anymore.
Has nothing to do with not existing.
Butch5
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The closest English word isn't used. Gehenna is a valley near Jerusalem. We can go there today and walk through it. What English word should we use to describe this valley located out side of Jerusalem? If you go there you won't find souls or spirits being torment.Regardless, being obsessed with word play isn't helping anyone.
No matter the language, we are discussing this in English and whatever label floats your boat, it isn't simply "the grave" nor that garbage dump which doesn't exist anymore. Jesus spoke on Hell more than anyone.
Given English didn't exist as it does today back in Old Hebrew and Greek then the closest word for it is used. If Hell is nothing but "darkness and knowingly being without God" and nothing else more people would gladly go into it. I hope you're not trying to minimize it.
What Is Hell In The Bible? (10 Powerful Truths)
What Is Hell? How Does The Bible Describe Hell? What is hell like in the Bible? Let's find out more abut hell in the New and Old Testament of the Bible.
Fire causes the greatest pain known to man, and the furnace of fire into which the sinners are cast represents the excruciating torment of hell, which is the destiny of every unbeliever. This fire of hell is unquenchable, eternal and is pictured as a great “lake of fire which burns with brimstone.” The punishment is so fearsome that in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.[19]
As to weeping…The tears which Jesus speaks here in Matt. 8:12 are those of inconsolable, never-ending wretchedness, and utter, everlasting hopelessness. The accompanying grinding or gnashing of teeth denotes excruciating pain and frenzied anger. This grinding of teeth, too, will never come to an end or cease.[20]
No matter the different names for it, it is a place and there will be torment.
You mentioned Jesus' comment about the fire not being quenched. As I said, He's quote from Isaiah 66. What we find there is dead bodies burning. We don't find dead living (how ridiculous does that sound) people suffering in torment. It's dead bodies.
Think about what that doctrine does to God's character. Does God lie? He said in Ezekiel, 'the soul that sins shall die'. If that doctrine is true then it would mean God lied. He said the penalty is dead but in reality it's not death, it's eternal torment. If that doctrine is true and God lied what hope does anyone have of getting eternal life?
Butch5
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How exactly do you draw that conclusion?
Jeremiah 7:32 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.Regardless, being obsessed with word play isn't helping anyone.
No matter the language, we are discussing this in English and whatever label floats your boat, it isn't simply "the grave" nor that garbage dump which doesn't exist anymore. Jesus spoke on Hell more than anyone.
Given English didn't exist as it does today back in Old Hebrew and Greek then the closest word for it is used. If Hell is nothing but "darkness and knowingly being without God" and nothing else more people would gladly go into it. I hope you're not trying to minimize it.
What Is Hell In The Bible? (10 Powerful Truths)
What Is Hell? How Does The Bible Describe Hell? What is hell like in the Bible? Let's find out more abut hell in the New and Old Testament of the Bible.
Fire causes the greatest pain known to man, and the furnace of fire into which the sinners are cast represents the excruciating torment of hell, which is the destiny of every unbeliever. This fire of hell is unquenchable, eternal and is pictured as a great “lake of fire which burns with brimstone.” The punishment is so fearsome that in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.[19]
As to weeping…The tears which Jesus speaks here in Matt. 8:12 are those of inconsolable, never-ending wretchedness, and utter, everlasting hopelessness. The accompanying grinding or gnashing of teeth denotes excruciating pain and frenzied anger. This grinding of teeth, too, will never come to an end or cease.[20]
No matter the different names for it, it is a place and there will be torment.
33 And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth; and none shall fray them away.
Jesus used the term Gehenna in some places that we translated into hell in English, but it is not the hell of the after life but a hell on earth as the valley of slaughter or in the case of future prophetic event, a place of slaughter like for when a third of the earth is burned up per Revelation 8:7 for where you would find fallen Babylon USA with the left behind saints' corpses left unburied in Revelation 18:1-24.
Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
If you consider that the Marriage Supper will be held in Heaven in the kingdom of light and those denied by Him for being in iniquity that denies Him, will be cast into that outer darkness as left behind on earth, you may see the parallel of Esau in giving up his birthright for a meal and the prodigal son here in giving up his inheritance for wild living for what had happened to those unrepentant saints and former believers that were left behind..
The tears of the weeping and gnashing of teeth is the keen loss of missing out on the firstfruits of the resurrection and the damnation that comes with it in becoming forever as vessels unto dishonor in His House which is why it is necessary for God to wipe the tears from their eyes in Revelation 7:9-17 in performing a miracle to get past that keen loss because even though the prodigal son gave up his inheritance for wild living and can never get it back, he is still son.
So discernment is needed in reading and applying scriptures because Jesus is warning believers to be ready or else be cast into hell as in Gehenna, left behind to die on earth for not being ready for the Bridegroom when He comes. Luke 12:40-49 Think of what the church is to do metaphorically in 1 Corinthians 5:4-5 by excommunication, God will literally do in casting saved believers behind for not being ready, given unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, but their spirits are saved for why they will be with the Lord in Heaven when they die as the beast wages war on the saints after the rapture event and for the duration of the great tribulation.
But which wicked? The wicked thus unrepentant saved believers that were not ready for the Bridegroom when He comes or the wicked unbelievers?
Mark 9:43-44 are warnings given to saved believers. He warned them they will be cut off with unbelievers but yet still His servants for why they are getting stripes for not being ready in Luke 12:40-49
Correct and so Gehenna cannot refer to hell the after life but a hell on earth in the land of the living.
Jeremiah 7:32 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that it shall no more be called Tophet, nor the valley of the son of Hinnom, but the valley of slaughter: for they shall bury in Tophet, till there be no place.
33 And the carcases of this people shall be meat for the fowls of the heaven, and for the beasts of the earth; and none shall fray them away.
Jesus used the term Gehenna in some places that we translated into hell in English, but I agree that it is not the hell of the after life but a hell on earth as the valley of slaughter or in the case of future prophetic event, a place of slaughter like for when a third of the earth is burned up per Revelation 8:7 for where you would find fallen Babylon USA with the left behind saints' corpses left unburied in Revelation 18:1-24.
Psalm 104:35 (KJV 1900): Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth,
And let the wicked be no more.
Bless thou the Lord, O my soul.
Praise ye the Lord.
To be precise, the wicked will be consumed out of the earth, that means the land of the living for how the wicked be no more. This does not mean they cease to exist in the afterlife.
Butch5
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Butch5
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Jesus didn't use the word hell but Gehenna. Gehenna is a literal place.
The Bible doesn't speak of a hell in an afterlife. The only afterlife the Bible mentions is the Resurrection. One is either alive or dead. There is nothing in between found in Scripture
In context of the prior verse of the wicked being consumed out of the earth, for where exactly they are no more.
There are scripture about the after life.
If Jesus account of the rich man and the beggar Lazarus does not do that for you, then how about Revelation 6:9-11 about those that have been slain whose spirits are asking how long shall they wait; hence the awareness in the afterlife.
Revelation reference the hell in the afterlife.
The first time is about Jesus having the keys to hell and death.
Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
The significant reference is how hell gave up the dead that were in hell to be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Reads to me there is a hell in the afterlife where the spirits of the dead go to.
And then there is this reference about How God is the God of the living as if being the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob means they are living in the afterlife even though they are dead among the land of the living as God is the God of them still.
Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
Can you elaborate on that with scripture reference for how you perceive that?
Are you implying a double and yet future prophesy to be fulfilled?
JillianGrimes
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Well, the scriptures say that everyone is equal before God. I think it is from this law that your indignation grows. It's a personal matter for everyone. If you didn't believe in God when you were alive, it's your own fault. You still have to bear the punishment for your sins.
Remind me of that reference, please? I cannot recall it.
Actually sinners were going to hell anyway even afterwards, for not believing in His Son.
John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
That is not to say that no unbeliever could ever believe in his Son later on in life after having rejected the gospel earlier, because as long as they are in the land of the living, the Father could very well draw them unto the Son to believe in Him to be saved later on in life, even if it is at the moment of their deaths.
So believers as in former sinners are saved from hell for believing in His Son.
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That could be it since God shows no partiality with any one. I am just not sure that is the same thing as seeing everyone as equal though, just that He will judge everyone equally per the Father's will & His word.Maybe, they meant impartial?
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
Thanks, Nick.
