Abortion

[Travis]

Hey Travis thank you for your answer, but there are other methods to prevent conception so I think it's better to take an emergency after pill than to let the fetus form into a human being. I just figured this thing out while I was struggling to accept your response. I think except for the (rape) issue a person shouldn't make a baby and have second thoughts 3 weeks later in their pregnancy to kill the baby. I am in no way promoting abortion it's plain evil. Because some use these babies as demonic sacrifices for wealth and stuff which is absurd. And whether or not a child should live that should be God's choice as the Sovereign one.

Ya, I don't have all the answers for any and all situations. Since I'm not a woman, technically I will never have to personally make any decision like that. But, I do know that at the end of the day, intentionally putting a child of any age in the womb to death is murder.

I think most all of this abortion stuff is demonic, and is blood sacrificial in nature. Some things never change, no matter how you package it or what you call it, or how much anyone tries to explain it away.

Travis

 

[Taylor Barrett]

• Sorry brother Taylor but I totally disagree with you analogy. Though I agree that sin is sin and unbelief is the only sin that is unpardonable, the thought that abortion is some how analogous to the act of unbelief and, oh, abortion is somehow O.K. because we are doing the baby a favor, is reprehensible and an insult to God....I mean no offense!
• About the only thing I would agree with is that unbelief and certainly most abortion is willful sin...Hebrews 10:26
• I am not accussing you of anything, but your kind of reasoning fits right in with the liberal and progressive theologies that are creeping into the church.
• Why don't we do this instead. There is an argument with rape and incest but for the most part, why don't we make abortion go full term and then let the baby be a ward of the state for adoption. That way some women will change their minds and keep the baby. That way we perserve the sanctity of life.... Romans 13:9, "The commandment, 'Do not murder,' . . .is summed up in this one rule 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." (If we act in love, we do not take life or harm life. This is God's commandment.)

I didnt say that abortion is ok. I said it is a sin. If you want to impose God's laws on people, tell me which laws you are going to impose and which ones you are going to ignore, and why (using the bible).

 

[Taylor Barrett]

Exodus 23:7" Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent and righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked." God expects us to stand up for him as believers. If someone is not a Christian then of course he or she will not uphold God's law. Keep in mind God is the creator himself, @Taylor this is God's world, who are we to say oh well let us just appease everyone and hope God is okay with that. "Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path"-Psalm 119-105. When we reach true maturity in Christ and become an adult in our faith then you should understand that life is not about yourself. Ultimately, it is all about pleasing pleasing God and exalting his name. The Greatest commandment is to love God with all of our heart, and the second commandment is to love your neighbor as your self. You are coming from the wrong perspective, this is God's world. Now a component of your message makes sense, we should give everyone free will to do as they please. That has exceptions of course, killing innocent children is certainly outside of the boundaries. However, we should be role models and promote Christ like living.

Should we feel sorry for a child that never had to live in a cold dark world? I can testify that I could have lived in poverty and things could have been bad off for me. Instead, I was permitted to live, and ended up being adopted out of poverty. I learned about Christ Jesus, and eventually acquired a life saving relationship with him. All I can say is God will judge us for our sins. This is a sinful world, the lines of sin often are blurred by sinful humanity. Regardless, God promises if we honor him then he will honor us. Draw closer to God, ask him to test you and make you a faithful believer.

@Read more of the Bible if unsure.

If you read my original comment, you would see that I agree that abortion is a sin. If you believe in imposing God's laws on people, tell me which ones you want to impose on people and which ones you want to ignore (using the bible).

 

[RJ]

I didnt say that abortion is ok. I said it is a sin. If you want to impose God's laws on people, tell me which laws you are going to impose and which ones you are going to ignore, and why (using the bible).

1. Of course there is no imposing, by anyone, biblical priciniples to mostly secular laws.
2. I did state that you considered it a sin.
3. Abortion is a secular law and that secular law is creeping into the church by way of progressive and liberal theologies and, it sure seems to me that some of those decisions are based on similar logic that you supported in your previous post. Most all abortions on based on secular logic and not moral or they would not be done.
4. I can't , don't and have no desire to impose God's laws on any part of the secular society, that is up to the individual.
5. A Biblical principle that should guide a moral person to not abort, I already gave you in Hebrews 10: 26 . This is a basic principle about wilfull sin. Seems to me that a true Christian, with Chris tliving in them, would not elect to deliberately abort a baby, when they know it is a sin and have no reason to abort other than not wanting the baby.
6. Do you believe in the Biblical principle of wilfull sin in the above hebrews verse?

 

[Chad]

If you read my original comment, you would see that I agree that abortion is a sin. If you believe in imposing God's laws on people, tell me which ones you want to impose on people and which ones you want to ignore (using the bible).

I'm not sure what his stance is (I haven't read this thread in a while) but I noticed your comment and would like to make something clear: The bible and God's commands apply to every human being, no exceptions. There is nothing in the bible that states the laws/commands apply to some and not others. Every knee shall bow, remember?

 

[Taylor Barrett]

1. Of course there is no imposing, by anyone, biblical priciniples to mostly secular laws.
2. I did state that you considered it a sin.
3. Abortion is a secular law and that secular law is creeping into the church by way of progressive and liberal theologies and, it sure seems to me that some of those decisions are based on similar logic that you supported in your previous post. Most all abortions on based on secular logic and not moral or they would not be done.
4. I can't , don't and have no desire to impose God's laws on any part of the secular society, that is up to the individual.
5. A Biblical principle that should guide a moral person to not abort, I already gave you in Hebrews 10: 26 . This is a basic principle about wilfull sin. Seems to me that a true Christian, with Chris tliving in them, would not elect to deliberately abort a baby, when they know it is a sin and have no reason to abort other than not wanting the baby.
6. Do you believe in the Biblical principle of wilfull sin in the above hebrews verse?

I am not sure if you understand that I believe abortion is sin. As a Christian, I do not believe it is ok to sin. I do not believe abortion is ok. I believe it is wrong, it is a sin, and it should not be done. Period. I do agree with Hebrews 10:26, as I agree with The Word of God.

I'm not sure what his stance is (I haven't read this thread in a while) but I noticed your comment and would like to make something clear: The bible and God's commands apply to every human being, no exceptions. There is nothing in the bible that states the laws/commands apply to some and not others. Every knee shall bow, remember?

Of course God's law applies to everyone. Of course abortion is a sin. So is unbelief. Some Christians want to impose God's law on people by way of outlawing abortion. Why not outlaw unbelief as well, it is an even more serious breaking of God's law! That is my point. If you believe in laws against abortion, if you believe in imposing God's law on other people, then tell me which laws you will impose and which laws you will ignore, and why.

 

[RJ]

I am not sure if you understand that I believe abortion is sin. As a Christian, I do not believe it is ok to sin. I do not believe abortion is ok. I believe it is wrong, it is a sin, and it should not be done. Period. I do agree with Hebrews 10:26, as I agree with The Word of God.

Of course God's law applies to everyone. Of course abortion is a sin. So is unbelief. Some Christians want to impose God's law on people by way of outlawing abortion. Why not outlaw unbelief as well, it is an even more serious breaking of God's law! That is my point. If you believe in laws against abortion, if you believe in imposing God's law on other people, then tell me which laws you will impose and which laws you will ignore, and why.

• I understand you're conotation, all be it, it is a bit of a strech; Imposing a law to make it illegal too not beleive has as about much chance as passing as a no abortion law!
• I have no interest in imposing any of God's laws in our secular legal system, I will leave that up to him!
• I am sure he will do a great job of that when he comes back!

 

[Taylor Barrett]

• I understand you're conotation, all be it, it is a bit of a strech; Imposing a law to make it illegal too not beleive has as about much chance as passing as a no abortion law!
• I have no interest in imposing any of God's laws in our secular legal system, I will leave that up to him!
• I am sure he will do a great job of that when he comes back!

if you read my original comment, you wiill see that my whole angle is this= yes, abortion is a sin. however, if you think abortion should be outlawed, then do you think every sin should also be outlawed as well? and if not, then which sins do you think should be outlawed, and which ones shouldnt be outlawed? (which of God's laws do you want to impose on other people, and which ones do you want to 'ignore'?)

 

[RJ]

if you read my original comment, you wiill see that my whole angle is this= yes, abortion is a sin. however, if you think abortion should be outlawed, then do you think every sin should also be outlawed as well? and if not, then which sins do you think should be outlawed, and which ones shouldnt be outlawed? (which of God's laws do you want to impose on other people, and which ones do you want to 'ignore'?)

For goodness sake Taylor, your argument is distoreted. You are essentially saying, if we can't impose all of God's laws we don't impose any of them, that is rediculous. That's like saying let's impose a law against lieing......boy that would shake up all the Politicians!
Down through the ages, we wouldn't have many of our laws today, if it had not been by God's influence.
Not all non-christians are imoral. I am sure plenty of Atheists are moral. we are talking about taking a life here. Your the one who intimated that why worry about abortions because the babies go to heaven anyway. Can't we just have a more proactive attitude and just stop killing the children?

O.K., we have established that you think abortion is a sin. Are you pro-life or pro-choice?

 

[Taylor Barrett]

For goodness sake Taylor, your argument is distoreted. You are essentially saying, if we can't impose all of God's laws we don't impose any of them, that is rediculous. That's like saying let's impose a law against lieing......boy that would shake up all the Politicians!
Down through the ages, we wouldn't have many of our laws today, if it had not been by God's influence.
Not all non-christians are imoral. I am sure plenty of Atheists are moral. we are talking about taking a life here. Your the one who intimated that why worry about abortions because the babies go to heaven anyway. Can't we just have a more proactive attitude and just stop killing the children?

O.K., we have established that you think abortion is a sin. Are you pro-life or pro-choice?

i am, for the most part, indifferent to politics. God did not call us to impose His law's on people. Nor does He call us to impose any laws on people. We are called to follow His law's, not impose them on others. Not a single one of God's laws commands us to impose morality on other people. In fact, we are told "Do not resist an evil person." and "If someone steals your things from you, do not demand that they give them back" and "If someone strikes you on your left cheek, turn to them the other (right cheek) so they may strike that one as well!". Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior gave us a perfect example of how to live our earthly lives: peacefully, not imposing God's laws on other but setting an example for them by imposing His laws on ourself.

 

[professor]

@Taylor I understand most of what you are saying. However, if we truly do love one another then we will correct others and encourage them. Ultimately God will judge us in the end, yes consequences of sin are between God and yourself. I think you need to revisit scripture and pray to God to give you his wisdom. Seek Godly counsel from people who live by faith and believe every part of the word. If you can not find a good person or unsure, then pray to God to reveal someone in your life that will get you on the right track."14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ.Ephesians 14-15"- Many followers today are straying from Christ and only trying to appease nonbelievers. We as people could simply just try to appease everyone, and live for man and things would seem pretty good for a short period. The question is what are you building on or trying to serve? Man or God? Based off of your stances you are simply trying to appease everyone, which I can tell you from personal experience that does not please God. What does God say about lukewarm people?Rev 3:16" So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my Mouth" Abortion is not tolerated by God and this is God's world not ours. After all, God created us: loves us, sent his son for us even though we are the ones who mucked it all up. Is it love to tell someone that they are sinning against God?Yes, because non beliverers do not know that they are sinning against God. When we truly begin to love God and have faith in him then you will understand why it is a Christians responsibility to educate on the harmfulness of sin.(Plus sin hurts everyone- God does not want us to sin because it hurts other people and God loves and defends everyone(Not only does it hurt others but it also hurts ourselves)-God did not give us his laws to be a overbearing God, he gave them to make our lives mean something and he has good plans for us, not to harm us, but to bless us. ) -Romans 12:17-18 "Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone."- Regarding repaying evil, God wants us to stand up for everyone. When God sent his son to die for us, what did this action exhibit? This action exhibited love and showed who God really is. Let alone we can not comprehend his grace and love for us. Plus, he sent his son for all of us, for the strongest to the weakest. Anytime anyone regardless of their faith is being demeaned, it is our duty as Christians to intervene and end wrongdoing. Overall, there are boundaries to imposing Gods law on others. Simply live by this Guideline, would God approve of it. It sounds like you either do not have a relationship with Jesus or your walk is being attacked by false doctrines. Whatever the case, God knows and wants to help you. Seek God and decide now that you are going to live for him by faith no matter what. Have faith in him and draw closer, these questions that you have will be answered if you seek him.

 

[Taylor Barrett]

You couldnt be more wrong, brother. I sincerely believe every single word of The Word of God, The Holy Bible. Abortion is a sin. And I will not shy away from rebuking someone on this issue, or on any other issue. Abortion is a sin, but that doesn't mean we should make a law against it. God did not call us to impose His law on other people, He calls us to obey His Word and preach His word. He does not call us to impose His law, or any other law. If you want to impose morality on people, then why are you imposing part of God's laws and not others? That is absurdity. Impose all of them, or impose none of them. But He didn't call you to impose anything on anyone. He wants you to love Him, obey Him, and preach His Word. He did not call you to impose His law on other people. I am going to say this one more time... in case you missed it, brother: He did not call you to impose His law on other people. OK? Love Him, Obey Him, Preach His Word, Rebuke a brother who needs rebuking, stand firm on The Word of God, call sin SIN, and do not waiver. But do not try to impose morality on people. God Himself does not even do that. He wants people who willingly, voluntarily love Him and obey Him. Not by force. Never by force. Again, I am being redundant on purpose, He did not call you to impose things on other people. In fact, quite the opposite: "Do not resist an evil person", But Love God, obey God, and give your life in peaceful service to The Lord, allowing evil people to do evil things as Jesus does and as God does. Jesus did not impose laws on people, who are you to impose laws on people? I could go on and on.. but I am not sure you will get it. So I will just leave you with this. Abortion is a sin. It is not ok. And we need to tell people that abortion is a sin. and we need to discourage all forms of sin. But we are not called to impose God's law on other people, we are not called to outlaw sin. That is for God to do.

Love you brother

 

[Dillon Pullen]

Abortion is nothing but murdering a child who has no say so. Its sick that society today is accepting the theory of Abortion.

 

[Bendito]

I hope I can word this without starting a war. I personally would never want any pregnancy invloving my ***** to be aborted, I want to make that clear. But, in the end isnt it others peoples choice as to what they do? It is awful to even think about, but can Christians pick and chose battles? Is any one moral issue more important than another? What about people who do not believe in God at all? I dont see many Christians rallying in front of mosques in the Middle East.

In the end isnt this a situation where you just sit and pray?

Leviticus 18:21Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
21 “‘You are not to let any of your children be sacrificed to Molekh, thereby profaning the name of your God; I am Adonai.

Molekh or Moloch or Molech is a pagan god who demands child sacrifice....Every year in the United States To this time 955,669 babies have been sacrificed to this demon god. That's just in 2015
Yes you can claim its not child sacrifice if you want to, but...abortion is for the cause of making a person free of responsibility for another person, making it a sacrifice...It's inspired by the same pagan god who demands this type of sacrifice

 

[Bendito]

The thing I don't understand is how abortion can be scientifically backed up. Our society has learned not to judge based on race, sex, and now age is an issue. A human baby is less valuable than a human fetus. Does a heartbeat make you human? Does a higher sense of awareness make you human? What makes us human, is our human DNA. Once something/someone has it's own individual genetic identity, it has become a human (or animal, or whatever it may be)... So I personally don't understand the logic behind it- especially when people say that a fetus is just like a part of the woman's body- since when does the spleen get big, fall out of the mom and turn into a baby? How about any other part of the body?.. That doesn't even make sense...

Extremely lame I know, but what is the difference between quick reply and reply to thread..? I know I know! I am technologically impaired! lol

Yeah.LOL That is lame....The Word says 'the life of the body is in the blood Leviticus 17:11 That means the egg is human, the ***** is human and the fetus (baby) is human....What else could it be? A turtle? It's a human baby even before it has a heartbeat....

 

[Lanolin]

Abortion is demonic.
Was thinking on this today how mothers can be wicked and evil, more so than fathers because they choose to do this. And have to live with murdering their own flesh and blood after they did it for the rest of their life.

I know one person (through work) who did this and she suffered torments and turned to poison (alcohol) to numb the pain. I dont know how she is with God right now but I remember her telling me her so called boyfriend said 'have it out' or 'get rid of it' he was a willing accomplice too but she was the one who chose to do it. They are not together anymore, she went from one guy to another.

She did fall pregnant again at one point to someone else and miscarried the baby, now she is too old to have any. She didnt know she was with child till she had to go to hospital and they told her. After that she confided in me..and then she moved away to a different town. I think she was a lost soul..she said she wouldnt get married because of the trauma of her parents divorce. She also was anorexic and bulimic. One day we were walking around town and we walked into a church and she started confessing her sins, (at the time was semi serious, she was older than me) I do hope God found her in the end.

She told me tearfully 'dont be like me'.

 

[Lanolin]

Just to add she was living alone in a studio apartment and was terribly lonely which was why she latched on to me I suppose apart from her AA support group she didnt have many friends in town. She was considering owning a pet bird like a parrot just so she could have someone to talk to. But I dont think she was allowed.

I think she did show a repentant heart but her issues were major only God could handle. Obviously she couldnt talk to her parents, had a sister who was gay and not sure about the brother..they didnt get along.

She did say if she was rich she would have adopted a child, I think she wanted to atone for what she did. When she was sober which wasnt often I think it was painful for her to carry on. When people drink they dont really forget about stuff..she would tell me all her troubles. I dont drink alcohol but people that do seem to crave it and everytime they go out have to have one.

 

[Ivar]

If I was in authority I would not illegalize abortion but find effective ways to regulate and limit it.

 

[Sue D.]

There's a simple way to prevent abortions -- refrain from sexual intercourse -- that prevents pregnancy. It's Also true that women get raped and fathers do, sometimes force themselves on their daughters and a pregnancy takes place.

But under normal circumstances -- there are two willing adults.

It's Not like catching the flu or a cold.

So - young /older men -- act responsibly -- have respect for the woman -- whatever her age. Unless You are ready to accept responsibility of fatherhood in 9 months or less, Don't express yourself sexually with a female.

Abstinence is really easy. Simply Don't.

 

[SleepyEdwin]

You couldnt be more wrong, brother. I sincerely believe every single word of The Word of God, The Holy Bible. Abortion is a sin. And I will not shy away from rebuking someone on this issue, or on any other issue. Abortion is a sin, but that doesn't mean we should make a law against it. God did not call us to impose His law on other people, He calls us to obey His Word and preach His word. He does not call us to impose His law, or any other law. If you want to impose morality on people, then why are you imposing part of God's laws and not others? That is absurdity. Impose all of them, or impose none of them. But He didn't call you to impose anything on anyone. He wants you to love Him, obey Him, and preach His Word. He did not call you to impose His law on other people. I am going to say this one more time... in case you missed it, brother: He did not call you to impose His law on other people. OK? Love Him, Obey Him, Preach His Word, Rebuke a brother who needs rebuking, stand firm on The Word of God, call sin SIN, and do not waiver. But do not try to impose morality on people. God Himself does not even do that. He wants people who willingly, voluntarily love Him and obey Him. Not by force. Never by force. Again, I am being redundant on purpose, He did not call you to impose things on other people. In fact, quite the opposite: "Do not resist an evil person", But Love God, obey God, and give your life in peaceful service to The Lord, allowing evil people to do evil things as Jesus does and as God does. Jesus did not impose laws on people, who are you to impose laws on people? I could go on and on.. but I am not sure you will get it. So I will just leave you with this. Abortion is a sin. It is not ok. And we need to tell people that abortion is a sin. and we need to discourage all forms of sin. But we are not called to impose God's law on other people, we are not called to outlaw sin. That is for God to do.

Love you brother

Deuteronomy 28:20 The Lord shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.

If He promised to take a Hebrew's life for that man disobeyed God, what makes you think He wouldn't do the same to unbelievers? That's why we should warn them of what they're getting into, it doesn't matter if they believe or not. Then it'd be up to them to see if they wanna listen to God or just ignore Him.

Proverbs 24:23-25
23 These things also belong to the wise. It is not good to have respect of persons in judgment.
24 He that saith unto the wicked, Thou art righteous; him shall the people curse, nations shall abhor him:
25 But to them that rebuke him shall be delight, and a good blessing shall come upon them.

Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

Philippians 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

How could we be light if we tell them nothing? We should ask of them to take our advice into consideration! If they still refused, then our work was done, but that doesn't mean we should wait patiently till they approve abortions. We should even let journalists hear us speaking in favor of life! Not doing anything against abortion is like telling God that His Son Jesus could have been aborted if Mary would have agreed upon that. Then where would our only hope of salvation have gone in such a terrible scenario? Did you forget that Eve was told that a seed would come to save us from our fallen state? If she had refused to bear children, then humanity would have ceased to exist and both Adam and Eve would have been cast to hell without hesitation. Bearing a baby should be done in remembrance of that Glorious Day when Our Savior was born, thus fulfilling prophecies and leading us to God the Father through Him!

1 Timothy 2:13-15
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Emphasis and italic are mine, obviously. And nope, it doesn't say anything about being saved by aborting for any motive. :happy:

So we men do have something to say concerning women that might bear children! We should not let women get deceived by winds of doctrine! And recall what the Apostle Paul told Timothy earlier in that chapter

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Probably a rebuke might not work on worldly people, but they still need to learn the truth! Who knows if by letting them hear what God has to tell them about abortion, some of them might get saved!

It's impossible or it seems to be impossible to get approved laws that only reflect Our God's Will. Even so Paul also told us that we should pray for the authorities! We still can go and see if we might get a law approved that respects the Lord's Will. It doesn't matter if we get just one at a time, we must influence them as much as possible just as the world tries to do it (the wrong way, of course).

So - young /older men -- act responsibly -- have respect for the woman -- whatever her age. Unless You are ready to accept responsibility of fatherhood in 9 months or less, Don't express yourself sexually with a female.

Abstinence is really easy. Simply Don't.

I wish you were right about this, but people in their fallen state won't agree with you... unless they have gone through some harsh experience before...

So I guess it'd be better to tell them that if a man and a woman truly love each other, they should marry and have as much sex as they need to. At least it'd be more realistic than thinking they really want to observe any sort of abstinence, including tobacco and alcohol and so on.

If I was in authority I would not illegalize abortion but find effective ways to regulate and limit it.

Now I'm GLAD to know that you're not an authority for you'd have just sold out your faith in no time by justifying abortion.