Abortion

[Sue D.]

@SleepyEdwin -- ya know there are Lots of good, moral people who Need to be encouraged to refrain from sex until they are married.
You make it sound like non-believers are horrible heathen people who don't care about morality. And you're putting born-again believers up on some sort of pedestal. That those 'beneath' us are the only ones who probably have to go through some horrific experience to appreciate moral values such as abstaining from sex.

You sound like you don't have a very high respect for women.

You might not be aware of it -- but there are Lots of non-believing women with high moral standards.

The subject of abstaining from tobacco and alcohol was included at the very last. You're putting those two in the same category as having sex. Well this later activity is a more serious area of abstinence.

 

[B-A-C]

You make it sound like non-believers are horrible heathen people who don't care about morality. And you're putting born-again believers up on some sort of pedestal. That those 'beneath' us are the only ones who probably have to go through some horrific experience to appreciate moral values such as abstaining from sex.

You sound like you don't have a very high respect for women.

You might not be aware of it -- but there are Lots of non-believing women with high moral standards.

The subject of abstaining from tobacco and alcohol was included at the very last. You're putting those two in the same category as having sex. Well this later activity is a more serious area of abstinence.

Do you think "good morality" will make any difference if you aren't a believer? Do you think they will make it to heaven by virtue of their "good moral standards"? Do you think Jesus isn't required?
I don't know if unbelievers are all "horrible", but they are definitely all "heathen" and won't end up anywhere but the lake of fire, regardless of how their morals might be.

 

[Sue D.]

You Do realize , maybe Not, that the good moral people are some of the hardest people To win to Christ because they Are doing all the good things in their communities -- they help out at the locate food pantry -- they volunteer for various organizations that are Good organizations. And it's hard for them to see what they're doing Wrong. Because , in reality, they Are living pretty good lives.

Well -- I hope your interpersonal interactions with those who you categorize as 'heathen' aren't in turn -- turned Off by your attitude towards them.

I Do understand what you're saying, but it's your method of delivery that could be improved. Just suggesting.

 

[SleepyEdwin]

You Do realize , maybe Not, that the good moral people are some of the hardest people To win to Christ because they Are doing all the good things in their communities -- they help out at the locate food pantry -- they volunteer for various organizations that are Good organizations. And it's hard for them to see what they're doing Wrong. Because , in reality, they Are living pretty good lives.

Well -- I hope your interpersonal interactions with those who you categorize as 'heathen' aren't in turn -- turned Off by your attitude towards them.

I Do understand what you're saying, but it's your method of delivery that could be improved. Just suggesting.

It's not a matter of putting anybody on a pedestal. It's about the difference that makes the Blood of Christ on us the believers. We surely struggle to become the kind of people God wants us to be, but then heathen don't even care about that.

I don't and won't say women are worse or better than men because nobody is good by nature according to God's Word. What I'm saying is that I've met so called good women that were just pretending to be good. You see, heathen men don't really care if some people know they're players, it's become some sort of self esteem issue. Heathen women tend to hide their indiscretions (forever if that were possible). That was my point there. And Nope, I'm not endorsing players at all here.

Well, the rich guy the Lord met in Israel also said he did a lot of good stuff but was not capable of stop being a millionaire. In his case his idol was mammon or his riches, in those volunteers' case their idol would be their own good deeds (a false sense of salvation through works) or even themselves! (They just pretend to think they're self righteous and that didn't help the pharisees at all.) You gotta understand that you should accept their good works are just some humanistic excuse to tell others they don't need any god. You might know that already, but you haven't accepted it as far as we can see here. Their good works are just replacements for their bad deeds. Actually there have been some people that seemed to be excessively humanitarian and compassionate, but were petty criminals that even abused of people or even hurt them severely. Some of them even were so called religious people that are now facing many accusations for sexual abuse and rape in the USA. We gotta be careful and never trust those "good people" that are still heathen.

I won't ever say we can't improve our method to deliver the Gospel to any given person, still, we usually forget that is it NOT our duty to convince the heathen of sin but the Holy Spirit's. Since they have never lost their free will, they can still say no to Him and even keep denying their need of the Lord for the rest of their lives. So those that at some point have blamed yourselves for not being able to help them, stop worrying about that. Just keep preaching the Gospel and patiently wait to see if they ever change their minds. From the Lord's viewpoint it's more important to not efficiently but effectively educate heathen and especially new believers, it's a matter of quality over quantity, guys!

Concerning sex, tobacco and alcohol, since any or all of them can become a person's idols, then yes, any of them is as bad as the others. Try to teach them that some of them aren't that bad, and you're fooling them and even yourself! Of course, I doubt that after I have mentioned this, you won't recall why all idols and even any kind of sin is as bad as any other.

 

[Sue D.]

@SleepyEdwin -- that which is irritating to Me, is your using the term 'heathen' to describe unsaved people. Because That particular term has very negative implications. Makes it sound like 'saved' people are So much better than 'those Heathens'.

And you don't think Men are the Same Way?! As a Woman --I've come across some real 'jerks' of Men. ya know something -- there Are married men who hit on other married women and don't really Care if they're married or Not.

And I Know its' your choice to use the term 'heathen' but - if you choose to post more -- could you just use the word saved or lost.

I tell ya what -- Please don't come knocking at My door to do your evangelizing. I'm very much a born-again believer / a Woman. And I've actually Sinned since becoming a believer.

There Are people who do Good things just because they Want to do Good things Even though they are HEATHEN.

 

[B-A-C]

I Do understand what you're saying, but it's your method of delivery that could be improved. Just suggesting.

I hear this argument frequently. Sometimes you are right, people want to hear God loves them. But it has been my experience.. that if "God loves me", then why are you even bothering me about this. "I'm a good person". (I don't need Jesus).
To tell you the truth, I have had a lot more success telling it like it is. People know when you are "candy coating" things and "smoothing over" the truth. Ahhh... it's not so bad, God loves you anyway. What's the worst that can happen?
(Burning for eternity in the lake of fire, that's what)
Maybe God puts different personalities in us for a reason, maybe your way works with the people you meet. Praise God if that is the case.

Even "good people" have sinned, at least once in their lives.
Rom 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

The thing is, even if you have only sinned once if your life ( and who can honestly say that? )...
Jas 2:10; For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

If you've ever sinned one single time in your life.... (That's everybody)... you need Jesus.
Another thing I have discovered along the way, even people who think and say they are "good people", are usually just putting up a front. When you really get to know them, they aren't nearly as perfect as they would like you to think.
Sometimes being frank, forward, and honest with them is the best way. Maybe my way works with people I meet. Praise God for that also.

Gal 1:10; For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ.

 

[Sue D.]

It's not so much What you're sharing -- but do you Really think that people want to be referred to as 'you heathen'. No.

So -- to You -- Everyone is putting on some sort of 'front'. Maybe You need to rethink your opinion of other people. Just saying.

 

[Brother-Paul]

This is a very important message, and very well put Chad.

We have a responsibility to share the Truth in God's Word, the world is veiled from the Truth by their sins, if we do not share the message who will?

God Bless you.

 

[SleepyEdwin]

Well, I'm free to call unbelievers heathen because even the Lord Himself views them as such. Why? Because they don't acknowledge Him as their God. So heathen or pagan as defined by Christians would mean those that live ungodly lives for they reject Him. Doing good works are no excuse to say they're good people. We need God's definition of goodness, not men's. Galatians 1:10 is a good proof of biblical doctrine. Whenever you defend their "goodness" knowing they're pagan, you're defending their rejection of Christ as well. Plus as a couple of us already mentioned here, their good deeds are just a front.

You see, modern women dislike the fact that the Bible actually teaches us that women should not rule over men. Honestly, many women like to rule over us men. If we could ask the Apostle Paul about that, he would certainly dislike it. In my humble opinion, we should do what Paul asked us all to do as an Apostle that give up his own life for Christ. Even so I'm not against finding my own wife and discuss with her any kind of important topic that would matter to both of us, for she would have her own right to build her own opinion regarding anything. I would listen to her and consider if the next step is to do what I had planned, what she suggested or do something inbetween or look for another way to solve any issue. Then I would let her know what I would do and explain to her why I made that decision. Of course, most women nowadays would hate me for proposing such a course of action, even if I try to stay as close to the Word as possible. Am I disregarding a woman's value? Nope, never ever! I would not talk to anybody if I did not care about their opinion.

What makes it strange is that Sue D. seems to be quite bothered with my stand, but the actual reason why she protests still seems to be unclear. It does not seem that it is related to what I actually said but to something she have not told me ever; not that she ever needs to do that. Be sure that I do not want to smash anybody here, but I do know how not few females in my country and a few I have contacted overseas think and behave. They are the basis for my rejection of their bad attitudes and the way some of them do fall after listening to fake doctrines. The wind of doctrine changes and you can see them following them without asking themselves if that makes any sense for they had no spiritual knowledge as they pretended to have. That saddens me whenever I recall it.

I do not remember if I already said this but I will say it here then. We men should not fail our women when they are pregnant so they would not ever consider the possibility of aborting the baby. We need to protect them but not necessarily from physical harm but spiritual one. The enemy will try to convince them of doubting or alledging their bodies belong to themselves; believers' bodies belong to God, actually, all human bodies belong to Him for He created them in the first place. Plus who really wants to spill blood on their hands? Only those that are extremely troubled or are listening to worldly doctrines like feminism or communism or atheism would do that and still dare to assert it is fine...

Do not tell me, guys, that feminism and communism and atheism are not behind this because you know very well they have always been there since they were invented. In countries like Spain that is nowadays full of those currents, they do strive for separations, divorce, abortion and so on. Some would also include ecology in that list. I just hope they will not become pagans that worship nature as well.

 

[Sue D.]

I would agree -- the feminist movement has been horrible for the world of marriage.

I simply do NOT like the term 'Heathen'. It sounds totally barbaric.

And I actually appreciate your second paragraph -- the communication between husbands and wives. Valuing their opinions. Coming to an understanding between both of them.

Your bio information says you're from San Jose which is in California. I'm in Texas.

So you're basing your attitude towards women on only a few you've known.

You're stating that you Are married Or how you'd respond to your wife If you were actually married.

And, yes, women Do need to be protected by men -- even though That is Not a popular position,.

 

[Brother-Paul]

John 13:34-35 (NKJV)
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
35 By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

 

[Sue D.]

The people who abort babies are killing unborn children -- helpless 'yet to be born' innocent babies. A baby has to be old enough to understand right from wrong and able to make a decision on their own in order to be saved.

Do you really believe that God told you that?

And I Do believe that those innocent babies who Are aborted are in heaven with their loving Heavenly Father.

 

[Yib2me]

The people who abort babies are killing unborn children -- helpless 'yet to be born' innocent babies. A baby has to be old enough to understand right from wrong and able to make a decision on their own in order to be saved.

Do you really believe that God told you that?

And I Do believe that those innocent babies who Are aborted are in heaven with their loving Heavenly Father.

When were they born of water and Spirit?

The offspring of the children of the devil are the children of the devils.

The children of the devil do not produce children of God
As their offspring.

 

[Brother-Paul]

What is ironic about the devils of this world who abort their children they're not aborting the children of God they are aborting the children of the devil that is what God said to me.

So I don't care if the devils abort their children.

I say praise the Lord
in Spirit and Truth.

Thank you God for your lake of fire.

Ermmm, my heart is troubled, if that is what God said to you, I feel you are listening to the devil or you need a spiritual hearing aid.

Every child is God's creation, starting in a woman's womb, just because the man and woman are lost souls and had sex outside marriage, doesn't mean the child in the womb is not God's creation. We are all born into sin.

Abortion is killing a child, we would not know the future of the child from birth onwards, but God does. The child may give its life to the Lord and become a great preacher, other missionary etc etc.... and become a saved Child of God through His Son.

Who is guilty for the death of the child in the woman's womb, the woman, the theatre staff who carry it out, the doctors who did the referral, clinics, nurses, etc, etc.

All are guilty of killing a child, they all have blood on their hands one way or another, they are all guilty of killing God's creation.

Thou shalt not kill.

 

[Brother-Paul]

When were they born of water and Spirit?

The offspring of the children of the devil are the children of the devils.

The children of the devil do not produce children of God
As their offspring.

Children of the devil are unsaved souls, unbelieving people.

Jesus said, if God is not your father then the devil is, if the devil is your father then you are children of the devil.

But they can still be saved.

There is not one person on this earth who is evil, there are millions that have evil within, but anyone and everyone has the same option in life, and anyone or everyone can come to the Lord, repent, be baptised and be saved.

Peace be with you.

 

[Brother-Paul]

When were they born of water and Spirit?

The offspring of the children of the devil are the children of the devils.

The children of the devil do not produce children of God
As their offspring.

I feel the need to repeat what I said above but add a little more which may rub salt for some...

Children of the devil are unsaved souls, unbelieving people.

Jesus said, if God is not your father then the devil is, if the devil is your father then you are children of the devil.

But they can still be saved.

There is not one person on this earth who is evil, there are millions that have evil within, but anyone and everyone has the same option in life, and anyone or everyone can come to the Lord, repent, be baptised and be saved.

There is not one person on this earth that is evil and there never has been, this includes Hitler and many like him, it includes Judas, Jihadis, Isis, and a long list of others I could name. I feel I have included more than enough to get the point over. No one is or has ever been evil, it is the evil within them that causes the terrible things in this world. Remember this scripture...

Luke 22:3 (NKJV)
3 Then satan entered Judas, surnamed Iscariot, who was numbered among the twelve.

Evil enters a person, this is why many times a person can look or seem like a reasonable person, looks deceive, then satan entered Judas. I am sure Judas was probably a reasonable person to look at, don't forget Jesus called him to follow him, although Jesus probably knew Judas would betray him he still allowed him to be treasurer for a period. Judas was as we know tempted with the money in his care, but then, 'satan entered Judas!' we know the rest. That is when EVIL things happen,

Peace be with you.

 

[Yib2me]

Ermmm, my heart is troubled, if that is what God said to you, I feel you are listening to the devil or you need a spiritual hearing aid.

If that is what God said to me then I would not be listening to the devil I would be listening to God.

 

[Brother-Paul]

If that is what God said to me then I would not be listening to the devil I would be listening to God.

Dear sister, it is easy to feel God has told us something, or to misinterpret scripture, but God will only ever say something to us which is 100% backed up by scripture.

I apologise the the hearing aid comment, I went back to remove that but it was to late to edit. I ask your forgiveness for that comment.

Jesus is Lord to the Glory of God the Father.

Bless you.

 

[Yib2me]

Every child is God's creation, starting in a woman's womb, just because the man and woman are lost souls and had sex outside marriage, doesn't mean the child in the womb is not God's creation. We are all born into sin.

Matthew 13

“Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

 

[Yib2me]

There is not one person on this earth who is evil

Luke 6:45 | View whole chapter A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.