We are not Like Jesus !!!

[Dave M]

I found this to be informative and easy to understand of what born again is

Ephesians 2:8-9 states, "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." When one is saved, he/she has been born again, spiritually renewed, and is now a child of God by right of new birth. Trusting in Jesus Christ, the One who paid the penalty of sin when He died on the cross, is the means to be "born again." "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation: the old has gone, the new has come!" (2 Corinthians 5:17).

What does it mean to be a born again Christian?

 

[Sue D.]

If I could interject a thought -- it's been said that the book of Acts is a transitional book. Jesus Christ had ascended back into heaven -- the Holy Spirit could Not come until He had gone back up. The cross had only 'just happened' The disciples were told to wait until the Day of Pentecost. So the Holy Spirit was just then 'coming' to the disciples.

We don't 'ask for more of Jesus' -- a person either accepts Jesus Christ as personal Savior or they don't. Then the Holy Spirit comes to indwell the person and as a result -- a person's life Will demonstrate the fruits of the Spirit as a result Of. If a person's life does Not reflect those fruits, then he needs to take another look at his life and those who are around him and observe the lack Of those fruits would have reason to be concerned about his actual salvation. Because "by their fruits they will be known".

The problem appears to be that of 'easy-believism'. A person 'prays a prayer' after having walked an aisle at church or at camp or a revival meeting. Maybe no one even takes more than a moment to talk with the person. Maybe they are led in a group prayer and given a booklet to read about their new life in Christ. Those around him / her expect to see a change. When no change is seen a person could say, what's the point. And others who observe him / her observe them being 'churchie' when needed and still doing/ acting as they always Had.

And there Are lots of really good people in this world. Very 'lost' and very good moral, ethical people. People don't have to be Bad people to need Christ's salvation. People Do need to see their personal need For a Savior. So -- a person observes someone doing all the right things, going to church all the time, and ask -- are they Really saved or Not? How can 'we' Really know for sure? Well -- take time to get to know them. Share your testimony with them, invite them to share their's with You.

People tend to Assume that just because someone knows the church vocabulary -- can 'talk the talk' that they Must be 'saved'. But no one has ever questioned them. There was an older couple -- the wife was a believer but she felt led to have her and her husband move to a different church. As a result, the new pastor of the new church, asked them about their salvation. Come to find out, her husband never Had accepted Christ as personal Savior. So, this new pastor was able to lead him to the Lord. Then they went back to the other home church.

How many churches practice discipleship of new believers. Practice accountability.

 

[Sue D.]

I have a "better" question...
Are God, Jesus, and the Holy spirit "one" or not?

Those three are the Godhead -- co-equal -- God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son, and the Holy Spirit. All three have different jobs -- salvation is possible only through the workings of all three. Like the egg -- the shell, yoke, egg white. All are essential and all have different jobs within the egg.

 

[Curtis]

It is impossible for anyone to see God without seeing Jesus, because Jesus is God's body!!

Heb 1:3 He is the sole expression of the glory of God [the Light-being, the out-raying or radiance of the divine], and He is the perfect imprint and very image of [God's] nature, upholding and maintaining and guiding and propelling the universe by His mighty word of power. When He had by offering Himself accomplished our cleansing of sins and riddance of guilt, He sat down at the right hand of the divine Majesty on high, (AMP)

Col 2:9 For in Him the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature]. (AMP)

 

[Joefizz]

Those three are the Godhead -- co-equal -- God the Father, Jesus Christ His Son, and the Holy Spirit. All three have different jobs -- salvation is possible only through the workings of all three. Like the egg -- the shell, yoke, egg white. All are essential and all have different jobs within the egg.

Well at least "you" answered, the person I asked the question to is rather quiet....

 

[Curtis]

Jesus was "born of the Spirit" in his birth, but he did not do any miracles until after the Holy Spirit came upon to empower him for his ministry. Being born of the Spirit, and being baptized of the Spirit are two different things.

In the new birth the Holy Spirit dwells within a person, but with the baptism of the Spirit he comes upon that person.

 

[Sue D.]

Curtis -- don't those things happen at the same time? Being born of the Spirit and the baptism Of. Baptism being the total immersion of the Holy Spirit into the believers' soul. Once the Holy Spirit Does come to indwell -- our 'spiritual' tanks vary in the amount of being filled. The more a believer is in the Word and praying -- the fuller his tank will be.

There have been times when, as I've been reading God's Word, that something 'new' has been impressed upon me. It's a heart-felt 'time' --it's been the Holy Spirit teaching me specifically in a certain area of my life. And I Also think that some people are more emotional than others. Well --I Know some are. When we used to have 'popcorn' testimony time in church. There were some women who would Always cry / get very teari-eyed over almost Anything they were sharing. I'm the other extreme. You'd hardly know I've got vocal chords or tears. As some people read God's Word , they Do become emotional about it. Maybe it's their background. A great deal to be thankful for having been saved 'out of'.

Jesus Christ was not like the ordinary person. He was / is the Son of God.

Jesus Christ did things -- here on earth -- as an example for us to follow. When we accept Christ -- it's an inner experience that we Need to be sharing in an outward way so that others can see that we Now identify with Jesus Christ. That would be the start of our 'ministry' here on earth.

God is Spirit -- He's omnipresent -- Jesus Christ was God incarnate while on earth. Jesus Christ was born into the Jewish world -- a man -- Son of God. John 10:30 "I and My Father are One."

 

[At Peace]

I have a "better" question...
Are God, Jesus, and the Holy spirit "one" or not?

Yes. they are One.
The Word was with God and the Word was God.
The Word was made flesh, Jesus.
God is a Spirit, and gives of His Spirit as He sees fit.

This doesn't excuse you from answering my question.

 

[Joefizz]

Yes. they are One.
The Word was with God and the Word was God.
The Word was made flesh, Jesus.
God is a Spirit, and gives of His Spirit as He sees fit.

This doesn't excuse you from answering my question.

Basically you just answered your own question because just why would you ask for that which you already have in your scenario?
In accepting Jesus you accept the Holy spirit why would you need to ask for the spirit when you have the spirit there after?
Asking for wisdom or guidance from the Holy spirit makes sense but asking for the spirit that you already have is like asking for money from someone that you already were given money from in the same day.

 

[Curtis]

Curtis -- don't those things happen at the same time? Being born of the Spirit and the baptism Of. Baptism being the total immersion of the Holy Spirit into the believers' soul. Once the Holy Spirit Does come to indwell -- our 'spiritual' tanks vary in the amount of being filled. The more a believer is in the Word and praying -- the fuller his tank will be.

There have been times when, as I've been reading God's Word, that something 'new' has been impressed upon me. It's a heart-felt 'time' --it's been the Holy Spirit teaching me specifically in a certain area of my life. And I Also think that some people are more emotional than others. Well --I Know some are. When we used to have 'popcorn' testimony time in church. There were some women who would Always cry / get very teari-eyed over almost Anything they were sharing. I'm the other extreme. You'd hardly know I've got vocal chords or tears. As some people read God's Word , they Do become emotional about it. Maybe it's their background. A great deal to be thankful for having been saved 'out of'.

Jesus Christ was not like the ordinary person. He was / is the Son of God.

Jesus Christ did things -- here on earth -- as an example for us to follow. When we accept Christ -- it's an inner experience that we Need to be sharing in an outward way so that others can see that we Now identify with Jesus Christ. That would be the start of our 'ministry' here on earth.

God is Spirit -- He's omnipresent -- Jesus Christ was God incarnate while on earth. Jesus Christ was born into the Jewish world -- a man -- Son of God. John 10:30 "I and My Father are One."

Jesus spoke many times about the Holy Spirit, and how he would operate in a believer, and upon the believer.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Here Jesus told his followers that the Holy Spirit would "dwell inside the believer" This is exactly what happens when a person is born again.

Luke 24:49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

This is not the new birth, but an empowering a believer for ministry work. This is exactly why the 120 in the upper room were waiting for.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Here again, the Holy Spirit coming upon a believer is to give them the power to accomplish their work God had called them to. Jesus did not do any miracles until after years later when he was baptized by John, and Holy Spirit coming upon him to anoint Jesus for his ministry..

1Cor 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
1Cor 12:8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
1Cor 12:9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
1Cor 12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

The purpose for the Holy Spirit being upon a person is so these gifts of the Holy Spirit to profit others as the Spirit wills. To be anointed when the Holy Spirit is upon a person is not for their own benefit, but for the benefit of others.

Jesus said.....

Luke 4:18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed,

The next verse is what every born again person has when they are "born of the Spirit" (Born again) The fruit of the Spirit is for that persons own benefit.

Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Being born of the Spirit, and the Holy Spirit coming upon a person for ministry are two different things, that happen at different times.
If we do not know, and understand these things then we will miss out on all the Lord has for us. You can not believe in something you don't know, and can not experience that what you don't believe.

 

[At Peace]

Basically you just answered your own question because just why would you ask for that which you already have in your scenario?
In accepting Jesus you accept the Holy spirit why would you need to ask for the spirit when you have the spirit there after?
Asking for wisdom or guidance from the Holy spirit makes sense but asking for the spirit that you already have is like asking for money from someone that you already were given money from in the same day.

Plenty of haters out there "accept" that Jesus lived...and died, 2000 years ago.
Do they have the gift of the Holy Spirit?
Ananias and Sapphira "accepted" Jesus, but died for their greed. (Acts 5)
Did they have the gift of the Holy Spirit?
How about Simon of Samaria? (Acts 8)
How about the twelve at Ephesus? (Acts 19)

Receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit is predicated on our "turn from" sin...repentance.
Plenty of sinners accept the truth of Christ, but without turning from sin are not heard by God. (John 9:31)
The truly repentant illustrate their faith by asking God, and being heard, for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
It is a validation of the truth of their repentance from sin.

 

[At Peace]

No we can never (sic) be fully like Christ because we are born with a curse to our flesh he Jesus was not. He Jesus gave us the power to over come the curse so we now can become more like Christ close but no cigar.

It is written..."Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

 

[Sue D.]

It is written..."Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

It is written..."Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)

I'm Trying to respond back to Dave M's comment in #72 -- we can never be fully like Christ because He's God's Son -- Deity -- and we are only human beings.

 

[Sue D.]

Plenty of haters out there "accept" that Jesus lived...and died, 2000 years ago.
Do they have the gift of the Holy Spirit?
Ananias and Sapphira "accepted" Jesus, but died for their greed. (Acts 5)
Did they have the gift of the Holy Spirit?
How about Simon of Samaria? (Acts 8)
How about the twelve at Ephesus? (Acts 19)

Receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit is predicated on our "turn from" sin...repentance.
Plenty of sinners accept the truth of Christ, but without turning from sin are not heard by God. (John 9:31)
The truly repentant illustrate their faith by asking God, and being heard, for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
It is a validation of the truth of their repentance from sin.

The Holy Spirit comes to indwell each person when they accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior. And they will exhibit Fruits of the Spirit -- and they will Also receive at least one spiritual gift. But the Holy Spirit gives gifts to us as He sees fit. These gifts are to be used within the church body to help the church run smoother as a body of believers.

 

[At Peace]

I'm Trying to respond back to Dave M's comment in #72 -- we can never be fully like Christ because He's God's Son -- Deity -- and we are only human beings.

You think that Jesus wasn't "... touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (Heb 4:15)?
Jesus was a human being, just like you.
We can be exactly like Jesus.
Faithful, gracious, forgiving, pure of heart, thankful, charitable, in contact with and obedient to OUR Father in all things

BTW, if we are reborn of God's seed aren't we also children of God?

 

[At Peace]

The Holy Spirit comes to indwell each person when they accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior.

Got a scripture for that?
I have..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Your POV didn't include repentance from sin or being cleansed from past sin by the blood of Christ.

And they will exhibit Fruits of the Spirit -- and they will Also receive at least one spiritual gift. But the Holy Spirit gives gifts to us as He sees fit. These gifts are to be used within the church body to help the church run smoother as a body of believers.

Whose fruit is exhibited if one commits sin?

 

[Sue D.]

Got a scripture for that?
I have..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Your POV didn't include repentance from sin or being cleansed from past sin by the blood of Christ.


Whose fruit is exhibited if one commits sin?

One passage is Ephesians 4:30 "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. "

Back up to Ephesians 1:13 :....... Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteering our inheritance...."

Back up to #75 -- Jesus Christ -- was God incarnate -- while on this earth for those 33 yrs. And, yes, He was human experiencing everything just like we did. He was born of a virgin so He could be both 100 man and 100 deity. When He was tempted by satan -- He responded back with Scripture. He chose to be like Us -- we can't be entire like Him because we're Not deity.

The fruits of the Spirit -- Galatians 5:22 "....love,joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control."

A person doesn't loose fruit when a sin is committed. Maybe your last comment Should be '"whose fruit is exhibited WHEN one commits a sin."'.

The verse you included in Acts 2 -- it suggests that a person's salvation is reliant upon their being repentant and then baptised and then the Holy Spirit will come to indwell them."
Well -- repentance Is needed. But since the theif on the cross didn't have a chance To be baptized and he was told by Jesus Christ that that very day He would be in Paradise with Him. It would appear that baptizm is Not required as part Of salvation. And what about people who do accept Christ -- maybe on their death bed and can't be baptized. Or any number of other circumstances where a person Does accept Christ as personal Savior, but can't be baptized for a while. I know of a young lady -- a Jr. higher who was saved at VBS during her visits with her grandparents. She wanted to be baptized -- her parents were of another belief system that believed in infant sprinkling. They said No to her wish to be baptized as a believer. Shortly after that they moved away from the influence of the grandparents. She was told that when she turned 18 -- if she still wanted to be baptized it would be her decision. So -- is not completely saved until she turns 18?

1 Corinthians 15: 1-3 or so ".....By this Gospel you are saved..... that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that H was buried, that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures......."

Romans 10:9 - 10 "That if you confess with your mouth, the Lord Jesus, Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."

Nothing in those verses saying that baptism is part of salvation.

And, yes, baptism Is important. It is meant to be a public event -- baptism by immersion. Showing by that activity what has already taken place in your heart. That which you truly believe.

Being cleansed from past sins by the blood of Christ, yes. But the negative consequences of past sins have to be lived with. If you've been out driving drunk and have a wreck and loose a limb or possibly kill another person. Your limb will still be gone even when you're a believer and the person killed won't come back to life. And you'll still be service jail or prison time for the life you were responsible for Because of your past drunk driving.

Some years ago there was a middle-aged couple who were not believers. The wife was reached by some women and accepted Christ -- the husband had been a drunk -- a mean one -- she was urged to leave him for her personal safety. She refused to. She felt her place was to stay with him. Well -- one day he came back home drunk and got angry at her for something. He ended up killing her. He was arrested, in jail and finally sobered up. Pastor came to talk with him. The man was horrified to learn what he'd done in his drunkness. The pastor was able to lead him to the Lord. He actually became active in a prison ministry. Realized that eventually he would be reunited with his wife in heaven.

 

[Bendito]

At this point, allow me to put this question forward. Jesus has the nature of God. The Father put all things into His hands...Jesus put that same authority into our hands....Everything Jesus has belongs to us as well. How are we not like Him? We have been given Gods very DNA, His very nature to grow into, the same authority, the same creative power in our words...How are we not like Jesus?
If we are not like Jesus then, my friends, we'd better get to it. We imitate Him to learn to be like Him.

 

[Dave M]

At this point, allow me to put this question forward. Jesus has the nature of God. The Father put all things into His hands...Jesus put that same authority into our hands....Everything Jesus has belongs to us as well. How are we not like Him? We have been given Gods very DNA, His very nature to grow into, the same authority, the same creative power in our words...How are we not like Jesus?
If we are not like Jesus then, my friends, we'd better get to it. We imitate Him to learn to be like Him.

My brother I here you and applaud your loving heart !! my point was to show he was born with out a sin nature, we on the other hand are born with a sin nature. thats all I hope all is well with you Bendito it always good to see you on here

 

[Joefizz]

Plenty of haters out there "accept" that Jesus lived...and died, 2000 years ago.
Do they have the gift of the Holy Spirit?
Ananias and Sapphira "accepted" Jesus, but died for their greed. (Acts 5)
Did they have the gift of the Holy Spirit?
How about Simon of Samaria? (Acts 8)
How about the twelve at Ephesus? (Acts 19)

Receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit is predicated on our "turn from" sin...repentance.
Plenty of sinners accept the truth of Christ, but without turning from sin are not heard by God. (John 9:31)
The truly repentant illustrate their faith by asking God, and being heard, for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
It is a validation of the truth of their repentance from sin.

More "inaccuracies"...
First off "salvation" and "receiving" the Holy spirit is not just about as you say "accepting Jesus's death" because there is no "humbling" of one's self or "sincerity" involved in that anyone can "claim" to know Jesus as well it happens all the time year round.
As I've said before to accept "wholly" Jesus and his works is to believe in his "death" for our sins but also his "resurrection" and "ascension" when one can accept "all 3"(well what do you know 3 just like 3 crosses and 3 entities) for anyone can "accept" anyone's death but to "believe" that Jesus "rose from the dead" and "ascended from earth and is still alive" takes a whole lot "MORE" a person can proclaim all day that they have accepted Jesus but some things "show" when one does, for as it is written "ye shall know them by their fruits" well when one accepts Christ there is "change" if one "stays the same" then they clearly haven't accepted Christ for example a man whom has cussed since his youth might stop cursing, a harlot woman may think to have a "real relationship", a person who has not thought of others may start to gradually helps others.
Accepting Jesus and the Holy spirit "changes everything", behaviour, perspective, one''s beliefs and one's heart and mind.(I'm at work, will answer the rest later if you are still here that is "At peace")