"The wages of sin is death" - not 'Eternal Death'.

[Michael BoryAlis]

The phrase 'Eternal Death' is a fabrication of Babylon.
If the wages of sin was eternal death, Jesus has not yet paid the price for our sin.

Once you move beyond the simplicity of it, it gets complicated.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

The phrase 'Eternal Death' is a fabrication of Babylon.
If the wages of sin was eternal death, Jesus has not yet paid the price for our sin.

Once you move beyond the simplicity of it, it gets complicated.

I'm not sure I fully understand what you are trying to say. Please elaborate.

 

[Michael BoryAlis]

I'm not sure I fully understand what you are trying to say. Please elaborate.

Phrases like "forever and ever" and "eternal punishment" are horrific translations of the greek, and have nothing to do with the "Restoration of ALL THINGS", which is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant (Acts 3:19-26, Gal 3:8, etc).

There is NOT ONE verse in the Bible that states a 'non-believer' cannot "Call upon the Lord" after physical death.
Not One.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Phrases like "forever and ever" and "eternal punishment" are horrific translations of the greek, and have nothing to do with the "Restoration of ALL THINGS", which is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant (Acts 3:19-26, Gal 3:8, etc).

There is NOT ONE verse in the Bible that states a 'non-believer' cannot "Call upon the Lord" after physical death.
Not One.

What is your understanding of the "Restoration of ALL THINGS" "?

Does that connect for you to Romans 8:28 "All things work for good for those who love the Lord, who are called according to His purpose"? If so, how?

And does the " "Restoration of ALL THINGS" for you also relate to the fallen angels? Will they be restored to their former glory?

 

[Michael BoryAlis]

What is your understanding of the "Restoration of ALL THINGS" "?

Jesus making ALL THINGS NEW - Rev 21:5

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Jesus making ALL THINGS NEW - Rev 21:5
I shall draw ALL MEN unto me - John 12:32
ALL shall know me - Heb 8:11
etc

Does that connect for you to Romans 8:28 "All things work for good for those who love the Lord, who are called according to His purpose"? If so, how?

And does the " "Restoration of ALL THINGS" for you also relate to the fallen angels? Will they be restored to their former glory?

 

[Michael BoryAlis]

I shall draw ALL MEN unto me - John 12:32

ALL shall know me - Heb 8:11
EVERY knee shall bow and tongue confess Jesus is Lord - Phil 2:11
etc

 

[Michael BoryAlis]

Does that connect for you to Romans 8:28 "All things work for good for those who love the Lord, who are called according to His purpose"? If so, how?

And does the " "Restoration of ALL THINGS" for you also relate to the fallen angels? Will they be restored to their former glory?

The whole Bible fits together as the One Perfect Oracle that it is, if properly translated with the spiritual interpretation.

 

[Gregoryp]

I shall draw ALL MEN unto me - John 12:32

ALL shall know me - Heb 8:11
EVERY knee shall bow and tongue confess Jesus is Lord - Phil 2:11
etc

They may very well confess he is Lord and actually exists, however this will not give them the right to enter paradise. Its hades for them . Being born again is not as simple as it sounds. Its a long and epic journey, ardous and long. Many wont take that journey and look to scripture to justify there refusal to take go on the journey.

 

[Michael BoryAlis]

They may very well confess he is Lord and actually exists, however this will not give them the right to enter paradise. Its hades for them . Being born again is not as simple as it sounds. Its a long and epic journey, ardous and long. Many wont take that journey and look to scripture to justify there refusal to take go on the journey.

Why have you not tried to explain away the other scriptures given?

Here are a couple more . .

The son quickeneth whom he will (John 5:21).

God wills all men be saved . . to be testified in due time - I Tim 2:4-6

 

[Gregoryp]

Why have you not tried to explain away the other scriptures given.

Rather than me type 200 page essay and explain it, here is an essay someone else prepared earlier. Your welcome. Will there be a second chance for salvation after death? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

They may very well confess he is Lord and actually exists, however this will not give them the right to enter paradise. Its hades for them . Being born again is not as simple as it sounds. Its a long and epic journey, ardous and long. Many wont take that journey and look to scripture to justify there refusal to take go on the journey.

I agree.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

The whole Bible fits together as the One Perfect Oracle that it is, if properly translated with the spiritual interpretation.

I agree that the whole Bible fits together. I'm asking questions to understand how you are interpreting scriptures to determine if your interpretation of scripture is coherent.

Thanks for the response. God Bless.

 

[Michael BoryAlis]

Rather than me type 200 page essay and explain it, here is an essay someone else prepared earlier. Your welcome. Will there be a second chance for salvation after death? | GotQuestions.org

Not necessary. I know all the Eternal Damnationist ideology, being one of them for many years.

Let me make it easy on you -
Give me JUST ONE verse in the Bible that states people cannot "call upon the Lord" after physical death.

 

[Gregoryp]

Hebrews 9:27 ESV - And just as it is appointed… | Biblia

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

biblia.com

 

[Gregoryp]

Revelation 20:11–15 ESV - Then I saw a great… | Biblia

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I...

biblia.com

 

[Michael BoryAlis]

I agree.

Hebrews 9:27 ESV - And just as it is appointed… | Biblia

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

biblia.com

Ever hear of Jesus?
Those that try to preach Heb 9:27 ALWAYS leave off verse 28.
Remember to keep things in context:
Time to break your appointment with death . .

 

[Michael BoryAlis]

Revelation 20:11–15 ESV - Then I saw a great… | Biblia

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I...

biblia.com

Yup, "everyone shall be salted with FIRE" - Mark 9:49

 

[Gregoryp]

Well thats incorrect , and I am not going any further into the debate, except to say Jesus commanded us to seperate ourselves from the world and its evil desires and tempations. In other words to be born again in truth. If you dont repent, you wont see paradise.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Not necessary. I know all the Eternal Damnationist ideology, being one of them for many years.

Let me make it easy on you -
Give me JUST ONE verse in the Bible that states people cannot "call upon the Lord" after physical death.

Thanks for the specific question.

What are your thoughts on the story of the Rich man and Lazarus found in
Luke 16:19-31 ( Bible Gateway passage: Luke 16:19-31 - New International Version )

My understanding is that the Rich man's attempts to call for help, even for a drop of water was futile.
The passage even mentions the great divide which made it impossible for there to be a crossover from
one side to the next.

What place does this story have as it relates to your view of scripture?

Is one to take this story as simply a parable and not literal? Or is one to hold the position that the rich man
could have been saved if he called on Jesus but instead he called on Abraham so that was his error?
Or is there another way to view this passage in a way that it would support your view?

My understanding is that the text seems to clearly present a picture in which this man who died without Jesus was lost.

God Bless