• Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Should Christians own weapons?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Member
Your not making any sense at all and contradicting the Word of GOD.

GOD uses humans to fulfill His works. Does he not "set up" and "remove" kings using humans such as say, King David who slain Goliath with a "weapon"? What about the other men of GOD who used weapons in the Bible? What do you have to say about those?

You really need to let it rest, because you trying to persuade anyone that weapons are not allowed is unbiblical and not working at all. Let GOD judge and lead as He desires, not man.

Are you telling me to stop the topic if so say it.

Of course God uses humans to kill or protect but what does the topic says?

What we have here is a bunch of emotional gun owners who can't use the word of God to defend there position.

3 verses from the NT shuts down the gun owners argument

Romans 12:19 (KJV)Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

the Lord has taken the protection and retaliation out of the gun owners hand

Ephesians 6:11-13 (KJV)
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places . [13] Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

the fight is not against the human or flesh and blood the fight is against the one behind the flesh and blood. The weapons we are suppose to have is God's weapon




2 Corinthians 10:3-5 (KJV)
For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: [4] (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) [5] Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

the weapons of the servant of God is not a carnal weapon!
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts
Colossians 3:15


One of the main things satan does is too attempt to cause division amongst the children of God.

And it appears that is what he is doing very effectively here in this thread.....
And it is turning into one big argument.... thankfully not face to face with weapons being held

Rather let us praise the Lord for the victory that He has given us through Christ our Saviour
And fight the good fight.....lifting up Jesus the author and finisher of our faith

And know with a certainty that His promises will never ever fail us


The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
Psalm 18:2

In all thy ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct thy paths
Proverbs 3:6



Ye have heard that it hath been said,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:
for He maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Matthew 5:43-48

 
Last edited:
Member
35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
 
Member
Peter had a sword, and used it. Jesus told Peter to put it up, and Jesus reparied the damage done.
We are to take up the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. The only one who truly knows when a weapon should be used and against whom, is the Lord. He drove out the money changers with a scourge of small cords, and will smash his enemies with a rod of iron like busting up vessels of clay: all in due time. Wait, watch, spread the word; fight against spiritual wickedness.

A tree is known by it's fruit.

There is a way that seems right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Loyal
Howard: What we have here is a bunch of emotional gun owners who can't use the word of God to defend there position.

Howard may be gone but his words remain and it might do some good to clarify. While I do not agree with his position, I, myself, have never in my life owned a gun. Unnecessary use of force is probably always wrong in the eyes of God, but is there never any necessary use of force in the eyes of God? I am very certain that there is. Our prayer should be that anyone put in a position where there is apparently a need to use such force against another will follow the lead of the Holy Ghost carefully.
 
Member
No, there is no time when we are to use force. Force is of the flesh; it wants justice or protection now, because all the flesh has is now. Even if the devil kill you, yet shall you live.
 
Loyal
No, there is no time when we are to use force. Force is of the flesh; it wants justice or protection now, because all the flesh has is now. Even if the devil kill you, yet shall you live.

Thank you for the clarification. I believe that I understand what you mean. I will not say absolutely that you are wrong, but consider a parent with young children. Is there ever a time when a parent should consider using force to protect the child?

For example, if a toddler is about to test the flame on a gas burning stove by putting his hand into it, should the parent take hold on the child's hand and hold it or pull it back? That would be forcing the child, wouldn't it?
 
Member
Canada has gun control (gun limitation) and before anyone says they want stricter laws on who can have a gun, look Canada over and them someone say so. Several years ago the leader of NRA said people would have to pry his gun away from his cold dead hands to get his gun. Some people are that solid on the 2nd admendment. I own two rifles and unless I change my mind by the Lords direction, I would not be willing to give any authority my guns.
 
Member
No, there is no time when we are to use force. Force is of the flesh; it wants justice or protection now, because all the flesh has is now. Even if the devil kill you, yet shall you live.

The home owner is to be ready to defend his home.

39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.


40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
 
Administrator
Staff Member
For everyone who thinks it's "wrong" for a Christian to own a weapon, let me ask you:

Your a mother or father, you have your spouse and children in your home. Someone breaks into your home with a weapon (doesn't matter what kind), what do you do? Call police and watch the intruder attack your family (very common, very likely)? You just stand there watch your spouse and children get attacked and yourself too? Or you respond with defense to protect your loved ones?

Be realistic, not ignorant.
 
Loyal
For everyone who thinks it's "wrong" for a Christian to own a weapon, let me ask you:

Your a mother or father, you have your spouse and children in your home. Someone breaks into your home with a weapon (doesn't matter what kind), what do you do? Call police and watch the intruder attack your family (very common, very likely)? You just stand there watch your spouse and children get attacked and yourself too? Or you respond with defense to protect your loved ones?

Be realistic, not ignorant.

I would not argue that it is "wrong" to own a weapon, but I believe that there are wiser and better choices.

I am a father of three young children and I do not own a weapon to protect my family. The reasons for me are both practical and spiritual. First off, responding to violence with violence is likely to escalate the situation and increases the chances of someone getting hurt. In short, my wife and children are probably safer if I don't try the heroics...

Second, I want to trust in God as our protector and ultimate judge of all. That doesn't mean that we leave the door unlocked at night, but keeping a weapon does not fit well with my faith in God to preserve us.

We live in an area where gun crime is a problem. How could I urge others against violence with integrity if I keep the potential for lethal violence in my own home?

One of the people I most admire is a church leader in an extremely dangerous nation. He has been carjacked and held at gunpoint at least three times. His response? "Young men, you may take my car and kill me. But first let me tell you about the love of Jesus...."
 
Last edited:
Member
For all those who believe that pacifism, turning the other cheek, and not resisting evil, is the true and Christian way, here are some points to also consider.

1 You have no right to call the police when in trouble. Asking the police to use force on your behalf is violence by proxy and you are therefore as guilty as if you fought the attacker yourself.

2. You have no right to lock your house or car because again it shows you are resisting evil, instead of trusting God.

3. You have no right to insure your car (other than the minimum required by law). Because that is making someone else pay instead of just turning the other cheek!

4. You have no right to insure your house. Again making someone else pay and not turning the other cheek.

5. When someone decides to rape your wife and kids, as a man of faith, you will have to stand aside.


All this huffing and puffing about how you trust God in all things is being spoken in a vacuum. If you really believe such things then you also need to stop viewing it as a single imaginary situation sometime in the future.
If you truly believe that you should turn the other cheek, then you really cannot cry out for help or even dial 911. Nor can you claim on your insurance policy, because your God has always provided for your every need, hasn't he.
Women, when you are being raped, if you believe some of your menfolk here, just accept it as the will of God.

To the pacifists here, if your faith is true, then practise it in all the real and normal daily areas of life, not just the hypothetical ones in which it has never been tested.

So all you lovely pacifists, if its faith not just fakery, then stop worrying when you go to bed, just leave the door unlocked because God will protect your house won't he?
 
Last edited:
Loyal
The command to turn the other cheek is from Jesus Christ, so it is hardly appropriate to speak of it in a sneering tone.

You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.​
 
Member
The command to turn the other cheek is from Jesus Christ, so it is hardly appropriate to speak of it in a sneering tone.

You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.​

I agree hekuran.

Francis Drake. You sound like a pharisee
 
Member
For all those who believe that pacifism, turning the other cheek, and not resisting evil, is the true and Christian way, here are some points to also consider.
etc

<style type="text/css">#toc, .toc, .mw-warning { border: 1px solid rgb(170, 170, 170); background-color: rgb(249, 249, 249); padding: 5px; font-size: 95%; }#toc h2, .toc h2 { display: inline; border: medium none; padding: 0px; font-size: 100%; font-weight: bold; }#toc #toctitle, .toc #toctitle, #toc .toctitle, .toc .toctitle { text-align: center; }#toc ul, .toc ul { list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; margin-left: 0px; padding-left: 0px; text-align: left; }#toc ul ul, .toc ul ul { margin: 0px 0px 0px 2em; }#toc .toctoggle, .toc .toctoggle { font-size: 94%; }body { font-family: 'Times New Roman'; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); widows: 2; font-style: normal; text-indent: 0in; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12pt; text-decoration: none; text-align: left; }table { }td { border-collapse: collapse; text-align: left; vertical-align: top; }p, h1, h2, h3, li { color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 12pt; text-align: left; }</style> attacking pacifists will not build up the Gospel for anyone
do we have a purer
more righteous
justified
replacement for the Gospel that the Apostle Paul had
where he said
16I say again, Let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little. 17That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting. 18Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also. 19For ye suffer fools gladly, seeing ye yourselves are wise. 20For ye suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face. 21I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also. 22Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I. 23Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. 24Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. 25Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. 28Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches. 29Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not? 2Corinthians 11:16-29
and
But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Philippians 3:7-10

is the Church (Christians) a western thing?
the attack
or mind-rape
given against all
suggests that the writer has forgotten that we are not commanded to own cars
have riches worth stealing
or even live a life that beckons sickness and therefore the use of medicines
the Gospel
the glorious Gospel was and is for all
not just the western world
so many in this world do not have access to police
to medications
to cars
to valuables
and many do not even have homes to lock up
why talk about insurance policies to a Church
that is in the world
but not of the world

ever been raped?
did you even have a husband to think about at the time
or perhaps it was your husband hurting you
speak your mind but be careful
more careful
that you stick to truth
and to remember those in bonds
for the Gospel sake

when the words came
turn the other cheek
to whom were they spoken
and what of the real threats of the time they lived in?
the modern church
western and entangled in the world and its cares is so distant from what and who the Lord spoke about

the Church is one
as He is One
and stands out as a light in the darkness
the darkness resists and fights against it
it exposes darkness
the Church was and is persecuted
and yet on display
turn the other cheek was and is a directive with good reason
as said in my earlier post
what of those in distant lands to the average TalkJesus writer
if one retaliates
the whole suffers
as with the early Church
a display by one reflects the whole

and what will and does our reactions speak to the lost
to the enemy
to those walking in darkness
what Gospel does it preach?
at a time when the Church was always a potential and real target for severe persecution
when the arenas were filled with blood
and pain
when soldiers were a law you could not resist
when some were able to do as they wanted against others without care
as in apartheid
racial or social segregation
injustice
oppression
no rights
what real benefit is there
or was there in retaliation
when imprisoned
and weak
a minority

even non-christians know that retaliation usually ends in a bigger nastier fight
or a sudden and hurtful end

attacking pacifists does not address the ownership of weapons
it merely aims at those who would prefer to live and love as Christians
in this world
but not of it

you do not need to own a weapon to react with force or violence or to use something in such a way that it becomes a weapon

unless we look at the Church as it was
how it has been throughout the ages since its beginning
and even today
where most of the Body is not in a material world with 911‘s or 000‘s or even 007‘s
and unless we also remember the futility of most people attempting to overpower and fight against the attackers who themselves often have weapons and support
remembering that not all are superheros and muscle-clad fighters and warriors
but mothers
sisters
brothers and average men and sons
and unless we put the Gospel into the place it is
against persecution and oppression
we can overlook the meaning and validity of
turn the other cheek
but we also can
we can
we surely can
react and desire to react in a way that spreads the Glorious Gospel
instead of just being another thing that happens in this world
we need to 3ncourage each other that we can
we can
and we know we can
because of who we are
and most surely because of Who our Lord is
and build each other up
to be able to be examples of the Gospel in every area of our lives

the world watches
the world sees what those who profess to be Christians do
and say
and our part is to put the Gospel and upholding it
(not putting it under a table or bushel)
first in our priorities
trusting Him
and to be brave and not cowardly
knowing the power of the life of the Gospel in us
(being a pacifist is actually a lot braver than is often thought)
but we can be strong in the Lord
and allow Him to be that strength in weakness

let His peace guide and rule you, both now and ever
resist worldly reasoning and worldly excuses
we have something much better
and enduring
steadfast and sure
encourage one another
in love
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:
Matthew 5:45a
21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
1Peter 2:21-25
10We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. 11Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; 12And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: 13Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
1Corinthians 4:10-13
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top