Should Christians own weapons?

[howard]

Acts 7:57-60 (KJV)
Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, [58] And cast him out of the city, and stoned him : and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. [59] And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God , and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. [60] And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Why didn't Stephen defend himself?

Where was his weapon?

look who was standing there with the insane crowd.

Acts 8:1 (KJV)
And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Acts 22:20 (KJV)
And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.

 

[howard]

1 Peter 5:8 (KJV)
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:


Who so you think satan is looking for?


When satan get that person what do you think that person will do?


Good or evil

 

[Eddy Fire]

Eddy Fire, can you please structure your posts in a way that is easy to read? It also makes the post more organized and take up less room.

you're right
a dog like me was just happy to see
a few yummy crumbs

 

[SonSigns]

In my opinion, I think it is all right to own a gun. I have a few of them. The problem isn't the gun it is the man or woman or boy or girl pulling the trigger. The Lord gave us spriritaul Armour and weapons to fight the good fight of faith. Listen up, the battle has already been won. We need the feds in America to make laws that if you have a gun is used or even on a person that commits a crime they go to prison for at least 10 years. No chance of getting out.
What if food is in short supply, without a gun it will be hard to hunt a deer with rocks.
What if someone breaks into your home and all you have is a bat and the burgler has a gun? I am looking for a shotgun with bean bag shot in it. It would hurt but not kill.

 

[faithfulservant]

Why can't you answer the topic and stop trying to focus on me. I have not accused the people of this thread of anything. You cannot answer the thread with the word of God. So you try to attack the messenger instead of the message.

PAy close attention and answer the verses and do not direct your attacks at me

Vengeance is The Lord he will repay.

Who told you to take matters into your own hands ?

Again, you're using God's word out of context and without wisdom. It isn't "vengeance" to protect yourself from lawless evil. Vengeance is calculating evil in your heart to repay someone after the fact. You are in need of rebuke, but you accept none. You use God's word to accuse the brethren, much like Satan does. Jesus said we would know them by their fruit. A fig tree does not bear thistles.

You accuse me of not answering your questions, but you have refused to answer mine:

What would you do, Howard, if an evil person assaulted a vulnerable child in front of you? You have no phone, you are the only person that could protect that child. What would you do?

Is there any situation where you wouldn't hand innocents over to vile assault?

Would you let the civil authorities drag innocents away to enslavement, torture, and death? Would you use God's word to justify evil?

Corrie Tenboom hid innocent, vulnerable Jews during the Holocaust, even though the civil authorities made it illegal, what would you have done with those Jews, Howard?

Do you lock your home up at night?

Do you own health insurance?

Would you let a loved-one perish without a life-saving blood transfusion?

Answer my questions, and make note of what's in your heart. Jesus rebuked the pharisees for having more love for their mules on the sabbath than for people.

You are a noisy gong as you hurl fragments of God's word without context or wisdom. This is my second and final warning to you.

 

[faithfulservant]

Acts 7:57-60 (KJV)
Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord, [58] And cast him out of the city, and stoned him : and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. [59] And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God , and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. [60] And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Why didn't Stephen defend himself?

Where was his weapon?

look who was standing there with the insane crowd.

Acts 8:1 (KJV)
And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.

Acts 22:20 (KJV)
And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.

Stephen was being stoned for preaching the gospel (from the Old Testament) to the pharisees. He rebuked them sharply for their unbelief, and they killed him because they hated Jesus.

This is not the same as random, lawless people assaulting or killing easy victims.

There is a difference between being persecuted for His namesake, and being assaulted or murdered for lawless, wanton evil. I've stated as much already, but you refuse to listen. You are certainly puffed up with your own agenda, and you obviously love controversy because you yourself stated that this is the second such thread you created (noting how much attention the last one you made got). That's a "Howard" centered motive, not a truth centered one.

There is absolutely no prohibition to self-defense in the Bible, if you rightly divide God's word.

 

[faithfulservant]

What this really comes down to is that Howard has proposed God allows evil because He created evil, as though evil was good or had some purpose. Fundamentally, he has a warped doctrine. God allows freewill, and man can chooses to do evil or good with it. God is holy, it grieves Him to see the evil man chooses to do with the freewill He gave them.

But there is a reason a mama bear will defend it's cub. There is a reason a mother would fight to protect her baby, and it's not freewill evil.

 

[amadeus2]

Do a servant of God need a weapon?

If you are speaking of a physical weapon, the answer is, No, but that doesn't mean that God has never chosen and will never choose that way to accomplish His purpose.

Howard: do you really think God need to use a man to his work?

Of course, He doesn't but again, you are deciding what God has chosen or is choosing. Who among us really knows God so well as that. Remember Isaiah 55:9. Have any of us risen up as high as His ways in all things?

Howard: watch this

Genesis 6:17 (KJV)
And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

This was a whole world.

Yes, I was watching, but should we use even what some might call historical precedent to limit God the ways in which can or will work?

Howard: Lets look at a country

Psalm 78:50 (KJV)
He made a way to his anger; he spared not their soul from death, but gave their life over to the pestilence;

My answer is the same. You have not shown that God never had used, nor never will use a physical weapon in the physical hands of a man to accomplish His purposel

Howard: Noah did not have a weapon.
The children of Israel did not use a weapon

do a servant of God need a weapon?

I have answered these questions already. You have not answered mine. I readily admit that I do not know all of the answers. The only one who does is God. To me it seems that you are attempting to limit God. God is limited as He has limited Himself. God is limited by men to the extent that He gave men the ability to limit Him.

 

[Brad Huber]

Is a whip a weapon? The Lord Jesus used one quite effectively.

 

[faithfulservant]

 

[faithfulservant]

According to you, Howard, George Washington should not have been a part of the birthing of this nation as it would have been against God's will that he take up arms and lead the militia against a tyrranous king.

Here is an excerpt from Washington's prayer journal:

O eternal and everlasting God, I presume to present myself this morning before thy Divine majesty, beseeching thee to accept of my humble and hearty thanks, that it hath pleased thy great goodness to keep and preserve me the night past from all the dangers poor mortals are subject to, and has given me sweet and pleasant sleep, whereby I find my body refreshed and comforted for performing the duties of this day, in which I beseech thee to defend me from all perils of body and soul.

Direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the lamb, and purge my heart by thy Holy Spirit, from the dross of my natural corruption, that I may with more freedom of mind and liberty of will serve thee, the ever lasting God, in righteousness and holiness this day, and all the days of my life.

Increase my faith in the sweet promises of the Gospel. Give me repentance from dead works. Pardon my wanderings, & direct my thoughts unto thyself, the God of my salvation. Teach me how to live in thy fear, labor in thy service, and ever to run in the ways of thy commandments. Make me always watchful over my heart, that neither the terrors of conscience, the loathing of holy duties, the love of sin, nor an unwillingness to depart this life, may cast me into a spiritual slumber. But daily frame me more and more into the likeness of thy son Jesus Christ, that living in thy fear, and dying in thy favor, I may in thy appointed time attain the resurrection of the just unto eternal life. Bless my family, friends & kindred unite us all in praising & glorifying thee in all our works begun, continued, and ended, when we shall come to make our last account before thee blessed Saviour, who hath taught us thus to pray, our Father.

 

[farout]

Today 2/4/13 there is a huge amount of talk about gun comtrol. Does anyone really belive we can keep guns out of those who are mentally ill or killers? There is no way to keep those people who are set on going to shoot some one. Evil people wi;; always be able to get guns. Never will evil ppeople get a gun legally. Gun control is a loosing battle.

The only way tto protect you family or loved ones or friends is to own a gun. I have never heard of anyone saving thier life with a flyswatter. I believe God expects us to protect our families and homes.

I live in a very rural area that has Black Panthers, Courger's, Skunks, and Wood Chucks, Racoons. All of these can really cause problems. Unless you have lived with these critters you have no idea what they can do to chickens, family pets. I don't spear these critters, I shoot them. So in my world a gun is really needed.

 

[Barabbas]

The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

Now as for Howard...

Brothers, and Sisters, when someone comes to you with a "Thus sayeth the LORD" concerning what a Christian must do, or not do...and they use only, or mostly OT verses...they are lying to you.

If presenting any Christian teaching without clear NT verses to back it up they are here to cause divisions, and strife among the brethren.

Howard has already admitted to doing this very thing.

I spend a lot of time reading, and studying Christian Apologetics, Christian Philosophy, and after reading Howards posts I actually feel my IQ drop 150 points in mere seconds.

We have had 2000 years of Christian Apologetics, and Philosophy to draw on. Brilliant people have brought every verse in the bible alive with understanding.

There is no excuse for any Christian to be ignorant of what the scriptures tell us. Bible commentary's are available for free all over the internet.

This is however completely lost on "Taliban like" Christians like our friend Howard. Logic, reason, and truth, mean nothing here.

Worse yet, accusing God of being the creator of evil, of being the one who sends evil to us...is blasphemous. It dives directly into Heresy. Contrary to orthodox Christian theology that has been with for centuries.
It is no small wonder how we get groups like JW's, and other cultists, who come to the scripture with their pet ideas, and go searching not for truth, but instead "proof texts" to bolster their false claims.

The ham handed, clumsy handling of the text concerning God being the creator of evil is the prime example.

According to Howards twisted view on this, God is the one who sends Muslims to Nigerian Churches with car bombs, it is Jesus who sends mobs of Muslims to burn down the homes, and businesses of Egyptian Christians, it is Jesus who sends Muslim militias to kidnap, and rape Christian women in the Sudan, it is Jesus who sends Muslims to behead Christian school girls in Indonesia.

No hedges for them. Apparently.

No, "discussion" will not work, better to argue with your cat.

Get thee behind me Satan..more appropriate....

 

[stephen]

Should Christians own weapons?
With the gun debate raging across America and the 2nd amendment under assault should Christians carry weapons or do we need weapons?

I question 'Who are you shooting'?

 

[howard]

According to you, Howard, George Washington should not have been a part of the birthing of this nation as it would have been against God's will that he take up arms and lead the militia against a tyrranous king.

Here is an excerpt from Washington's prayer journal:

O eternal and everlasting God, I presume to present myself this morning before thy Divine majesty, beseeching thee to accept of my humble and hearty thanks, that it hath pleased thy great goodness to keep and preserve me the night past from all the dangers poor mortals are subject to, and has given me sweet and pleasant sleep, whereby I find my body refreshed and comforted for performing the duties of this day, in which I beseech thee to defend me from all perils of body and soul.

Direct my thoughts, words and work. Wash away my sins in the immaculate blood of the lamb, and purge my heart by thy Holy Spirit, from the dross of my natural corruption, that I may with more freedom of mind and liberty of will serve thee, the ever lasting God, in righteousness and holiness this day, and all the days of my life.

Increase my faith in the sweet promises of the Gospel. Give me repentance from dead works. Pardon my wanderings, & direct my thoughts unto thyself, the God of my salvation. Teach me how to live in thy fear, labor in thy service, and ever to run in the ways of thy commandments. Make me always watchful over my heart, that neither the terrors of conscience, the loathing of holy duties, the love of sin, nor an unwillingness to depart this life, may cast me into a spiritual slumber. But daily frame me more and more into the likeness of thy son Jesus Christ, that living in thy fear, and dying in thy favor, I may in thy appointed time attain the resurrection of the just unto eternal life. Bless my family, friends & kindred unite us all in praising & glorifying thee in all our works begun, continued, and ended, when we shall come to make our last account before thee blessed Saviour, who hath taught us thus to pray, our Father.

Can you use God's word to defend yourself?

watch this

Daniel 2:20-21 (KJV)
Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: [21] And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

God sets up kings and nations do you understand what is written above?

 

[howard]

I question 'Who are you shooting'?

That's not a answer to the question?

 

[howard]

The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

Now as for Howard...

Brothers, and Sisters, when someone comes to you with a "Thus sayeth the LORD" concerning what a Christian must do, or not do...and they use only, or mostly OT verses...they are lying to you.

If presenting any Christian teaching without clear NT verses to back it up they are here to cause divisions, and strife among the brethren.

Howard has already admitted to doing this very thing.

I spend a lot of time reading, and studying Christian Apologetics, Christian Philosophy, and after reading Howards posts I actually feel my IQ drop 150 points in mere seconds.

We have had 2000 years of Christian Apologetics, and Philosophy to draw on. Brilliant people have brought every verse in the bible alive with understanding.

There is no excuse for any Christian to be ignorant of what the scriptures tell us. Bible commentary's are available for free all over the internet.

This is however completely lost on "Taliban like" Christians like our friend Howard. Logic, reason, and truth, mean nothing here.

Worse yet, accusing God of being the creator of evil, of being the one who sends evil to us...is blasphemous. It dives directly into Heresy. Contrary to orthodox Christian theology that has been with for centuries.
It is no small wonder how we get groups like JW's, and other cultists, who come to the scripture with their pet ideas, and go searching not for truth, but instead "proof texts" to bolster their false claims.

The ham handed, clumsy handling of the text concerning God being the creator of evil is the prime example.

According to Howards twisted view on this, God is the one who sends Muslims to Nigerian Churches with car bombs, it is Jesus who sends mobs of Muslims to burn down the homes, and businesses of Egyptian Christians, it is Jesus who sends Muslim militias to kidnap, and rape Christian women in the Sudan, it is Jesus who sends Muslims to behead Christian school girls in Indonesia.

No hedges for them. Apparently.

No, "discussion" will not work, better to argue with your cat.

Get thee behind me Satan..more appropriate....

You are saying that the OT are lies?

using your theory the God in this verses in the NT is a lie?

1 Corinthians 10:1-4 (KJV)
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

tell me is the Rock who is Jesus a lie or is it Paul ?

who is that rock that led Israel in the wilderness?

duh it was Jesus

let read the word of God so you can stop trying to put brothers and sisters against me

Pay attention

Amos 3:6 (KJV)
Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it ?

Who brings evil to a city?

duh!!! it is Jesus


One more for you Pay close attention

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV)
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things .

who create evil?

duh!! Jesus

oh I forgot you said the OT is lies

go back and read 1 Corinthians and reread

It was Jesus in the OT

who is lying now?

 

[Chad]

Can you use God's word to defend yourself?

watch this

Daniel 2:20-21 (KJV)
Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: [21] And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:

God sets up kings and nations do you understand what is written above?

Your not making any sense at all and contradicting the Word of GOD.

GOD uses humans to fulfill His works. Does he not "set up" and "remove" kings using humans such as say, King David who slain Goliath with a "weapon"? What about the other men of GOD who used weapons in the Bible? What do you have to say about those?

You really need to let it rest, because you trying to persuade anyone that weapons are not allowed is unbiblical and not working at all. Let GOD judge and lead as He desires, not man.

 

[Chad]

ell me is the Rock who is Jesus a lie or is it Paul ?

who is that rock that led Israel in the wilderness?

duh it was Jesus

let read the word of God so you can stop trying to put brothers and sisters against me

Pay attention

Lose the immature "duh" and change your tone.

 

[Chad]

Another awesome article from Bible Questions Answered

"How should a Christian view gun control?"

Answer: The recent shootings across the United States have caused much heartache. The senseless and tragic incidents have also renewed the intensity of discussion regarding American gun laws. Politicians, sportsmen, and theologians have all weighed in on the issue of gun control. Guns are readily available in the U.S., and ownership is protected by the Constitution. How should a Christian view gun control? What does the Bible have to say that would apply to gun control?

The Bible was written long before the invention of any type of gun, so the phrase “gun control” will not be found in Scripture. However, the Bible records many accounts of wars, battles, and the use of weapons. Warfare is presented as an inevitable part of living in a fallen world (Mark 13:7; James 4:1), and weaponry is a necessary part of warfare. Weapons in the Bible were also used for personal protection. In some parts of Israel, robbers were common (see Luke 10:30), and many people carried weapons when they traveled. Carrying a weapon for self-defense is never condemned in the Bible. In fact, it was mentioned in a positive light by Jesus Himself on one occasion (Luke 22:35-38).

Christians are called to submit to governing authorities, and they are to obey the laws of the land (Romans 13:1-7; 1 Peter 2:13-17). This would have to apply to gun laws, too. If American gun laws change, American Christians should submit to these changes and work through democratic means toward any desired alternatives. The Bible does not forbid the possession of weapons, and neither does it command such possession. Laws may come and go, but the goal of the believer in Jesus Christ remains the same: to glorify the Lord (1 Corinthians 10:31).

Another biblical principle to consider is that “all who draw the sword will die by the sword” (Matthew 26:52). Jesus said this to Peter when Peter tried to mount an imprudent “defense” of Jesus against the mob that had come to arrest Him. Peter’s actions were not only futile against such a “large crowd armed with swords and clubs” (verse 47), but his rash behavior also belied Jesus’ submissive attitude (verse 50) and worked against the fulfillment of Scripture (verse 54). There is “a time for war and a time for peace” (Ecclesiastes 3:8), and Peter confused the two.

Christianity supports personal freedom. Romans 14:1-4 indicates that, when Scripture does not clearly address a particular issue, there is freedom for individual choice. America has historically embraced the concept of personal freedom that resonates with this principle, and the founding documents guarantee wide freedoms regarding firearms. Some point to Matthew 5:9, in which Jesus pronounces a blessing on the peacemakers, and apply it to the issue of gun control. The idea is that guns are antithetical to peace. This may be more of a philosophical or political idea than a theological one, however. There is nothing theologically, or even logically, that links guns to a lack of peace; sometimes, guns help maintain civil peace.

Debates over whether to control guns or how much to control them depend largely on political and philosophical arguments, not moral ones. This is not to say that there is no moral component to the issue. Obviously, the gun itself is amoral, an object that can be used for good or for evil. More important is the morality of the person wielding the gun, and that is too often the missing consideration in the gun control argument. The fact that some sinners use guns to commit sin does not mean guns are the problem. Sin is the problem, and that’s a moral and spiritual issue. Since the very beginning of humanity, people have been killing other people, with and without weapons (see Genesis 4). Taking a certain weapon out of circulation might make murder more difficult but by no means impossible.

As far as the Bible is concerned, the use of guns is a matter of personal conviction. There is nothing unspiritual about owning a gun or knowing how to use one. There is nothing wrong with protecting oneself or loved ones, even if it involves the use of weapons. We need not pretend there is never a need for guns, but pointing a gun at a person should always be a last resort. We should seek to neutralize threats without violence whenever possible.

So, how should a Christian view gun control? With the authority God has entrusted to it, the government has the right to allow or disallow gun ownership to whatever degree it deems right. We, as citizens, are called to submit to whatever gun control laws the government institutes. This is not, however, a statement on the wisdom of gun control. There are good reasons to allow law-abiding citizens to own guns. Ultimately, guns are not the problem. Sinful people are the problem.