Power in Hell?

[Samson2020]

Samson2020 -- are You saying that everyone is going to end up in heaven?

NO. It's far better than that as eye hath not seen nor ear heard the things that God hath prepared for them that love him. We love him because he first loved us. Eventually when he lets everybody in on this mystery they will love him tremendously beyond belief as ALL will someday be made alive through Jesus Christ.

I tried to show you once before but you said that sometimes people SEE things that aren't there. Truth is you just can't fathom the tremendous Love of God for ALL his children
and how he plans to make this happen.

Line upon line, precept upon precept.........

The Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU, so why do you need to go to heaven? You don't, but the matured spirit son inside you will be able to go anywhere and do anything.

 

[Butch5]

So -- it sounds like you're putting Your interpretation of Scripture above everyone elses. And ,as a result of Your personal in-depth study of God's Word -- You are assured that You have it right.

Just like you're putting your interpretation above everyone else. That's how it goes. If I thought someone else had an interpretation that was correct I would adhere to it. If someone presents an argument I'll listen. But, I'm not going to throw common sense out the window and believe something just because a pastor or translator said it.

 

[Butch5]

So -- it sounds like you're putting Your interpretation of Scripture above everyone elses. And ,as a result of Your personal in-depth study of God's Word -- You are assured that You have it right.

Everybody puts their interpretation above others. Would you hold a doctrine that you believe is wrong? If you don't agree with someone you're going to hold your interpretation above the person you believe is wrong.

Sorry, but I don't really see the logic in your statement.

Everything I say I can back up with stated Scripture, not inferences or assumptions. When I say only the Father has immortality, it's because Paul states that plainly. When I say man consists of the dust of the ground it's because Moses stated that specifically. I read the Bible for what it says, not what I want it to say. When the Bible says so and so died, I read so and so died. I don't read so and so's body died but his soul lives on. I simply read the text.

 

[Sue D.]

NO. It's far better than that as eye hath not seen nor ear heard the things that God hath prepared for them that love him. We love him because he first loved us. Eventually when he lets everybody in on this mystery they will love him tremendously beyond belief as ALL will someday be made alive through Jesus Christ.

I tried to show you once before but you said that sometimes people SEE things that aren't there. Truth is you just can't fathom the tremendous Love of God for ALL his children
and how he plans to make this happen.

Line upon line, precept upon precept.........

The Kingdom of God is WITHIN YOU, so why do you need to go to heaven? You don't, but the matured spirit son inside you will be able to go anywhere and do anything.

JOhn 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believes in Him, will not perish but have everlasting life."

A person Does need to believe in Him

God's Word tells everyone that there is either heaven or hell in each person's future -- so there are Two possible destination. Either a person accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior or they Don't.

For the born-again believer -- the Holy Spirit Does come to reside in their heart and it never leaves Until we are safely with Jesus Christ.

When the rapture takes place -- the up-gathering of all believers -- all born-again believers will be in heaven for the marriage super of the Lamb. After those 7 years -- Jesus Christ will return to this earth and reign for 1,000 yrs. while satan is bound. Then he will be loosed for a little while. There will be more events taking place and then non-believers from all times in history will be thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone.

Then, God, Himself will bring the New Jerusalem down from heaven to this earth -- and eternity will begin and be eternal.

 

[Samson2020]

1 Co 15:22 "For as in Adam ALL DIE, EVEN so in Christ shall ALL be MADE ALIVE."

Romans 5:18 "Therefore as by the offense of one(Adam) judgment came upon ALL MEN TO CONDEMNATION; even so by the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF ONE (Jesus)
the FREE GIFT CAME UPON ALL MEN TO JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE."

THE CONDEMNATION WAS A DECREE FROM GOD AND SO WAS THE JUSTIFICATION AS A FREE GIFT. REMEMBER I QUOTED YOU THAT THE GIFTS AND CALLING
OF GOD ARE WITHOUT REPENTANCE. HE WILL NEVER REMOVE THE GIFT UNTIL ALL HAVE BEEN MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST. THEN SHALL DEATH BE DESTROYED
WHICH IS THE LAST ENEMY.

IN SHORT YES!!!!

Sue, you missed this part, which should have been read first. Those 2 verses and there are many others that require the reconciliation of ALL. The only question is how/when?

And in light of Romans 5:18 can you with a clear conscience tell me that God found the offense of Adam to carry more weight than the crucifixion of Jesus? Rom 5:16
is important to understand this part.

And consider this before you answer. All men have lived upon the face of the earth in separation from God as the condemnation reigned and no one did not participate
in it except Jesus, but he partook of it right at the very end of his days as well. Right? So since God decreed that you would participate in the condemnation and you did whether you liked it or not, do you now tell him that he cannot give the FREE GIFT OF JUSTIFICATION OF LIFE TO ALL MEN as he has declared he has done in the same verse? He just hasn't made it known to them ALL yet. Someday maybe you will SEE this as this is the freedom that Jesus spoke of in continuing in my word and knowing the truth and it setting you free. Until then I hope you can find some comfort in the doctrinal prison of organized religion that seems to be content with burning most in a hell fire forever.

In Christ shall ALL be made alive. It is at that very moment when the last of mankind has been made alive that DEATH IS DESTROYED.

 

[Sue D.]

Yes, all CAN be made alive -- but not all Will be.

Death is thrown into the Lake of fire and Brimstone. People who Were dead -- are brought back to Life -- Death ceases to exist.

We Do have freedom in Christ. Our salvation Does set us 'free' from the consequences of sin forever. But it Does have to accepted by the individual.

You are Trying to make a case for Universal salvation?! If That were the case -- there would be no need For God's 'elect'. Everyone would be God's elect.

 

[Sue D.]

Everyone's spiritual life comes from Christ. Christ does make it Possible.

And Jesus Christ will return when everyone has had a Chance to hear and a chance to accept. But everyone Won't.

Remember the Scripture about the two gates -- one is easy to see and is wide -- the Other is narrow and easily missed.

 

[Butch5]

Yes, all CAN be made alive -- but not all Will be.

Death is thrown into the Lake of fire and Brimstone. People who Were dead -- are brought back to Life -- Death ceases to exist.

We Do have freedom in Christ. Our salvation Does set us 'free' from the consequences of sin forever. But it Does have to accepted by the individual.

You are Trying to make a case for Universal salvation?! If That were the case -- there would be no need For God's 'elect'. Everyone would be God's elect.

Sue., you're being inconsistent. In this post you said, "People who Were dead -- are brought back to Life". You've been arguing that the person doesn't die, but that only the body dies. In this post you indicate that it was the person who died.

 

[Sue D.]

There is physical Death -- people are born alive physically -- but not born Spiritual until they accept Christ as their savior. Therefore the Spiritually dead person is alive physically in eternity -- vs 13 of Revelation 20 states that Death and Hades are those people in them and they are judged , each one, according his his works. This is the first mention of 'Death" along with Hades. The 'second death' is mentioned in 21:8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

You're saying that I Might be inconsistent. Oh, my.

 

[Sue D.]

Maybe a Good plan would be for a person to Not find themselves in that list.

 

[Butch5]

There is physical Death -- people are born alive physically -- but not born Spiritual until they accept Christ as their savior. Therefore the Spiritually dead person is alive physically in eternity -- vs 13 of Revelation 20 states that Death and Hades are those people in them and they are judged , each one, according his his works. This is the first mention of 'Death" along with Hades. The 'second death' is mentioned in 21:8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

You're saying that I Might be inconsistent. Oh, my.

That's some fancy foot work just to hold a doctrine.

 

[Samson2020]

You are Trying to make a case for Universal salvation?! If That were the case -- there would be no need For God's 'elect'. Everyone would be God's elect.

Your spot on. Everybody has been a vessel to dishonor but not of their own choosing. God has said that ALL THINGS are to be reconciled and that ALL MEN are justified
unto life because of what Jesus did. PERIOD!!!

Rom 11:32 "For God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief that he might have mercy upon ALL,"

You can argue with God all you want but he will do as he pleases.

Everybody is Gods elect he just hasn't let them in on it yet for he is now only concerned with the maturing of the first fruits of the crop.

We Do have freedom in Christ. Our salvation Does set us 'free' from the consequences of sin forever. But it Does have to accepted by the individual.

SELF RIGHTEOUS GARBAGE. This makes you responsible for your own salvation and it will burn up as chaff when tested in the fire. It was GIVEN TO YOU AS A FREE GIFT
by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.

they are judged , each one, according his his works.

Why would a person need to be judged according to their WORKS as they are not found in the Lambs book of life already if they are just to be cast in and burned forever?

, which is the second death."

Why would it be called the second DEATH unless there was physical death that occurred? Why the Beast government, and the false prophet (Religion) as people are required to run those institutions. Why the grave unless there is need of it for those who die.

IT'S ROUND 2 AND WHAT WE LIVE IN TODAY IS ROUND 1. 1st death, second death. There is a maturation process in each that brings forth sons unto God until ALL have come to eternal life.

1 Co 15:22 " As in Adam ALL die even so in Christ SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE." NOTICE THE WORD (SHALL) be, doesn't say wishes they would be.
1 Co 15:23 " But EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER, Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christs at his coming."

This understanding sets you free from religion and everything else that would hold you back from apprehending that for which you have been apprehended.

 

[Samson2020]

Doesn't it seem odd that after most every human is dead and the Kingdom reign begins that Satan is locked up for 1000 yrs and the people who are left alive have children
as the numbers of them grow to be like the sands of the sea during that time period. Then Satan is let out and we have the Battle as he causes them to come against the kingdom, and all are consumed with the fire of God.

Now why would he bother to go through this 1000 yr period to lock Satan up instead of tossing him straight into the lake. Why leave anyone alive to have children during the reign if all thats gonna happen is after they have served the kingdom they're gonna get burned forever. Sounds kinda strange don't you think? Unless your looking at the whole situation from a universalist approach where God takes a DAY off on DAY 7 then it all starts over again

 

[Butch5]

Your spot on. Everybody has been a vessel to dishonor but not of their own choosing. God has said that ALL THINGS are to be reconciled and that ALL MEN are justified
unto life because of what Jesus did. PERIOD!!!

Rom 11:32 "For God hath concluded them ALL in unbelief that he might have mercy upon ALL,"

You can argue with God all you want but he will do as he pleases.

Everybody is Gods elect he just hasn't let them in on it yet for he is now only concerned with the maturing of the first fruits of the crop.


SELF RIGHTEOUS GARBAGE. This makes you responsible for your own salvation and it will burn up as chaff when tested in the fire. It was GIVEN TO YOU AS A FREE GIFT
by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.



Why would a person need to be judged according to their WORKS as they are not found in the Lambs book of life already if they are just to be cast in and burned forever?


Why would it be called the second DEATH unless there was physical death that occurred? Why the Beast government, and the false prophet (Religion) as people are required to run those institutions. Why the grave unless there is need of it for those who die.

IT'S ROUND 2 AND WHAT WE LIVE IN TODAY IS ROUND 1. 1st death, second death. There is a maturation process in each that brings forth sons unto God until ALL have come to eternal life.

1 Co 15:22 " As in Adam ALL die even so in Christ SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE." NOTICE THE WORD (SHALL) be, doesn't say wishes they would be.
1 Co 15:23 " But EVERY MAN IN HIS OWN ORDER, Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christs at his coming."

This understanding sets you free from religion and everything else that would hold you back from apprehending that for which you have been apprehended.

The Rimans 11 passage is referring to the Jews, not all of mankind.

The Passage from 1 Cor. 15 speaks of all being made alive in Christ. That doesn't mean they will be given eternal lfe.

 

[Samson2020]

The Paage from 1 Cor. 15 speaks of all being made alive in Christ. That doesn't mean they will be given eternal lfe.

Please tell me what the difference is?

 

[Butch5]

Please tell me what the difference is?

Lazarus was raised by Jesus but he later died. All will be raised. People will be judged. Some will he cast into the Lake of Fire.

Revelation speaks of believers being raised in the first resurrection. There is a second resurrection later of the rest of the dead. Of this resurrection it is said that those not found on the Lambs Book of Life will be cast into the lake if Fire.

 

[Sue D.]

Doesn't it seem odd that after most every human is dead and the Kingdom reign begins that Satan is locked up for 1000 yrs and the people who are left alive have children
as the numbers of them grow to be like the sands of the sea during that time period. Then Satan is let out and we have the Battle as he causes them to come against the kingdom, and all are consumed with the fire of God.

Now why would he bother to go through this 1000 yr period to lock Satan up instead of tossing him straight into the lake. Why leave anyone alive to have children during the reign if all thats gonna happen is after they have served the kingdom they're gonna get burned forever. Sounds kinda strange don't you think? Unless your looking at the whole situation from a universalist approach where God takes a DAY off on DAY 7 then it all starts over again

Ya might just have to ask God about that.

Jesus Christ will be the righteous judge during those 1,000 yrs. -- Scripture simply tells us it will happen -- maybe it's so we won't have the excuse that 'satan made me do it' -- it Will be out of the evil desires of our own hearts. There's been the question of whether or not people will be saved during that time. When satan Is loosed -- he will have people who are willing to follow him and just when it looks like believers are doomed -- God comes in and destroys them.

God Is sovereign -- He has a plan and will bring it to pass.

 

[Sue D.]

That's some fancy foot work just to hold a doctrine.

Doctrine is important and Needs to be 'held to'.

 

[Butch5]

Doctrine is important and Needs to be 'held to'.

Not wrong doctrine

 

[Samson2020]

Revelation speaks of believers being raised in the first resurrection. There is a second resurrection later of the rest of the dead. Of this resurrection it is said that those not found on the Lambs Book of Life will be cast into the lake if Fire.

I agree, but some of the billions of souls that take part in that second resurrection were those that were born during the kingdom reign and have seen the first fruits of the redemption of man and Jesus himself, but they are still not found in the lambs book of life as they are consumed by fire at the final battle. Go figure, nobody saved over 1000 yrs even though they see salvation staring them in the face?

Take a look at everything cast into the lake of fire and ask yourself what is cast in that does not exist today? Revelation is not physical it is spiritual and should be read as such.

And be reminded that every jot and tittle must be fulfilled.

God Is sovereign -- He has a plan and will bring it to pass.

Totally agree and he will show it to whom he pleases, but not all of it. As some of it has not been written yet, just as the new testament was not written til 2000 yrs ago.
But there are hints of whats coming if he shows you where to look.

There is a great parable that speaks to this found in Matthew 20 about the laborers who ALL got a penny no matter what time of day they came to work. And it can be applied to all now as well.