Power in Hell?

[Butch5]

He was in His glorified body. My point is that it was only 40 days rather than 60 yrs.

It was 60 years later when John wrote his epistle

 

[Sue D.]

Great -- that doesn't mean that Jesus Christ was still 'here'. He wrote his epistle when the Holy Spirit guided him to write it. That's why it's called 'inspired'.

 

[Butch5]

Great -- that doesn't mean that Jesus Christ was still 'here'. He wrote his epistle when the Holy Spirit guided him to write it. That's why it's called 'inspired'.

I didn't say Jesus was still here.

 

[Samson2020]

I didn't say Jesus was still here.

So then according to your understanding where is he now and in what form?

 

[Butch5]

So then according to your understanding where is he now and in what form?

He's seated at the right hand of the Father and He's a man

 

[Samson2020]

He's seated at the right hand of the Father and He's a man

So then Sauls conversion was done by a man that nobody saw? And as a LIFE GIVING SPIRIT Jesus is still flesh and blood? And as all power in heaven and earth have been given to him he still remains flesh and blood? And as he can be anywhere he chooses whenever he chooses he's still just a man? And as flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God he's a man with no flesh and blood as he has already inherited the kingdom?

"But unto the Son he saith thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy KINGDOM."
When did or does this occur according to your understanding?

 

[Butch5]

So then Sauls conversion was done by a man that nobody saw? And as a LIFE GIVING SPIRIT Jesus is still flesh and blood? And as all power in heaven and earth have been given to him he still remains flesh and blood? And as he can be anywhere he chooses whenever he chooses he's still just a man? And as flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God he's a man with no flesh and blood as he has already inherited the kingdom?

"But unto the Son he saith thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy KINGDOM."
When did or does this occur according to your understanding?

You didnt answer my questions. You're posting passages out of context to try to prove a point. If you read Paul's statement that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom, the context is corruption and incorruption. Corruptible flesh cannot inherit the kingdom. However, one who is resurrected can. That flesh is the glorified body.

Jesus can't every where. He's a man.

I'll ask again, what is a life giving breath?

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Where exactly do you see that Revelation isn't physical? Are saying that believers won't be physically resurrected?

Correct. They have put on incorruption and they will see the Lord for they shall be like him and he is now a LIFE GIVING SPIRIT. So a spiritual resurrection into the spiritual kingdom is what will happen. They can put on a body like an angel if they wish but not needed.

Greetings brothers and sisters

This thread is becoming more and more concerning in terms of some of its content.

Please all add Bible Verses in context to back up what you are saying with truth.

@Samson2020 please can you provide Bible verses to back what you are stating.
Please see your quote above in red.
Also please can you be open and confirm whether you are a Mormon or a JW?

 

[Samson2020]

Also please can you be open and confirm whether you are a Mormon or a JW?

Not sure why you would ask that question I know nothing about either, nor why you would assume one or the other leaving no other choice. I have no affiliation with any denomination just the Holy Ghost and the Lord himself. Initially growing up my mother dragged me to a Baptist church and after Holy Ghost baptism at 38 years old was associated with a Pentecostal group for maybe 4-6 months, but the Lord kept showing me things that they were doing and teaching that didn't line up with his word so had to bow out. Spent many months trying to find a group but was always a cast out as most do not HEAR the Lord when he speaks though they claim to be Christians. Most do not believe in casting out of unclean spirits, I have done it. Most do not adhere to the laying on of hands and praying for the sick and they recover, done that too at the Lords directing. How about praying in other tongues, do that too. Indeed most things were told about a true believer in Mark 16:17-18, the so called Christians of today dismiss as only being for the early church, but having done these things I can attest that they are also for ALL who are the true believers. This is part of what makes you the outcast among your so called brethren or modern Christianity.

Everything I write is based upon Titus1:2 " In hope of ETERNAL LIFE, WHICH GOD, THAT CANNOT LIE, PROMISED BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN."
If he promised it before the world began, WHO did he promise this eternal life too? That's the mystery.

Man including Jesus was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death. We see Jesus in Revelation and before ascension in a body that had holes in it and a spear wound that should have been bleeding for the entire 40 days he was here. But since there are no accounts of blood during this 40 day period he wore the body to prove he was resurrected as the person they knew as Jesus in the flesh. And at times hid who he was from those that would have known him by facial recognition. If we are like him when he returns for us and meet him in the air and are changed in the twinkling of an eye then we will be spirits (new creations) that are higher than the Angels, for we shall judge angels, and they as you know are seen of men as men when need be. Example is coming to get Lot and his family.

Matthew 5:8 " Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall SEE God." 1John 4:12 "No MAN hath SEEN God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and His
LOVE is perfected in us." Man cannot see God as God does not allow it, would you agree? as man would no longer want to live on the earth if he were to see God. But the pure in Heart shall see God but yet these same pure in heart are the teachers spoken of in Isaiah 30:20 whom the people of earth that are born during the reign are taught the WAY by them.
Isaiah 30:19 :For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem: thou shalt weep no more: he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when he shall hear it, he will answer thee.
30:20 " And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet SHALL NOT THY TEACHERS BE REMOVED INTO A CORNER ANYMORE;
BUT THINE EYES SHALL SEE THY TEACHERS."

30:21 " And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee saying this is the WAY, walk ye in it..............."

So in short the pure in heart that are not men anymore shall see God and at the same time they are the teachers of the people during the reign of the kingdom and are
SEEN of the people. A Spirit cannot be SEEN by the human eye but if they put on a body then are they seen just as the angels who came after Lots family.

I would add that the pure in heart are those that have achieved to the full aspect of the WAY which is AGAPE LOVE the substance of God. Who better to teach the WAY
than those that have made the entire journey?

I'll ask again, what is a life giving breath?

Never saw that question on any of last several pages I was involved on.
John 5:26
Don't see how it could be anything short of a God though it be the Son of God we are discussing. "As the Father hath life within himself, so has he given to the Son to have life within Himself."
God himself breathed into the body of Adam and he became a living soul (life giving breath) as he received that spirit we know as Adam. Jesus breathed upon the disciples and said "receive ye the Holy Ghost" John 20:22 I guess he had the power to at least mark them for baptism which was the same day of his resurrection. All found in John 20, although the Spirit wasn't given until the day of Pentecost.

1 Co 15:45 "And so it is written, the first man Adam became a living soul; The last Adam (Jesus) BECAME A QUICKENING SPIRIT." First Adam made alive outside the curses of Eden became a living soul. The last perfect MAN Jesus also born outside the curses of Eden (no carnal mind) became a quickening spirit. This verse plainly says what he was and what he BECAME. Not what he will become. The Job/duty/responsibility/joy of the Lord in his capacity as a quickening spirit is to give you life by the Baptism in the Holy Ghost. The only other time Life was given to a man was when God gave it to Jesus at Jordan. And we could all agree that when that baptism occurs we are called new creations. 2Co 5:17, Gal 6:15, and if new creations then how would we still be men? Nothing new in that. As anyone "joined unto the Lord is ONE SPIRIT" not one MAN. 1 Co 6:17

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Correct. They have put on incorruption and they will see the Lord for they shall be like him and he is now a LIFE GIVING SPIRIT. So a spiritual resurrection into the spiritual kingdom is what will happen. They can put on a body like an angel if they wish but not needed.

Greetings @Samson2020

Thank you for your reply and for taking time to outline the foundation of your faith in your previous response.

I don't think you explained your above quote as outlined in red above. Please can you refer to the Bible verses that say this.

Thank you

 

[Samson2020]

Some things are black and white, or red and white. Some things need be spiritually discerned. It was all there in the midsection of the response. starting with
MAN including Jesus......and ending with made the entire journey. It's there.

But as the Lord spoke in parables so those that heard and saw would not understand, so is the hidden manna that is reserved for the overcomers.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

MAN including Jesus......and ending with made the entire journey. It's there.

Please forgive my ignorance @Samson2020 but

Please could you provide Bible Verses that backs this up

They can put on a body like an angel if they wish but not needed.

It seems that up until now you have not been able to do this....but are able to speak about your own superior understanding.

So simply provide the Biblical evidence

Thank you

 

[PloughBoy]

Translators have transliterated the word Greek paradeisos, paradise, rather than translate it. It means a garden. In the Greek Old Testament we find the paradise of Eden. In the book of Revelation Jesus speaks of allowing people to eat from the Tree of Life which He says is in the Paradise, or garden, of God. We know the Tree of Life is in the paradise of Eden. It seems then that this is what Jesus was referring to when He told the thief that he would be with Him in Paradise, or the Garden.

However, I would submit that the translators have wrongly punctuated that verse. In the original text there is no punctuation. The translators have added it where they think it should be, for the English reader. They place the comma before the word today. However, the comma could also be placed after the word today. Either would be correct grammatically in the Greek. Either one could be correct. However, placing the comma before the word today creates issues with other passages of Scripture. Thus I would submit that the comma should be placed after the word today.

Nice going, Butch!!!!! “I do like the way you see things sometimes!!! You have definitely hit the mark !!! And the way you slinging that “sword”it is cutting both ways. Now, you got to be Very careful, “You don’t cut yourself”!

 

[Sue D.]

@Butch5 -- you are still free to submit any thoughts you want on any subject you want. You have a problem with the translators ability to translate correctly.

Please, let's just read what Scripture is saying. The Garden of Eden is Not the same as the Paradise that is in Abraham's bosom where the rich man and Lazarus were. Or -- where the rich man still Is and will be until hell/ Hades are thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone.

Yes, you Do tend to hit marks -- the effectiveness / correctness might be in question, though.

 

[PloughBoy]

Now, if you would ask me, I would say, they both “Lazarus and “The Rich man” are in the same place, Known as “Sheol”, for right now! They just live on different sides of the creek [lake]! Just like, it can be raining in the “backyard and be dry and sun shining in the Front”! Man cannot do stuff like that But God can! There is nothing impossible with God! IMO Hi, Sue! Hi, Fragrant Grace!

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Greetings @PloughBoy

Yes thats a good explanation....

And neither the front or back yard can change their weather.....just like the richman and Lazarus cannot change theirs nor each others sitiation.

Its sobering imagery and should spur us on to share the Gospel and have more compassion on the lost in these last dark days

 

[Samson2020]

Please forgive my ignorance @Samson2020 but

Please could you provide Bible Verses that backs this up



It seems that up until now you have not been able to do this....but are able to speak about your own superior understanding.

So simply provide the Biblical evidence

Thank you

Matthew 17:20 ".............if ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove;
AND NOTHING SHALL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO YOU.
Like I said some things are written in black and white, some in red and white, some are spiritually discerned, and some are inferred. As the verse says NOTHING shall be
impossible to you, so what is possible to me at that time? Everything?

 

[Samson2020]

1 Co 2:9 " But as it is written, Eye hath not see, not ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

The things that are available are apparently beyond our imagination as men/women so I prefer to not try and limit God by my feeble understanding of his capacity.
No matter what you can imagine it is going to be better than that.

 

[Sue D.]

Matthew 17:20 ".............if ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove;
AND NOTHING SHALL BE IMPOSSIBLE TO YOU.
Like I said some things are written in black and white, some in red and white, some are spiritually discerned, and some are inferred. As the verse says NOTHING shall be
impossible to you, so what is possible to me at that time? Everything?

So -- in Your perspective -- You are saying that If a person wants to become an angel when they die, they Can be -- because of that particular verse. That nothing is impossible. Well -- why don't we simply accept what Scripture is actually saying.

Angels are created beings that God created separately from mankind. God has specific jobs for specific angels. God created People in a specific way for His purposes. 'We' need to be content with how God created 'us'.

Why do you want to become an angel when you die?

 

[Samson2020]

Why do you want to become an angel when you die?

No Sue, not an angel as a son of God all things are possible to us. WE will be higher than the angels as we shall judge angels.
The question was how do you know you can put on and take off a body at will?
It was answered but by inferral that nothing is impossible. And our imagination cannot grasp what God has prepared for us.

I said that as an EXAMPLE the angels that came and got Lot and his family appeared as MEN, and if they can do that, then we who are higher than they could easily do the same at that time.

It's not doctrine it's just simply looking to the possibilities during and after the Kingdom reign. Like Jesus said become as a little child. They always ask questions. We should too.
And never be limited by our current understanding because we can all be added to.