People before Christ from the Old Testament, are they saved?
- Thread starter rhern53
- Start date
Samson2020
Active
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2016
- Messages
- 1,984
During the second death. And some during the third death period. Much study needed to be allowed to see this chewable food.
The righteousness of Jesus' act in offering himself up for the sin of the world purchased all mankind.
That sacrifice is the only reason anyone is saved and thus justified unto life eventually. Romans 5:18
Most believe they are somehow required to accept this to be saved, but unless God makes this reality a fact in your life you do not truly believe. It's an I think I believe, but once the Holy
Ghost has been given one becomes a knower, and has heard His voice. It is He that shows mercy and chooses the order in which every man will come into life.
The I accepted crowd wants credit for accepting (works) and wants eternal damnation for those who never heard nor were shown mercy, this is not GOOD NEWS for the sinner its actually
fear mongering that keeps the money flowing in. Sad but we as a group of elect are given certain things to overcome and with the overcoming comes a reward. I strive according to His grace
to receive every reward that is offered up including the hidden manna. After all we are who we are by the grace of God whether vessels made to be destroyed or vessels to receive mercy. But when all is said and done, all receive mercy because of what Jesus did.
Romans 11:32 'God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He may have mercy upon all." "For it is by grace ye are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it (faith) is the gift of God"
Until a man receives faith to believe He has not received the free gift that belongs to ALL according to Romans 5:18 and that faith comes from the hand of the Father.
1 Co 15:22 'For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Adams original disobedience brought condemnation to ALL men and thus God had concluded all in unbelief at that
moment, but once Jesus' sacrifice was complete a new era began that will usher in life to all in Gods timing and order.
1 Co 15:23 "But every man in his own order.........
There is a big time gap between 1 Co 15:22 and 28, it will require some effort to fill in the gaps. But to help a bit consider
Ephesians 1:10 NLT "And this is the plan: At the right time He will bring everything under the authority of Christ-everything in heaven and on earth."
KJV"That in the dispensation of the fullness of (times), He might gather together in one ALL things in Christ...............
Notice the word times, this is a clue as to the second and third death periods (times) where others are brought into the kingdom.
Hopefully they won't boot me off for offering this up, but it cannot be denied, that Jesus bought and paid for all and He will get what He paid for with His own blood. And God hath signified
this through Romans 5:18 and many other verses/witnesses.
The righteousness of Jesus' act in offering himself up for the sin of the world purchased all mankind.
That sacrifice is the only reason anyone is saved and thus justified unto life eventually. Romans 5:18
Most believe they are somehow required to accept this to be saved, but unless God makes this reality a fact in your life you do not truly believe. It's an I think I believe, but once the Holy
Ghost has been given one becomes a knower, and has heard His voice. It is He that shows mercy and chooses the order in which every man will come into life.
The I accepted crowd wants credit for accepting (works) and wants eternal damnation for those who never heard nor were shown mercy, this is not GOOD NEWS for the sinner its actually
fear mongering that keeps the money flowing in. Sad but we as a group of elect are given certain things to overcome and with the overcoming comes a reward. I strive according to His grace
to receive every reward that is offered up including the hidden manna. After all we are who we are by the grace of God whether vessels made to be destroyed or vessels to receive mercy. But when all is said and done, all receive mercy because of what Jesus did.
Romans 11:32 'God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He may have mercy upon all." "For it is by grace ye are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it (faith) is the gift of God"
Until a man receives faith to believe He has not received the free gift that belongs to ALL according to Romans 5:18 and that faith comes from the hand of the Father.
1 Co 15:22 'For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Adams original disobedience brought condemnation to ALL men and thus God had concluded all in unbelief at that
moment, but once Jesus' sacrifice was complete a new era began that will usher in life to all in Gods timing and order.
1 Co 15:23 "But every man in his own order.........
There is a big time gap between 1 Co 15:22 and 28, it will require some effort to fill in the gaps. But to help a bit consider
Ephesians 1:10 NLT "And this is the plan: At the right time He will bring everything under the authority of Christ-everything in heaven and on earth."
KJV"That in the dispensation of the fullness of (times), He might gather together in one ALL things in Christ...............
Notice the word times, this is a clue as to the second and third death periods (times) where others are brought into the kingdom.
Hopefully they won't boot me off for offering this up, but it cannot be denied, that Jesus bought and paid for all and He will get what He paid for with His own blood. And God hath signified
this through Romans 5:18 and many other verses/witnesses.
Hekuran
Faithful Brother in Christ
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2008
- Messages
- 3,970
They looked forward in faith to the Day of the Lord, when God would establish his eternal kingdom of righteousness.
But they did not know how that kingdom would be established.
rhern53
Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2020
- Messages
- 373
so are you saying they are saved in the same way as Christians who are cleansed by the blood of the Lamb?
Samson2020
Active
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2016
- Messages
- 1,984
They will be as the dispensation of the fullness of TIMES comes to a conclusion.
Reba1
Active
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2020
- Messages
- 1,281
Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Reba1
Active
- Joined
- Mar 8, 2020
- Messages
- 1,281
They will be? Really you dont believe folks like Moses, Noah, Samuel, Rehab John the Baptist etc. are not presently saved?
Hekuran
Faithful Brother in Christ
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2008
- Messages
- 3,970
Yes. They will rise in glory exactly as we hope to.
In old testament times they had the sign of the blood of the lamb from the Exodus/Passover story. We now know what that pointed forward to.
Andyindauk
Active
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2019
- Messages
- 710
Hi Samson, do you mind me asking for a bit of clarification here? Are you saying that in your opinion that God's salvation is universal ie: For everyone?
Just wondered.
PloughBoy
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2019
- Messages
- 9,792
Addressing this Question only: (Hypothetically)
"People before Christ from the Old Testament, are they saved?"
1.[ There is a group referred to in the Old Testament, as "The People of GOD" a "Remnant According to Grace as well"
..........a. Somebody has to be "The Wedding Guest"
2. There is a Group in The New Testament who are referred to As "The Bride of Christ" "Sons of GOD', "Joint Heirs, who Shares a Rule Inheritance with "Jesus Christ" "The Adopted Sons of GOD" who receives full "Sonship" right along with the "Only Begotten SON of GOD" with "Full Privileges".
3. There is another Group in the "New Testament" who is a "Remnant" Coming out of the "Great Tribulation"
.......a. Standing around the Throne forever and always praising GOD, they will not be hungry, or cold, or sick, or burning up from heat. but always around The Throne, and He will always take care of them. [Those are they that have come out of the "Great Tribulation"]
4. There is another Group in the "New Testament" who is also a "Remnant" who will be saved within "The Thousand Year Reign"
Note: I did say "Hypothetically" saying.
I did not get that information from some "mortal book" or from some others "School of Thought",, I just read the Bible. And it is "Obvious". And i came to that conclusion before i even heard the word; "Eschatology". I just read the Book, starting at Genesis all the way to Revelation, and kept doing it, learning the meaning of words as I was reading a "Book". And at the 4th or 5th time, I said oh. now let me see what everyone is saying.
Wow.
New American Standard Bible
And I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice; and they will become one flock, withone shepherd.
1. There are Wedding Guest
2. The Bride ( Who rules with Christ forever and ever and ever who rule and Kingdom has "No END"! The Universe is Still Expanding,
3. Those who minister around the Throne of GOD The Father forever and ever and ever. and there will they be forever.
4. ELDERS who sits on "Thrones".
Our GOD The FATHER is BEYOND The BEYOND, He is So Beyond, He made "ETERNITY".
New American Standard Bible
Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
[Kings and Priest] Kings are Rulers. But Jesus is "KING of Kings" What Kings? is the question. Is the Word talking about YOU?
"People before Christ from the Old Testament, are they saved?"
1.[ There is a group referred to in the Old Testament, as "The People of GOD" a "Remnant According to Grace as well"
..........a. Somebody has to be "The Wedding Guest"
2. There is a Group in The New Testament who are referred to As "The Bride of Christ" "Sons of GOD', "Joint Heirs, who Shares a Rule Inheritance with "Jesus Christ" "The Adopted Sons of GOD" who receives full "Sonship" right along with the "Only Begotten SON of GOD" with "Full Privileges".
3. There is another Group in the "New Testament" who is a "Remnant" Coming out of the "Great Tribulation"
.......a. Standing around the Throne forever and always praising GOD, they will not be hungry, or cold, or sick, or burning up from heat. but always around The Throne, and He will always take care of them. [Those are they that have come out of the "Great Tribulation"]
4. There is another Group in the "New Testament" who is also a "Remnant" who will be saved within "The Thousand Year Reign"
Note: I did say "Hypothetically" saying.
I did not get that information from some "mortal book" or from some others "School of Thought",, I just read the Bible. And it is "Obvious". And i came to that conclusion before i even heard the word; "Eschatology". I just read the Book, starting at Genesis all the way to Revelation, and kept doing it, learning the meaning of words as I was reading a "Book". And at the 4th or 5th time, I said oh. now let me see what everyone is saying.
Wow.
New American Standard Bible
And I have other sheep that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice; and they will become one flock, withone shepherd.
1. There are Wedding Guest
2. The Bride ( Who rules with Christ forever and ever and ever who rule and Kingdom has "No END"! The Universe is Still Expanding,
3. Those who minister around the Throne of GOD The Father forever and ever and ever. and there will they be forever.
4. ELDERS who sits on "Thrones".
Our GOD The FATHER is BEYOND The BEYOND, He is So Beyond, He made "ETERNITY".
New American Standard Bible
Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
[Kings and Priest] Kings are Rulers. But Jesus is "KING of Kings" What Kings? is the question. Is the Word talking about YOU?
rhern53
Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2020
- Messages
- 373
Samson2020
Active
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2016
- Messages
- 1,984
As mentioned before Jesus plainly said that the least in the kingdom was greater than John the Baptist who was the greatest man born of a woman. Therefore, the rest who are less
than JTB are not among the least in the kingdom. You must be born again, and the Holy Ghost was not given until after His ascension so how would their salvation be possible?
Not to mention they never even heard the name Jesus except for JTB. And as mentioned earlier there is no other name by which man must be saved.
It will happen in the next dispensation after the general resurrection according to Gods timing and calling.
rhern53
Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2020
- Messages
- 373
Matthew 11:
11Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Does this passage overrule:
John 6:
53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Samson2020
Active
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2016
- Messages
- 1,984
It still requires one to be born again and that never happened until after the New Covenant (testament) was ratified by Jesus' death. No new covenant then as they were put under the law and
shut out from the faith which afterwards should be revealed. Gal 2:23
Not really sure what your trying to say about one passage over ruling another as all scripture should flow together to give the same result. No conflicts just misunderstanding or bad interpretations
lead one into thinking there is conflict among the scripture.
rhern53
Member
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2020
- Messages
- 373
Jesus said " no one can come to the Father except by me.
No one from the past knew Jesus. so how can they except Him without knowing Him?
He returns to make Himself known during the thousand year reign, especially to Israel; to except Him for who He is after that, those who except Him will be worthy of eternal life.
No one from the past knew Jesus. so how can they except Him without knowing Him?
He returns to make Himself known during the thousand year reign, especially to Israel; to except Him for who He is after that, those who except Him will be worthy of eternal life.
Samson2020
Active
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2016
- Messages
- 1,984
Only one problem with your time line there.
Most humans will have been destroyed before the beginning of the thousand year reign, "as a man will be more rare than fine gold" Isaiah 13:9-12 as the Bible puts it.
All of those that came and died before the reign begins (elect excluded) will remain in the grave until AFTER the 1000 yrs have ended. Then the general resurrection of the dead occurs. At that point the great throne judgement occurs where every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father. "All flesh shall see the salvation of God" Luke 3:6
To your first question
Well entering into the kingdom does require one to be born again and that is the beginning of eternal life, it is the consumption of the Plan (Jesus the pattern Son) that eventually
leads Him to reveal the Father which in His own words "Life eternal is to know Thee the only True God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
So they do have fitment speaking solely to eternal life within the kingdom.
But hey, those are verses that you posted asking if one over ruled the other. The answer is still NO.
