People before Christ from the Old Testament, are they saved?

[Reba1]

PS the Jehovah witnesses and the Mormons RUN from me. Both like all demon-nations have their own set of rules that disallow vision other than what their home office allows.

Thanks

 

[Reba1]

@Samson2020 what do you say the Kingdom is?

 

[Samson2020]

@Samson2020 what do you say the Kingdom is?

Total and complete unity with the Father and Son in spirit. Along with an incorruptible spiritual body. I.E. sons of the living God that exist with God that are as God.
My example would be Jesus in His current state. He sits at the right hand of the Father but has been given all power in heaven and in earth, nothing is impossible to Him and nothing will be impossible to us who are in the Kingdom. Anything that you can imagine and much more will be possible to you. Bathe in the sun? take a ride on an electron? Be in many places all at the same time, limitless, boundless, and existing as Agape Love one with another in a realm that only we can dream of now for it is much larger than this mere universe that is seen.
This is my small, limited, vision but is seems to expand every now and then.

 

[rhern53]

Total and complete unity with the Father and Son in spirit. Along with an incorruptible spiritual body. I.E. sons of the living God that exist with God that are as God.
My example would be Jesus in His current state. He sits at the right hand of the Father but has been given all power in heaven and in earth, nothing is impossible to Him and nothing will be impossible to us who are in the Kingdom. Anything that you can imagine and much more will be possible to you. Bathe in the sun? take a ride on an electron? Be in many places all at the same time, limitless, boundless, and existing as Agape Love one with another in a realm that only we can dream of now for it is much larger than this mere universe that is seen.
This is my small, limited, vision but is seems to expand every now and then.

Are there Scripture to support your idea.

I thought the Kingdom would be a physical experience. Jesus said to the apostles,"you will rule over the 12 tribes of Isreal."...... what does this mean?

Are there any discriptions/Scriptures of what a Physical Kingdom would be like?

 

[Reba1]

Total and complete unity with the Father and Son in spirit. Along with an incorruptible spiritual body. I.E. sons of the living God that exist with God that are as God.
My example would be Jesus in His current state. He sits at the right hand of the Father but has been given all power in heaven and in earth, nothing is impossible to Him and nothing will be impossible to us who are in the Kingdom. Anything that you can imagine and much more will be possible to you. Bathe in the sun? take a ride on an electron? Be in many places all at the same time, limitless, boundless, and existing as Agape Love one with another in a realm that only we can dream of now for it is much larger than this mere universe that is seen.
This is my small, limited, vision but is seems to expand every now and then.

Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

 

[Samson2020]

Are there Scripture to support your idea.

I thought the Kingdom would be a physical experience. Jesus said to the apostles,"you will rule over the 12 tribes of Isreal."...... what does this mean?

Are there any discriptions/Scriptures of what a Physical Kingdom would be like?

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus is no longer human as He has become a life giving Spirit. We know that when He appears we shall see Him as He is for
we shall be like Him. Those in the kingdom during the reign will rule over Israel in the flesh, but they themselves will not be flesh and blood for the corruptible body of flesh has
been changed to incorruptible spirit at the last trump, first resurrection of His Church. 1 Co 15:50, 1 Co 15:45, 1 Jo 3:2

 

[B-A-C]

I thought the Kingdom would be a physical experience. Jesus said to the apostles,"you will rule over the 12 tribes of Isreal."...... what does this mean?

Are there any discriptions/Scriptures of what a Physical Kingdom would be like?

It is both, yes there is scripture to support a physical version.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

People who died before the resurection, how will they be saved?

They're saved the same way we are....By faith.

 

[rhern53]

Luke 24:

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Zechariah 14

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives

9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

 

[B-A-C]

Rev 21:10-25; give the physical specifications of the New Jerusalem.

 

[Reba1]

Rev 21:10-25; give the physical specifications of the New Jerusalem.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

 

[rhern53]

Rev 21:10-25; give the physical specifications of the New Jerusalem.

yes it does..... but this is the new heaven and the new earth the new jeruslem in heaven. this is after the 1000year reign

Zechariah 14 is the beginning of the thousand year reign with Christ. Jesus feet stands on the mount of Olives. Verse 9 He declares He is King over all the earth

 

[B-A-C]

yes it does..... but this is the new heaven and the new earth the new jeruslem in heaven. this is after the 1000year reign

No argument, my point was... some things in the "kingdom of heaven" are physical, and have physical dimensions, no matter the time period.

 

[Reba1]

No argument, my point was... some things in the "kingdom of heaven" are physical, and have physical dimensions, no matter the time period.

This is the only definition of the Kingdom of God i find in Scripture. How do you get anything physical from it?

Rom_14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

 

[B-A-C]

Heb 9:21; And in the same way he sprinkled both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry with the blood.
Heb 9:22; And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.
Heb 9:23; Therefore it was necessary for the copies of the things in the heavens to be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 9:24; For Christ did not enter a holy place made with hands, a mere copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;

The tabernacle that the Israelites built, with a courtyard this long, and this kind of wood, and this much gold, with curtians this color, etc..
1King 7:13-51; 2Chron 4:1-22; 1Chron 28:19; etc...
As a copy of the one in heaven.

 

[Samson2020]

Luke 24:

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Zechariah 14

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives

9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

If you look closely at John 21:4, John 20:14-16, Luke 24:13-31, you will see that He would or could reveal Himself when and to whom He wanted. These examples show that He had the
ability to appear as someone other than whom they knew in the flesh.
Now in the last example Luke 24:31 it says He vanished from their sight. A true human cannot do that, but someone that had the ability to put on or off a body at will could. Let us also
keep in mind that His final ascension had not taken place during the time frame those verses you gave.

As far as Zechariah is concerned all I can give is that the group that are with Him at that day are unable to be hurt. There is a vision of this found in Joel 2:1-8 especially 8 this is not a
characteristic of a human being.

"Paul has stated that it doth not yet appear what we shall be but we know that we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is." The corruptible flesh must put on incorruption
and this happens at the rising of the dead and gathering of the living elect.

I would also say that God who is a Spirit is spoken of as having hands, feet, Hind parts, arms etc.... so we may just have to wait and see what these spiritual body parts are and what they appear as.

In closing I'll add one more thought, that being that, the human eye can only see 3% of the visible light spectrum. In order for them, in that day, to see the Lord and His army, this
group has to be in a form that would allow the human eye to see them.

 

[Reba1]

@B-A-C Yes Heaven holds the Truth the real .. Do you believe it will be rebuilt again when our God and High Priest says

It was Moses that was given the pattern out of heaven ... Some thing i often see over looked in forums is the Tabernacle of David...

Joh 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
Joh 2:20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
Joh 2:21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
Joh 2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Act_7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act_17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

Amo_9:11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
Act_15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

MUCH paraphrasing here ...The Tabernacle of David was a simple tent covering the Ark on the arc was the Mercy seat the Mercy Seat was where the presence of God rested.

I truly find the Word of God interesting in this as one of many factors .. B-A-C and i love the Lord yet we see/read His Word differently, both believing we are taught by Him. To me seeing, thinking or believing the Word differently ( with in Christian parameters of course )does not make some one WRONG just different as our own children think differently.

 

[rhern53]

If you look closely at John 21:4, John 20:14-16, Luke 24:13-31, you will see that He would or could reveal Himself when and to whom He wanted. These examples show that He had the
As far as Zechariah is concerned all I can give is that the group that are with Him at that day are unable to be hurt. There is a vision of this found in Joel 2:1-8 especially 8 this is not a
characteristic of a human being.

"Paul has stated that it doth not yet appear what we shall be but we know that we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is." The corruptible flesh must put on incorruption
and this happens at the rising of the dead and gathering of the living elect.

I would also say that God who is a Spirit is spoken of as having hands, feet, Hind parts, arms etc.... so we may just have to wait and see what these spiritual body parts are and what they appear as.

In closing I'll add one more thought, that being that, the human eye can only see 3% of the visible light spectrum. In order for them, in that day, to see the Lord and His army, this
group has to be in a form that would allow the human eye to see them.

 

[rhern53]

As far as Zechariah is concerned all I can give is that the group that are with Him at that day are unable to be hurt. There is a vision of this found in Joel 2:1-8 especially 8 this is not a
characteristic of a human being.


"Paul has stated that it doth not yet appear what we shall be but we know that we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is." The corruptible flesh must put on incorruption
and this happens at the rising of the dead and gathering of the living elect.

I would also say that God who is a Spirit is spoken of as having hands, feet, Hind parts, arms etc.... so we may just have to wait and see what these spiritual body parts are and what they appear as.

In closing I'll add one more thought, that being that, the human eye can only see 3% of the visible light spectrum. In order for them, in that day, to see the Lord and His army, this
group has to be in a form that would allow the human eye to see them.

Looks like there was pain:

Zechariah 14

2“For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.”

12“And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.”


Joel 2 was of reflection of the Isrealites escaping Egypt.

Joel 2 :

4The appearance of them is as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run.

5Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.

6Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.


Exodus 19:4

“Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.”

Exodus 14:9

“But the Egyptians pursued after them, all the horses and chariots of Pharaoh, and his horsemen, and his army, and overtook them encamping by the sea, beside Pihahiroth, before Baalzephon.”

Lamentations 4:19 tOur persecutors are swifter than the eagles of the heaven: they pursued us upon the mountains, they laid wait for us in the wilderness.

Jeremiah 4:13 Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled.

Guess they did have physical bodies.

 

[Samson2020]

Joel 2 begins with 1-... for the day of the LORD cometh.....10- the sun and the moon shall be dark and the stars shall withdraw their shining. This is a vision of the Day of the LORD. Not
escape from Egypt as the Israelites never FOUGHT with the Egyptians during their exodus.

These things are spiritually discerned, but this is really plain stuff.