Is Hell just separation from God or a place of horrendous eternal punishment as the Bible states?

[KingJ]

For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

God's judgement is righteous. Good. Just. IE No torture, ever.

Paul tells us in 1 Cor 6:1-8 that we will one-day judge angels. That we should be able to judge matters between ourselves. Do you think he will be impressed with you if you said to someone like Stalin who has killed millions, '''torture him, eye for an eye, burn him in a brazen bull for ten days'''. I can promise you that Paul and all those present with him will look at you in bewilderment. He would not be impressed with your discernment. (If that is what you are proposing).

2 Thessalonians 1:5-10 (KJV)
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Flaming fire. Not smoker.

Question: ''How long does it take to die from being burnt alive''

Answer: While your body may not fully DIE for some time, your brain will be able to tell within 20–30 seconds that death is imminent (you will black out after only a few seconds, but your brain will not have decided on ‘death’, yet), and it will shut down all consciousness and voluntary nerve messages so to save itself from going mad. Then your body will burn up without your brain knowing about it. You can look that up in a neurology textbook from the library.
https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-it-take-to-die-from-being-burned-alive

 

[KingJ]

We could just keep it simple.....Hell IS a horrendous place.....where the inhabitants are eternally separated from God.

God does not make horrendous places. The devil does. There is no darkness in God at all 1 John 1:5. That IS the gospel we have heard from the beginning.

In comparison to heaven, yes and argument can be made. Heaven will be a place where God can show us the fullness of His love and power. We will have mansions we can only dream of. All in hell will miss out on this.

If we consider the fact that nobody is repentant. Everyone, even venial sinners are unrepentant. Yes an argument with that in mind can be made for 'horrendous'.

But, NOT from anything God has put there or done. God will make a home for a creation He still loves. There is only hatred of sin in God. Not a hatred of any of His creation.

God tells us to love our enemies, but He....hates His? I think not.

 

[KingJ]

Guys, remember, we worship God in heaven because He is good. We want to worship Him. We grasp how good and loving He is.

Nobody worships Him because He is simply 'the guy in charge'. People in hell weep and gnash their teeth because they will not be with the most amazing Being in the universe.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Google the Geneva convention. If you propose God will be like the Russians at that time that never signed it, you are miss-representing Him.

check out a new OP i posted on the topic of love and wrath.,

 

[Sue D.]

Guys, remember, we worship God in heaven because He is good. We want to worship Him. We grasp how good and loving He is.

Nobody worships Him because He is simply 'the guy in charge'. People in hell weep and gnash their teeth because they will not be with the most amazing Being in the universe.

Well -- God is HOLY. Loving and Holy. And That is why we should be worshipping Him.

 

[Dovegiven]

God does not make horrendous places. The devil does. There is no darkness in God at all 1 John 1:5. That IS the gospel we have heard from the beginning.

I won't entertain the idea of Satan being a creator. The fathered lies. God made Hell and the lake of fire to hold and punish Satan and all who follow him there. He spoke it all into being, even black holes out there recycling matter.

 

[KingJ]

I won't entertain the idea of Satan being a creator. The fathered lies. God made Hell and the lake of fire to hold and punish Satan and all who follow him there. He spoke it all into being, even black holes out there recycling matter.

Dove, you are missing the point.

 

[B-A-C]

Guys, remember, we worship God in heaven because He is good. We want to worship Him. We grasp how good and loving He is.

Nobody worships Him because He is simply 'the guy in charge'. People in hell weep and gnash their teeth because they will not be with the most amazing Being in the universe.

Punishing people does not make someone "bad". In fact never punishing anyone would make someone a bad parent, or even a bad judge.
Not only do we need to grasp His love, we need to grasp His holiness.

People are already without God, they don't care. They aren't gnashing their teeth. They are fine being without Him.
People do come to God and worship Him because they fear Him and they fear eternity in hell. That may not be the reason for everyone, but it is for many people.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

Well -- seems that a person can talk a subject to death. And it kind of feels like That's what we've been doing.

 

[B-A-C]

God didn't create heaven just so wicked people could go there too. Some people have the notion God is love and that's ALL He is.
God is Holy, Righteous, Pure. Without the blood of Jesus covering us, we have no hope of ever being with Him.

God doesn't want wicked people in heaven. This life is place to see where your heart is. There are wicked people, and there are righteous people.
Only one of those two groups will make it to heaven.

Some people seem to be obsessed with judging whether God is good or bad. He is "bad" if He doesn't meet their expectations. The world is full of people
that God didn't meet their expectations... my child died, I lost my job, my wife left me, therefore God is not good.

It seems these same people never think about the evil that people do. Rulers, dictators, and fuhrers. that tortured and killed millions of people.
People are raped, robbed, murdered, put into slavery. Innocent people have their lives ripped from them. Selfish people lie and steal.
For all the millions and millions of people treated wickedly over the centuries, do you think God doesn't see? Do you think God doesn't hear their cries?

The wicked will be punished. False teachers, false prophets will be among them. They people that kill, steal and destroy... the people that lead others astray...
they will drink of the cup of the wrath of God... in full measure.

This is the same God that told his people to kill entire cities of people. To kill the women and babies, because they believed in other gods.
This is the same Jesus that said, if they don't accept what you say.. wipe the dust from your feet and move on.
Yes, God is love... but not to the point that He will compromise His holiness. Not to the point He will share you with another god.
Not to the point He will allow the wicked to live with Him.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

God didn't create heaven just so wicked people could go there too. Some people have the notion God is love and that's ALL He is.
God is Holy, Righteous, Pure. Without the blood of Jesus covering us, we have no hope of ever being with Him.

God doesn't want wicked people in heaven. This life is place to see where your heart is. There are wicked people, and there are righteous people.
Only one of those two groups will make it to heaven.

Some people seem to be obsessed with judging whether God is good or bad. He is "bad" if He doesn't meet their expectations. The world is full of people
that God didn't meet their expectations... my child died, I lost my job, my wife left me, therefore God is not good.

It seems these same people never think about the evil that people do. Rulers, dictators, and fuhrers. that tortured and killed millions of people.
People are raped, robbed, murdered, put into slavery. Innocent people have their lives ripped from them. Selfish people lie and steal.
For all the millions and millions of people treated wickedly over the centuries, do you think God doesn't see? Do you think God doesn't hear their cries?

The wicked will be punished. False teachers, false prophets will be among them. They people that kill, steal and destroy... the people that lead others astray...
they will drink of the cup of the wrath of God... in full measure.

This is the same God that told his people to kill entire cities of people. To kill the women and babies, because they believed in other gods.
This is the same Jesus that said, if they don't accept what you say.. wipe the dust from your feet and move on.
Yes, God is love... but not to the point that He will compromise His holiness. Not to the point He will share you with another god.
Not to the point He will allow the wicked to live with Him.

yep - you might like to have a look at my new post The Love and Wrath of God!

 

[Sue D.]

B A C -- you stated that very well.

 

[KingJ]

Punishing people does not make someone "bad". In fact never punishing anyone would make someone a bad parent, or even a bad judge. Not only do we need to grasp His love, we need to grasp His holiness.

Never punishing anyone makes a bad parent? Guess all Christians need punishment then?

People are already without God, they don't care. They aren't gnashing their teeth. They are fine being without Him.

According to Luke 13:28 being without God / cast out is the reason they weep and gnash their teeth.

Nobody is without God right now. His love is in this world. Animals, innocent and sweet children, selfless people, Christians, Holy Spirit.

People do come to God and worship Him because they fear Him and they fear eternity in hell. That may not be the reason for everyone, but it is for many people.

Nobody who serves God out of fear is a true Christian. If God was overthrown they would simply serve the new god. God is not a fool who grafts half hearted followers into heaven.

 

[Sue D.]

@KingJ -- where do you get Your theology from?!

A born-again believer / Christian / Does experience conviction by the Holy Spirit when they are thinking about their various activities if they are going to be displeasing to Him.
So, yes, Christians Can need punishment. No one is sinless while on this earth. We are All sinners and lots of us are sinners who have been 'saved by grace'.

It's only in hell that people will be gnashing their teeth and weeping. Many non-believers are content, happy people. And That's why it can be hard to convince them that they Do need a Savior.

God's Presence is in this world. But plenty of people are without God. You listed the Holy Spirit with the group of other people who are loved by God. Why include the Holy Spirit?

Well - since God Can't Be over-thrown -- it's a mute comment. The only 'new' god would be a man-made one that wasn't real. The Old Testament names a few of them. But they were all false / non-existent 'gods'.

"Fear" Can bring a person To God. Some people have to be faced with the reality Of a future hell / lake of fire and brimstone in order To accept Christ. But, having Accepted Christ - that fear will be Gone.

There's a difference between someone who has a half-hearted attitude and one who is truly fearful of God. I've been around that 'half-hearted' attitude on Forums and once in a while in person.
They will shrug off anything that's being said to them. But ya never know what's really sinking in. And ya also never know who else is listening and taking God seriously.

 

[KingJ]

A born-again believer / Christian / Does experience conviction by the Holy Spirit when they are thinking about their various activities if they are going to be displeasing to Him.
So, yes, Christians Can need punishment. No one is sinless while on this earth. We are All sinners and lots of us are sinners who have been 'saved by grace'.

Agreed. What was this in reply to?

It's only in hell that people will be gnashing their teeth and weeping. Many non-believers are content, happy people. And That's why it can be hard to convince them that they Do need a Savior.

Agreed

God's Presence is in this world. But plenty of people are without God. You listed the Holy Spirit with the group of other people who are loved by God. Why include the Holy Spirit?

The point was that the wicked are not entirely apart from the love of God. His goodness and love is all around them.

Well - since God Can't Be over-thrown -- it's a mute comment. The only 'new' god would be a man-made one that wasn't real. The Old Testament names a few of them. But they were all false / non-existent 'gods'.

The principle is valid. It is not a moot argument. Do you think God would graft us in if He believed we only served out of fear of ''burning in fire''.

Imagine giving that kind of advice to your daughter looking for a husband. ''My sweety, you better marry that guy else you will burn in fire for eternity''', uhm ok mom. Sure thing.

"Fear" Can bring a person To God. Some people have to be faced with the reality Of a future hell / lake of fire and brimstone in order To accept Christ. But, having Accepted Christ - that fear will be Gone.

Fear can be a driving factor, yes. Like fear of not having children can motivate you to applying yourself to find a spouse. Fear has nothing to with loyalty though. Laying your life down Matt 16:24 as God has done for us and requires of us, has everything to do with loyalty. God tests us for this Jer 17:9-11.

 

[Sue D.]

I have two daughters who were marriageable age. Our concern was for them to have Christian friends and boyfriends. No one was going to be possibly 'burning in hell" because they aren't married.

People are Born single -- nothing says anyone Has to marry. But God Has put that desire in our hearts so that the next generation can be born.

You were commenting about Christians and being punished.

 

[Dovegiven]

yep - you might like to have a look at my new post The Love and Wrath of God!

You won't find me even clicking on any of your threads! You are marked.

 

[Dovegiven]

Never punishing anyone makes a bad parent? Guess all Christians need punishment then?



According to Luke 13:28 being without God / cast out is the reason they weep and gnash their teeth.

Nobody is without God right now. His love is in this world. Animals, innocent and sweet children, selfless people, Christians, Holy Spirit.



Nobody who serves God out of fear is a true Christian. If God was overthrown they would simply serve the new god. God is not a fool who grafts half hearted followers into heaven.

Jude 1:14-25 (KJV)
14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[Dovegiven]

Agreed. What was this in reply to?

Agreed

The point was that the wicked are not entirely apart from the love of God. His goodness and love is all around them.

The principle is valid. It is not a moot argument. Do you think God would graft us in if He believed we only served out of fear of ''burning in fire''.

Imagine giving that kind of advice to your daughter looking for a husband. ''My sweety, you better marry that guy else you will burn in fire for eternity''', uhm ok mom. Sure thing.

Fear can be a driving factor, yes. Like fear of not having children can motivate you to applying yourself to find a spouse. Fear has nothing to with loyalty though. Laying your life down Matt 16:24 as God has done for us and requires of us, has everything to do with loyalty. God tests us for this Jer 17:9-11.

Christians must lay their lives down like Jesus did?

False doctrine!

False teaching!

Not one of His is required to pay the price Jesus paid for us! Otherwise, self sacrifice is required instead of that of Jesus. He paid it for us!

What is going on here?

CHALLENGE the Devil, saints! Don't just sit there letting such egregious lying go on! That poster is a false teacher.

 

[Victor Van Heerden]

but if you reject Jesus, you reject LIFE

Yep - that's the gospel.