• Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community.

    Join over 10,000 members today

    Register Log In

  • Hi Guest!

    I've added a brand new "Night Mode" option to our site design. I'd greatly appreciate your vote on this poll here.

    To switch to or from Light / Night mode simply click on Site Menu icon on top and on the dropdown choose "Switch to Night Mode" or "Switch to Light Mode"

    Thank you.

The Love and Wrath of God!

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:6)

The Love and Wrath of God! Today in our “politically correct” world and “ear-tickling listener friendly” preaching the scripturally sound, millennia old, doctrine of the “Wrath of God” has fallen on hard times. It would seem that any concept of God’s wrath is down played.

“How can the concept of an eternal torment in biblical hell come from a good God?” “Why would God command the Israelite to completely obliterate their enemies (men, woman, children, animals etc)?” “Why does God always seem so angry?”

Well like a two sided coin the very essence of God is Love and Wrath. We know this from the Bible and the Old Testament and even the New Testament. In fact a study of any concordance will show that there are more references in Holy Scripture to the anger, fury, and Wrath of God, than there are to His Love and tenderness. For instance in the OT we read from the book of Nahum who was the prophet that saw the approaching complete and final destruction of Nineveh the capital of the great, mighty and flourishing Assyrian empire.

The Lord is a jealous and avenging God; the Lord is avenging and wrathful; the Lord takes vengeance on his adversaries and keeps wrath for his enemies.” (Nahum 1:2)


We now know from His Word and this verse that God is jealous, He does not hesitate to punish people that are responsible for doing something bad to him, with all of his wrathful might, power and authority. The Wrath of God is no trifling matter especially if you are his enemy. It’s much better to be his friend. The Wrath of God is His eternal detestation of all unrighteousness. It is the displeasure and indignation of Godly equity against evil. It is the holiness of God stirred into activity against sin. It is the moving cause of that just sentence which He passes upon evil-doers. God is angry against sin because it is a rebelling against His authority, a wrong done to His inviolable sovereignty.

The Apostle Paul of the ascended Christ knew this and tells us in Hebrews 10:31 that: "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Why is it fearful? (Notice that this in the NT) Surely God is good, loving and kind? Yes He is to his own but to his enemies he is Wrath personified. In Romans Paul explains:

For the Wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.” (Romans 1:18)

Apostle John tells us: From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the wine press of the fury of the Wrath of God the Almighty. (Revelation 19:15)

God will rule with a rod of iron and he will tread the wine press of the fury of the Wrath of God the All Mighty. Iron crushes every thing under its hardness, strength and weight. A wine press exerts tonnes of pressure while it crushes the juice out of grapes with the leftovers discarded. No wonder Paul says that is the terror of the Lord that causes him to preach the gospel to all men. Not the Love, or the goodness or the kindness - nope the Terror of the Lord.

"Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord we persuade men." 2 Cor 5:11

Even so God’s Wrath is His Love in action against the wicked that are caught in sin and if we want to escape eternal torment in hell we need to appeal to His love before it is too late. If we are caught in our sin and our own righteousness we will face the full Wrath of All Mighty God for we have spurned his love. If you are not in His love you will be in His Wrath. That is the Gospel of Paul. No middle road - one or the other.

We need to respond to God’s great love by repentance (change our ways) believe “IN” and proclaim outwardly that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour and we become a new creation IN Christ. God has given a way through his great Love for us in sacrificing His Son Jesus Christ so that we can escape the terrific and horrendous Wrath of God. Wrath deservedly meant for us was poured out by an angry God on an innocent Jesus Christ (The lamb of God) on the cross, explicitly so that we might escape the Wrath of God.

Jn 3;16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”

Hell is not only separation or absence from God’s Love it is experiencing the Full Wrath of All Mighty God for eternity. Not a nice place to be by any stretch of the imagination. So maybe Dante’s depiction of hell was not so far fetched after all.

Of interest:

“Wrath” is an old English word defined in my dictionary as “deep, intense anger and indignation”.

“Anger” is defined as “stirring of resentful displeasure and strong antagonism, by a sense of injury or insult”;

“Indignation” - “righteous anger aroused by injustice and baseness”.

Such is wrath. And Wrath, the Bible tells us, is an attribute of God - one to be feared with all our being if we not grounded in His love.
 
The Love and Wrath of God! Today in our “politically correct” world and “ear-tickling listener friendly” preaching the scripturally sound, millennia old, doctrine of the “Wrath of God” has fallen on hard times. It would seem that any concept of God’s wrath is down played.

“How can the concept of an eternal torment in biblical hell come from a good God?” “Why would God command the Israelite to completely obliterate their enemies (men, woman, children, animals etc)?” “Why does God always seem so angry?”

Well like a two sided coin the very essence of God is Love and Wrath. We know this from the Bible and the Old Testament and even the New Testament. In fact a study of any concordance will show that there are more references in Holy Scripture to the anger, fury, and Wrath of God, than there are to His Love and tenderness. For instance in the OT we read from the book of Nahum who was the prophet that saw the approaching complete and final destruction of Nineveh the capital of the great, mighty and flourishing Assyrian empire.

The Lord is a jealous and avenging God; the Lord is avenging and wrathful; the Lord takes vengeance on his adversaries and keeps wrath for his enemies.” (Nahum 1:2)


We now know from His Word and this verse that God is jealous, He does not hesitate to punish people that are responsible for doing something bad to him, with all of his wrathful might, power and authority. The Wrath of God is no trifling matter especially if you are his enemy. It’s much better to be his friend. The Wrath of God is His eternal detestation of all unrighteousness. It is the displeasure and indignation of Godly equity against evil. It is the holiness of God stirred into activity against sin. It is the moving cause of that just sentence which He passes upon evil-doers. God is angry against sin because it is a rebelling against His authority, a wrong done to His inviolable sovereignty.

The Apostle Paul of the ascended Christ knew this and tells us in Hebrews 10:31 that: "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Why is it fearful? (Notice that this in the NT) Surely God is good, loving and kind? Yes He is to his own but to his enemies he is Wrath personified. In Romans Paul explains:

For the Wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.” (Romans 1:18)

Apostle John tells us: From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the wine press of the fury of the Wrath of God the Almighty. (Revelation 19:15)

God will rule with a rod of iron and he will tread the wine press of the fury of the Wrath of God the All Mighty. Iron crushes every thing under its hardness, strength and weight. A wine press exerts tonnes of pressure while it crushes the juice out of grapes with the leftovers discarded. No wonder Paul says that is the terror of the Lord that causes him to preach the gospel to all men. Not the Love, or the goodness or the kindness - nope the Terror of the Lord.

"Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord we persuade men." 2 Cor 5:11

Even so God’s Wrath is His Love in action against the wicked that are caught in sin and if we want to escape eternal torment in hell we need to appeal to His love before it is too late. If we are caught in our sin and our own righteousness we will face the full Wrath of All Mighty God for we have spurned his love. If you are not in His love you will be in His Wrath. That is the Gospel of Paul. No middle road - one or the other.

We need to respond to God’s great love by repentance (change our ways) believe “IN” and proclaim outwardly that Jesus Christ is Lord and Saviour and we become a new creation IN Christ. God has given a way through his great Love for us in sacrificing His Son Jesus Christ so that we can escape the terrific and horrendous Wrath of God. Wrath deservedly meant for us was poured out by an angry God on an innocent Jesus Christ (The lamb of God) on the cross, explicitly so that we might escape the Wrath of God.

Jn 3;16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.”

Hell is not only separation or absence from God’s Love it is experiencing the Full Wrath of All Mighty God for eternity. Not a nice place to be by any stretch of the imagination. So maybe Dante’s depiction of hell was not so far fetched after all.

Of interest:

“Wrath” is an old English word defined in my dictionary as “deep, intense anger and indignation”.

“Anger” is defined as “stirring of resentful displeasure and strong antagonism, by a sense of injury or insult”;

“Indignation” - “righteous anger aroused by injustice and baseness”.

Such is wrath. And Wrath, the Bible tells us, is an attribute of God - one to be feared with all our being if we not grounded in His love.

I posted this as the other discussion on hell has become a bit long to follow all the comments for some one like myself a bit long in the tooth.
 
Active Member
Top Poster Of Month
For the Wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.” (Romans 1:18)

This verse you quoted is interesting. Note how it says ''His wrath is revealed''. His wrath is brought forth. His wrath comes about. WHEN? When people are very wicked. All types of wickedness. Their wickedness suppresses the truth. They suppress the truth. They reject Jesus. They provoke God. They tempt God.
 
Active Member
Top Poster Of Month
Well like a two sided coin the very essence of God is Love and Wrath. We know this from the Bible and the Old Testament and even the New Testament.
This is a false statement.

God is not wrath and love at the same time. He is one coin with only love on both sides. Wrath is a product of His love.

His wrath is manifested in 1. Instant destruction of the wicked, 2. plagues on the wicked.

1. In the case if instant destruction, His wrath is simply relocation to a home He has prepared for them. It is a logistics issue as you cannot have wolves with lambs. Placing wolves with lambs would be wicked to the lambs.
2. In the case of plagues, His wrath is simply Him trying to get a person to stop their rebellion / get them to heaven. He sends plague after plague increasing in severities to try and get those not yet sold out to wickedness to repent. A simple read of Revelations plagues and those on Egypt reveals this truth. IE Very tough love.

God has no pleasure in seeing the wicked die. Ezek 18:23 Do you think that I like to see wicked people die? says the Sovereign LORD. Of course not! I want them to turn from their wicked ways and live.
 
Last edited:
Active Member
Top Poster Of Month
We have to look at the examples of God's wrath and grasp them in context of eternity and try our level best to grasp why God is so concerned for us not being with Him in heaven.

I believe it is simply because He is able to ''fully'' smother us in His love. We who have from free will chosen to serve Him. It is the reason He has wanted humans and angels. His plan is complete and He can now not hold back any plans, any adventures, any love, any conversations, any experiences. Friends, family with God of the universe for all eternity.

Those in hell have from free will chosen to not be with God. Only in hell do they grasp what that entails. An eternity apart from God is the shocker. It is scarier then any '''temporary plague''. Scarier then any quick drowning or burning in fire. Eternal separation is the most terrifying thing in the universe. Because when you are separated, you grasp what God is doing for those who love Him. Luke 13:28 ''Weep and gnash teeth when they look up and see they are cast out''.

God is good / loving to those in hell in that He has allowed them to exercise their free will to not be with Him. They can be with the devil. The other shocker for them is when they realize the reality of being surrounded by people who just don't want to ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever repent.

A more appropriate coin description that works with God is a coin with one side of Joy and the other Sadness.
 
Active Member
Top Poster Of Month
We now know from His Word and this verse that God is jealous, He does not hesitate to punish people that are responsible for doing something bad to him, with all of his wrathful might, power and authority.
He is not a man that should hesitate as He grasp men's hearts. But were He a man, He would be the epitome if hesitation. It took 50-120 years before the extremely wicked at the time of Noah drowned. God is longsuffering. Merciful. Patient and has made a way of escape for all His enemy. They need simply repent.

The Wrath of God is no trifling matter especially if you are his enemy. It’s much better to be his friend.
You need to look closer at who His enemy is and whom His friends are. An enemy to God is someone who loves what is wicked Rom 12:9, John 3:19. IE Someone who likes to rape little girls. Someone who likes to torture. Someone who likes to steal from an orphan. His friends are those who desire to like Him, turn the left cheek. Help orphans and widows. Love their enemy. Do good to those who hurt them.
 
Active Member
Top Poster Of Month
The Apostle Paul of the ascended Christ knew this and tells us in Hebrews 10:31 that: "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
It is fearful because it is judgement day with your Maker. You have disappointed Him and you know it. There are no loving arms for you. Just an escort taking you to hell.

Why is it fearful? (Notice that this in the NT) Surely God is good, loving and kind? Yes He is to his own but to his enemies he is Wrath personified. In Romans Paul explains:
What is wrathful personified? Are you insinuating evil personified? He is evil personified to His enemies? No. He tells us to love our enemies James 5:44, as He loves His (he is not a hypocrite). When I think of evil personified I think of someone like a serial rapist. Or those that will get hold of Christians and torture them for ten days Rev 2:10. Or the devil beating and crucifying Jesus. After Jesus just politely entertained his tests on not one but three occasions in the wilderness.

Apostle John tells us: From his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron. He will tread the wine press of the fury of the Wrath of God the Almighty. (Revelation 19:15)

God will rule with a rod of iron and he will tread the wine press of the fury of the Wrath of God the All Mighty. Iron crushes every thing under its hardness, strength and weight. A wine press exerts tonnes of pressure while it crushes the juice out of grapes with the leftovers discarded. No wonder Paul says that is the terror of the Lord that causes him to preach the gospel to all men. Not the Love, or the goodness or the kindness - nope the Terror of the Lord.
Rev 19 is talking to the millennium. Rod of iron speaks to His holiness, justice and goodness. It is holy to be good. It is holy to be loving. It is just to judge properly. Especially when none of creation are perfect like you Mark 10:18. Iron is symbolic of the fact that He does not budge on who He is. He is who He is.

As for management style in the millennium, rod of iron also talks to a no toleration on sinners policy. A policy that according Micah 4 we will help enforce. Now, I can promise you that just as God enforced the law on the Jews in the OT, so too will we enforce it on them in the millennium. Otherwise we would be partial? God hates partiality. He is impartial Acts 10:34. What this means is a split between venial and mortal sins. A read of Lev 20 gives us a good idea of what to expect.
 
You need to look closer at who His enemy is and whom His friends are. An enemy to God is someone who loves what is wicked Rom 12:9, John 3:19. IE Someone who likes to rape little girls. Someone who likes to torture. Someone who likes to steal from an orphan. His friends are those who desire to like Him, turn the left cheek. Help orphans and widows. Love their enemy. Do good to those who hurt them.
Nope - the scripture teaches that the enemy of God is someone who spurns His love. Who does not accept Him as Lord and Saviour. The best man on earth, who never lies, never cheats on his wife, on his taxes, at his work, never rapes, never hurts a fly etc will burn in hell fire if he has been found in his own righteousness and not that of Christ - if he is NOT born again. You need to look into the Gospel of Jesus Christ and as taught by Paul.
 
Last edited:
Preaching ''God is cruel and wrathful'' and cherry picking many bible verses is '''lazy''' Christianity.
I never said anywhere that God is cruel. The Holy Scripture teaches about God'd wrath. Not me. Not anybody. No one is allowed to add or diminish anything found in the Word of God. From my OP " In fact a study of any concordance will show that there are more references in Holy Scripture to the anger, fury, and Wrath of God, than there are to His Love and tenderness. "
 
Active Member
Top Poster Of Month
The best man on earth, who never lies, never cheats on his wife, on his taxes, at his work, never rapes, never hurts a fly etc will burn in hell fire
Not true. The verdict is that people reject Jesus because they love the darkness. John 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

The best man on earth, who never lies, never cheats on his wife, on his taxes, at his work, never rapes, never hurts a fly etc will burn in hell fire if he has been found in his own righteousness and not that of Christ - if he is NOT born again. You need to look into the Gospel of Jesus Christ and as taught by Paul.
It is true that we cannot come to the Father but by Jesus John 14:6. But we have to understand why. Nobody can call Jesus Lord unless God reveals this truth to them 1 Cor 12:3, Matt 16:16-17. God only reveals Jesus / grafts someone into His family / washes them and makes them new born again creations IF they pass His judgement of their heart and mind Jer 17:9-11 for sincerity of repentance Psalm 51:17, ability to lay their lives down for Him as He did for us Matt 16:24, true selflessness James 1:27, are after His heart Rom 12:9 Let love be genuine, hate what is wicked and cling to what is good.

Always remember how God chose Abraham, David and all the OT prophets. David was a man after God's heart. Why? How?

Someone like you who knows the scripture well needs to be very cautious of miss-representing God with it. I believe that some of the harshest punishments are reserved for such individuals. I do believe in a punishment for sin. Like lashes or something. There is initial punishment in hell and then eternal separation (I have scripture for this if you want to discuss in the other thread). See my thread here warning against false teaching False teachers.
 
Last edited:
Active Member
Top Poster Of Month
Last edited:
Active Member
Top Poster Of Month
No one is afraid of judgement it s the fear of what the judgement brings in this case eternal anguish in hell.

Nope - There is no greater wrath in the universe than the WRATH of God. God is NOT evil he is goodness personified.
Please read Gen 18. Abraham interrogates God on His wrath on Sodom. Then also read Exod 32 where Moses interrogates God's wrath on those Israelites worshiping the golden calf.

Two very good men. Respected by many as being good, upright individuals. They both challenged God's judgement. They both agreed that God's judgement and wrath was good and necessary.

What is important to grasp is that if you are a good person, you will also, when having all the facts before you, grasp and agree with God's judgement and execution of His wrath. Just as Abraham and Moses did.
 

Similar threads


Top