Homosexuality

[Brother Paul]

In the OT there was a separation in death (Hades) between sinners. Some were in Abraham's bosom. Why? Why were sinners in death separated from other sinners in death?

Some had been declared righteous by God (had HIS righteousness - Matthew 6:33). They had trusted Him and His promise of a coming redeemer, therefore were saved by Grace through faith. The just(ified) shall live by faith. The Old Testament saints believed God not just in Him (and Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him as righteousness)...same as new Testament saints.

 

[Sue D.]

Both Abraham's bosom and the bad side of Hades are places in death. Why are you dodging the question?

I have been trying to help Sue understand the difference between two types of sinners. But you are smothering my simple point with loads and loads of unrelated points.

People could only escape ''death'' after the cross. When God said ''it is done''.

KingJ -- You are the one promoting two types of sinners / sins -- mortal / venial. Or maybe it's concerning the 'sin' of homosexuality ?! Mortal / venial sins are a RCC concept. You needn't continue trying to 'help me understand that' Okay ?!

Everyone dies -- unless 'we' are alive when the rapture takes place and then the born-again believers will be taken up to be with Jesus Christ. It's whether or not a person is 'in Christ' when they die. Abraham's bosom was for After death.

As a result Of the cross -- we are no longer slaves To sin. We are not longer doomed to hell for eternity.

A person is born 'alive' -- their 'spirit'/ soul. And that 'soul' will exist forever -- Either in heaven or hell. The Physical body -- up the death of a born-again believer will become 'glorified' like Jesus Christ's body died when He was resurrected from the dead.

 

[KingJ]

KingJ -- You are the one promoting two types of sinners / sins -- mortal / venial. Or maybe it's concerning the 'sin' of homosexuality ?! Mortal / venial sins are a RCC concept. You needn't continue trying to 'help me understand that' Okay ?!

Everyone dies -- unless 'we' are alive when the rapture takes place and then the born-again believers will be taken up to be with Jesus Christ. It's whether or not a person is 'in Christ' when they die. Abraham's bosom was for After death.

As a result Of the cross -- we are no longer slaves To sin. We are not longer doomed to hell for eternity.

A person is born 'alive' -- their 'spirit'/ soul. And that 'soul' will exist forever -- Either in heaven or hell. The Physical body -- up the death of a born-again believer will become 'glorified' like Jesus Christ's body died when He was resurrected from the dead.

I am the one promoting it? I think I have quoted a hundred scriptures speaking to it with all the posts I have on the topic. You cherry pick one or two scriptures or don't quote scripture.

You posted this:

Romans 3:23 "for All have Sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Being justified freely by His Grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Maybe -- instead of 'assuming' something -- go with what God's Word actually says. Because Assuming something is true -- doesn't Assure that it Is.

To which I asked, why was there two homes (one, two) for sinners in death in the OT?

I am still waiting for you to answer me. Logical, coherent answer please. You keep liking other posts, but none have dealt with it.

You quote scripture that says ''''ALL have sinned and falling short of the glory'''......yet the ''ÁLL'' in the OT were separated in death, why?

 

[KingJ]

Some had been declared righteous by God (had HIS righteousness - Matthew 6:33). They had trusted Him and His promise of a coming redeemer, therefore were saved by Grace through faith. The just(ified) shall live by faith. The Old Testament saints believed God not just in Him (and Abraham believed God and it was counted unto him as righteousness)...same as new Testament saints.

Nineveh? Did they trust like the Jews? Jonah's message to Nineveh was very simple. Repent or die. No faith / trust / obey Jewish laws.

Jonah 3:4 Then Jonah began to go through the city one day’s walk; and he cried out and said, “Yet forty days and Nineveh will be overthrown.”

Also, do you think a mortal sinner (Jew) about to be stoned could say ''I trust God / I believe in the coming Messiah'' and be spared?

You say ''some declared righteous by God''. Can you be more specific please. We need to understand why this was the case for them. You will see there are reasons. Like with David, God said ''there is a man after my own heart''. IE David hated what is wicked and clung to what is good.

Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness. But we need to understand this ''faith''.This was not a ''I believe in the Messiah, faith''. This was not a ''I believe God exists faith''. Let's be crystal clear on that. The faith Abraham had was in God and he desired to do what is good and right by this good God. Abraham, from reading Gen 18 was a good man. That is why he was chosen. Abraham tested God. Abraham knew that God was good. Just as David did in Psalm 136:1. It is this faith in God being good that enabled Abraham to sacrifice his son. He knew that this exceedingly good God had a very good and valid reason for asking such a thing of him. It was not ''I believe, I believe, I have faith, I have faith''. Faith in what? We always need to consider that question. Abraham would never had sacrificed his son if he believed baal was god. IE Abraham.....was a good man. Like David. They both hated what is wicked and clung to what is good, as Paul explains in Rom 12:9.

 

[B-A-C]

Nineveh? Did they trust like the Jews? Jonah's message to Nineveh was very simple. Repent or die. No faith / trust / obey Jewish laws.

Just curious. What does repent mean to you? What were they repenting from?

 

[KingJ]

Just curious. What does repent mean to you? What were they repenting from?

Nahum 3 explains their sins (sorcery, plunder, slavery). I think of them in context of Sodom. We know the sin of Sodom was great.

Gen 18:20 Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous''.

So, if God wanted to do to Nineveh what He did to Sodom, I would imagine it also being for sin so grievous.

If the report / outcry of His people on Nineveh was '''Dear Lord, it is reported that the people of Nineveh are allowing their kids to eat too much candy, the parents are watching and occasionally thinking of soft porn, there are some who swear a few times a day and do not repent. Please Lord, destroy them''. Do you think God's wrath would be en route?

If the Amalekites only thought about attacking and killing the Jews, would God's wrath had come upon them?

So, to answer your question. The people of Nineveh stopped and ceased from all mortal / grievous sin for a month. They and the animals fasted. After this, they continued to punish and deal with mortal / grievous sinners.

I am sure they repented of venial sins too. But we all know, you cannot abstain 100% from venial sin. Nobody can as Jesus explains in Matt 5:28.

 

[Sue D.]

@KingJ -- apparently you're equating Abrahams' bosom which has a compartment for O. T. non-believers and present-day non-believers with the existence of a place called purgatory. And when Jesus Christ died on the cross and went to Abraham's bosom to get the righteous of the Old Testament and bring them back up with Him when He resurrected bodily -- that they were 'purified' by the cross and , thus, able to be brought back by Him. Well -- If that's what you are thinking -- why weren't All the people in the Hades / Hell side brought back up Too?

The Haddes / place of torment -- whatever a person is calling That part of Abraham's bosom -- is the 'holding chamber' of All non-believers waiting for the great white throne judgement to take place and they will then be thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone.

Born-again believers / those in the Old Testament who looked Towards the coming cross of Christ / placed their faith in the Coming Messiah -- are Now with Jesus Christ. Those in the Old Testament had to wait For the cross to happen before they could actually Be with Jesus Christ.

So Your question apparently is what does 'righteousness' look like in Old Testament people. They believed in God even Before the cross. They were a Friend of God. Friends usually like to please one another. They aren't 'obeying commands' out of obligation to do so. They Want to.

I was just reading the passage in Jonah -- about the fasting of the people and the animals but there's nothing saying it lasted for a month and then ceased.

The king called for the people to repent and turn from their evil ways and from the violence that is in his hands. God saw that they were indeed repenting of their sins / wrong-doings and God relented from the disaster that He said He would bring upon them.

chapter 3 verse 5 -- So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them. Then word got to the king -- he took off his robe and covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes.

And in his role as king -- he proclaimed a fasting for all people and the animals.

And it sounds like you're associating Nahum 3 which I haven't look up -- sorcery, plunder, slavery -- with that of Sodom / Gomorrah. Well -- Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexuality. And That is sinning against your own body in a sexual way. So You're saying that since homosexuality is a different Kind of sin that Therefore venial and mortal sins are catagories Of sin?! Am I understanding you correctly?

Just rereading more of your post. The sins of Nineveh weren't Little sins like eating too much candy or watching mildly bad TV but BIG stuff. Degrees Of sin.

Well -- Maybe for Our sakes -- we need to realize that Sin is Sin and don't let Scripture rationalize For us.

For All Have Sinned and fall short of the glory Of God. The Physical result is death -- the Eternal result is eternity in lake of fire and Brimstone.

 

[Sue D.]

I am the one promoting it? I think I have quoted a hundred scriptures speaking to it with all the posts I have on the topic. You cherry pick one or two scriptures or don't quote scripture.

You posted this:


To which I asked, why was there two homes (one, two) for sinners in death in the OT?

I am still waiting for you to answer me. Logical, coherent answer please. You keep liking other posts, but none have dealt with it.

You quote scripture that says ''''ALL have sinned and falling short of the glory'''......yet the ''ÁLL'' in the OT were separated in death, why?

Oh, but I Do respond back in local, coherent answers -- you simply don't like my answers.

Everyone in both Old and New Testaments are separated from 'this' world by physical death. That's just because that's what Scripture Says happens. Unless a person is alive at the time that the rapture takes place. Then born-again believers will be with Jesus Christ without dying,

 

[KingJ]

-- apparently you're equating Abrahams' bosom which has a compartment for O. T. non-believers and present-day non-believers with the existence of a place called purgatory.

No I am not. Two separate matters.

Born-again believers / those in the Old Testament who looked Towards the coming cross of Christ / placed their faith in the Coming Messiah

How does one do that exactly? This is a popular saying with little to no thought applied to it.

So Your question apparently is what does 'righteousness' look like in Old Testament people. They believed in God even Before the cross. They were a Friend of God. Friends usually like to please one another. They aren't 'obeying commands' out of obligation to do so. They Want to.

Finally, you take a stab at the actual question I raised.

Would you say a person battling with a mortal sin can ever be called a friend of God?

 

[KingJ]

I was just reading the passage in Jonah -- about the fasting of the people and the animals but there's nothing saying it lasted for a month and then ceased.

It is debated if they fasted for 3 or 40 days.

The king called for the people to repent and turn from their evil ways and from the violence that is in his hands. God saw that they were indeed repenting of their sins / wrong-doings and God relented from the disaster that He said He would bring upon them.

And finally, you answered the question. God saw they ''''repented'''''.

The difference between the TWO sinners in DEATH in Hades was repentance. Once camp repented, the other did not. Psalm 51:17 was available to all in the OT. No ''friend of God, no faith in coming Messiah''. Just plain and simple truthful repentance.

Now, the next question.

Jesus says we are known by our fruits. Would you say someone continuing in a mortal sin is showing signs of truthful repentance from sin?

 

[KingJ]

And it sounds like you're associating Nahum 3 which I haven't look up -- sorcery, plunder, slavery -- with that of Sodom / Gomorrah. Well -- Sodom and Gomorrah was homosexuality. And That is sinning against your own body in a sexual way. So You're saying that since homosexuality is a different Kind of sin that Therefore venial and mortal sins are catagories Of sin?! Am I understanding you correctly?

No. Both towns were destroyed because of mortal sins. Sorcery and sodomy are both mortal sins.

Just rereading more of your post. The sins of Nineveh weren't Little sins like eating too much candy or watching mildly bad TV but BIG stuff. Degrees Of sin.

Correct. They were not destroyed because of their venial sin.

Well -- Maybe for Our sakes -- we need to realize that Sin is Sin and don't let Scripture rationalize For us.

Sin is sin and sin has degrees. If you place a fullstop after ''sin is sin'' it shows the entire bible is flying over your head. Why don't you start a new thread and in your OP make your scriptural case for ''no degrees of sin''. I would truly love to hear what scripture you would use to debunk degrees of sin.

For All Have Sinned and fall short of the glory Of God. The Physical result is death -- the Eternal result is eternity in lake of fire and Brimstone.

It is as though all the talk of repentant sinners split in death has now just been forgotten.

The verse you quoting is a separate issue from degrees of sin.

 

[Sue D.]

No I am not. Two separate matters.

How does one do that exactly? This is a popular saying with little to no thought applied to it.

Finally, you take a stab at the actual question I raised.

Would you say a person battling with a mortal sin can ever be called a friend of God?

This quoting feature doesn't always include all of the post -- that which I was Trying to refer to is about the Old Testament people looking Forward To the cross that the prophets talked about and how We look Back At the cross and either accept or reject that which has already taken place. Even the people living at the time OF the cross either accepted Christ or they rejected Him. The belief was either accepting that Jesus Christ was the Son of God or He wasn't.

God made Himself known back in the Old Testament in plentiful ways. Making their yearly blood sacrifices as they were told to. The tabernacle. Entering the holy of holies. They were looking Towards the Final sacrifice that Would be made.


Well -- repentence Is part of Salvation. But Why is a person repenting -- because they got Caught or because they are truly Sorry for what they did. And Who or What are they repenting To? The One True God or just 'some god'.

And does it really Matter how long they fasted? The fact is that they Did. They Did do both -- repented and then fasted.

Now to fruits of the Spirit -- has Nothing to do with what Kind of sin is being committed or Not. The fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, long-suffering, etc. Galations 5:22 -- kindness, goodness, faithfulness , gentleness, self-control.

Those are the characteristics a person will see in a person who Has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.

What I say / My opinion doesn't really matter -- what God's Word says does. When it's taken in it's context. Lifting passages Out of their intended context can cause some problems. People Have been known to lift a series of passages Out of their context -- put them together and come up with some really interesting results. the thought is that 'it's All God's Word -- so it can be used in any way 'we' want to.' One of the problems with That is that God's Word gets turned into Our Word'.

When a person repents -- they are showing sorrow for sin / or a particular Sin. They are turning from That sin -- as long as we are human beings here on this earth -- we Will end up sinning in some way. maybe being Prideful of only committing Little sins but not the Big ones. the point being that we are no longer Slaves to sin. Because Of the cross -- we Do have ability to say 'no'. But, do we Always say 'no' -- probably Not. So -- we pause and ask forgiveness.

I need to quite for now. Will continue later.

BTW -- I have No intention of 'battling' with you about 'degrees of sin'.

 

[KingJ]

Even the people living at the time OF the cross either accepted Christ or they rejected Him. The belief was either accepting that Jesus Christ was the Son of God or He wasn't.

Just utterly untrue. Jonah never preached Jesus to Nineveh. Please go and show me where he did.

God made Himself known back in the Old Testament in plentiful ways. Making their yearly blood sacrifices as they were told to. The tabernacle. Entering the holy of holies. They were looking Towards the Final sacrifice that Would be made.

Not sure what God revealing Himself has to do with anything. The devils believe He exists and they still sin James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

Well -- repentence Is part of Salvation. But Why is a person repenting -- because they got Caught or because they are truly Sorry for what they did. And Who or What are they repenting To? The One True God or just 'some god'.

A person does not have to repent to a / The God. They just have to '''repent''. When they do this, God draws near to them. James 4:8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.

And does it really Matter how long they fasted?

I would think it does, yes. Imagine it was recorded that they fasted for an hour. The fact that fasting was painful to them showed their dedication to repentance.

Now to fruits of the Spirit -- has Nothing to do with what Kind of sin is being committed or Not.

Are you sure about that?

Can a brother in incest as Paul explains in 1 Cor 5:1, show fruits of the Spirit? I think not.

Those are the characteristics a person will see in a person who Has accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.

When Paul accepted Jesus, he continued in venial sins (Rom 7:15) but put an outright stop to mortal sins (no more murdering).

We all have sin, so be honest with me. Do you commit venial sins or mortal sins? Can someone like me who is told by Jesus to discern your fruits say you are saved if you are in mortal sins? ''Oh yes Lord, I will leave my children with that saved Christian lady who tells me she is saved. She repents every week of rape and pedophilia. ''

When one does not discern sin they blanket / cushion those close to ''éternity in the lake of fire''' as opposed to harshly rebuking them and saving them.

Pro 27:6 Wounds from a friend can be trusted but an enemy multiplies kisses.

 

[KingJ]

What I say / My opinion doesn't really matter -- what God's Word says does. When it's taken in it's context. Lifting passages Out of their intended context can cause some problems. People Have been known to lift a series of passages Out of their context -- put them together and come up with some really interesting results. the thought is that 'it's All God's Word -- so it can be used in any way 'we' want to.' One of the problems with That is that God's Word gets turned into Our Word'.

I could not agree more.

When a person repents -- they are showing sorrow for sin / or a particular Sin. They are turning from That sin -- as long as we are human beings here on this earth -- we Will end up sinning in some way. maybe being Prideful of only committing Little sins but not the Big ones. the point being that we are no longer Slaves to sin. Because Of the cross -- we Do have ability to say 'no'. But, do we Always say 'no' -- probably Not. So -- we pause and ask forgiveness.

If Paul continued '''murdering'''.....I will bet a trillion dollars on the fact that there was no conversion to Christianity / no acceptance of Jesus. So, no, once more I utterly disagree with you. The sin we are in says ''everything'' about us. Or as you say '''we will end up sinning in some way''. Seriously Sue?

BTW -- I have No intention of 'battling' with you about 'degrees of sin'.

Battling? Just a proper reading of more then three scriptures. I believe three scriptures are cherry picked to place a fullstop after ''sin is sin''. Matt 5:28, Rom 6:23 and Rom 3:23.

 

[Sue D.]

@King J. -- maybe More to the point of all of this discussion -- Are my actions bringing glory to God or aren't they? There Are sins or A sin that Can lead to death. What am I doing in "My" life. And in the process of living amongst Others -- what are we seeing in Their lives. Are we concerned enough about Their welfare to quietly say something to them in a concerned way?

Galations 5 :13 "For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. vs 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." vs 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another. vs 18 but if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. , Then follows vs 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, and that passage continues to name a multitude of sins. But No where do I see a mention of 'veniel'' or "mortal" sins.

Now we can look at 1 John 5:16 - 19 The passage that talks about a sin leading to death. My Bible has a cross reference to Matthew 12:31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy again the Spirit will not be forgiven men. vs 32 "any one who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. "

I've been doing more research about veniel and mortal sins -- they are RCC terms read about in the Catachism. That which the RCC calls them / what they are and how they are taken care of. Totally RCC. That which I shared in the above paragraph is what Scripture says. Soo - let's stay with Scripture.

 

[KingJ]

@King J. -- maybe More to the point of all of this discussion -- Are my actions bringing glory to God or aren't they? There Are sins or A sin that Can lead to death. What am I doing in "My" life. And in the process of living amongst Others -- what are we seeing in Their lives. Are we concerned enough about Their welfare to quietly say something to them in a concerned way?

Galations 5 :13 "For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. vs 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." vs 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another. vs 18 but if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. , Then follows vs 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, and that passage continues to name a multitude of sins. But No where do I see a mention of 'veniel'' or "mortal" sins.

Now we can look at 1 John 5:16 - 19 The passage that talks about a sin leading to death. My Bible has a cross reference to Matthew 12:31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy again the Spirit will not be forgiven men. vs 32 "any one who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him, but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. "

I've been doing more research about veniel and mortal sins -- they are RCC terms read about in the Catachism. That which the RCC calls them / what they are and how they are taken care of. Totally RCC. That which I shared in the above paragraph is what Scripture says. Soo - let's stay with Scripture.

You need to put yourself in John's shoes for second. He is a Jew. Judaism often stoned people. When he says ''sin leading to death'' it is safe to interpret it as all those sins in the OT that warranted the ''death'' penalty.

Matt 12:31 speaks to a separate issue. It is possible for a person in a sin leading to death to repent and be saved. But to commit the unpardonable sin is an entirely separate issue. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, when the Holy Spirit is here to teach us about Jesus and not Himself, is in essence rejecting Jesus. Rejecting Jesus is hence the unpardonable sin.

John 16:13-15 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you..

 

[KingJ]

I've been doing more research about veniel and mortal sins -- they are RCC terms read about in the Catachism. That which the RCC calls them / what they are and how they are taken care of. Totally RCC. That which I shared in the above paragraph is what Scripture says. Soo - let's stay with Scripture.

Mortal and venial sin is very scriptural. I can prove it in two verses.

Mortal sin = Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

Venial sin = All those sins that do not warrant the death penalty in God's eyes.

Num 23:19 God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind.

Just because we are living in a new covenant where Jesus took the punishment for our sin.....does not mean God's desire for ''death'' to those in mortal sin has changed.

What needs to ''sink in'' is the fact that God ordained the death penalty for certain sins. Not Bob. Not Joe Soap.

 

[Sue D.]

@KingJ -- Okay -- back in the Old Testament people Were stoned and crucified for committing adultery . Should 'we' start stoning people to death for committing adultery? It would sure make people think twice about doing it. But then again , a person had to be caught in the act in order to be charged with the crime.

It's not really any different than today -- we have crimes that call for the death penalty. Federal / local crimes. And we have lesser crimes that are punishable in a variety of ways and that is determined by a judge.

Your Numbers 23:19 -- okay God doesn't change His mind. What does That have to do with the subject at hand.

So -- yes, we have the Ten Commandments in the Old Testament -- all of the 'thou shalt nots' / steal, tell lies, to worship only God and no other 'gods' -- no gravel images to bow down to worship -- no swearing -- keep the Sabboth day holy -- honor your Father and Mother -- no adultery -- no slandering your neighbor -- no coveting other people's belongings.

It's the RCC that catagorizes all of them into either mortal or venial sins. No one else does.

Do you Also realize that cities of refuge were set aside in the Old Testament. If someone killed another person -- the person Could run to one of those designated cities and find refuge Until their case was heard by the high priest of that particular city. That official would determine if the killing was accidental or on purpose. Everyone In those cities of refuge were safe as long as they stayed inside. And they stayed inside until the high priest died a natural death. If it was a young priest , they were there for a Long time -- if it was an older man -- not so long. But if the accused person Left that city the relatives of the dead person Could take revenge and kill the guy.

In other wards -- it's basically the same thing Now days. Cities of refuge in the Old Testament would be receiving a prison sentence of indetermined length. We have the same thing now -- jail / prison time.

Seems you're trying to mix apples and oranges.

'we' have death penalty crimes // federal and local laws and penalties for breaking them.

And, by the way -- This society has been deciding that certain types of capital punishment are considered to be 'cruel and inhumane ' punishment for criminals. And it Usually takes Years to get a death penalty put into effect. Meaning that a person can be sentenced To death -- but wait 15 yrs or more for it take effect. So, there's really no deterant To crime.

As a side-note -- my personal opinion -- a life with no parole sentence Should be changed to death penalty. And That should be carried out quickly.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I believe that, No one, on earth, has a right to kill another human.

Whether it be abortion, whether it be euthanasia, whether it be any other reason.

Peace be with you

 

[KingJ]

@KingJ -- Okay -- back in the Old Testament people Were stoned and crucified for committing adultery . Should 'we' start stoning people to death for committing adultery? .

A fragile discussion needs exacts. God ordained Jews were stoned. They were His people. We know how God dealt with gentiles from our earlier chat on Jonah with Nineveh and the angels with Sodom.

No, we should not start stoning mortal sinners to death. We are under a new covenant. One where Jesus was already ''stoned'' for our sins.

This however does not in any way shape or form equate to God's feelings / desire for those not covered by Jesus to be dealt with in a lessor manner, in this current dispensation. Please meditate on that fact.

It would sure make people think twice about doing it. But then again , a person had to be caught in the act in order to be charged with the crime

No sin will escape God's punishment.

It's not really any different than today -- we have crimes that call for the death penalty. Federal / local crimes. And we have lesser crimes that are punishable in a variety of ways and that is determined by a judge.

True. Our laws are heavily influenced by Roman law, which was has the Catholic church / Christianity to thank.

Your Numbers 23:19 -- okay God doesn't change His mind. What does That have to do with the subject at hand.

Everything? When we add the fact that God is impartial Acts 10:34. The reality of punishment en route for our sin, should hit us hard. God's desire for mortal sinners is nothing short of a stoning to death. He wants to be rid of such people.

Now a ''Christian'' in a mortal sin. Oh my, what dangerous grounds to be in. That person may as well be counting their days or hours.