rhern53
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what a powerful statement. it's very good ,, I look in psalms. I'm interested as to which verse you were drawing attention thanks
God declares Jesus God
- Thread starter Dave M
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what a powerful statement. it's very good ,, I look in psalms. I'm interested as to which verse you were drawing attention thanks
Dave M
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the bible is clear we are to worship God only, and we know that the angles worship the infant Jesus who was God in the flesh,
if he was just man and not divine at the same time his sacrifice would not have the power to free us from the enslavement of sin we have been cursed with. No human sacrifice would be good enough to cover the sins of the whole world.
if he was just man and not divine at the same time his sacrifice would not have the power to free us from the enslavement of sin we have been cursed with. No human sacrifice would be good enough to cover the sins of the whole world.
Samson2020
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He declared himself the Son of God thats what they considered blasphemy, and wanted to stone him for.
And you are partially correct Jesus Christ became a GOD after his Glorification. If he was God already what need was there of a glorification??
And you are partially correct Jesus Christ became a GOD after his Glorification. If he was God already what need was there of a glorification??
Samson2020
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Is God your Father or your Brother? Jesus claims to be our brother so is he our brother and our Father?
Matthew 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them. saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and WORSHIPED him.
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, GOD. Seems as thou he were making a distinction between himself and GOD.
Matthew 28:9 And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them. saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and WORSHIPED him.
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, GOD. Seems as thou he were making a distinction between himself and GOD.
Samson2020
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And case made in above thread that God could not take unto himself a carnal mind in gethsemane as Jesus did. Therefore he could not be the Father as well as the son, which would have meant he always prayed to himself????? This fantasy is ridiculous!
Samson2020
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To rhern:
All of them as they give us hints at where we came from (ALL OF US JESUS INCLUDED) and what Gods intention toward us was from the very beginning, before the world was created.
All of them as they give us hints at where we came from (ALL OF US JESUS INCLUDED) and what Gods intention toward us was from the very beginning, before the world was created.
Dave M
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this might help you
JESUS’ LIFE TESTIFIES TO HIS DEITY
Continuing our examination of whether or not Jesus is God, we now turn to what He did. If God did appear in the flesh, what would He be like? Surely, He would be able to do things that no mere human could do, including not sinning. He would also know all things (omniscience), He would have power over all things (omnipotence), and be able to be everywhere at once (omnipresence). Does Jesus meet the test?
First and foremost, Jesus was not like any human. He was born of a human virgin, but His Father was God. Because his father was not human, Jesus was born sinless since He was not in the line of Adam, through whom all people are born sinners. Unlike Adam, Jesus lived a perfect life. Hebrews 4:15 says,
“For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.” 1 Peter 2 says, “21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, 22 who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth.”
Jesus knows all things. Prior to His death and resurrection, He told the Pharisees to destroy the temple of His body and in three days He would raise it up (John 2:19). He knew men’s thoughts. Luke 5 says,
“21 The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, “Who is this man who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?” 22 But Jesus, aware of their reasonings, answered and said to them, “Why are you reasoning in your hearts?”
Luke 6 says,
“7 The scribes and the Pharisees were watching Him closely to see if He healed on the Sabbath, so that they might find reason to accuse Him. 8 But He knew what they were thinking, and He said to the man with the withered hand, “Get up and come forward!” And he got up and came forward.”
Since He created all things, Jesus had power over all things. He controls nature. In Mark 4 we read,
“36 Leaving the crowd, they took Him along with them in the boat, just as He was; and other boats were with Him. 37 And there arose a fierce gale of wind, and the waves were breaking over the boat so much that the boat was already filling up. 38 Jesus Himself was in the stern, asleep on the cushion; and they woke Him and said to Him, “Teacher, do You not care that we are perishing?” 39 And He got up and rebuked the wind and said to the sea, “Hush, be still.” And the wind died down and it became perfectly calm.”
Deuteronomy 32:39 tells us,
“‘See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.”
Only God can give life and put to death, yet Jesus demonstrated this same ability. When Lazarus was sick, Jesus tarried before coming to see him, to ensure he would be dead when He got to him, knowing He would bring him back to life.
“17 So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days….41 So they removed the stone. Then Jesus raised His eyes, and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. 42 I knew that You always hear Me; but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me.” 43 When He had said these things, He cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth.” 44 The man who had died came forth, bound hand and foot with wrappings, and his face was wrapped around with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.””
Jesus is also omnipresent. Prior to His resurrection, He did not exhibit this power; He claimed it later. Speaking of God, Psalm 139 tells us,
“7 Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? 8 If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there. 9 If I take the wings of the dawn, If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea, 10 Even there Your hand will lead me, And Your right hand will lay hold of me.”
Matthew 18 says,
“19 “Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.””
Matthew 28 says,
“…20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Only God can be in more than one place at the same time.
www.versebyverseministry.org
JESUS’ LIFE TESTIFIES TO HIS DEITY
Continuing our examination of whether or not Jesus is God, we now turn to what He did. If God did appear in the flesh, what would He be like? Surely, He would be able to do things that no mere human could do, including not sinning. He would also know all things (omniscience), He would have power over all things (omnipotence), and be able to be everywhere at once (omnipresence). Does Jesus meet the test?
First and foremost, Jesus was not like any human. He was born of a human virgin, but His Father was God. Because his father was not human, Jesus was born sinless since He was not in the line of Adam, through whom all people are born sinners. Unlike Adam, Jesus lived a perfect life. Hebrews 4:15 says,
“For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.” 1 Peter 2 says, “21 For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, 22 who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth.”
Jesus knows all things. Prior to His death and resurrection, He told the Pharisees to destroy the temple of His body and in three days He would raise it up (John 2:19). He knew men’s thoughts. Luke 5 says,
“21 The scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, “Who is this man who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?” 22 But Jesus, aware of their reasonings, answered and said to them, “Why are you reasoning in your hearts?”
Luke 6 says,
“7 The scribes and the Pharisees were watching Him closely to see if He healed on the Sabbath, so that they might find reason to accuse Him. 8 But He knew what they were thinking, and He said to the man with the withered hand, “Get up and come forward!” And he got up and came forward.”
Since He created all things, Jesus had power over all things. He controls nature. In Mark 4 we read,
“36 Leaving the crowd, they took Him along with them in the boat, just as He was; and other boats were with Him. 37 And there arose a fierce gale of wind, and the waves were breaking over the boat so much that the boat was already filling up. 38 Jesus Himself was in the stern, asleep on the cushion; and they woke Him and said to Him, “Teacher, do You not care that we are perishing?” 39 And He got up and rebuked the wind and said to the sea, “Hush, be still.” And the wind died down and it became perfectly calm.”
Deuteronomy 32:39 tells us,
“‘See now that I, I am He, And there is no god besides Me; It is I who put to death and give life. I have wounded and it is I who heal, And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.”
Only God can give life and put to death, yet Jesus demonstrated this same ability. When Lazarus was sick, Jesus tarried before coming to see him, to ensure he would be dead when He got to him, knowing He would bring him back to life.
“17 So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days….41 So they removed the stone. Then Jesus raised His eyes, and said, “Father, I thank You that You have heard Me. 42 I knew that You always hear Me; but because of the people standing around I said it, so that they may believe that You sent Me.” 43 When He had said these things, He cried out with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come forth.” 44 The man who had died came forth, bound hand and foot with wrappings, and his face was wrapped around with a cloth. Jesus said to them, “Unbind him, and let him go.””
Jesus is also omnipresent. Prior to His resurrection, He did not exhibit this power; He claimed it later. Speaking of God, Psalm 139 tells us,
“7 Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? 8 If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in Sheol, behold, You are there. 9 If I take the wings of the dawn, If I dwell in the remotest part of the sea, 10 Even there Your hand will lead me, And Your right hand will lay hold of me.”
Matthew 18 says,
“19 “Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven. 20 For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.””
Matthew 28 says,
“…20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
Only God can be in more than one place at the same time.
Is Jesus Really God? | Verse By Verse Ministry International
Investigate the pivotal question of Jesus' divinity. Analyzing historical accounts and scriptural evidence, understand why many believe Jesus claimed to be God and the profound ramifications this has for faith and belief.
@ Dave M
Well, thanks for pulling up this thread. I believe that anyone who is looking for truth, is not blind to simple reading comprehension and can have an honest look at what scripture says, can compare that here and see it for what it is.
People who read this will clearly see the opponents against the fact that Jesus was indeed part of the Godhead and one of three distinct persons rolled into the one true God, have no stable footing. They will see that throughout this thread. they have brought no scripture refuting the facts brought against them. They will see that they have only brought opinions, speculations and conjectures. They will see how they distorted clear and precise grammar and context.
The evidence in this thread already will be enough. Any point in going further is "beating a dead horse". Anything further should be prayers that eyes would one day be opened.
Again, thanks Dave for bringing this up.
Well, thanks for pulling up this thread. I believe that anyone who is looking for truth, is not blind to simple reading comprehension and can have an honest look at what scripture says, can compare that here and see it for what it is.
People who read this will clearly see the opponents against the fact that Jesus was indeed part of the Godhead and one of three distinct persons rolled into the one true God, have no stable footing. They will see that throughout this thread. they have brought no scripture refuting the facts brought against them. They will see that they have only brought opinions, speculations and conjectures. They will see how they distorted clear and precise grammar and context.
The evidence in this thread already will be enough. Any point in going further is "beating a dead horse". Anything further should be prayers that eyes would one day be opened.
Again, thanks Dave for bringing this up.
Samson2020
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You almost got it right. Only a GOD can be in more than one place at one time. After glorification Jesus was proclaimed to be a GOD as in the Son of GOD with all power and authority. So where there was initially 1 there is now 2. The Father and the SON.
1 John 2:27 But the annointing(baptism in Holy Ghost) which ye have received of him abideth IN YOU, and ye need not that any MAN TEACH YOU: but as the same anointing teacheth you of ALL THINGS, and is TRUTH, and is no lie.......
In the scripture you use to prove your point you make mine.
Matthew 28:19 ......It shall be done for them by my FATHER who is IN HEAVEN. He was standing on the earth when he said that, again making distinction between himself and his Father.
I would ask just one question of you 1 John 2:27 makes it clear that the Holy Ghost is who we, the born again believer, get our teaching from. So my question to you is why bring in information supplied by some man that may or may not be a born again believer, but rather a seminary taught robot. For if you are getting your teaching from man its probably wrong, and if you do have the Holy Ghost abiding in you why do you not listen to him?
"Hereby know ye the spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of GOD. And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of GOD: and this is that SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST."
"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of FLESH AND BLOOD, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the POWER OF DEATH, that is THE DEVIL."
This above verse tells us that it was necessary for Jesus to partake of flesh and blood. And since flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God was God abdicating his own Kingdom while he (in your narrative was in the flesh)?
Do we really believe that GOD needed to die in the flesh (or even could) in order to destroy the DEVIL whom was an angel of his own creating?? NO! a MAN had to do it, because it was a man that was responsible for the fall not GOD.
The whole thing can be seen in GODS request of Abraham to sacrifice Isaac his only son that was born to a 90 plus year old woman(humanly speaking impossible conception as well) God was showing what his intent was to bring about the promises he made to Abraham through Isaac.
Even Moses tells us that God would send a PROPHET like unto himself and it was him that the people should listen to. A PROPHET SPEAKS THE WORDS OF GOD AS GOD GIVES THEM TO HIM.
JOHN 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am IN the Father and the Father IN me? (As the holy Ghost exists in us) The words that I speak unto you I speak NOT OF MYSELF, but the Father that DWELLS IN ME, he DOETH THE WORKS."
IS HE NOT PLAINLY SAYING THAT HE IS A PROPHET IN THAT THE WORDS HE SPEAKS ARE NOT HIS OWN BUT THEY ARE THE FATHERS?? Which is the very definition of a Prophet!!
1 John 2:27 But the annointing(baptism in Holy Ghost) which ye have received of him abideth IN YOU, and ye need not that any MAN TEACH YOU: but as the same anointing teacheth you of ALL THINGS, and is TRUTH, and is no lie.......
In the scripture you use to prove your point you make mine.
Matthew 28:19 ......It shall be done for them by my FATHER who is IN HEAVEN. He was standing on the earth when he said that, again making distinction between himself and his Father.
I would ask just one question of you 1 John 2:27 makes it clear that the Holy Ghost is who we, the born again believer, get our teaching from. So my question to you is why bring in information supplied by some man that may or may not be a born again believer, but rather a seminary taught robot. For if you are getting your teaching from man its probably wrong, and if you do have the Holy Ghost abiding in you why do you not listen to him?
"Hereby know ye the spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of GOD. And every spirit that confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of GOD: and this is that SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST."
"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of FLESH AND BLOOD, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the POWER OF DEATH, that is THE DEVIL."
This above verse tells us that it was necessary for Jesus to partake of flesh and blood. And since flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God was God abdicating his own Kingdom while he (in your narrative was in the flesh)?
Do we really believe that GOD needed to die in the flesh (or even could) in order to destroy the DEVIL whom was an angel of his own creating?? NO! a MAN had to do it, because it was a man that was responsible for the fall not GOD.
The whole thing can be seen in GODS request of Abraham to sacrifice Isaac his only son that was born to a 90 plus year old woman(humanly speaking impossible conception as well) God was showing what his intent was to bring about the promises he made to Abraham through Isaac.
Even Moses tells us that God would send a PROPHET like unto himself and it was him that the people should listen to. A PROPHET SPEAKS THE WORDS OF GOD AS GOD GIVES THEM TO HIM.
JOHN 14:10 "Believest thou not that I am IN the Father and the Father IN me? (As the holy Ghost exists in us) The words that I speak unto you I speak NOT OF MYSELF, but the Father that DWELLS IN ME, he DOETH THE WORKS."
IS HE NOT PLAINLY SAYING THAT HE IS A PROPHET IN THAT THE WORDS HE SPEAKS ARE NOT HIS OWN BUT THEY ARE THE FATHERS?? Which is the very definition of a Prophet!!
Dave M
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this may help you
Add bookmark Jan 2, 2020 #1
THE APOSTLES TESTIFY TO JESUS’ DEITY
Continuing our examination of Jesus’ claim to deity, we now want to consider what others said about Jesus. Those who knew Jesus best were His apostles and disciples, and they wrote a lot about Jesus. They were the authors of the New Testament, which gives us more evidence of Jesus’ deity.
John 1 says of Jesus,
“1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being…. 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.”
This is a clear and direct statement of Jesus’ deity. Moreover, the word “dwelt” means “tabernacled”, which is the reality of the picture of Christ when God resided in the tabernacle with the Israelites in the wilderness. When He was born, He “tabernacled”, or dwelt, with men in the flesh.
John goes on in v. 18:
“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.” In v. 14, John says Jesus is the only begotten from the Father; here, he makes clear that Jesus is God by calling Him the “only begotten God.”
The apostle Thomas declared plainly of the risen Christ,
“Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”” (John 20:28)
While all of Jesus’ apostles were Jewish, consider the unique case of Paul. Unlike the other apostles, Paul was a formally trained Pharisee, and likely knew the Old Testament far better than the other apostles. In the Old Testament, Deuteronomy 6 makes clear that God is one, and Paul would have known this particular verse well:
“4 “Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!” Yet, Paul tells the Colossians, “9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.” (Colossians 2) In 1 Timothy 3, Paul says, “16 By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.”
It would be unconceivable for a monotheistic Jew, especially a Pharisee like Paul, to view God as some polytheistic being. Rather, Paul effectively states that Jesus is God. Furthermore, Gentile Christians clearly viewed Jesus as God as well. If they saw Jesus as “another” God, they would not have been persecuted, especially by the Roman emperor. Pagan Gentiles had many gods, and if Jesus were simply one more, Christians would have been accepted. Instead, they saw Jesus as the one true and living God, and for that they were persecuted.
(Of course, Scripture has a triune view of God, which we refer to as the Trinity (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit). You can read more about the Trinity in this article.)
Speaking of God, Acts 20:28 says,
“Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.” Hebrews 9 similarly says of Jesus, “11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.”
Thus the apostles equate Jesus with God. And Paul says in Titus 2:
“11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.”
Here again, Jesus is equated with God. Romans 9 states:
“…5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.”
Hebrews 1, quoting Psalm 45, says,
“8 But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom. 9 “You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your companions.””
Paul and John aren’t the only ones claiming Jesus is God. In 2 Peter 1, we read,
“Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.”
Peter also equates Jesus with the Holy Spirit in 1 Peter 1:
“10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look.”
Confirming the triune nature of God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), Peter says in 2 Peter 1:
“20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” The Holy Spirit is equated with God, and Jesus is equated with the Holy Spirit, making Him equal to God. In Romans 8, Paul similarly equates Jesus with God the Holy Spirit: “9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.”
So, we have more evidence from those who knew Him best that Jesus is God.
Add bookmark Jan 2, 2020 #1
THE APOSTLES TESTIFY TO JESUS’ DEITY
Continuing our examination of Jesus’ claim to deity, we now want to consider what others said about Jesus. Those who knew Jesus best were His apostles and disciples, and they wrote a lot about Jesus. They were the authors of the New Testament, which gives us more evidence of Jesus’ deity.
John 1 says of Jesus,
“1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being…. 14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.”
This is a clear and direct statement of Jesus’ deity. Moreover, the word “dwelt” means “tabernacled”, which is the reality of the picture of Christ when God resided in the tabernacle with the Israelites in the wilderness. When He was born, He “tabernacled”, or dwelt, with men in the flesh.
John goes on in v. 18:
“No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.” In v. 14, John says Jesus is the only begotten from the Father; here, he makes clear that Jesus is God by calling Him the “only begotten God.”
The apostle Thomas declared plainly of the risen Christ,
“Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”” (John 20:28)
While all of Jesus’ apostles were Jewish, consider the unique case of Paul. Unlike the other apostles, Paul was a formally trained Pharisee, and likely knew the Old Testament far better than the other apostles. In the Old Testament, Deuteronomy 6 makes clear that God is one, and Paul would have known this particular verse well:
“4 “Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!” Yet, Paul tells the Colossians, “9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.” (Colossians 2) In 1 Timothy 3, Paul says, “16 By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.”
It would be unconceivable for a monotheistic Jew, especially a Pharisee like Paul, to view God as some polytheistic being. Rather, Paul effectively states that Jesus is God. Furthermore, Gentile Christians clearly viewed Jesus as God as well. If they saw Jesus as “another” God, they would not have been persecuted, especially by the Roman emperor. Pagan Gentiles had many gods, and if Jesus were simply one more, Christians would have been accepted. Instead, they saw Jesus as the one true and living God, and for that they were persecuted.
(Of course, Scripture has a triune view of God, which we refer to as the Trinity (the Father, Son and Holy Spirit). You can read more about the Trinity in this article.)
Speaking of God, Acts 20:28 says,
“Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.” Hebrews 9 similarly says of Jesus, “11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.”
Thus the apostles equate Jesus with God. And Paul says in Titus 2:
“11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.”
Here again, Jesus is equated with God. Romans 9 states:
“…5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.”
Hebrews 1, quoting Psalm 45, says,
“8 But of the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, And the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom. 9 “You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your companions.””
Paul and John aren’t the only ones claiming Jesus is God. In 2 Peter 1, we read,
“Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ.”
Peter also equates Jesus with the Holy Spirit in 1 Peter 1:
“10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12 It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things into which angels long to look.”
Confirming the triune nature of God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit), Peter says in 2 Peter 1:
“20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, 21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.” The Holy Spirit is equated with God, and Jesus is equated with the Holy Spirit, making Him equal to God. In Romans 8, Paul similarly equates Jesus with God the Holy Spirit: “9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.”
So, we have more evidence from those who knew Him best that Jesus is God.
Samson2020
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Philippians 2:5 "let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus." 6- Who being in the FORM OF GOD, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL with GOD:
7-But made himself of no reputation,and took upon him the form of a servant, and was MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN: 8- And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9- Wherefore GOD hath also highly exalted HIM and given him a name which is above every name: 10-That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth:
11- And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of the Father.
Jesus thought it not ROBBERY to be EQUAL with GOD. HOW COULD HE BE GOD AND THINK IT NOT ROBBERY TO BE EQUAL WITH GOD?
Jesus became obedient unto death. OBEDIENT TO WHO?
Jesus was exalted by GOD. Or was GOD EXALTING HIMSELF?
GOD will have every knee bow and every tongue confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD for THE FATHERS GLORY.
And lets never forget that Jesus Christ is LORD of LORDS and KING of KINGS. I say again that if he Jesus Christ is a GOD, which he is, then we shall be also in that day of glorification. A KING of KINGS is also A GOD of GODS. And God the Father of us all is over ALL.
Even the Muslims believe in the ONE TRUE GOD JAHWEY, But the thought of Jesus Christ as the way back to the Father causes them outrage therefore persecution. Ask anybody living outside the U.S.
Remember the thread title is GOD DECLARES JESUS GOD, it is this part they the Muslims hate that is that Jesus is a GOD.
And I would ask one last thing. Why, when Paul was blinded by the light, did the Lord say he was JESUS. And not say he was JAH, or I AM that I AM whom thou persecutes?
7-But made himself of no reputation,and took upon him the form of a servant, and was MADE IN THE LIKENESS OF MEN: 8- And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9- Wherefore GOD hath also highly exalted HIM and given him a name which is above every name: 10-That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth:
11- And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of the Father.
Jesus thought it not ROBBERY to be EQUAL with GOD. HOW COULD HE BE GOD AND THINK IT NOT ROBBERY TO BE EQUAL WITH GOD?
Jesus became obedient unto death. OBEDIENT TO WHO?
Jesus was exalted by GOD. Or was GOD EXALTING HIMSELF?
GOD will have every knee bow and every tongue confess that JESUS CHRIST is LORD for THE FATHERS GLORY.
And lets never forget that Jesus Christ is LORD of LORDS and KING of KINGS. I say again that if he Jesus Christ is a GOD, which he is, then we shall be also in that day of glorification. A KING of KINGS is also A GOD of GODS. And God the Father of us all is over ALL.
Even the Muslims believe in the ONE TRUE GOD JAHWEY, But the thought of Jesus Christ as the way back to the Father causes them outrage therefore persecution. Ask anybody living outside the U.S.
Remember the thread title is GOD DECLARES JESUS GOD, it is this part they the Muslims hate that is that Jesus is a GOD.
And I would ask one last thing. Why, when Paul was blinded by the light, did the Lord say he was JESUS. And not say he was JAH, or I AM that I AM whom thou persecutes?
Samson2020
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Ok, then explain how Jesus was able to take upon himself a carnal mind in the garden prior to crucifixion. As the definition of a carnal mind is to be at enmity with GOD. So was Jesus at odds with himself? And why would he pray for the Father to remove this cup?
There are things that Jesus spoke of that were for after his resurrection and I believe that the Matthew 18:20 was one of those. Just me.
There are things that Jesus spoke of that were for after his resurrection and I believe that the Matthew 18:20 was one of those. Just me.
PloughBoy
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Well we address this before, There is only two things He cannot do; “lie and deny Himself”. So Everything else is possible, He is GOD, I would think that is a small thing for Him to do. A finite mind can never figure out how a infinite God operates. Especially if He decides to become, 100 percent human and 100 percent God wrap in flesh, And operate in His divinity or His humanity as He pleases according to the will of His Father.
Samson2020
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We all agree that Jesus was Begotten of the Father right? Well begotten means to be the Parent(Father) of the offspring. You begat your own children right? And they are not you, but probably LIKE you. Especially when matured, not a mirror image but close enough and have similar capabilities. The same with Jesus.
So within this narrative your trying to say that GOD begat HIMSELF? You are almost correct. There was an earthly stage for Jesus to go through
just as Adam, and to be sinless, then a baptism at Jordan which began his gestational period as a New Creature, and a finale at his crucifixion. After death he was raised again at which point he ascended into heaven, but told a few to not touch him as he was not yet GLORIFIED of his FATHER, meaning he had not yet received his reward which was GOD status, in subjection to his Father. So God begat a Son of flesh and blood that became a GOD but is still the SON of GOD.So GOD begat a GOD but Had to have HIM be born of both (WATER AND SPIRIT) prior to that outcome.
This is the path unto life eternal. Flesh man, born again,(born of water and the spirit) return to God the Father and Jesus Christ who hath obtained glorification and God status already, to be GLORIFIED yourself, if so be the person is one of the elect. He simply showed us the WAY by example. GODS plan executed by Jesus.
Lets go genetics for a second. Keeping in mind that we understand the things of the spirit by the things in the natural. The spirit of Jesus in his mortal body (he died so it was mortal) was a feminine spirit(FEMALE SIDE) from within the Father(as are all living souls). At his baptism at Jordan he received the other half of the genetics(MALE side) required to produce a NEW CREATURE (spiritual one). Since both halves were from the Father it's only obvious that he would grow up to be just like his Father. This is as simple as I can make it. And again this is the same path that you will follow when its your turn. You already have the feminine spirit within your earthen vessel, given by the Father, but need the masculine spiritual side to become the NEW CREATURE that is the child of GOD. This is where FAITH comes in, It is necessary to believe that Jesus can provide that MASCULINE side as he is the only SON of GOD given the authority to do this(BAPTIZE IN THE HOLY GHOST). Which is why the Bible tells us that it was GODS plan to reconcile all things THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. GOD himself gave that masculine side to only, Jesus, then stopped. Now its up to Jesus to continue (or repeat) the process for the rest of us.
"ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE"
There is precedence for this in the natural as Sarah and Abraham were half brother and sister, their Father was Terah. With the miraculous conception of Isaac at over 90 Abraham was told the promises belonged to Isaac. Yet God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. which he prepared to do and at the last moment God said stop. It was a test. For if the promises made applied to Isaac were to be fulfilled then Isaac would have to be alive. Therefore Abraham had FAITH in GOD to raise him up again from the dead in order to fulfill that promise. This is a similar analogy as to what happened to Jesus and eventually to you.
It was the reunion of the genetics that both came from their father(TERAH) that created Isaac( in the natural) and the promises applied to Isaac. In the same way the promises of God apply to his SPIRITUAL children whom possess the spiritual genetics that came from him on both sides, MALE AND FEMALE. GOD provided the female egg if you will in spirit form in the body then Jesus quickens that spirit or applies the Male side and the NEW spiritual child is born.
Ask any woman with children what would cause them more pain. To die for their child, or to have to watch their ONLY child DIE. And to a woman they will say they would die for their child, but GOD not being able to die sent his SON into the world to DIE for our sins. What pain he must have felt, but yet he knew that he had the power to raise him from the dead which he did, but it was for Jesus to have faith that GOD would do that which he had promised him, and for this, and other things, he received his GODSHIP status. The Bible does tell us that Jesus thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD. As this was his goal. And to some degree should be yours as well.
Father Son Sons by adoption (All Gods in subjection to the Father) This is the completion of the plan. They were always in subjection to the father but were never Gods until after the earthly journey, and will not be until the first group is glorified by the Father at the FIRST RESURRECTION. This is why Paul mention's that his goal is to attain to the FIRST RESURRECTION by any means. Because he knew it would be an extremely long time before the next group was glorified.
So within this narrative your trying to say that GOD begat HIMSELF? You are almost correct. There was an earthly stage for Jesus to go through
just as Adam, and to be sinless, then a baptism at Jordan which began his gestational period as a New Creature, and a finale at his crucifixion. After death he was raised again at which point he ascended into heaven, but told a few to not touch him as he was not yet GLORIFIED of his FATHER, meaning he had not yet received his reward which was GOD status, in subjection to his Father. So God begat a Son of flesh and blood that became a GOD but is still the SON of GOD.So GOD begat a GOD but Had to have HIM be born of both (WATER AND SPIRIT) prior to that outcome.
This is the path unto life eternal. Flesh man, born again,(born of water and the spirit) return to God the Father and Jesus Christ who hath obtained glorification and God status already, to be GLORIFIED yourself, if so be the person is one of the elect. He simply showed us the WAY by example. GODS plan executed by Jesus.
Lets go genetics for a second. Keeping in mind that we understand the things of the spirit by the things in the natural. The spirit of Jesus in his mortal body (he died so it was mortal) was a feminine spirit(FEMALE SIDE) from within the Father(as are all living souls). At his baptism at Jordan he received the other half of the genetics(MALE side) required to produce a NEW CREATURE (spiritual one). Since both halves were from the Father it's only obvious that he would grow up to be just like his Father. This is as simple as I can make it. And again this is the same path that you will follow when its your turn. You already have the feminine spirit within your earthen vessel, given by the Father, but need the masculine spiritual side to become the NEW CREATURE that is the child of GOD. This is where FAITH comes in, It is necessary to believe that Jesus can provide that MASCULINE side as he is the only SON of GOD given the authority to do this(BAPTIZE IN THE HOLY GHOST). Which is why the Bible tells us that it was GODS plan to reconcile all things THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. GOD himself gave that masculine side to only, Jesus, then stopped. Now its up to Jesus to continue (or repeat) the process for the rest of us.
"ASK AND YE SHALL RECEIVE"
There is precedence for this in the natural as Sarah and Abraham were half brother and sister, their Father was Terah. With the miraculous conception of Isaac at over 90 Abraham was told the promises belonged to Isaac. Yet God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac. which he prepared to do and at the last moment God said stop. It was a test. For if the promises made applied to Isaac were to be fulfilled then Isaac would have to be alive. Therefore Abraham had FAITH in GOD to raise him up again from the dead in order to fulfill that promise. This is a similar analogy as to what happened to Jesus and eventually to you.
It was the reunion of the genetics that both came from their father(TERAH) that created Isaac( in the natural) and the promises applied to Isaac. In the same way the promises of God apply to his SPIRITUAL children whom possess the spiritual genetics that came from him on both sides, MALE AND FEMALE. GOD provided the female egg if you will in spirit form in the body then Jesus quickens that spirit or applies the Male side and the NEW spiritual child is born.
Ask any woman with children what would cause them more pain. To die for their child, or to have to watch their ONLY child DIE. And to a woman they will say they would die for their child, but GOD not being able to die sent his SON into the world to DIE for our sins. What pain he must have felt, but yet he knew that he had the power to raise him from the dead which he did, but it was for Jesus to have faith that GOD would do that which he had promised him, and for this, and other things, he received his GODSHIP status. The Bible does tell us that Jesus thought it not robbery to be EQUAL WITH GOD. As this was his goal. And to some degree should be yours as well.
Father Son Sons by adoption (All Gods in subjection to the Father) This is the completion of the plan. They were always in subjection to the father but were never Gods until after the earthly journey, and will not be until the first group is glorified by the Father at the FIRST RESURRECTION. This is why Paul mention's that his goal is to attain to the FIRST RESURRECTION by any means. Because he knew it would be an extremely long time before the next group was glorified.
Samson2020
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I would respond to Ploughboy and ask if GOD can DIE? That would be a third thing he cannot do?
PloughBoy
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True, God is infinite. Jesus in His Divinity rose His own self from the dead. Scripture said He receive this authority from His Father. Jesus also receive authority to give life, a matter of fact He receive and authority to all power in Heaven and earth. Only God can have that type of power.
19Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it issomething He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. 20“For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. 21“For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes.22“For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. (John 5:19-29) NASV.
19Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it issomething He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner. 20“For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself is doing; and the Father will show Him greater works than these, so that you will marvel. 21“For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes.22“For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, 23so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. (John 5:19-29) NASV.
Samson2020
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Love the last line "He that does not honor the SON does NOT honor the FATHER who SENT HIM." Again testifying to two different entities. A Father and a SON. Two KINGS or GODS ruling the same KINGDOM. One above the other but miniscule in difference.
