God declares Jesus God

[Dave M]

But what do we really believe about the Jesus we follow? Is the Jesus we claim to know the real Jesus, or a Jesus of our own invention, who doesn’t match up with the biblical and historical realities?

There are a lot of people, friends, coworkers and extended family members who say they “believe in Jesus.” But what’s more important is what they actually believe about the Jesus they say they worship and follow.

For instance, Jehovah’s Witnesses “believe in Jesus,” but they don’t believe that Jesus was God. If Jesus was and is God, then they don’t actually believe in the true Jesus. It’s the same with Mormons and countless others who respect and even elevate Jesus, but don’t believe He’s the utterly unique Son of God who is in fact God Himself.

How important is to believe that Jesus wasn’t just a great man and a great example, but is actually God? John MacArthur says, “That Jesus is himself God is the heart of the gospel, because apart from his deity he could not save a single soul.” Scripture says, “No one who denies the Son has the Father; he who confesses the Son has the Father as well” (1 John 2:23).

Jesus’ declaration “Before Abraham was born, I am!” (John 8:58) was a direct claim to be Yahweh, the God whose name is “I am who I am” (Exodus 3:14). We know those who heard Him understood exactly what He was claiming, because “they picked up stones to stone him” (John 8:59).

In John’s Gospel, Jesus makes more “I am” statements affirming His deity. The God-man said, “I am the bread of life” (John 6:35,48,51); “I am the light of the world” (John 8:12; 9:5); “I am the gate” (John 10:9); “I am the good shepherd” (John 10:11,14); “I am the resurrection and the life” (John 11:25-26); “I am the way and the truth and the life” (John 14:6); and “I am the vine” (John 15:5).

Jesus, who always was, is the eternal “I am.” “For the entire fullness of God’s nature dwells bodily in Christ…the head over every ruler and authority” (Colossians 2:9-10, CSB).

If we get it right about Jesus we can afford to get some things wrong. If we get it wrong about Jesus, it won’t matter that we got a lot of other things right.

 

[Samson2020]

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denies that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah)? He is antichrist that denieth the FATHER AND THE SON. 2 different entities
2:23- Whosoever denies the SON , the same hath not the Father: But he that acknowledges the Son hath the Father also. Again 2 different entities
The John 8:59 you quote uses the lower case a in I am. Therefore you make an assumption. When God gave Moses a name he used the upper case A in I AM that I AM. There's a difference, and it really isn't that hard to see. Jesus knew where he came from, the Father, the rest of us did not realize this until he told us. Therefore what he was saying was before the spirit you knew as Abraham was on the earth I was with the Father as were all of us that are on the earth today.

John10:36 Say ye of him whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I SAID I AM THE SON OF GOD. Who we gonna believe Jesus himself or??

The Father sanctified him (set him apart, purified), the Father sent him into the world. These are his words. I SAID I AM THE SON OF GOD-HIS WORDS.

I AM THE WAY AND THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE, indeed for without him you can never be born again. For God only had ONE SON JESUS whom the baptizing in the Holy Ghost was delegated to thereby requiring everything to be reconciled to the Father through JESUS.

I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE- indeed again as without him and the self sustaining LIFE he has within himself given to you you will not have life in you, therefore you would not be part of the resurrection from the dead.

I AM THE GATE- indeed again, for unless you receive the Holy Ghost from him (Jesus), you will never see, much less enter into, the KINGDOM OF GOD, for he now holds the keys.

In your Colossians 2:9-10 First thing is to remember when this was written Jesus had already ascended into heaven and been glorified by his Father and as I've said multiple times his reward was to be rewarded with GODSHIP (don't know a better way to put it).
WE MUST RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF GOD.
Also if you move to 2:12 it says "Buried with him in baptism wherein ye are also risen with him through the faith of the operation of GOD, who hath
RAISED HIM (JESUS) FROM THE DEAD." This verse claims that GOD RAISED JESUS FROM THE DEAD. Do any of us have a problem with this?

Your assumptions of the use of I am making Jesus his own Father is a bit absurd when Jesus himself establishes a difference between he and his Father
so many times I can't count them.

To finish I'd like to throw out one more thing which is, why did Jesus never perform a miracle until after his baptism in the Holy Ghost and his days of temptation in the wilderness? If he was already GOD why did he have to wait until as he puts it (MY TIME HAS NOT YET COME). Could it be that he had to wait on the Fathers timing?

I don't mean to be mean spirited just spirited in this debate were having so I do hope you take this as just what it is Doctrinal dispute to come to the truth, which I believe is what we all seek.

 

[Samson2020]

Dave M writes:

That by taking a carnal mind unto himself in the garden Jesus sinned and since I made the claim that he did take upon himself a carnal mind I accused Jesus of being a sinner.
Therefore he rebukes me in the name of Jesus.
That Post I cannot find but its in my email and I would like to respond to it and maybe clarify a thing or two for you.

First and foremost "It behooved him (JESUS) to be made like unto his brothers(brethren)." Therefore it was necessary at some point for him to experience the carnal mind that we were ALL born with, with the exception of JESUS, as GOD was his Father and the curses of Eden pass from Father to progeny and since GOD was his Father he never possessed a carnal mind until right at the end.

Secondly 2 COR 5:21 "For he hath made him (JESUS) to be SIN for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of GOD in him." This is a Bible verse not my opinion. It says that GOD made JESUS to be SIN, not a sinner.

Thirdly Right before Jesus went into the Garden at Gethsemane he rebuked Peter and told him to "get thee behind me Satan for thou lovest not the things that be of God." referring to his own crucifixion. No evidence of a carnal mind here.
Then shortly thereafter we all know that he started to sweat great drops of blood and prayed to the Father to "remove this cup from me if thou be willing"
this is the exact same thing that Peter had suggested. Which proves that along with the sin of the world that he took unto himself, a carnal mind was part of the package. It can also be shown at his moment of Death when he says "My God my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" It was the first time in his entire life that there was separation from him and his Father and it caused him exceptional pain, as the only person in his life that ever understood him had to turn his back on him for a moment.

I hope this clears the air.

 

[rhern53]

In 1943 M. R. De Haan, M.D., a well-known radio preacher and the founder of the Radio Bible Class, published a book entitled The Chemistry of the Blood. In this book, De Haan takes the position that sin is in the blood and is transmitted through the blood. He goes on to argue that the father alone is the contributor of the blood of an embryo and the mother alone is the contributor of the body of an embryo. It is, he contends, the only way Christ could be born without sin, as he got his body from his mother, and his blood from God the Father. Otherwise, Christ would have had the blood of Adam, and thus would have been a sinner!

AN EXAMINATION OF THE CHEMISTRY OF THE BLOOD

 

[Samson2020]

NIce.

It fits exactly into what I keep saying. That he was born without a carnal mind. But was just a Man.

 

[rhern53]

flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God

 

[rhern53]

Jesus was made flesh. does not carnal mean flesh?

anyway the life is in the blood which became existent with the serpent:;

they were beguiled. they ate of the tree; the serpent is the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

the Lord is the Tree of Life.

 

[Samson2020]

carnal- relating to physical needs and or activities especially sexual. So no. Carnal mind biblicaly speaking is a mind that is separated from God and believes
itself to be GOD, in control of ones own destinty (brings us back to the free will bit). Spoken of as at odds with GOD or enmity. Jesus never possessed this mind til the end, thats why he never sinned and was in constant communion with his Father, never at odds with him.

 

[Dave M]

I question anyone who says Jesus was carnal in any way.

this video may help you understand how important it is to realize Jesus was God in the flesh.

 

[B-A-C]

does not carnal mean flesh?

No. It means "led by the flesh" or "in sin". Jesus did neither.

 

[Samson2020]

I can't continue this tug of war that goes no where. You guys have your minds made up and so be it. After reading Blacksheeps postings against this very thing,
and watching the way that the gang piled on top of him but yet never answered to his questions I will leave you to your delusions, with this one verse.

"Say ye of him (Jesus), whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I SAID I AM THE SON OF GOD."

If this isn't plain enough for you then God help you for you surely are deceived. You can't even believe the words that came directly out of the mouth of Jesus.

 

[Samson2020]

We all agree that Jesus never sinned. So why do you call him a Liar when he says I AM THE SON OF GOD? That would make him a sinner if he were GOD and not the SON of GOD.

 

[rhern53]

Luke 24:
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

 

[Dave M]

If this isn't plain enough for you then God help you for you surely are deceived. You can't even believe the words that came directly out of the mouth of Jesus.

So why do you call him a Liar when he says I AM THE SON OF GOD? That would make him a sinner if he were GOD and not the SON of GOD.

you have held you conversation well to this point,

a sure sign of in-maturity is accusing others that do not agree with your point of view, and is not a biblical way to discuss the bible at all. I know because I to am guilty of it. let us rise above the accusation, and if we have to, just dont reply, but to make accusations is far beneath anyone who is a follower of Christ

 

[Samson2020]

If the Pharisees called him a blasphemer for saying he was the Son of God, are you not calling him a liar by saying he is not the SON but rather the Father? Which would put you in the same category as the pharisees.

I didn't accuse you of anything, just stuck the truth in front of your eyes with reasoning. And stated that your doctrine is a doctrine of deception and therefore you who espouse such doctrine are deceived.

And if I remember correctly you sir were the one rebuking me in Jesus name just yesterday because you have no ground to stand on.

If you can't stand up to your own litmus test than don't pull one out.

 

[rhern53]

Thank you Jesus

 

[Dave M]

If the Pharisees called him a blasphemer for saying he was the Son of God, are you not calling him a liar by saying he is not the SON but rather the Father? Which would put you in the same category as the pharisees.

I didn't accuse you of anything, just stuck the truth in front of your eyes with reasoning. And stated that your doctrine is a doctrine of deception and therefore you who espouse such doctrine are deceived.

And if I remember correctly you sir were the one rebuking me in Jesus name just yesterday because you have no ground to stand on.

If you can't stand up to your own litmus test than don't pull one out.

it is easy to accuse people that dont agree with you that they are blind anyone can do it, I could do it to you but that is not biblical at all, the bible says to be patient kind and loving, even says to endure evil. We will not get each other to change one mind on this.I respect you opinion and have sited many many ways to prove you wrong but we will not agree.

You wont find any respected theologians or scholars that are held in high esteem in Christian circles that agree with you either.

I suggest you move on from this thread

y

 

[Samson2020]

Why can't you just answer the question?

 

[Samson2020]

Instead you avoid it like the plague because it doesn't fit you doctrine.

 

[Dave M]

Instead you avoid it like the plague because it doesn't fit you doctrine.

dear brother we both have stated our beliefs and have made valid points to support the case, no one will change each others mind. Let us conduct ourselfs as the bible says

2 Timothy 2:23-24
Have nothing to do with foolish, ignorant controversies; you know that they breed quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,

have a good day, all the answers to any question you might have been stated numerous times in this thread.