Faith comes by Hearing, but Obedience comes by Fear!

[bro.tan]

Is there any scripture that indicates that anyone before the law was given through Moses observed Sabbath ritual?

Well, before Mose time there were something people did, such as offering to the Lord, which where being done, on the High, and Holy Sabbath days, which could be consider ritual as you call it.

Remember Cain and abel...In Genesis 4: 1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. 2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect.

So we have offering to the Lord which was still past down to the generations.

In Genesis 8:20 - And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

We also have Abraham, when offer his son Issac. Genesis 22:2 - And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Genesis 22:3 - And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ***, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
Genesis 22:8 - And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together

In Genesis 35:14 - And Jacob set up a pillar in the place where he talked with him, even a pillar of stone: and he poured a drink offering thereon, and he poured oil thereon.

And of Course we have Moses in Exodus 10:25 - And Moses said, Thou must give us also sacrifices and burnt offerings, that we may sacrifice unto the LORD our God.

 

[jiggyfly]

Well, before Mose time there were something people did, such as offering to the Lord, which where being done, on the High, and Holy Sabbath days, which could be consider ritual as you call it.

Remember Cain and abel...In Genesis 4: 1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. 2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect.

So we have offering to the Lord which was still past down to the generations.

In Genesis 8:20 - And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

We also have Abraham, when offer his son Issac. Genesis 22:2 - And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Genesis 22:3 - And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ***, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
Genesis 22:8 - And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together

In Genesis 35:14 - And Jacob set up a pillar in the place where he talked with him, even a pillar of stone: and he poured a drink offering thereon, and he poured oil thereon.

And of Course we have Moses in Exodus 10:25 - And Moses said, Thou must give us also sacrifices and burnt offerings, that we may sacrifice unto the LORD our God.

See no mention of Sabbath days in those scriptures, got any others?

 

[jiggyfly]

Those are some very good verses and I like the way you touch on 1John 4:18. Also lets keep in mind what Paul said is 2 Corinthians 7: 14 For if I have boasted any thing to him of you, I am not ashamed; but as we spake all things to you in truth, even so our boasting, which I made before Titus, is found a truth. 15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him. 16 I rejoice therefore that I have confidence in you in all things. These brothers and sisters knew that serving God was serious business and trials in life. Paul suffer a lot of things teaching the word of God, which consist of the law (commandment) statues and Judgement, fruit of the spirit, etc, and with all that being said, Paul said in Hebrews 2:2 - For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; Lets see what that recompence of reward is that Paul is saying in Ephesians 5:6 - Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience


So Paul is letting us know that their is wrath of God, and that wrath of God is for the transgression and disobedience. Lets us also keep in mind what written in (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law.


peace in Jesus name

I still don't see obedience coming through fear in the scriptures you mentioned.
Hear is another scripture to add though.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2Tim. 1:7

Not focusing on the fear in this scripture but rather the word love, God has given us a spirit of love and as pointed out in my previous post in 1John 4, perfect love casts out all fear including a fear of judgment.:wink:

 

[bro.tan]

See no mention of Sabbath days in those scriptures, got any others?

You ask for the rituals, remember. I'll have to get back to you on that, but I would like to know whats the point, of seeing the sabbath day mention before the days of Moses?

 

[bro.tan]

I still don't see obedience coming through fear in the scriptures you mentioned.
Hear is another scripture to add though.
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2Tim. 1:7

Not focusing on the fear in this scripture but rather the word love, God has given us a spirit of love and as pointed out in my previous post in 1John 4, perfect love casts out all fear including a fear of judgment.:wink:

Yea, those are some good verses you quoting, but, understand they come with conditions, not automatic. You pretend you didn't see the words disobedient, wrath of God, fear and trembling, recompense for reward, transgression, in those verses, Ok...Now, Lets take a look at what Jesus said in (Matt. 7:21-23) (v.21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father, which is in heaven. You mean you must do more than call on the name of the Lord to enter into the kingdom of heaven? (Which will be set up on this earth)? (v.22) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? And in thy name have cast out devils? And in thy name done many wonderful works? (v.23) And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.]Now this is not the harlot, the thief, or the murder, these are religious people; some had the power to cast out devils. And what did they put before the Lord? Their works! It’s obvious that their iniquity overrode their wonderful works. But they put their works on the table before the Lord, that’s what you are going to be judged by, your works!

It’s easy to say how much you love the Lord, and you may be able to deceive man, but God knows the mind. Many profess they know God, but in their works they deny him everyday. (Titus 1:16) They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him; being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate. Yea, you are talking about how you know God with your lips, but by your works you are doing something totally different. The Lord God commanded you to remember the Sabbath day (which is the seventh day of the week) to keep it holy and you deny him to his face by saying "I go to church on Sunday (the first day of the week) because Paul broke bread on Sunday". Or because I think Jesus rose on Sunday Morning.

In (Heb.11) people gave up a lot, some even their lives in exchange for their soul. You see they had great faith (belief) that their souls (bodies) would be raised at the first resurrection. And some of you won’t even give up some of the littlest things like, going to church on Sunday, the pagan holidays of Christmas and Easter, praying to the Virgin Mary, and I could go on and on. And most so-called Christians know these rituals have nothing to do with Jesus and the bible. But do they understand that they are offensive to God? Maybe it’s because you have more faith in man than God, maybe it’s because you fear how man is going to treat you, and you don’t fear God. But listen up; Jesus said in Matthew 16: (v.27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his holy angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Now these are the words of Jesus (the Son of man), you know the savior of the world. He said that when he comes he is going to judge every man according to his works. Who has deceived you into believing that all you need to do is have faith in the Lord and you will be saved?

Lets continue in Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Theres a train on Sunday (the first day of the week), and theres a train on Saturday (the seventh day of the week) They both have Jesus name on them, but, they are going in different direction. Only one is written in the Bible, only one is going to the real Jesus.

 

[jari]

Theres a train on Sunday (the first day of the week), and theres a train on Saturday (the seventh day of the week) They both have Jesus name on them, but, they are going in different direction. Only one is written in the Bible, only one is going to the real Jesus.

should there be train to real Jesus we should all have entered that train and found Jesus.

works truly cant save us because Jesus said no man can pay price for him self and we should follow Him, because he has paid the price.

Matthew 16:24-27

because the life is found in Jesus.
we cant earn life but we can find it from Jesus.

 

[bro.tan]

should there be train to real Jesus we should all have entered that train and found Jesus.

works truly cant save us because Jesus said no man can pay price for him self and we should follow Him, because he has paid the price.

Matthew 16:24-27

because the life is found in Jesus.
we cant earn life but we can find it from Jesus.

Saying works can't help us is a known Sunday doctrine mind set and not Biblical. Paul clearly said in (Gal. 6:3-5, 7) (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You mean you thought that all you had to do was confess the name of Jesus and that was it? Brothers and sisters you must work to get salvation. (v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.

That Sunday doctrine mind set have people ignoring these writing from Paul.

 

[Kit Carson]

Actually salvation is a gift. I has nothing to do with works as most define works.

Ephesians 2: 8-9. Specifically salvation is a gift, and not for us to boast about; by the action of good deeds or works as we define them.

Some define works as I did this or I did that for the church or I gave to this or to that or I helped this person or that one......I have good works. Cool you do, but that is not what works means.

Bad works or works of Satan are , murder, adultery, lies, stealing, boasting and many other things.

God works are the works of God that are placed in us , humility, kindness, compassion, love, and the desire to seek God. One cannot be saved and not have these works within them.....they just happen.

It is greatly admirable to help others, as the complete meaning of Paul in Chapter 6 of Galatians. It does basically say if one of us falls those who see this are to spiritually help the other, to with kindness and compassion and the works within us help them bear their burden. It is also saying to not ignore this, you cannot help someone if you think you are better than they.

So we each examine ourselves and find if we are kind and compassionate and if we are following the desires of Christ.

No salvation is a gift, it cannot be earned, bought, sold, or begged. Nothing we can do can earn it. It is a gift of grace.

I am proof of that, I did not love God, I never even thought about God. I had done no great works as defined by the human race. I could have cared less about some church , but yet.......God through his grace and through Christ granted me salvation and continued to teach me his way. I did not earn this...it was freely given.

Praise God and Thank you Christ.....if I could only be a bit as good as you.

Kit

 

[SpiritLedEd]

but yet.......God through his grace and through Christ granted me salvation and continued to teach me his way. I did not earn this...it was freely given.

I'm blessed that God knew my past, my present, and my future when, many years ago, He began to draw me to Himself without me realizing at the time what He was up to. I had done the "church thing" all my life, but it wasn't until the late 1970s/early 1980s when I was asked to participate in church services as a lector (reading Scripture verses to the congregation) that Bible reading on the altar on Sundays ignited my fire for God and His Word.

SLE

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Saying works can't help us is a known Sunday doctrine mind set and not Biblical. Paul clearly said in (Gal. 6:3-5, 7) (v.3) For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself. (v.4) But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another. The book says let every man prove his own work, and if your work is good then you will rejoice in it. (v.5) For every man shall bear his own burden. That’s right; every man must bear his own burden. You mean you thought that all you had to do was confess the name of Jesus and that was it? Brothers and sisters you must work to get salvation. (v.7) Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. God is not to be played with. Whatsoever you plant, that’s what you are going to reap. Be it good works unto eternal life, or evil works unto eternal damnation. The choice is yours, and your works belong to you.

That Sunday doctrine mind set have people ignoring these writing from Paul.

You really think you can work your way into salvation?
Look!!
Ephesians 2:7-9 (King James Version)


<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29237">7</sup>That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29238">8</sup>For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-29239">9</sup>Not of works, lest any man should boast.




Trusting in the NAME of JESUS will get you saved.
Mark 16:16 (King James Version)


<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-24890">16</sup>He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


Acts 2:21
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Romans 10:12-13 (King James Version)


<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-28201">12</sup>For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-28202">13</sup>For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


That's not works...its trust.


So why do you put shackles on people Tan?


Acts 15:10-12 (King James Version)


<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-27453">10</sup>Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-27454">11</sup>But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-27455">12</sup>Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.


Tan you are seriously decieved by that Romanist religion. Get to Know GOD and let HIM teach you son. That is why the HOLY SPIRIT came to us. HE is our teacher not some unsaved Philistine.

 

[bro.tan]

Actually salvation is a gift. I has nothing to do with works as most define works.

Ephesians 2: 8-9. Specifically salvation is a gift, and not for us to boast about; by the action of good deeds or works as we define them.

Some define works as I did this or I did that for the church or I gave to this or to that or I helped this person or that one......I have good works. Cool you do, but that is not what works means.

Bad works or works of Satan are , murder, adultery, lies, stealing, boasting and many other things.

God works are the works of God that are placed in us , humility, kindness, compassion, love, and the desire to seek God. One cannot be saved and not have these works within them.....they just happen.

It is greatly admirable to help others, as the complete meaning of Paul in Chapter 6 of Galatians. It does basically say if one of us falls those who see this are to spiritually help the other, to with kindness and compassion and the works within us help them bear their burden. It is also saying to not ignore this, you cannot help someone if you think you are better than they.

So we each examine ourselves and find if we are kind and compassionate and if we are following the desires of Christ.

No salvation is a gift, it cannot be earned, bought, sold, or begged. Nothing we can do can earn it. It is a gift of grace.

I am proof of that, I did not love God, I never even thought about God. I had done no great works as defined by the human race. I could have cared less about some church , but yet.......God through his grace and through Christ granted me salvation and continued to teach me his way. I did not earn this...it was freely given.

Praise God and Thank you Christ.....if I could only be a bit as good as you.

Kit

Lets understand what Paul is saying in Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

When a person read this verse, without understanding, it get taking out taking out of contexts. This is what Jesus did for the creation.
Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) Paul is saying that it wasn't our works, that Jesus came down in died for the creation, Paul is not saying that after Jesus died for the creation, you don't have to show any works. We are save for the fact that if Jesus didn't come down and died, for the creation, the whole creation would go into the lake of fire, even prophets. Paul said in Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Lets skip down to verse 17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Understand, what Jesus came and did goes back to the beginning of the creation. Jesus save the creation, not every individual, this is people have to understand.

Now with that being said, lets go into (James 2:14-18, 20,21) (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem. (v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead.

 

[bro.tan]

I'm blessed that God knew my past, my present, and my future when, many years ago, He began to draw me to Himself without me realizing at the time what He was up to. I had done the "church thing" all my life, but it wasn't until the late 1970s/early 1980s when I was asked to participate in church services as a lector (reading Scripture verses to the congregation) that Bible reading on the altar on Sundays ignited my fire for God and His Word.

SLE

I understand your feeling and things you have been throught, but understand that Jesus kept the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week and Sunday, the first day of the week. Understand that the keeping of Sunday as the Christian sabbath is not of God but of Man. If you are a true Christian, which means a follower of Christ or to be Christ like; then you should not following a day set up by man? I have proof that Paul kept the Lord’s sabbath well after the death and resurrection of Christ. Recorded history will tell you why and when.

Ample evidence from history shows that the celebration of Sunday originated from pagan practices of SUN WORSHIP. In March of 321 A.D., the Roman Emperor Constantine, who was at first a sun-worshiper and later a Christian convert, issued the first decree declaring Sunday to be a legal day of rest. In 336 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church officially changed the observance of Sabbath to Sunday for political and economic expediency. Since then, the original Sabbath gradually gave way to Sunday observance and the practice remains to this day.

 

[jari]

Lets understand what Paul is saying in Ephesians 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

When a person read this verse, without understanding, it get taking out taking out of contexts. This is what Jesus did for the creation.
Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) Paul is saying that it wasn't our works, that Jesus came down in died for the creation, Paul is not saying that after Jesus died for the creation, you don't have to show any works.

it says that by grace are you saved. so you are already saved through faith. Its not something you must do now. you dont have to save your self, you can't.

what you say about grace being possibility to access tree of life isnt true. have you read in the bible about jewish law? they had the law which they needed to follow. But bible says Jesus made us free from the law. now if Jesus made us free from the law and we are not jews then why should we again start to obey law just like the jews who don't have Jesus as savior?

this is why Jesus is savior,the messiah that man does not need to try and justify him self through the law like jews had to. and that is the reason bible says by grace are you saved.

so grace isnt to say Ok you may start keeping the law now. No people have always been allowed to keep the law. the problem is law doesnt make any one righteuss. by law comes the knowledge of the sin.

but bible tells us clearly that we are made free from the law. that means any law.
otherwise we might just as well call our selfs jews. there would be no difference really if you were right.



God bless you

 

[bro.tan]

it says that by grace are you saved. so you are already saved through faith. Its not something you must do now. you dont have to save your self, you can't.

what you say about grace being possibility to access tree of life isnt true. have you read in the bible about jewish law? they had the law which they needed to follow. But bible says Jesus made us free from the law. now if Jesus made us free from the law and we are not jews then why should we again start to obey law just like the jews who don't have Jesus as savior?

this is why Jesus is savior,the messiah that man does not need to try and justify him self through the law like jews had to. and that is the reason bible says by grace are you saved.

so grace isnt to say Ok you may start keeping the law now. No people have always been allowed to keep the law. the problem is law doesnt make any one righteuss. by law comes the knowledge of the sin.

but bible tells us clearly that we are made free from the law. that means any law.
otherwise we might just as well call our selfs jews. there would be no difference really if you were right.



God bless you

I quote clean clear verses and its sad that you look over aaallll those others verses as well. You are right about the Bible telling us that we are made free from the law. But the law that Paul is talking about in that verse is not the Law (commandments) that you think, its another law Paul is talking about. But, before I go any further about the law, you need to go back and reread my post about the reason Jesus came died, cause you over look to much that Paul said that I post.

 

[Kit Carson]

I understand your feeling and things you have been throught, but understand that Jesus kept the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week and Sunday, the first day of the week. Understand that the keeping of Sunday as the Christian sabbath is not of God but of Man. If you are a true Christian, which means a follower of Christ or to be Christ like; then you should not following a day set up by man? I have proof that Paul kept the Lord’s sabbath well after the death and resurrection of Christ. Recorded history will tell you why and when.

Ample evidence from history shows that the celebration of Sunday originated from pagan practices of SUN WORSHIP. In March of 321 A.D., the Roman Emperor Constantine, who was at first a sun-worshiper and later a Christian convert, issued the first decree declaring Sunday to be a legal day of rest. In 336 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church officially changed the observance of Sabbath to Sunday for political and economic expediency. Since then, the original Sabbath gradually gave way to Sunday observance and the practice remains to this day.

I dunno.....I will get into trouble with this I am sure. I simply listen to what the Holy Spirit teaches me. When I do not understand or I am curious or troubled I will tell God so. I may be driving down the road or working or whatever and all of a sudden answers are given.

I try to present to be totally honest and open and to accept God and Christ as they are....good, and full of mercy and grace.

I know I did not earn salvation. It was given to me out of love . Did I deserve this and do I still deserve this......actually no, as as good as I can be I still fall and do something stupid time to time......it may be to be angry when I should not.....or I may present Gods word in a wrong way.....so I am but a man. Saved by grace and once I did accept that, I was able to become open and honest with God and with all.

Works of the physical nature, such as buy a carton of food and give it to those who need, to pay their rent if need be, whatever it is, is a good work. In the way we see works......and you know, when you accept God, they seem to come with him. If someone makes you aware that they are in a very hurtful way.....and if you can help will you not do so?? Or if you cannot maybe guide them to help?

All this fussing about works to me is silly. I desire to help when and if I can.....be it a kind word , a smile or actual material help and substance to another.

But none of these things can earn me salvation. I cannot do all these things and not accept God as some do and expect to obtain salvation. Some on earth do a great many good deeds, for the purpose of purchasing salvation......see what I did.....looky at me....why did you not mention my name when you stood up there and gave thanks to God for the recent works done? I wanted to be recognized by my works.......Does not work that way.....works come when we accept God......for sure.

But salvation is a gift. Given out of love. It is given so works can be accomplished......

Such as I see it.

Respectfully

Kit

 

[jari]

I quote clean clear verses and its sad that you look over aaallll those others verses as well. You are right about the Bible telling us that we are made free from the law. But the law that Paul is talking about in that verse is not the Law (commandments) that you think, its another law Paul is talking about. But, before I go any further about the law, you need to go back and reread my post about the reason Jesus came died, cause you over look to much that Paul said that I post.

i didnt overlook things you said... i just believe you have misinterpreted the verses. and your idea of Jesus dying for "creation" isnt biblical at all. it simply isnt in whole bible. Mercy and grace came through Jesus for all who believe. Likewise sin came through adam for all who sin. did Jesus sin? no. bible says all have sinned and fall short in the glroy of God. It doesnt say all have been born sinners. Nope. Everybody has committed their own sins and all have sinned. - except Jesus.

(the sin entered through adam in to the world, before this there was no sin)

also can you show me verse where it says we are under some new law?

God Bless you...

 

[SpiritLedEd]

You pretend you didn't see the words disobedient, wrath of God, fear and trembling, recompense for reward, transgression, in those verses,It’s easy to say how much you love the Lord, and you may be able to deceive man, but God knows the mind.

Who has deceived you into believing that all you need to do is have faith in the Lord and you will be saved?

bro.tan, Your thinly veiled insults directed at member Jiggyfly are in violation of the forum rules (which I hope you read) and totally unacceptable. I'm going to issue an official warning to you as a result.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

 

[bro.tan]

I dunno.....I will get into trouble with this I am sure. I simply listen to what the Holy Spirit teaches me. When I do not understand or I am curious or troubled I will tell God so. I may be driving down the road or working or whatever and all of a sudden answers are given.

I try to present to be totally honest and open and to accept God and Christ as they are....good, and full of mercy and grace.

I know I did not earn salvation. It was given to me out of love . Did I deserve this and do I still deserve this......actually no, as as good as I can be I still fall and do something stupid time to time......it may be to be angry when I should not.....or I may present Gods word in a wrong way.....so I am but a man. Saved by grace and once I did accept that, I was able to become open and honest with God and with all.

Works of the physical nature, such as buy a carton of food and give it to those who need, to pay their rent if need be, whatever it is, is a good work. In the way we see works......and you know, when you accept God, they seem to come with him. If someone makes you aware that they are in a very hurtful way.....and if you can help will you not do so?? Or if you cannot maybe guide them to help?

All this fussing about works to me is silly. I desire to help when and if I can.....be it a kind word , a smile or actual material help and substance to another.

But none of these things can earn me salvation. I cannot do all these things and not accept God as some do and expect to obtain salvation. Some on earth do a great many good deeds, for the purpose of purchasing salvation......see what I did.....looky at me....why did you not mention my name when you stood up there and gave thanks to God for the recent works done? I wanted to be recognized by my works.......Does not work that way.....works come when we accept God......for sure.

But salvation is a gift. Given out of love. It is given so works can be accomplished......

Such as I see it.

Respectfully

Kit

Thats totally Sunday doctrine mind frame and and totally not Biblical. You can't read what you are saying out the Bible. You can't even read going to church on Sunday in the Bible or did any prophets, apostles, or Jesus kept the first day of the week. And you seem to be happy knowing nothing. If the Holy Ghost work the way you think, you wouldn't be keeping a day that Jesus didn't keep! You would keep the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week, the Holy Ghost knows this.
　
"Hear the word of the Lord, ye children of Israel: For the Lord hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land." (Hosea 4:1)

Due to this lack of knowledge, man is on the brink of destruction, because of his transgression against God. The ability to think, and to know good from evil is the only thing that separates man from beast. Man has taken this gift from God for granted, and has chosen evil over good.

 

[bro.tan]

i didnt overlook things you said... i just believe you have misinterpreted the verses. and your idea of Jesus dying for "creation" isnt biblical at all. it simply isnt in whole bible. Mercy and grace came through Jesus for all who believe. Likewise sin came through adam for all who sin. did Jesus sin? no. bible says all have sinned and fall short in the glroy of God. It doesnt say all have been born sinners. Nope. Everybody has committed their own sins and all have sinned. - except Jesus.

(the sin entered through adam in to the world, before this there was no sin)

also can you show me verse where it says we are under some new law?

God Bless you...

I didn't misinterpreted the verses, I just wish you had more of a heart to understand. Now I'm going to prove one thing you said, and that we are born in sin or born sinner. Now, Paul said in Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Now, Lets go to 2 Corinthians 5: 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. 21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him

So Paul is tell us in Romans all have sin, so that means we are all sinners, before christ, and with good understanding you would see that born in sin, is just the same as all have sin. We know that Jesus knew no sin. So common sense would tell you that since Adam, all men where born in sin or where sinners, because all men sin.

 

[bro.tan]

bro.tan, Your thinly veiled insults directed at member Jiggyfly are in violation of the forum rules (which I hope you read) and totally unacceptable. I'm going to issue an official warning to you as a result.

Spirit Led Ed (SLE)

I don't see any veiled insult that I did. Using the word decieve is not word for insult. I believe you are looking at how I use the word decieve in the wrong way. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 15:33 - Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners. What evil communication about what I said or post? You didn't post all of what I said, you just post that little piece. Paul also said in Titus 3:3 - For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

This is a known fact.....If you are not keeping the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week as it is written in the Bible, that Jesus kept, the apostles and prophets, then you are being decieve, and that also being disobedient. Only if its wilfully, thoses that don't know, can't be countable for there action.

Hebrews 13:8 - Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever