Faith comes by Hearing, but Obedience comes by Fear!

[bro.tan]

If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

Lets read something Paul said in Romans, that fly right over people heads.....(Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus, not Titles, but Jesus name. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. Lets read these full verses....Lets go into Hebrews (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

Now, Jesus said in Luke 12:5 - But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. Lets take a look at what Paul said in Acts 10:35 - But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. Also in Acts 13:16 - Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience. Where is the fear of God today? Where? 1 Peter 2:17 - Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

 

[gdemoss]

You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

Can you show examples of this from scripture that I may learn from the Word of God? Maybe the Ethiopian eunich? How did he qualify all of these? Cornelius? Please show me from scripture your truth in examples of people who went through your complete process of being prepared to be baptized.

Thank you in advance,

Gary

 

[brakelite]

Can you show examples of this from scripture that I may learn from the Word of God? Maybe the Ethiopian eunich? How did he qualify all of these? Cornelius? Please show me from scripture your truth in examples of people who went through your complete process of being prepared to be baptized.

Thank you in advance,

Gary

How about Jesus? And are we not to walk as He walked?

 

[gdemoss]

How about Jesus? And are we not to walk as He walked?

Yes, but what has this to do with the claims made for prerequisites to baptism? Am I missing something?

In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

 

[bro.tan]

Can you show examples of this from scripture that I may learn from the Word of God? Maybe the Ethiopian eunich? How did he qualify all of these? Cornelius? Please show me from scripture your truth in examples of people who went through your complete process of being prepared to be baptized.

Thank you in advance,

Gary

Before I get started let me state that the scriptures are from Genesis to Malachi and the verses are from Matthew to Revelation. You implied on example in the new testament, and then that case lets first go to the master."And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16). Now, after hereing from Jesus this should really be enough, but lets put a little more on the table. Now lets go into Matthew 3:11 - I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Lets go into Matthew 3:16 - And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: So we see Jesus getting baptize and of course to be a christian, a true christian, we must do the same. Now lets see how Peter and John the baptis is on the same page. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38) So what happen if a person do not get baptize in the name of Jesus, then of course they don't reciev the gift of the Holy Ghost. Why? Because, Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16):

Now lets look at and example, pay attention to this because this will answer your question about Cornelius and the Ethiopian, and this Ethiopian, was actually a Hebrew, but thats another lesson for another time. Lets get the example...."And it came to pass, that, while Apollo was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, "We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost." And he said unto them, "unto what then were ye baptized?" And they said unto John's baptism. Then Paul said, "John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him who should come after him, that is, Jesus Christ." When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve." (Acts 19:1-7)

So far, Paul, Peter and Jesus are all in line. Lets go to one or two more place. 1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ

 

[gdemoss]

I am reposting your post because I was having trouble reading the font and block text, sorry it is just something with me. I'll respond when I finish reading it.

Before I get started let me state that the scriptures are from Genesis to Malachi and the verses are from Matthew to Revelation. You implied on example in the new testament, and then that case lets first go to the master."And he said unto them, go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." (Mark 16:15-16).

Now, after hereing from Jesus this should really be enough, but lets put a little more on the table. Now lets go into Matthew 3:11 - I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Lets go into Matthew 3:16 - And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: So we see Jesus getting baptize and of course to be a christian, a true christian, we must do the same.

Now lets see how Peter and John the baptis is on the same page. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38) So what happen if a person do not get baptize in the name of Jesus, then of course they don't reciev the gift of the Holy Ghost. Why? Because, Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16):

Now lets look at and example, pay attention to this because this will answer your question about Cornelius and the Ethiopian, and this Ethiopian, was actually a Hebrew, but thats another lesson for another time. Lets get the example..."And it came to pass, that, while Apollo was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, he said unto them, Have ye received the Holy ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, "We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost." And he said unto them, "unto what then were ye baptized?" And they said unto John's baptism. Then Paul said, "John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him who should come after him, that is, Jesus Christ." When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. When Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve." (Acts 19:1-7)

So far, Paul, Peter and Jesus are all in line. Lets go to one or two more place. 1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[lioncub]

One does not have to confess that Jesus is Lord to be baptised. Simply believing is enough in order to be baptised.

 

[Fraction]

If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

Lets read something Paul said in Romans, that fly right over people heads.....(Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus, not Titles, but Jesus name. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. Lets read these full verses....Lets go into Hebrews (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

Now, Jesus said in Luke 12:5 - But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. Lets take a look at what Paul said in Acts 10:35 - But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. Also in Acts 13:16 - Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience. Where is the fear of God today? Where? 1 Peter 2:17 - Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Matthew 4
Matthew 4:4 "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."

I don't see where in this verse it says if we love God we will obey his every single word. I interpret this verse to mean that God's word is just as important to life and survival as bread or food.

Baptism has been a delicate issue. Water baptism is not a requirement, but it seems to me that you are not speaking of this (which is kind of pointless for me to bring it up, but oh well lol). I assume you are directing this part of your post about baptism at baptism of the holy spirit. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is obtained by faith, biblical repentance (which to me means going from being a non-believer to a believer). To add some scripture to this, there is no better than:

John 3:16

This verse obviously does not mention the holy spirit, but it is blunt about how to achieve salvation. Which means there is no other way. There aren't all too many verses that speak of baptism of the spirit, and none with a direct guide of how to obtain it. However, I believe that spiritual baptism is included with the gift of grace from God. (feel free to correct me if I am wrong about there not being exact scripture please)

Romans 23-25

There is no scripture that says that we are forgiven of present and future sinning. So how do people come to this conclusion? Why do people say it and claim it to be true? To easily explain quickly, take a look at the two verse before the ones posted:

-Romans 21 "But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify."

-Romans 22 "This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

We all have sinned. Faith cleans this sin from us. Then it makes us righteous. At this point we can assume with some safety that all sin is forgiven, past, present, and future. It would of course be an assumption based off of the fact that we are seen as righteous while being under Grace.

We continue into Hebrews 6, which is placed right after "Falling Away". Take a look at Hebrews 5:11-14. This is an introduction into chapter 6, that is saying it is time to give up the old ways, and move onto the new.

Hebrews 6

After reading Hebrews 5:11-14, it directly carries over into Hebrews 6. At this time, the people being spoken to were either still living by the old covenant or desperately afraid to get rid of it. Hebrews 6 is saying that there will never be another sacrifice for your sins, because the ultimate one that covers them all has been made. Animal sacrifices are not only just no longer needed, but not accepted. Jesus and His sacrifice was a one time thing, will not happen again, and isn't needed. So simply put, Jesus is your only hope and every other method is useless. (I guess that was bluntly expressed as well lol)

To address your comment about not keeping commandments, but still believing we are okay under Grace:

-Romans 4:5 "However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness."

When it comes to literal fear of God, there is a lot out there. Seeing as a lot of faith in a lot of Christians are based off of fear. Fear of being punished, death, etc etc (way too many to list). However, when it comes to fear as in respect, respect can be given in many ways. To me, the act of faith is also an act of the common use of fear/respect in the bible.

Thank you for your post. I hope that you can enjoy my response and know that I offer respect to you and your view.

 

[gdemoss]

Bro.tan, let me begin by saying that I appreciated the title of the original post but was seeking clarity upon that which you posted within regarding the prerequisites for baptism that you propose the bible teaches. After having examined what you have presented, I can see where those who were already acquainted with the Word of God such as the Ethiopian and Cornelius could actually fit that description. What we don't have is any examples of people who came to believe that were ignorant of the Old Testament prior to their baptism or receiving of the Holy Spirit. We don't have any instances documented that show us the need for teaching the Word of God from Genesis to Revelation prior to baptism as you state is necessary as a prerequisite. On the other hand we don't have any scripture to support it as unnecessary either except for the fact that the New Testament wasn't available in its entirety for at least 60 years after the death of Christ. Only that one must hear and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ the Son of God who was sent to be Lord and Savior of all. That baptism in and of itself is an action preformed where one is made one in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord, being conformed unto his death and arising unto new life. I understand this to mean that repentance from dead works must come first and faith placed in the atoning blood of Christ as well as his example of the righteousness of God in the flesh made manifest that we should walk as he walked in newness of life.

I hesitate when you begin to speak of the laws that are found from Genesis to Revelation as the only law that I am under is the law of Christ through the grace of God. I must have the faith of faithful Abraham which means that my works must justify my faith through my actions. I must believe what God has said and it will be accounted to me for righteousness in the resurrection of the just and the unjust.

See if what you say is true, then I have an issue. It would mean that I do not possess the Holy Spirit within me and that which has been teaching me is not of God. Because I did not follow the formula you presented for the purpose of baptism. I had a water baptism where I was fully emersed in water in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Prior to this I actually experienced the baptism of repentance from dead works and turning to the living God. No one has ever laid hands on me but there came a distinct point in time where I began to be taught by something from within me of the truth of the Holy Scriptures. I have been a student of this one whom I believe to be the Spirit of God our Father that is indwelling me. He does not excuse my sin nor allows me to fellowship with those who do excuse sin in their lives but rather reprove the works of darkness. He teaches me of the person of Jesus Christ and what it means to pick up my cross and follow him daily.

But according to your definition it cannot be God. What he has taught me is that one must repent of sin and turn toward God believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ the Son of God. He who believes is then baptized with the Holy Spirit of God and washed by the water of the word in truth and regenerated unto life. Full knowledge does not precede baptism but comes post as one is brought up to the fullness of the stature that is in Christ Jesus through the teaching ministries of God.

Thank you for sharing what you have with me and causing me to examine what I have been led to believe. I trust that God himself will guide me into all truth through his Holy Spirit as he has promised. In 2 Corinthians he promised that if I would come out of the world and be separate unto him that he would walk in me and I would be his son. Having, therefore these precious promises, I have been cleansing myself from the filthiness of the flesh and the spirit in the fear of God as your title spoke of. Obedience comes by fear to which we agree.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

 

[bro.tan]

Bro.tan, let me begin by saying that I appreciated the title of the original post but was seeking clarity upon that which you posted within regarding the prerequisites for baptism that you propose the bible teaches. After having examined what you have presented, I can see where those who were already acquainted with the Word of God such as the Ethiopian and Cornelius could actually fit that description. What we don't have is any examples of people who came to believe that were ignorant of the Old Testament prior to their baptism or receiving of the Holy Spirit. We don't have any instances documented that show us the need for teaching the Word of God from Genesis to Revelation prior to baptism as you state is necessary as a prerequisite. On the other hand we don't have any scripture to support it as unnecessary either except for the fact that the New Testament wasn't available in its entirety for at least 60 years after the death of Christ. Only that one must hear and believe the gospel of Jesus Christ the Son of God who was sent to be Lord and Savior of all. That baptism in and of itself is an action preformed where one is made one in the death, burial and resurrection of the Lord, being conformed unto his death and arising unto new life. I understand this to mean that repentance from dead works must come first and faith placed in the atoning blood of Christ as well as his example of the righteousness of God in the flesh made manifest that we should walk as he walked in newness of life.

I hesitate when you begin to speak of the laws that are found from Genesis to Revelation as the only law that I am under is the law of Christ through the grace of God. I must have the faith of faithful Abraham which means that my works must justify my faith through my actions. I must believe what God has said and it will be accounted to me for righteousness in the resurrection of the just and the unjust.

See if what you say is true, then I have an issue. It would mean that I do not possess the Holy Spirit within me and that which has been teaching me is not of God. Because I did not follow the formula you presented for the purpose of baptism. I had a water baptism where I was fully emersed in water in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Prior to this I actually experienced the baptism of repentance from dead works and turning to the living God. No one has ever laid hands on me but there came a distinct point in time where I began to be taught by something from within me of the truth of the Holy Scriptures. I have been a student of this one whom I believe to be the Spirit of God our Father that is indwelling me. He does not excuse my sin nor allows me to fellowship with those who do excuse sin in their lives but rather reprove the works of darkness. He teaches me of the person of Jesus Christ and what it means to pick up my cross and follow him daily.

But according to your definition it cannot be God. What he has taught me is that one must repent of sin and turn toward God believing the Gospel of Jesus Christ the Son of God. He who believes is then baptized with the Holy Spirit of God and washed by the water of the word in truth and regenerated unto life. Full knowledge does not precede baptism but comes post as one is brought up to the fullness of the stature that is in Christ Jesus through the teaching ministries of God.

Thank you for sharing what you have with me and causing me to examine what I have been led to believe. I trust that God himself will guide me into all truth through his Holy Spirit as he has promised. In 2 Corinthians he promised that if I would come out of the world and be separate unto him that he would walk in me and I would be his son. Having, therefore these precious promises, I have been cleansing myself from the filthiness of the flesh and the spirit in the fear of God as your title spoke of. Obedience comes by fear to which we agree.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

Allow me to share another verse with you, because being baptize has always been God's protocol, even in the Old Testament. Paul will tell us, lets go into 1Corinthains 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

So we see that Israel and the strangers who was with Israel in those days, all got baptize in the sea. We also see that Jesus christ was the God that Moses was talking to in those days and not the farther (I thought I point that out) according to what we just read. Just wanted to put that on the table as well.

 

[bro.tan]

In 1John :1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

The only way we know we sin, is because of the law (commandment). Paul said this in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin. Didn't Jesus say in Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. Didn't Jesus also say in Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Now we have to understand that keeping the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week is also included in keeping the commandments. "Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because, that in it, He had rested from all his work which God created and made." (Gen 2:1-3). The bible reveals that God blessed and set apart (sanctified) the seventh day. This day is holy unto God, and it is the only day of the week that we are commanded to honor. "Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation: ye shall do no work therein: it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings." (Lev 23:3). A holy convocation is an assembly of the people of God, who come together to worship him.


There are two calendars that exist. God's calendar and man's calendar; both consist of seven day weeks. The difference in the two calendars is that God has named the days with numbers, and man has given the days names. God's calendar begins with day 1 and ends with day 7, his weekly Sabbath. Man's calendar names day 1 as, Sunday, and ends with Saturday, day 7, God's weekly Sabbath. Although man's calendar is universal (the same all over the world) the majority of professed Christians worship the Lord on Sunday which is clearly the 1st day of the week not the 7th day that the Lord has hallowed, sanctified and commanded that we keep. Now in the Bible we always read the sabbath day or high sabbath day or Holy day, when it referrs to going to church, in other day is mention in he Bible its referr to by numbers, this makes a big differents brothers and sisters, because today are need to look at thing just the same as if we living in the apostles of prophets days. If we do that brother and sisters we would realizes that we are still living in Biblical times, because there are things or events that the Bible prophesize, that still have not happen yet.

[/SIZE]

 

[bro.tan]

Lets take this a little bit further sisters and brothers, and dig deep.

Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made.

"And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made."—Genesis 2:1-3.

God dedicated and set aside the Sabbath as a rest day—2,000 years before the first Jew. Abraham is considered by all to have been the first Jew. He lived about 2000 B.C. Biblical records indicate that the Creation of this world took place about 4000 B.C. So the Bible Sabbath is not Jewish! It is for mankind; it is for all the world.

"The Sabbath was made for man."—Mark 2:27.


"It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested, and was refreshed."—Exodus 31:17.

When we keep it, we tell all the world that we belong to God and that we serve and obey Him. The seventh-day Sabbath is a sign of our conversion, sanctification, and salvation:

"Verily My Sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you."—Exodus 31:13.

"Moreover also I gave them My Sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them."—Ezekiel 20:12.

"And hallow My Sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between Me and you, that ye may know that I am the Lord your God."—Ezekiel 20:20.

Nowhere in Scripture were we told to keep any day in honor of Christ’s resurrection. To do so is unscriptural. On the contrary, to set aside the Creation and sanctification Sabbath of the Bible—for another day of the week—and excuse it by saying that we do so "in honor of Christ’s resurrection,"—is indeed to do a very daring thing. Who dare presume to set aside the Memorial of Creation and salvation for any reason! To knowingly do so, flies in the face of repeated, direct, Biblical commands by the God of heaven. To do so denies that He is our Creator and Redeemer.

If we abandon the Bible Sabbath and try to keep another day holy, in the Judgment what excuse can we offer? There is no Bible reason for keeping the first day of the week holy instead of the seventh day.

The Apostle James tells us that if we break any part of this law, we have broken it all (James 2:10-12). We cannot tear out the Fourth Commandment without setting aside all the others as well. They all stand together, because the God of Heaven put them all together.

We do not decide which day of the week is to be kept holy unto God; He alone is to do this. It is for Him to command; it is for us to obey.

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth." This is not something local, merely for a Semitic race;—it is a commandment for all in the entire world who shall bow down and worship their Creator in humble thankfulness for His plan to save them through the life and death of Jesus Christ. It was given at the Creation of this world, and was given to every man, woman, and child who shall live on this planet.


God wrote these Ten Commandments with His own finger (Ex 31:18; Deut 9:10). He wrote them on the most enduring thing in the world, and that is rock (Ex 31:18). And He wishes to write them also on our hearts.

"This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them."—Hebrews 10:16 (Heb 8:10; Jer 31:33).

And, if we will let Him, through the New Covenant He will write His holy law upon our hearts. To have the Ten Commandments written on our hearts means two things: First, a willingness to obey them and, second, letting God enable us to do so by the grace of Jesus, His Son. Obedience to God’s law is to become an integral part of our lives.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

If we truly love God, then we will obey "Every word" that proceeds out of his mouth (Matthew 4). Baptism is one of those words. In order to be baptized, certain events must take place: You must give up a lifestyle where sin has dominion, (ruler ship) over you. Sin according to 1 John 3:4, is the transgression (breaking) of the law. You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

Lets read something Paul said in Romans, that fly right over people heads.....(Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus, not Titles, but Jesus name. And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time. So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because all have sinned, and if you continue to live you will sin again. It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. Lets read these full verses....Lets go into Hebrews (v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

Now, Jesus said in Luke 12:5 - But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him. Lets take a look at what Paul said in Acts 10:35 - But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. Also in Acts 13:16 - Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience. Where is the fear of God today? Where? 1 Peter 2:17 - Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Brother Tan
You said " You must be taught "The Word", before you can adhere to God's commandments (judgments\statues). These laws are found in the Holy Bible; beginning with Genesis and ending with Revelation. You must believe what the bible says and finally, you must confess that Jesus is Lord. Once this has been accomplished, you are qualified to be baptized in the name of Jesus.

How is it then that Paul got saved and baptized? There was no bible.
How is it that all the other disciples got saved and baptized? There was no bible.
Oh My!! How did I get saved? I had never even read the bible!
JESUS said "

1. John 1:12
   But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
   Bible Gateway passage: John 1:11-13 - King James Version
2. John 20:31
   But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

You said "

then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past."
Again Jesus said "1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Past sin, present sin if we commit them, and future sins.

JESUS said "

1 John 2:1-3 (King James Version)
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 1:9 (King James Version)
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Brother Tan You said " So what happen if a person do not get baptize in the name of Jesus, then of course they don't recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost. Why? Because, Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins."
The Word says "

1 John 1:6-8 (King James Version)

If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

It's the Blood of JESUS that cleanses us from all sin. See the word 'all'? It is all inclusive. Nothing left out.

HE said "Romans 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

If you walk in Christ (the anointed ONE and HIS anointing) there is no way Satan can even accuse you of having sin in your life.

You said "In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries"

Do you know that all these things directly contradict the WORD. Makes it blasphemy. Now I know that you don't want to blaspheme so I suggest you sit under the tutelage of a Godly man that can teach you properly

Hugs on you

 

[Kit Carson]

Well I am tired, just got in and browsed the forum. This post just kinda jumped at me.

I do not fear God. I love God. I obey because I wish to. I obey because I desire to. I have great respect for what God is capable of, but I do not fear him. I respect him.

So I work to please him, because I wish to. Not out of fear. I found out that if I do something ignorant the Holy Spirit convicts me of that and I go make it right. I do not fear as this is Gods intent and the way he does teach us.

I do not fear God, but respect, if he landed in my yard today I would take him a cup of coffee, but ask if I may approach first .

Kinda silly to be afraid of God. What is there to fear if you desire him?

Kit

 

[Peace Seeker]

God dedicated and set aside the Sabbath as a rest day—2,000 years before the first Jew. Abraham is considered by all to have been the first Jew.

Can you show me where there were any Jews in the time of Abraham? He lived long before there ever was a Jew. The term “Jew” comes from the name “Judah.” Judah was a great-grandson of Abraham. Though often called the "father of the Jewish race", Abraham was a Chaldean, from Ur of the Chaldeans. He was also a Hebrew from Eber his ancestor. But he wasn't a Jew.

Gen 14:13 "And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew ..."

 

[jiggyfly]

Faith comes by Hearing, but Obedience comes by Fear!

I read the post BroTan and was hoping you would have explained that "obedience comes through fear" or given some scripture that supports your concept.

I'm wondering if you have considered these scriptures?

Even though Jesus was God's Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. Heb. 5:8

Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love. 1John 4:18

 

[bro.tan]

How is it then that Paul got saved and baptized? There was no bible.
How is it that all the other disciples got saved and baptized? There was no bible.

The BIble in those day was from Genesis to Malachi. It was called the Old Testament or the scriptures. Paul said in Romans 15: 4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Jesus and the apostles quoted the Old Testament, all the time.

 

[bro.tan]

Can you show me where there were any Jews in the time of Abraham? He lived long before there ever was a Jew. The term “Jew” comes from the name “Judah.” Judah was a great-grandson of Abraham. Though often called the "father of the Jewish race", Abraham was a Chaldean, from Ur of the Chaldeans. He was also a Hebrew from Eber his ancestor. But he wasn't a Jew.

Gen 14:13 "And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew ..."

You are correct ( Abraham often is called the "father of the Jewish race and not a jew himself"), I was just making a point by that. But you just further exceeded my point with your concern about Abraham being a jew, that the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week is still good and Holy to the Lord this day as it was in those days, and it was made for man and not the jews only, as some people will have others to believe.

 

[jiggyfly]

You are correct ( Abraham often is called the "father of the Jewish race and not a jew himself"), I was just making a point by that. But you just further exceeded my point with your concern about Abraham being a jew, that the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week is still good and Holy to the Lord this day as it was in those days, and it was made for man and not the jews only, as some people will have others to believe.

Is there any scripture that indicates that anyone before the law was given through Moses observed Sabbath ritual?

 

[bro.tan]

I read the post BroTan and was hoping you would have explained that "obedience comes through fear" or given some scripture that supports your concept.

I'm wondering if you have considered these scriptures?

Even though Jesus was God's Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. Heb. 5:8

Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love. 1John 4:18

Those are some very good verses and I like the way you touch on 1John 4:18. Also lets keep in mind what Paul said is 2 Corinthians 7: 14 For if I have boasted any thing to him of you, I am not ashamed; but as we spake all things to you in truth, even so our boasting, which I made before Titus, is found a truth. 15 And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him. 16 I rejoice therefore that I have confidence in you in all things. These brothers and sisters knew that serving God was serious business and trials in life. Paul suffer a lot of things teaching the word of God, which consist of the law (commandment) statues and Judgement, fruit of the spirit, etc, and with all that being said, Paul said in Hebrews 2:2 - For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; Lets see what that recompence of reward is that Paul is saying in Ephesians 5:6 - Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience


So Paul is letting us know that their is wrath of God, and that wrath of God is for the transgression and disobedience. Lets us also keep in mind what written in (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law.


peace in Jesus name