Do Our Spirits Die?

[GodB4Us]

'For Christ also hath once suffered for sins,
the Just for the unjust,
that He might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh,
but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient,
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing,
wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.'
(1 Peter 3:18-20)

Hello @GodB4Us,

Our Lord was quickened by the Spirit: 'By Which,' also, 'He went and preached unto the spirits (angels) in prison ... '. See Luke 4:1.

* Abraham's bosom is not mentioned here, and it does not mean 'paradise'. With respect you are introducing your own understanding into the text, to the detriment of the truth it expresses. Our Lord went, 'by the Spirit,' to preach to the angels that, 'left their first estate,' in the time of Noah.

'And the angels which kept not their first estate,
but left their own habitation,
He hath reserved in everlasting chains
under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.'
(Jud 1:6)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Several contentions about your application.

Fallen angels cannot be redeemed as they are reserved for judgment to the lake of fire.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Revelation 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

This being written in the N.T., then Jesus was not preaching to "angels" in that prison, but to the Old Testament saints which means Jesus's story of the rich man and the beggar Lazarus is a true story and the spirit of the prophet Samuel did come up from beneath the earth and Jesus did meet the thief on the cross that day in Paradise.

Now connect the dot with His help; He had to descend first... He has not risen yet and so for Him to meet the thief in His kingdom that day would mean Paradise is Abraham's bosom where He had said He would meet the thief that day where He had preached to those in prison, including the thief that day.

After His resurrection and after His ascension, we find out from the apostle John that Paradise was moved to Heaven as Jesus brought those in prison to God in Heaven as leading the captivity captive to their Home above as only Jesus can bring them to God the Father in Heaven.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

That is the whole point of Him descending to preach to those in prison, which is Paradise aka Abraham's bosom so that He may bring those that believe in Him to God when He has resurrected and ascended to Heaven above..

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Genesis 2:7 shows us that the spirit in man is God's spirit. God is immortal, thus his spirit or breath is immortal and cannot die. We don't see any other breath or spirit put into man, save the Holy Spirit which definitely is not man.

However, Paul does frequently use death in a metaphorical sense. Consider his words,

I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. (1 Cor. 15:31 KJV)

Here Paul said he dies daily. I don't think anyone would argue that Paul literally died and was resurrected every day. I don't think anyone would argue that he died and became alive "spiritually" everyday. I think it's pretty clear that he is speaking figuratively. Also consider this,

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. (Rom. 7:9 KJV)

Here Paul says he was alive without the law but when the law came he died. He has several metaphors here. The law existed before Paul was born. So, he did not exist when the law came literally to Moses. So what does he mean by the statement, "when the commandment came"? I would submit that the statement is a metaphor for Paul understanding the law. He also says he was alive without the law. In the literal sense he was alive with and without the law. He said when the law came he died. Did Paul literally die when he understood the law. No. Or, is that a way of saying he became guilty under the law when he understood it? Consider Jesus' words.

He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
(Matt. 9:24 KJV)

Here the girl was literally dead. Yet, Jesus uses sleep as a metaphor for death. We can see from these passages that death is used figuratively in Scripture. It's not all that uncommon. So, let's consider Paul's words, "dead in sins". Maybe dead is a metaphor for their condition. What does it mean. What can the dead do? Nothing. So, someone who is dead in sins, is in a situation where they can do nothing about their sinful condition. What about his statement, 'she is dead while she lives'? The same thing. She can do nothing about her sinful condition. Likewise Jesus statement. He refers to people who are not following Him as the dead.

As much as death is used as a metaphor in Scripture, I think it's logical to accept this than to introduce into the text of Scripture a concept that's found nowhere in Scripture.

I believe you are confusing the physical body with the soul, they are not the same word or the same thing. The physical body is temporary, the living soul is eternal.

Mat 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: G5590 but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul G5590 and body in hell.

Also The breath of life is not the same as the Holy Spirit, not all things that breath and live are Holy.

And there is more than one spirit that enters into man besides God’s Holy Spirit. The spirit that causes death, is the spirit of the Devil.

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

 

[complete]

Several contentions about your application.

Fallen angels cannot be redeemed as they are reserved for judgment to the lake of fire.

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Revelation 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Hello @GodB4Us,

No mention of 'redemption' was made by me,

This being written in the N.T., then Jesus was not preaching to "angels" in that prison, but to the Old Testament saints which means Jesus's story of the rich man and the beggar Lazarus is a true story and the spirit of the prophet Samuel did come up from beneath the earth and Jesus did meet the thief on the cross that day in Paradise.

Now connect the dot with His help; He had to descend first... He has not risen yet and so for Him to meet the thief in His kingdom that day would mean Paradise is Abraham's bosom where He had said He would meet the thief that day where He had preached to those in prison, including the thief that day.

After His resurrection and after His ascension, we find out from the apostle John that Paradise was moved to Heaven as Jesus brought those in prison to God in Heaven as leading the captivity captive to their Home above as only Jesus can bring them to God the Father in Heaven.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

That is the whole point of Him descending to preach to those in prison, which is Paradise aka Abraham's bosom so that He may bring those that believe in Him to God when He has resurrected and ascended to Heaven above..

This is sheer speculation, and I am not interested in discussing the product of your own imagination. My dialogue with you is now at an end.

 

[GodB4Us]

Hello @GodB4Us,

No mention of 'redemption' was made by me,

What is the point to preach unto those spirits in prison then if you believe they are angels as in fallen angels for being in that prison?

This is sheer speculation, and I am not interested in discussing the product of your own imagination. My dialogue with you is now at an end.

Well, you did speculate that the spirits were angels in that prison. I had addressed your speculation like a hypothesis to prove or disprove and I believe with His help, I have disproven that hypothesis that those spirits were angels since there is no point to preach to them, right? But if the spirits be the O.T. saints, then it would make sense, at least to me, for Jesus going to that prison as known as Paradise because the O.T. saints had not received the promise yet until He came.

Hebrews 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Since they were not in Heaven after they had died because they need Jesus Christ to provide the way for them in leading them there, that would explain Paradise aka Abraham's bosom as being beneath the earth before His ascension whereas after His ascension, the apostle John now testified to its location in the third Heaven as Paul did too in 2 Corinthians 12:1-4. The O.T. saints are waiting for the firstfruits of the resurrection with those N.T. saints found abiding in Him as His disciples at the rapture event when God will judge His House first for why those saved believers not found abiding in Him as His disciples but are workers of iniquity, shall be left behind from joining the O.T. saints at the table in Heaven per Luke 13:24-30

But since you ended your dialogue with me, at least the response is there for others to read. May God cause the increase.

 

[Br. Bear]

Bind us together Lord
Bind us together Lord

with cords that....

 

[GodB4Us]

The body dies but the spirit of Christians are with the Lord in Heaven awaiting for their order of the resurrection whether as accepted by Him as vessels unto honor in His House to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb in Heaven or wait until after the great tribulation to be resurrected as vessels unto dishonor to serve the King of kings on earth in raising up the generations following them in the millennium reign of Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

So regardless of what order the spirits of saved believers of the N.T. are resurrected in, their spirits are with the Lord in Heaven after death per 2 Corinthians 5:8.

 

[complete]

Bind us together Lord
Bind us together Lord

with cords that....

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

We are a living soul. That means we have a physical body made alive by our spirit. When our physical body dies, our spirit lives on in consciousness. Why or why don't you believe this, and use scriptures to prove your beliefs.

@complete , @GodB4Us , @Br. Bear @StewardoftheMystery @Butch5

Death is separation. Separation for the source of life.

When you unplug your laptop and "separate" it from the electricity, the source of power it dies.
When you uproot a plant and "separate" it from the soil, its source of life, it dies.
When you take a fish out of water and "separate" it from the water, it's preferred way of getting oxygen from their gills, it dies.

Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body.
Spiritual death is separation of the spirit from God.

So those in hell are dead, because their spirit will be separated from God.
So in that sense, yes the Spirit dies because it can be separated from its source of life.

A dead laptop still exist, but doesn't have life,
A dead plant still exist, it just wilts and shrivels and has no life.
A dead fish, still exist, it just has no life in it.

There is no living to be done in hell,
There will be spirits existing in hell, but they won't be living because they will be separated from God the source of life.

 

[GodB4Us]

@complete , @GodB4Us , @Br. Bear @StewardoftheMystery @Butch5

Death is separation. Separation for the source of life.

When you you unplug your laptop and "separate" it from the electricity, the source of power it dies.
When you uproot a plant and "separate" it from the soil, its source of life, it dies.
When you take a fish out of water and "separate" it from the water, it's preferred way of getting oxygen from their gills, it dies.

Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body.
Spiritual death is separation of the spirit from God.

So those in hell are dead, because their spirit will be separated from God.
So in that sense, yes the Spirit dies because it can be separated from its source of life.

A dead laptop still exist, but doesn't have life,
A dead plant still exist, it just wilts and shrivels and has no life.
A dead fish, still exist, it just has no life in it.

There is no living to be done in hell,
There will be spirits existing in hell, but they won't be living because they will be separated from God the source of life.

I see the living spirit in hell as separated from God and all that is good since the spirit of the rich man was suffering and wanting someone from Abraham's bosom side to go back to the land of the living to warn his brothers of what awaits them after death so they will repent, which the point of Jesus telling this account would be moot if there was no real awareness in the afterlife for why the living that do not heed the Word of God to repent, will hardly heed the word from one back from the dead. So the after life in hell is real for why the necessity to repent is real but living sinners will not heed the words of one sent back from the dead any more than heeding the word of God to repent to avoid that place.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I see the living spirit in hell as separated from God and all that is good since the spirit of the rich man was suffering and wanting someone from Abraham's bosom side to go back to the land of the living to warn his brothers of what awaits them after death so they will repent, which the point of Jesus telling this account would be moot if there was no real awareness in the afterlife for why the living that do not heed the Word of God to repent, will hardly heed the word from one back from the dead. So the after life in hell is real for why the necessity to repent is real but living sinners will not heed the words of one sent back from the dead any more than heeding the word of God to repent to avoid that place.

Oh definitely I agree hell is real with consciousness. Indeed.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

I see the living spirit in hell as separated from God and all that is good since the spirit of the rich man was suffering and wanting someone from Abraham's bosom side to go back to the land of the living to warn his brothers of what awaits them after death so they will repent, which the point of Jesus telling this account would be moot if there was no real awareness in the afterlife for why the living that do not heed the Word of God to repent, will hardly heed the word from one back from the dead. So the after life in hell is real for why the necessity to repent is real but living sinners will not heed the words of one sent back from the dead any more than heeding the word of God to repent to avoid that place.

Indeed, what I was more trying to emphasize was life in the sense of being able to do what you were made to do.

When the laptop is separated from the power it can't run programs(software), what it was made to do because, it is dead;
When a plant is out of the soil it can't grow or bear fruit, it is dead;

and mankind is made for fellowship and relationship with God, and in hell separated from the Spirit of God, they are dead;
they cannot have a relationship with God in hell, they are dead to Him.
Dead (separated) to His love,
Dead (separated) to His peace,
Dead (separated) to His joy,
Dead (separated) to His grace.

 

[complete]

@complete , @GodB4Us , @Br. Bear @StewardoftheMystery @Butch5

Death is separation. Separation for the source of life.

When you unplug your laptop and "separate" it from the electricity, the source of power it dies.
When you uproot a plant and "separate" it from the soil, its source of life, it dies.
When you take a fish out of water and "separate" it from the water, it's preferred way of getting oxygen from their gills, it dies.

Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body.
Spiritual death is separation of the spirit from God.

So those in hell are dead, because their spirit will be separated from God.
So in that sense, yes the Spirit dies because it can be separated from its source of life.

A dead laptop still exist, but doesn't have life,
A dead plant still exist, it just wilts and shrivels and has no life.
A dead fish, still exist, it just has no life in it.

There is no living to be done in hell,
There will be spirits existing in hell, but they won't be living because they will be separated from God the source of life.

Hello @Jesus_is_LORD,

Thank you for including me, but I do not believe that what you and @GodB4Us have to say reflects the testimony of all Scripture on this subject.

I have entered responses previously, but the replies received show me that no amount of argument on my behalf will give you cause to reconsider. Only God's written Word has the power to do that.

Thank you
In Jesus Name
Chris

 

[Br. Bear]

@complete , @GodB4Us , @Br. Bear @StewardoftheMystery @Butch5

Death is separation. Separation for the source of life.

When you unplug your laptop and "separate" it from the electricity, the source of power it dies.
When you uproot a plant and "separate" it from the soil, its source of life, it dies.
When you take a fish out of water and "separate" it from the water, it's preferred way of getting oxygen from their gills, it dies.

Physical death is the separation of the soul from the body.
Spiritual death is separation of the spirit from God.

So those in hell are dead, because their spirit will be separated from God.
So in that sense, yes the Spirit dies because it can be separated from its source of life.

A dead laptop still exist, but doesn't have life,
A dead plant still exist, it just wilts and shrivels and has no life.
A dead fish, still exist, it just has no life in it.

There is no living to be done in hell,
There will be spirits existing in hell, but they won't be living because they will be separated from God the source of life.

Greetings Brother,

thank you for adding me here.

A couple of questions...

I note you did well in your pictures: laptop, plant and fish. ( i wont go into the exceptions... )

You wrote, "Spiritual death is separation of the spirit from God."
Can it be that 'spiritual death' as with physical death - let us say, "death of a man", is the separation of the Spirit from the man, which results in death?

Does the LORD hold the soul, the person, which is dear to Him, safely, until the restoration and Resurrection and judgement?
He forgets the sin (like a cloud or mist that vanishes away) but not the one He gave His Son for.

and, can you please expand on, "There will be spirits existing in hell" ?

This might be of help in this discussion?
If you can not do so to any justice, that is OK and I invite anyone to bring forth solid Scriptural 'expanding' on this question (but without too much warble and trying to sell a point, please)

Perhaps one trouble we face is the cultural background we have previously been brought up into, with the thinking and way of seeing and/or understanding, that can prevent us from seeing any further than that which we have grown to 'believe' ?


Also interested in this....

For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
and
For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.
Leviticus 17:11 + 14


Bless you ....><>

 

[*Lavender]

Hope you don't mind me posting.

With the spirit of a person.
When was that formed and how after Adam?
I take it that the spirit was formed at conception.

 

[GodB4Us]

Hope you don't mind me posting.

With the spirit of a person.
When was that formed and how after Adam?
I take it that the spirit was formed at conception.

Psalm 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

I do suspect that our spirts had existed as seen by the Lord before we were made in our mother's womb.

 

[complete]

Hope you don't mind me posting.

With the spirit of a person.
When was that formed and how after Adam?
I take it that the spirit was formed at conception.

Hello @Lavenderfields,

Interesting question.

Within the womb, Mum is the life support system for the child isn't she? The Baby is oxygenated via the Mother. It is thereby a living soul prior to birth, before ever breathing a breath of it's own.

That is my thinking anyway.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[*Lavender]

Psalm 139:13 For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.
14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
17 How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!

I do suspect that our spirts had existed as seen by the Lord before we were made in our mother's womb.

Thank you @GodB4Us for the psalm 139, how God perceives us inside the womb.

There is information in the bible.
Regarding Jeremiah and John the Baptist.

Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Jeremiah 1:5

For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. Luke 1:15
For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy. Luke 1:44

I think though with Jeremiah , God forknew him through His complete omniscent foreknowledge.

 

[*Lavender]

Hello @Lavenderfields,

Interesting question.

Within the womb, Mum is the life support system for the child isn't she? The Baby is oxygenated via the Mother. It is thereby a living soul prior to birth, before ever breathing a breath of it's own.

That is my thinking anyway.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thank you @complete
Yes, the air oxygenates us outside of the womb and the baby is oxygenated via the mother,inside the womb.
I find this interesting because we are animated through the breath of life, from God.
As well as the living creatures, described in Genesis 7:14-15 regarding Noah's ark.
They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

You wrote, "Spiritual death is separation of the spirit from God."
Can it be that 'spiritual death' as with physical death - let us say, "death of a man", is the separation of the Spirit from the man, which results in death?

Yes.

 

[Jesus_is_LORD]

Does the LORD hold the soul, the person, which is dear to Him, safely, until the restoration and Resurrection and judgement?
He forgets the sin (like a cloud or mist that vanishes away) but not the one He gave His Son for.

Yes, our Lord holds us securely