Do Our Spirits Die?

[Curtis]

If "breath" is "spirit" how would it sound in these verses?

1. His breath and his breath (Job 34:14)

2. His breath was troubled (Gen 41:8)

3. Woman has a familiar breath (Lev 20:27; 1Sa 28:7)

4. Hardened his breath (Deu 2:30)

5. I am a woman of sorrowful breath (1Sa 1:15).

6. Sad breath (1Ki 21:5)

7. Lying breath (1Ki 22:21-24)

8. Contrite breath (Psa 34:18)

9. Haughty breath (Pro 16:18)

10. Humble breath (Pro 16:19)

11. Wounded breath (Pro 18:14)

12. Vexed breath (Ecc 1:14)

13. Erred in breath (Isa 29:24)

14. Worship the Father in breath (Joh 4:23)

15. Sadducees did not believe in breath (Act 23:8-9)

16. Renewed in the breath of your mind (Eph 4:23)

17. Your whole breath and breath (1Th 5:23)

18. Dividing asunder breath and breath (Heb 4:12)

19. Believe not every breath (1Jn 4:1-6)

20. His breath clave to Dinah (Gen 34:3)

21. Breath in hell (Psa 16:10)

22. Converting the breath (Psa 19:7)

23. Leanness of breath (Psa 106:15)

24. Afflict breath (Isa 58:5)

25. Not able to kill breath (Mat 10:28)

26. Say to my breath, Breath you have much goods (Luk 12:19)

27. Saw the breaths under the altar (Rev 6:9-11)

28. Saw the breaths of them that were beheaded (Rev 20:4)

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

For all those who do not believe the soul lives on after the death of the body, then try explain how Samuel was able to speak to Saul after he was physically dead.

Samuel 28:3-15​

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King James Version​

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3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had lamented him, and buried him in Ramah, even in his own city. And Saul had put away those that had familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land.
4 And the Philistines gathered themselves together, and came and pitched in Shunem: and Saul gathered all Israel together, and they pitched in Gilboa.
5 And when Saul saw the host of the Philistines, he was afraid, and his heart greatly trembled.
6 And when Saul enquired of the Lord, the Lordanswered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other raiment, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night: and he said, I pray thee, divine unto me by the familiar spirit, and bring me him up, whom I shall name unto thee.
9 And the woman said unto him, Behold, thou knowest what Saul hath done, how he hath cut off those that have familiar spirits, and the wizards, out of the land: wherefore then layest thou a snare for my life, to cause me to die?
10 And Saul sware to her by the Lord, saying, As the Lord liveth, there shall no punishment happen to thee for this thing.
11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.
12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul.
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.”

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Or what about Moses who was told he would “sleep” with his fathers…..

Deuteronomy 31:16
And the Lord said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a ******* after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

But yet we see Moses with Elijah BEFORE the resurrection of Jesus.

Mark 9:4
And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Clearly Moses was still alive.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

And what about Abraham, and Lazarus, and the rich man?

Luke 16:22-26​

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King James Version​

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22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.”

Clearly their souls were still alive, and were able to speak, just as the blood of Abel was able to speak after he was dead in the body.

 

[complete]

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

All born again believers died with Christ on his cross. The only reason our physical bodies are still alive is because the same Spirit that raised up Jesus from the dead is the same Spirit that is keeping us alive.

Hello @Curtis,

Forgive me, but are you denying the need for resurrection?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

Act 7:59 As they stoned him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” (NLT)

'Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it.'
(Ecc 12:7)

'And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, He said,
Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit:
and having said thus, He gave up the ghost.'
(Luk 23:46)

And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying,
Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice,
Lord, lay not this sin to their charge.
And when he had said this, he fell asleep.'
(Act 7:59-60)

 

[complete]

We are a living soul. That means we have a physical body made alive by our spirit. When our physical body dies, our spirit lives on in consciousness. Why or why don't you believe this, and use scriptures to prove your beliefs.

Subject heading:- Do our spirits die?

'Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it'.
(Ecc 12:7)

 

[Curtis]

Hello @Curtis,

Forgive me, but are you denying the need for resurrection?

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

What exactly is the Body of Christ waiting for?

Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

We are waiting to know the redemption of our bodies. We are NOT waiting for the resurrection of our spirit because we have already been raised with Christ and are right now sitting in Heavenly places in Christ.

The resurrection of the "dead" is the resurrection of the body. The word "dead" means corpse which means body.

 

[complete]

What exactly is the Body of Christ waiting for?

Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.

We are waiting to know the redemption of our bodies. We are NOT waiting for the resurrection of our spirit because we have already been raised with Christ and are right now sitting in Heavenly places in Christ.

The resurrection of the "dead" is the resurrection of the body. The word "dead" means corpse which means body.

Hello @Curtis,

Thank you for clarifying your position on this.

Praise God! It's wonderful to see someone actually put this wonderful truth into print here on the forum.

' But God, who is rich in mercy, for His great love wherewith He loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, ( by grace ye are saved )
And hath raised us up together,
and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
That in the ages to come He might shew the exceeding riches of His grace
in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.'
(Eph 2:4-7)

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[Curtis]

Spirits never cease to exist, but they can die. The scripture describes a person as being dead yet physically alive when they were once "darkness"

Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

When a person goes from being darkness to being light they go from being dead to life eternal.

Angels are "spirits" that will never cease to exist, which is why the lake of fire is their eternal abode forever.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Most people think of death as physical, but there is also a spiritual death. In the Genesis account God told Adam that in the day he ate from the tree of knowledge that he would surely die. But the day Adam sinned against Gods command, he did not physically die, so what death was God talking about?

God was talking about the spiritual death that takes place when we sin. Being separated from Gods presence is also a part of this spiritual death. We see this in Adam, and also in Cain, who after killing his brother was cast out of Gods presence, and marked.

God said in Isaiah 59:2

2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.​

Paul said in Col 2:13 and Ephesians 2:1that we were dead in our sins. It is written in Ezekiel 18:20 that the soul that sins it shall die. Paul also said in 1Tim.5:6 that the woman who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives.

So to God you are dead spiritually while you are yet alive in the body because of sin. Just as Jesus said in Matthew 8:23 to let the dead bury their dead.

It is also written that to be carnally minded is death. So the issue of sin must be dealt with so that we can be reconciled back to the presence of God.

God said in Ezekiel 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

We know we cannot make ourselves a new heart and a new spirit, but God can. Which is why God sent His Son Jesus Christ to reconcile us back to God through His sacrifice on the cross.
And through Christ we have the forgiveness of past sins, and we are also empowered by Him to overcome future sin by spiritual rebirth.

When this spiritual rebirth happens we pass from Death unto Life. Jesus said in John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

When we get victory over the mark of sin by Faith in Jesus Christ, we also get victory over the name, which is Death.

 

[Butch5]

@Butch5

Greetings,



Yes, even a small study can reap some insights and challenge traditional thinking.
As in all things, commit it to the Lord in sincerity and He will guide and lead... our part is to follow.

Hi Br. Bear,

I agree. I think one of the problems is that many don't know where to begin. It's a bit overwhelming and it's been my experience that churches don't teach it. People go to commentaries but they're often wrong also. I think the biggest problem is the presuppositions we bring to the text. We're taught what the Bible "teaches" long before we begin our own deep studies, so our biases have already been set.

Was the 'old' way of seeing things... or, did the 'old' way of seeing things ever accommodate Spirit? From the little I know, the idea or understanding of Spirit was fairly normal. Completely throwing it out might also be a mistake, done perhaps with innocence but a mistake nonetheless?

I only suggest throwing it out because it causes people to import an idea into the Bible that the Bible doesn't teach. It causes people to see a figure of speech as a literal definition. Suppose I said, the quarterback really has team spirit. No one would think I was saying he has a team ghost. Even though a ghost is the primary thought when one mentions spirit. People realize it's a figure of speech. But, when they see spirit in Scripture they don't know it's a figure of speech and take it literally.

I agree that the several different words used for the same original word is somewhat potentially disorientating. When we know the meaning and the words actually used, we can see and read with that in mind. [some folk read straight Hebrew or Greek but the average man is not so well 'learned', nor has to be].
I found Robert Young's Analytical Concordance quite helpful to see the different Greek or Hebrew used for each Bible word.

I think it keeps the reader from reader from really grasping the meaning of the words. I'm glad you got a good resource. It's hard as some of them are so expensive. I know a lot of work goes into them, but, if they don't make them available to the average person it doesn't help much.

You mentioned both Breath and Wind. Is it up to us to choose which one is better or more appropriate to 'use'? Do the ways in which the word is used or written, either alone or in conjunction with other words and themes, etc, change the word we need to grasp?

The primary meaning is wind. Wind is essentially moving air. By extension breath is moving and so the words are also translated breath. I mentioned that Jesus gives a good definition of pnuema in John 3. However, I think we find another interesting tidbit from Luke.

And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
(Lk. 1:35 KJV)

Luke equates the Holy (Wind, Breath) Spirit with the power of the Highest. If the wind of God is His power it explains a lot. We see in Scripture statements about God destroying things with the wind or breath of His nostrils, ect. That would also help us define these words, neshamah, ruach, noe, and pnuema. Back in Jesus day the only way to move a ship was to row or sail. So the wind was seen as a source of power. Again, Luke equates the Holy Wind with the power of God.

I think that perhaps we can be too clinical and sterile in our approach and lose the ability to see past literal translation to what the Lord would have conveyed to us in the Scripture?
As always, everything has to line up with everything else and the Author is the best and only source for 'revelation' and Truth.

I guess that's possible. But, that's not what I'm doing. I'm saying that when the words are translated spirit is figurative. I acknowledge figures of speech. The prolbem I believe is importing the literal definition of an English word into a Greek or Hebrew that is being used in a figurative way.

Regarding your 'for example'.
If you use Wind, why then 'windy'? Is that a definite or something that sounds right? There is a big difference,as you probably realise.
I would prefer Breath, if that was an option? How about if it read "in the Spirit of the day" instead of "in the cool"?
Regarding Breath, is that inhale and exhale or both? Or merely because it/He is?

I think either works as we understand the meaning of the word. I look at the context and see which is best. The biggest problem is the word spirit , just because of that figurative use and people not know it.

I fully appreciate what you are sharing and where you are coming from and trying to help others to at least consider, Brother. My scrutiny is for all to benefit from, Lord be willing.


Bless you ....><>

Thank you sir!

 

[Butch5]

Greetings @Butch5



Perhaps, Life and Breath would read better?


Bless you ....><>

I believe so.

 

[Butch5]

Act 7:59 As they stoned him, Stephen prayed, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” (NLT)

Couldn't we read that as, Lord Jesus, receive my breath? Isn't that what happens when one dies?

 

[Butch5]

Most people think of death as physical, but there is also a spiritual death. In the Genesis account God told Adam that in the day he ate from the tree of knowledge that he would surely die. But the day Adam sinned against Gods command, he did not physically die, so what death was God talking about?

God was talking about the spiritual death that takes place when we sin. Being separated from Gods presence is also a part of this spiritual death. We see this in Adam, and also in Cain, who after killing his brother was cast out of Gods presence, and marked.

God said in Isaiah 59:2

2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.​

Paul said in Col 2:13 and Ephesians 2:1that we were dead in our sins. It is written in Ezekiel 18:20 that the soul that sins it shall die. Paul also said in 1Tim.5:6 that the woman who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives.

So to God you are dead spiritually while you are yet alive in the body because of sin. Just as Jesus said in Matthew 8:23 to let the dead bury their dead.

It is also written that to be carnally minded is death. So the issue of sin must be dealt with so that we can be reconciled back to the presence of God.

God said in Ezekiel 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

We know we cannot make ourselves a new heart and a new spirit, but God can. Which is why God sent His Son Jesus Christ to reconcile us back to God through His sacrifice on the cross.
And through Christ we have the forgiveness of past sins, and we are also empowered by Him to overcome future sin by spiritual rebirth.

When this spiritual rebirth happens we pass from Death unto Life. Jesus said in John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

When we get victory over the mark of sin by Faith in Jesus Christ, we also get victory over the name, which is Death.

But we don't find the term "spiritual death" anywhere in Scripture. Isn't it possible that death is being used as a metaphor is several of these places?

God told Adam that in the day he ate from the tree of knowledge he would die. Adam didn't die within 24 hours. People then assume that this meant some other kind of death. But did it?

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return (Gen. 3:1 KJV)

Here in Genesis 3 God explains the death He was talking about. It's physical death. Adam returning to the dust of the earth. But that didn't happen within 24. So, maybe instead of changing out understanding of death, we should consider our understanding of day. Both the Greek and Hebrew words can mean more than just a 24 hour period. Consider David's words.

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. (Ps. 90:4 KJV)

David says that a thousand years are as yesterday, a day. What about Peter. He alludes to this passage and gives more light.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 Pet. 3:8 KJV)

Peter says a with the Lord is as a thousand years. What if God meant a thousand yours as the day in which Adam would die? How long did Adam live? He lived 930 years, just short of a day. This is how both the Jews and the early Christians also understood that passage in Genesis.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

But we don't find the term "spiritual death" anywhere in Scripture. Isn't it possible that death is being used as a metaphor is several of these places?

God told Adam that in the day he ate from the tree of knowledge he would die. Adam didn't die within 24 hours. People then assume that this meant some other kind of death. But did it?

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return (Gen. 3:1 KJV)

Here in Genesis 3 God explains the death He was talking about. It's physical death. Adam returning to the dust of the earth. But that didn't happen within 24. So, maybe instead of changing out understanding of death, we should consider our understanding of day. Both the Greek and Hebrew words can mean more than just a 24 hour period. Consider David's words.

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. (Ps. 90:4 KJV)

David says that a thousand years are as yesterday, a day. What about Peter. He alludes to this passage and gives more light.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 Pet. 3:8 KJV)

Peter says a with the Lord is as a thousand years. What if God meant a thousand yours as the day in which Adam would die? How long did Adam live? He lived 930 years, just short of a day. This is how both the Jews and the early Christians also understood that passage in Genesis.

If the death spoken of is not physical, then what would you call it? I call it a spiritual death because those who sin are spiritually dead while they are yet still physically alive in the body.

Paul said in Col 2:13 and Ephesians 2:1that we were dead in our sins. It is written in Ezekiel 18:20 that the soul that sins it shall die. Paul also said in 1Tim.5:6 that the woman who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives.

So to God you are dead spiritually while you are yet alive in the body because of sin. Just as Jesus said in Matthew 8:23 to let the dead bury their dead.

 

[Br. Bear]

Ye that are spiritual.... ?

For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 7:14

Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
Galatians 6:1

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Romans 8:6

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Ephesians 6:12

Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor.
1Samuel 28:7

Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual, but as worldly--as infants in Christ.
1Corinthians 3:1

 

[GodB4Us]

'Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was:
and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it.'
(Ecc 12:7)

'And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, He said,
Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit:
and having said thus, He gave up the ghost.'
(Luk 23:46)

And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying,
Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice,
Lord, lay not this sin to their charge.
And when he had said this, he fell asleep.'
(Act 7:59-60)

The fact that Jesus descended by His own spirit/ghost to the prison to preach unto them in Abraham's bosom aka Paradise, should testify to an awareness and thus an existence in the after life.

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient,

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

 

[complete]

The fact that Jesus descended by His own spirit/ghost to the prison to preach unto them in Abraham's bosom aka Paradise, should testify to an awareness and thus an existence in the after life.

Ephesians 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient,

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

'For Christ also hath once suffered for sins,
the Just for the unjust,
that He might bring us to God,
being put to death in the flesh,
but quickened by the Spirit:
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Which sometime were disobedient,
when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah,
while the ark was a preparing,
wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.'
(1 Peter 3:18-20)

Hello @GodB4Us,

Our Lord was quickened by the Spirit: 'By Which,' also, 'He went and preached unto the spirits (angels) in prison ... '. See Luke 4:1.

* Abraham's bosom is not mentioned here, and it does not mean 'paradise'. With respect you are introducing your own understanding into the text, to the detriment of the truth it expresses. Our Lord went, 'by the Spirit,' to preach to the angels that, 'left their first estate,' in the time of Noah.

'And the angels which kept not their first estate,
but left their own habitation,
He hath reserved in everlasting chains
under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.'
(Jud 1:6)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Butch5]

If the death spoken of is not physical, then what would you call it? I call it a spiritual death because those who sin are spiritually dead while they are yet still physically alive in the body.

Paul said in Col 2:13 and Ephesians 2:1that we were dead in our sins. It is written in Ezekiel 18:20 that the soul that sins it shall die. Paul also said in 1Tim.5:6 that the woman who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives.

So to God you are dead spiritually while you are yet alive in the body because of sin. Just as Jesus said in Matthew 8:23 to let the dead bury their dead.

What if we consider another option? I've not found anything at all in Scripture that speaks of "spiritual death". I don't even see how that would be possible. Genesis 2:7 shows us that the spirit in man is God's spirit. God is immortal, thus his spirit or breath is immortal and cannot die. We don't see any other breath or spirit put into man, save the Holy Spirit which definitely is not man.

However, Paul does frequently use death in a metaphorical sense. Consider his words,

I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. (1 Cor. 15:31 KJV)

Here Paul said he dies daily. I don't think anyone would argue that Paul literally died and was resurrected every day. I don't think anyone would argue that he died and became alive "spiritually" everyday. I think it's pretty clear that he is speaking figuratively. Also consider this,

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. (Rom. 7:9 KJV)

Here Paul says he was alive without the law but when the law came he died. He has several metaphors here. The law existed before Paul was born. So, he did not exist when the law came literally to Moses. So what does he mean by the statement, "when the commandment came"? I would submit that the statement is a metaphor for Paul understanding the law. He also says he was alive without the law. In the literal sense he was alive with and without the law. He said when the law came he died. Did Paul literally die when he understood the law. No. Or, is that a way of saying he became guilty under the law when he understood it? Consider Jesus' words.

He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.
(Matt. 9:24 KJV)

Here the girl was literally dead. Yet, Jesus uses sleep as a metaphor for death. We can see from these passages that death is used figuratively in Scripture. It's not all that uncommon. So, let's consider Paul's words, "dead in sins". Maybe dead is a metaphor for their condition. What does it mean. What can the dead do? Nothing. So, someone who is dead in sins, is in a situation where they can do nothing about their sinful condition. What about his statement, 'she is dead while she lives'? The same thing. She can do nothing about her sinful condition. Likewise Jesus statement. He refers to people who are not following Him as the dead.

As much as death is used as a metaphor in Scripture, I think it's logical to accept this than to introduce into the text of Scripture a concept that's found nowhere in Scripture.