Can You Loose Your Salvation?

[Br. Bear]

can without a doubt call Jesus Lord.

…"The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.
"And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD Will be delivered; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem There will be those who escape, as the LORD has said, Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls. Joel 2:31-32

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13

If you read most versions you will see that in Romans 10:13 it is rendered either 'shall be' or 'will be'... saved.
Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, and in which you stand firm. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 1Corinthians 15:1-2
Take out the two 'I's and read it again. Because the Apostle Paul did not actually preach this directly to you but the point is still exactly the same.

The Apostle Paul then goes on to say/write If our hope in Christ is for this life alone, we are to be pitied more than all men. v.19

this is the same Apostle Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Saviour and of Christ Jesus our hope, (from 1Timothy 1:1)

Hebrews 9:28
so also Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many; and He will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who eagerly await Him.

Jude 1:21
keep yourselves in the love of God as you await the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you eternal life.

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
Titus 2:11-15


Bless you ... Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost. Romans 15:13

 

[Born Again 2004]

I agree with this. You basically just repeating what I said to you above, lol. Which makes me wonder how you don't believe in OSAS? God knows the heart. OSAS is true from God's perspective. It can be from ours if we pass a session of harsh self judgment and can without a doubt call Jesus Lord.

With out having scripture that spells this out specifically but from reading the entire Bible and just knowing in my heart, when you die your physical death, you come before Jesus for judgement and as he always done by separating sheep from goats, wheat from the chaff, He will judge you by whether He is in you or He is not in you. The sheep have God in them and go to his right...the goats do not have God in them and go to his left!......you know the rest!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Those enlightened' is referring to all who have heard the gospel. Not all who hear are saved. Those who have already heard and not been saved are highly unlikely to want to hear again. Th

Hi KJ,
I hope all is going well with you these days.

I quoted the above because this is the area where we see things differently.

For me I understand the meaning of the words used differently.
For me and this is just what I have come to believe and am only sharing with you on how I believe .

To me KJ you are using the words Taste and Partake etc in a modern day use or understanding.
We use many words differently now a days then what they meant at the time they were recorded.

Again this is where we see things differently.
Any way I sure am blessed knowing you are willing to fellowship without making silly arguments. I totally Respect that Brother.
Have a wonderfully blessed day
Blessings
W4F

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

To me KJ you are using the words Taste and Partake etc in a modern day use or understanding.
We use many words differently now a days then what they meant at the time they were recorded.

Excuse me for interrupting and also if i have overlooked where you may have already expanded on this @Wired 4 Fishen (if so, could you please point me to the post?) but having said/written what you have, it would be dandy and helpful if you could expand on this.
I am not taking sides about this but am only thinking that if you have not already explained a bit more about the modern day use of these two terms, it would be very help for everyone, including guests, to see the validity in what you have written. I am not disputing you so please understand that this is simply to request a bit more info. Otherwise it is a blank or empty statement and given the importance of the topic you are referring to, it only make sense to shed as much light as possible.


Thank you and bless you ....><>

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Greetings,



Excuse me for interrupting and also if i have overlooked where you may have already expanded on this @Wired 4 Fishen (if so, could you please point me to the post?) but having said/written what you have, it would be dandy and helpful if you could expand on this.
I am not taking sides about this but am only thinking that if you have not already explained a bit more about the modern day use of these two terms, it would be very help for everyone, including guests, to see the validity in what you have written. I am not disputing you so please understand that this is simply to request a bit more info. Otherwise it is a blank or empty statement and given the importance of the topic you are referring to, it only make sense to shed as much light as possible.


Thank you and bless you ....><>

Post 119 Can You Loose Your Salvation?
Point 4.5.6 in green
As for the words and meanings that will have to wait. I don't have the info at hand other then what i retained so it will take a little time to dig up text examples

Blessings

 

[Br. Bear]

Thank you, Sir ....><>

 

[B-A-C]

par·take
pärˈtāk/
verbformal
verb: partake; 3rd person present: partakes; gerund or present participle: partaking; past tense: partook; past participle: partaken

1.
eat or drink (something).
"she had partaken of a cheese sandwich and a cup of coffee"
synonyms: consume, have, eat, drink, take, ingest, devour; More
informalwolf down, polish off, tuck into
"those averse to sushi can partake of the hot buffet"
antonyms: forgo, abstain from
2.
join in (an activity).
"visitors can partake in golfing or clay pigeon shooting"
synonyms: participate in, take part in, engage in, join in, enter into, get involved in, share in, contribute to, play a part in, have a hand in, sit in on
"only senior officers are allowed to partake in the negotiations"

Heb 6:4; For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5; and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6; and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

μέτοχος
metochos
met'-okh-os
From G3348; participant, that is, (as noun) a sharer; by implication an associate: - fellow, partaker, partner.
Total KJV occurrences: 6

........ ===== ....... =====

Heb 10:29; How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

1 Tim 4:1; But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

2 Pet 2:20; For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2 Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2 Pet 2:22; It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

John 6:66; As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
John 6:67; So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?"
John 6:68; Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

 

[Born Again 2004]

I am going to take a different approach to the original thread, the answer to "Can You Loose Your Salvation" t boils down to is God.

• I am not going to reference any scripture because it does no good because most everyone here has already developed an opinion and we differ on scripture too! Though I get some LIKES along the way I just get in a debate with someone who has opposite views on Sin, Salvation, OSAS, Falling Away....etc. . I am just as hard headed as they are and we just end up going in circles.
• Now back to God and I am sure I will get some opposition here as well! Ever since Adam and Eve introduced sin and physical death into the world...enter Cain and Abel. So, he had a problem ( not really a problem for him because he is perfect...a problem for us}. Of course he created this problem like everything else that was created and, with all things he had the perfect solution. Since he set the standards from the foundation, sin and spiritual death would abound and the devil would be allowed to prowl the earth and corrupt when he could.
• So what was the solution to sin, death and the Devil? So with God, only he could devise a perfect foolproof plan that would save mankind and defeat the Devil. ENTER Jesus!
• Though the introduction of Jesus's Perfect Salvation was devised before the foundation, God had to develop man's knowledge of himself first and Jesus would come much later in Man's history. I could write about this for pages but very few would read, so I will come directly to the point why one can not loose their salvation:

God is sovereign, He is absolute perfection and, in His perfection, he could / would only come up with a perfect plan to save His church and defeat Satan. His plan was to allow man a choice ( who ever calls upon he name of the Lord will be saved) and those who chose him, he would give a new heart and perspective who He was and what sin was by putting Himself into those believers. As this process of going from unbeliever to believer evolves, He is responsible FOR EVERYTHING. To do or allow man to participate at all would not work 100% of the time 24/7, as per his standard of perfection. He provided , in Jesus, the perfect blood sacrifice , one time forever and allowed his son to sit down next to him, signifying the finality of the cross...Jesus would never die again for sin because it was totally defeated by him. When you are saved the first time, there remains no other sacrifices for you. If you could "fall away" then you would be lost for ever and in God's perfection that does not fit into his plan. Once truly "Born Again" and saved, his perfect plan and Bible has no such hing as being " Unborn" not physical or spiritual! THIS IS WHY NO ONE CAN NOT LOSE THEIR SALVATION!

 

[KingJ]

1. Heb 6:4; For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5; and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6; and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

2. Heb 10:29; How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

3. Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

4. 1 Tim 4:1; But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

2 Pet 2:20; For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2 Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2 Pet 2:22; It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

5. John 6:66; As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.
John 6:67; So Jesus said to the twelve, "You do not want to go away also, do you?"
John 6:68; Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

1. Being a 'partaker of the Holy Spirit' is still not accepting Jesus. Many cry and are thrown to the floor at meetings when the power and conviction of the Holy Spirit hit them. This just means they experienced the Holy Spirit. Matt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

2. This is the most convincing verse you have presented here and is going to result in a very interesting study indeed imho. The bolded 'sanctified'. The second part 'insulting the Spirit of grace', is not an issue for me, as scripture is clear that we do this when we reject Jesus. Back to the 'sanctified'. It reminds me of this scripture 1 Cor 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

The unbelieving husband and wife are not saved believers. Yet they have been sanctified. I am certain they have also felt the presence of the Holy Spirit and heard the gospel. It seems they are sanctified because they choose to stay with the believer. Thus indirectly accepting Jesus. This would be the same case for those unsaved in the church, who choose to stay under the Christian teaching. When they leave, they lose their sanctification. They were not saved to begin with and they are now no longer sanctified.

3 & 4. These verses I know all too well. I raise it plenty in discussions with atheists. How can we ever believe for a while if we are truly saved Matt 16:24 type Christians. Remember the young rich man in Mark 10:17-31. Asking what he must do to inherit the kingdom of God. Jesus said he must sell all he had. Do you think he would ever forget that? He would forget and fall if all he aspired to was obeying the laws as he said he was doing. He would not forget the sacrifice of selling all he had. Likewise a Christian cannot forget the first day they got saved. The day God judged them and then chose to reveal Jesus. Giving absolute belief and faith in Jesus. Temptations, plagues in the last days come as a sign and warning to all. It is God showing us where our allegiance truly lies. He wants us to know it and do something about it.

5. Not sure why you quoting these verses. All I know is that Peter needed and received a revelation from God of who Jesus was in Matt 16:16-17. God judged Him and did not hold the revelation of Jesus back. We see that God did not make a mistake in revealing Jesus to Peter. As Peter, even though he denied Jesus, did repent sincerely and died a martyr. God would not have given this revelation to Judas for example.

Every true Christian has received a revelation of Jesus because their repentance from sin has been at the required depth of intent. On par with the young rich man selling all he had, for example.

 

[KingJ]

I am going to take a different approach to the original thread, the answer to "Can You Loose Your Salvation" t boils down to is God.

• I am not going to reference any scripture because it does no good because most everyone here has already developed an opinion and we differ on scripture too! Though I get some LIKES along the way I just get in a debate with someone who has opposite views on Sin, Salvation, OSAS, Falling Away....etc. . I am just as hard headed as they are and we just end up going in circles.
• Now back to God and I am sure I will get some opposition here as well! Ever since Adam and Eve introduced sin and physical death into the world...enter Cain and Abel. So, he had a problem ( not really a problem for him because he is perfect...a problem for us}. Of course he created this problem like everything else that was created and, with all things he had the perfect solution. Since he set the standards from the foundation, sin and spiritual death would abound and the devil would be allowed to prowl the earth and corrupt when he could.
• So what was the solution to sin, death and the Devil? So with God, only he could devise a perfect foolproof plan that would save mankind and defeat the Devil. ENTER Jesus!
• Though the introduction of Jesus's Perfect Salvation was devised before the foundation, God had to develop man's knowledge of himself first and Jesus would come much later in Man's history. I could write about this for pages but very few would read, so I will come directly to the point why one can not loose their salvation:

God is sovereign, He is absolute perfection and, in His perfection, he could / would only come up with a perfect plan to save His church and defeat Satan. His plan was to allow man a choice ( who ever calls upon he name of the Lord will be saved) and those who chose him, he would give a new heart and perspective who He was and what sin was by putting Himself into those believers. As this process of going from unbeliever to believer evolves, He is responsible FOR EVERYTHING. To do or allow man to participate at all would not work 100% of the time 24/7, as per his standard of perfection. He provided , in Jesus, the perfect blood sacrifice , one time forever and allowed his son to sit down next to him, signifying the finality of the cross...Jesus would never die again for sin because it was totally defeated by him. When you are saved the first time, there remains no other sacrifices for you. If you could "fall away" then you would be lost for ever and in God's perfection that does not fit into his plan. Once truly "Born Again" and saved, his perfect plan and Bible has no such hing as being " Unborn" not physical or spiritual! THIS IS WHY NO ONE CAN NOT LOSE THEIR SALVATION!

Excellent. I just want to add to your thoughts.

God placed the devil with Adam and Eve. God knew mankind sinning was inevitable, that is why he placed Adam and Even on earth. That is why lions with big teeth able to eat lambs, lay with lambs before sin. This is why Jesus was planned before the foundations of the earth.

My underlying argument for OSAS is that God does not make mistakes. He removed the devil from heaven. Jesus says he has been sinning from the beginning. He has never wanted to truly repent. IE God made no mistake in removing him from heaven. Likewise God will certainly make no mistake in grafting us into heaven / His family through adoption as sons and daughters by the blood of Jesus. We just have to grasp what it takes to get saved! We do need to judge ourselves, so no damage to a true Christian in hearing anti OSAS teaching. Paul's preaching is full of warnings as he wanted to make it clear to the congregation of saved and unsaved people on what the fruits of a truly saved person are.