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Completely agree with this. We make mistakes, God does not.
Can You Loose Your Salvation?
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We cannot judge mans heart Jer 17:9-12. Only God can. God does not make mistakes, we do. The real question we should be pondering is, should people divorce? Richer or poorer, sickness and health, until death do us part = it is ok to divorce? God is faithful and will never leave nor forsake those who likewise sunk to a depth of intent and lay their lives down for Him. So the million dollar question is: Have we laid our lives down for God?
We are able to grasp and know for ourselves right now if you we done that. That is a privilege we have in having the Holy Spirit with us. He can reveal Jesus to us and make us grasp Him as our Lord and best friend.
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- No he said " My grace is sufficient"! 2 Corinthians 12:9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.
- What ? Paul wanted God to take away grace? Paul speaks of a “thorn in the flesh” in 2 Corinthians 12:7. He calls it “a messenger of Satan” that had a purpose of “torment.” ....How do you come up with:" Paul asked God to take it away grace" ?....Grace was the thorn in his flesh?
Loyal
LOL I did say that didn't I? Oops!! Once more....Grace is defined as 'The empowering PRESENCE of God which empowers us to do what God wants us to do' Paul asked God to take away the thorn...God said "My empowering PRESENCE is sufficient to do the job. God was telling Paul to get rid of the messenger of Satan and He would back Paul
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God said "My empowering PRESENCE is sufficient ..please show us where that is written!
Loyal
Did I not just say that it is the definition of grace?...Grace = Gods empowering PRESENCE?
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- So, I take it that you can not find these words in scripture. I can only speculate that these are therefore, your words.;
- I would say, that to most Christians I have encountered, their understanding, God does have / must have an "empowering presence in our lives but, these words do not come from a quote from the Bible.
- 2 Corinthians 12:9 But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.
- And though his presence is a part of grace, Grace has many aspects of Go's love for us, I do not believe that .Grace does not = Gods empowering PRESENCE alone. And that is not what is meant in the above scripture.
Loyal
Oh Really......Do tell.....LOL
Member
You took the words right out of my mouth! I agree. There are whole chapters and multiple verses that go together and connect! Hello! lol sorry, I was thinking the very same thing as I was reading this thread.
Member
Loyal
Exactly!!
We must walk away.
Loyal
Another definition on Grace.
God's overwhelming desire to treat people as if sin had never happened.
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Hebrews 10:26-31
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The LORD will judge his people." 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
No offense, I don't believe that the above verse says what you think it does!
- 26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left The first key here is "deliberate" sin or sinning on purpose. Do you ,being " Born Again", sin on purpose, of course not. The second key is, if you have indeed truly been " Born Again", then it is done because there remains no sacrifice. Romans 6:10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. You can't be saved, unsaved and saved a second time, because Jesus died once for sins and he is not going to do it again. You are either saved or haven't been saved in the first place.
- 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. You may have great knowledge of God/Bible but not saved yet ( this is the deference between a Head Christian and a Heart Christian) and die in this condition, all that remains is judgement and hell.
- Hebrews 13:5-6 5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you." 6 So we say with confidence, "The LORD is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can mere mortals do to me?" Once "Born Again", how do you fall away from a God like ours?
Member
Lets let The Bible Talk:-
2 Peter 2:20-22
Certainly if after escaping from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, their final state has become worse for them than the first.
21 It would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it to turn away from the holy commandment they had received. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.”
Gone back into Satan's world and left The Truth about Jesus.
The Metaphor of a "dog" and "sow" (pig) were unclean animals in the Jews so as peter is form a Jewish back ground he uses them to show that the Christian that 'turns away' and goes back to Satan's world is now become unclean and no longer fit for God to use, he/she is again defilied,' an outcast, gone back to serving Satan, thus useless unless he repents from his bad actions.
BT
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- Simple....these where never saved in the first place!!!
- According to many population sources, there are about 2 billion Christians in the world! Just like in any church you have true "Born Again" Christians and you have Christians in name only. Out of these 2 Billion Christians, many have not been "Born Again" and they remain in this condition it is very likely they can falter. fall away or otherwise leave the faith. If God has never been in you, you have no where to fall to....you can not leave or fall away from something that you have never been a part of in the first place!
- If you are truly Born Again, and God says he will never leave you or forsake you......where are you going to leave or fall away to that God is not still right there inside you?
Member
That does not seem right according as his letter is directed to the anointed (Christians) " HOLY" ones warning the to be faithful:-
2 Peter 3:11
Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion,
following that warning not to go back into the world"
BT
Member
So, those who overcome until the end? Right? So the Lord finishes what he started, right? Can you truly say that you have no sin? For truly, I know you are still working out your own Salvation with fear, and trembling before the Lord. Right? In your walk with our Lord, and Savior, brother/sister have you not had to cry out to him to remove a thorn from your side. It is a constant battle that does not end until the day you die, and until that day one must overcome, until the end, also that end could be if He comes tomorrow. His work will not return void, and He will finish the work He started in those that have been set aside before the foundations of the Earth. The Love you carry for your own, could never compare to the love that is carried in His heart for His own. It seems the only way to lose ones Salvation is by denying Christ. As long as one is confessing, and in Spirit, and in Truth seeking Him out one will not lose his or her Salvation. Love is Patient, suffers long, our God is awesome, and His prayer for all humanity is that all would be saved. Esau might have sold his inheritance for a morsel of soup, but I ask you why the grace of God abounded in his heart to forgive that which Jacob had done. God had still blessed Esau, to which he no longer sought out his twins blood.
Loyal
God said "He" would not leave.
Any Born again believer can at any time decide they are done with Christianity.
They can shun God and refuse to listen or give ear to God's beckoning.
However there will come the day when one has quenched the Holy Spirit to the point He will leave.
Then guess who fills that area?
It's the same thing as Final Destination.
God does not send people to hell.
People choose hell by REJECTING Christ.
Hebrews 6:4-6
4. For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened--those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit,
5. who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come--
6. and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.
By the time people get to this point their hearts are so hardened against the good things of God that they won't have anything to do with God or His Word.
However nothing is impossible to God AND IF they come to themselves and realize what they did and repent and turn back to God, well He will take them back.
Sad thing is, most never will come to their right mind.
God won't force anyone to stay.
God will reach out for awhile but won't force, it's all about the condition of the heart.
Remember. ... There is consequences for disobedience and rejecting Christ, especially after one once walked with Him.
Blessings
W4F
Member
I personally believe that you can lose your salvation. I'm not going to argue with anyone where it is written. The Lord has been impressing upon me lately that there are things NOT written in the Bible that are none the less true and are of God. Are you willing to tempt your salvation on whether the Bible is the complete work of God -- that if it's NOT written in the Bible it must not be true? I don't believe that for a moment. We keep going round-n-round about some of this stuff. Believe what you will -- I also am a post-tribber -- not pre, not mid (I heard this on a Youtube video the other day -- if there was a pretrib rapture, why would it matter if we took the number of the beast -- if we weren't going to be here anyway?). But I digress!
Perhaps I'm a bit more, ummm, progressive, perhaps bleeding edge? I don't know. Judge me if you wish. I really don't care. I only care about what the Lord thinks of me. Regardless, I FIRMLY believe that you can lose your salvation. I believe that many think that because they were saved when they were at Camp when they were 17 that at 34 they can run amok and fornicate with whomever they choose, commit murder or use drugs and expect to go to Heaven when their time is up. I believe that they will be sorely wrong. I don't know if any of you listen to any current day prophets and the like -- ones that have visited hell for a time (Bill Wiese, Mary K. Baxter among others -- Mary is supposed to be at my church in a month or so -- should be interesting) -- regardless, most of these people who've visited hell find that there are tons of people that are milling about thinking that they're in heaven waiting for judgement and having zero clue that they're in hell. Are you willing to take the chance?
Perhaps I'm a bit more, ummm, progressive, perhaps bleeding edge? I don't know. Judge me if you wish. I really don't care. I only care about what the Lord thinks of me. Regardless, I FIRMLY believe that you can lose your salvation. I believe that many think that because they were saved when they were at Camp when they were 17 that at 34 they can run amok and fornicate with whomever they choose, commit murder or use drugs and expect to go to Heaven when their time is up. I believe that they will be sorely wrong. I don't know if any of you listen to any current day prophets and the like -- ones that have visited hell for a time (Bill Wiese, Mary K. Baxter among others -- Mary is supposed to be at my church in a month or so -- should be interesting) -- regardless, most of these people who've visited hell find that there are tons of people that are milling about thinking that they're in heaven waiting for judgement and having zero clue that they're in hell. Are you willing to take the chance?
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- O.K., you have your interpretation and I have mine We will have to agree to disagree. For my perspective and what has happened to me, that, the very scripture you use to support your interpretation, I say it interprets mine.
- With the SAME Lord and Savior that we both love but, you say you see circumstances where, once saved and him living in you, that you could eventually leave him, he would leave you and you fall away to a point of total rejection from where you first were.
- What exactly is it, what would have to happen in your life that would cause you to leave God?
- From my perspective, these people, as you put it, could never force God out.
This is false:
- God put your name in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation, based on your acceptance of him. I don't see God putting you in, taking you out and then putting you in again!
- You do not repent, go into salvation as God enters you and, then on a whelm go out of salvation and God leaves you. Essentially what you are saying is that YOU can do this as much as you want and future salvation is always there.
- Jesus died for your sins....he died ONCE for all and he is not going to die again and provide you salvation as often as you want!