Can You Loose Your Salvation?

[KingJ]

Lets let The Bible Talk:-

2 Peter 2:20-22
Certainly if after escaping from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, their final state has become worse for them than the first.
21 It would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it to turn away from the holy commandment they had received. 22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.”

Gone back into Satan's world and left The Truth about Jesus.

The Metaphor of a "dog" and "sow" (pig) were unclean animals in the Jews so as peter is form a Jewish back ground he uses them to show that the Christian that 'turns away' and goes back to Satan's world is now become unclean and no longer fit for God to use, he/she is again defilied,' an outcast, gone back to serving Satan, thus useless unless he repents from his bad actions.
BT

Paul had to speak this way so as to not discriminate against anyone in church attendance. He spoke to all as though they were saved. But we see from 1 Cor 5 and 6 that he makes it clear to them / all of us that nobody in a mortal type sin must be confident of their salvation.

I don't like to argue this subject as I prefer us teaching the importance of examining ourselves daily. Mankind 101 = we assume the best of ourselves. But in all truthfulness it is simply insanity to suggest God can make the mistake of washing someone clean only to give them back to satan. We make mistakes, God does not. Once God has washed someone clean, they are clean indeed.

If you persist, please answer this question. Knowing that partiality is evil and that Peter grasped as we should that God is impartial Acts 10:34. So, how is God impartial with the criminal next to Jesus on the cross? One decision and a few hours on earth, then on to eternal bliss. When us, who get saved are used by God to further His kingdom at our risk of eternal damnation. Makes no sense. If you or anyone truly believed you can lose your salvation, you should desire to go and be a martyr for God asap.

 

[KingJ]

God said "He" would not leave.
Any Born again believer can at any time decide they are done with Christianity.
They can shun God and refuse to listen or give ear to God's beckoning.

However there will come the day when one has quenched the Holy Spirit to the point He will leave.

Then guess who fills that area?
It's the same thing as Final Destination.

God does not send people to hell.
People choose hell by REJECTING Christ.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4. For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened--those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit,

5. who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come--

6. and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

By the time people get to this point their hearts are so hardened against the good things of God that they won't have anything to do with God or His Word.

However nothing is impossible to God AND IF they come to themselves and realize what they did and repent and turn back to God, well He will take them back.

Sad thing is, most never will come to their right mind.

God won't force anyone to stay.
God will reach out for awhile but won't force, it's all about the condition of the heart.

Remember. ... There is consequences for disobedience and rejecting Christ, especially after one once walked with Him.

Blessings
W4F

We need to properly discuss what exactly it takes to be a Christian. Then I am certain that many who believe you can lose your salvation will change their minds. I used to believe this, but now I do believe my eyes are opened to the truth.

Wanna take a stab at that discussion? It doesn't require another thread. In your dead honest view, what does it take to get saved?

 

[KingJ]

I personally believe that you can lose your salvation. I'm not going to argue with anyone where it is written. The Lord has been impressing upon me lately that there are things NOT written in the Bible that are none the less true and are of God. Are you willing to tempt your salvation on whether the Bible is the complete work of God -- that if it's NOT written in the Bible it must not be true? I don't believe that for a moment. We keep going round-n-round about some of this stuff. Believe what you will -- I also am a post-tribber -- not pre, not mid (I heard this on a Youtube video the other day -- if there was a pretrib rapture, why would it matter if we took the number of the beast -- if we weren't going to be here anyway?). But I digress!

?

I cant agree in the slightest. This view fails on 1. logic test and 2. Christian test.

1. Logic test:

God who created the universe and gave His life for us, fails at giving us His complete and necessary word. The bible is either the complete and true word of God, or it is not. He gave His life for us. The importance of us understanding this in its entirety and accurately is on par with His commitment to going through with the cross. Is this not dead obvious?

2. Christian test:

We don't become a Christian because we read the bible and attend church. We become a Christian because God reveals Jesus to us 1 Cor 12:3, Matt 16:16-17. When God does this, His Holy Spirit teaches us from scripture. We can learn from others actions and their beliefs. It should convince us of the truth and completeness of the bible not the opposite.

Conclusion:

You are (no offence) making an atheistic / god bashing type generic statement. You need to cite actual examples that cause you to state the bible is incomplete.

Perhaps I'm a bit more, ummm, progressive, perhaps bleeding edge? I don't know. Judge me if you wish. I really don't care. I only care about what the Lord thinks of me. Regardless, I FIRMLY believe that you can lose your salvation. I believe that many think that because they were saved when they were at Camp when they were 17 that at 34 they can run amok and fornicate with whomever they choose, commit murder or use drugs and expect to go to Heaven when their time is up. I believe that they will be sorely wrong. I don't know if any of you listen to any current day prophets and the like -- ones that have visited hell for a time (Bill Wiese, Mary K. Baxter among others -- Mary is supposed to be at my church in a month or so -- should be interesting) -- regardless, most of these people who've visited hell find that there are tons of people that are milling about thinking that they're in heaven waiting for judgement and having zero clue that they're in hell. Are you willing to take the chance

I don't believe anyone has visited hell. Why would they need to outside of making lots of money from book sales? The only area we can agree on is that God has given us working brains. If we have one, we don't need the bible to know right from wrong. If we choose to hate what is wrong, we will repent. It is at this point that the bible starts to make sense. The bible is ''all'' about mankinds' repentance and God's gift of Jesus.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

@Born Again 2004 @KingJ

Let's look at something here and see where our enemy the devil benifits.

1. Once saved always saved
2. Salvation can be thrown away.

Once saved always saved is indeed a doctrine of demons.
1. Tells Christians never fear it's all good and you won't lose.

2. Gives Christians false hope.
They can live as they please and do what they please and in the end - they are still saved and heaven bound.

The fact it is possible to walk away from your salvation.
1. Keeps Christians on their toes.
2. Allows Christians to grasp it's not a game
3. Enforces Christians to be on guard for the trickery of the devil.

So then so you both believe salvation can not be lost.
So then explain what Hebrews 6:4-6 Is Referring To....

4. For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened--those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit,

5. who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come--

6. and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

You Are going to have to be born again to experience what is written.

Blessings

 

[Lanolin]

If people are foolish to throw away their salvation and go back to the world and not give their lives to Jesus then that is their choice.

The repentant thief on the cross gave his life (what was left) to Jesus. He suffered WITH Jesus being crucified on the cross. He didnt go back to the world. He understood the punishment.

The other felon on the cross was mocking Jesus with the others. He wanted his own life to be saved (so he could commit crimes again) He died in his sins.

Check out Luke 23:39-43

Have you ever been in prison? Met criminals? Some are wont ever change. They say they will reform but they dont and they go back to commiting crimes again once they get out. However some are truly repentant and wont ever dare.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I keep seeing all over the forum.
1. They are not really saved.
2. Their conversion was not real like mine.
3. They are not truly repentant

Who are any of us to make such a claim?

Can any of us actually see their heart?

Do any of us really know what's in their heart?

Eye Opener.....Only God knows
We are not able to know what's in any ones heart.

You can put the most Godly person you know and your spouse and the guy who seems to be messing up on a list.
......You can not know what's truly in their heart.
.......You do not Know what's going on in their heart.

All you can do is Judge them by your own standards and thoughts or understanding.

It's a very dangerous place to be when you start judging who is or is not saved or walking correctly and it's most Foolish to compare you and your walk against any one.

It's the same with Repentance.
It's a fools errand to start claiming who is truly repetitive or not.

You become Judge and Jury and Only God is able to do this.

Blessings

 

[Psalm23Rick]

Have you ever been in prison? Met criminals? Some are wont ever change. They say they will reform but they dont and they go back to commiting crimes again once they get out. However some are truly repentant and wont ever dare.

Actually, I have.. I spent two years there -- that's where I got saved when my life was being threatened by gang members. That was when my circumstances were just right to have the Holy Spirits conviction be overwhelming to me -- that lasted 3 days for me.

I've met several long-timers and tons of guys who came in and out of either jail or prison pretty much most of their lives. They knew the system and were really not too bothered by it. There was a guy that was in for 20 years who was released a handful of months ago. Whether he goes back into the world or not is up to him. The good Lord cut down his lifetime sentence by close to 100 years if I recall. He's been given the opportunity but what he does with it is up to him.

There are many many people who take this "walk of faith" half heartedly -- not nearly seriously enough. For me it's a once in a lifetime opportunity. I was 50 when I was saved. The Lord wants a RELATIONSHIP with Him -- He wants a partnership here on earth. He wants someone that will be obedient to His desires. I've had some rather interesting things happen since I was saved. I've had tons of prayers answered. I've had numerous visions, several prophesies, seen angels and had various other things happen that are escaping me right now.

I have a passion for the Lord that knows few bounds. He's given me that and I am so thankful. I can't get Him out of my head each and every day. Does that mean I'm perfect? Heck no. I have my good days and bad. I just have to heed His direction and listen & take His chastisement when it comes like it did yesterday when He revealed to me that my daily focus was turning back to the world little by little -- to provide for myself like I used to before I was saved (He told me months ago that He would provide for me -- and He has including through a believer I barely knew at the time and that person paid my house's property tax bill to the tune of $1500 US when I didn't have the funds). Sorry for going OT..

Regardless, think what you will, but I firmly believe that you can either lose your salvation or walk away from it due to unrighteous living. Listen to messages on Youtube from the likes of Neville Johnson, Ian Clayton, Graham Cooke, Bruce Allen, Bobby Conner and others and I think you'll find I'm not too far off base here. The evil one has deceived so many people -- believers in particular to believe things that make the christian walk seem like a cake-walk. If your christian life is easy, then something is dramatically wrong. Just my $2 worth which isn't much these days.. Blessings always..

 

[Born Again 2004]

Once saved always saved is indeed a doctrine of demons.
1. Tells Christians never fear it's all good and you won't lose.

I believe in OSAS, You don't know me from Adam and, are in risk of eternal judgement for judging others. I do not serve a Demon!!!

. Gives Christians false hope.
They can live as they please and do what they please and in the end - they are still saved and heaven bound.

No, you are lumping and judging all of OSAS people in one group. I for one don't do or feel as you categorize me My hope is certainty not false with Jesus in me. You can judge me all you want but, I don't care about your false accusations ( talk about Demonic) . My hope in eternal security abounds and I don't purposely sin..I hate sin....but, I don't practice sin and I realize I am not perfect and will mess up...when I do, I still have a repentant heart and know Jesus died for that too...I am sorry you don't see that!

The fact it is possible to walk away from your salvation.

That is for another discussion, I have no feeling I can do this, again, I am sorry you do!

So then so you both believe salvation can not be lost.
So then explain what Hebrews 6:4-6 Is Referring To....

4. For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened--those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit,

5. who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come--

6. and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

Simple....You cannot "Fall Away" be unsaved and then repent again and be saved again or Be "Born Again" , unborn ( no such thing) and then be "Born Again" as many times as you need....Jesus died one time for all and he is not going to die again as many times as you need...Being born again is a one
time occurrence.

 

[Psalm23Rick]

I have a dear brother in Christ who had been a long term christian since the 70's.. At some point he backslid and whether you consider this OSAS or not is up to you.. But, he had the Holy Spirit ripped out of him and he said it was the most painful thing he's EVER experienced in his life. Eventually, he repented and went through a very dramatic situation where he was eventually given back the Holy Spirit over the course of more than a day or two and he's back on track serving Christ again...

I guess my take on all of these differing doctrines of man is that someday you will see Jesus and He will inform you on who's right or wrong. I just pray that all of us are on the right side of the delineation line. That's all I can add... I will agree that we disagree..

 

[Born Again 2004]

I have a dear brother in Christ who had been a long term christian since the 70's.. At some point he backslid and whether you consider this OSAS or not is up to you.. But, he had the Holy Spirit ripped out of him and he said it was the most painful thing he's EVER experienced in his life. Eventually, he repented and went through a very dramatic situation where he was eventually given back the Holy Spirit over the course of more than a day or two and he's back on track serving Christ again...

It is simple for me God says and I just know in my heart that He died ONCE and for all! That tells me that he is not going to die again. For the sack of using Scripture, here is just two: Hebrews 10:12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, This tells me Christ is the final sacrifice and humans will not be saved...not saved...saved...not saved as they wish....Christ only died once.
Hebrews 6:6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. Do you really think God is going to allow his Son to be crucified again......Besides, he is spirit now and can not die a physical death again!

I guess my take on all of these differing doctrines of man is that someday you will see Jesus and He will inform you on who's right or wrong. I just pray that all of us are on the right side of the delineation line. That's all I can add... I will agree that we disagree..

I also agree to disagree, except for this, I agree. we will all know the truth soon enough! For me, the deciding factor at judgement will be if Jesus is in you are not....I pray that he is in you!

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I believe in OSAS, You don't know me from Adam and, are in risk of eternal judgement for judging others. I do not serve a Demon!

That makes no sense what so ever.
I am in no risk. I am not judging others but some of the so called doctrines.

Obtw......you know you just judged me as making judgments against others and truth is I judge the doctrines not the man.

No, you are lumping and judging all of OSAS people in one group. I for one don't do or feel as you categorize me My hope is certainty not false with Jesus in me. You can judge me all you want but, I don't care about your false accusations ( talk about Demonic) . My hope in eternal security abounds and I don't purposely sin..I hate sin....but, I don't practice sin and I realize I am not perfect and will mess up...when I do, I still have a repentant heart and know Jesus died for that too...I am sor

Again Brother you are quick to jump and assume things.
I only spoke about the once saved only saved bad doctrine.
You have added the rest.

It does not matter how many people believe in a lie, it's still a lie.

That is for another discussion, I have no feeling I can do this, again, I am sorry you do!

No it is most definitely a part of this discussion.
For the rest, I have no clue to why you said it.

Simple....You cannot "Fall Away" be unsaved and then repent again and be saved again or Be "Born Again" , unborn ( no such thing) and then be "Born Again" as many times as you need....Jesus died one time for all and he is not going to die again as many times as you need...Being born again is a one
time occurrence.

This is your answer to Hebrews 6:4-6
Once again you have quickly replied and make no sense.

Now then I will ask again.
What does Hebrews 6:4-6
Mean to you. Rather what is it referring too?

Again as usual, it's a blessing talking with you. Have a great weekend
Blessings
W4F

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

It is simple for me God says and I just know in my heart that He died ONCE and for all! That tells me that he is not going to die again. For the sack of using Scripture, here is just two:

Exactly and yet this in No Way says one can live as they please and retain their salvation.
There is Kingdom Order in the things of God, other wise we can all get saved and go back to our old lifestyle and sin, sin, sin and still walk into Heaven because after all Jesus paid the price for All sin.

The Holy Spirit within us is an Honor and Privilege, but abused and grieved, well eventually He will Return from where He came.

Blessings

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I have a dear brother in Christ who had been a long term christian since the 70's.. At some point he backslid and whether you consider this OSAS or not is up to you.. But, he had the Holy Spirit ripped out of him and he said it was the most painful thing he's EVER experienced in his life. Eventually, he repented and went through a very dramatic situation where he was eventually given back the Holy Spirit over the course of more than a day or two and he's back on track serving Christ again...

I guess my take on all of these differing doctrines of man is that someday you will see Jesus and He will inform you on who's right or wrong. I just pray that all of us are on the right side of the delineation line. That's all I can add... I will agree that we disagree..

Exactly and the dangerous part is that when the Holy Spirit is removed, most people will not even care because of the sin and evil they have let into their lives.

This is when satan works quick to set you up to die. he knows if he can get you dead now at this point, well your his and sadly enough there are far to many believers who have found this out.

There is another christian forum, I use the term loosely that has sections for every so called type of christisns.
They also have a section where believers who once walked with God and had the Holy Spirit and so forth that through deception decided the Christian bible is wrong because an all loving God would not let anyone go to hell.

So they ditch Christ for other better ending and sounding religious beliefs.
They too will quickly run you down when you try to talk some sense into them.

Their hearts are hardened and a prime example of Hebrews 6:4-6

Blessings and Praise God for your friend.
W4F

 

[Born Again 2004]

That makes no sense what so ever.
I am in no risk. I am not judging others but some of the so called doctrines.

Obtw......you know you just judged me as making judgments against others and truth is I judge the doctrines not the man.



Again Brother you are quick to jump and assume things.
I only spoke about the once saved only saved bad doctrine.
You have added the rest.

It does not matter how many people believe in a lie, it's still a lie.



No it is most definitely a part of this discussion.
For the rest, I have no clue to why you said it.



This is your answer to Hebrews 6:4-6
Once again you have quickly replied and make no sense.

Now then I will ask again.
What does Hebrews 6:4-6
Mean to you. Rather what is it referring too?

Again as usual, it's a blessing talking with you. Have a great weekend
Blessings
W4F

Alas, agree to disagree, I see there is no reason to debate you anymore; you or I are right or we are wrong, we will know soon enough!!

 

[Dave M]

John 10:29
My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

John 10:28
I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

we get eternal life now so how could it be eternal if we could loose it,

Romans 6:3-5, 8 “Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection... Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.
,
Problems with the “lose your salvation” position

1. If salvation can be lost, this requires a reversal of regeneration. This means the born again must become unborn again. And if they subsequently repent, then they must become born again again. Can a man also be born again again again? Where does it end? Is regeneration really so transient?
2. If salvation can be lost, “eternal life” cannot be eternal life. It could only be temporary hope for eternal life that couldn’t become eternal life until after we die. As long as we’re still here, how can we call “eternal” what can be lost? Scripture says believers currently have eternal life, not that we might eventually have eternal life. It says that the life we have is eternal, not possibly or potentially eternal (or “to be determined” by whether we manage to keep or lose it). It says we can know that we have eternal life (1 John 5:13). How can we know that if our salvation isn’t secure?
3. If we can lose our salvation, we can also keep it—by abstaining from whatever it takes to lose it. This makes it at least partially dependent on our merits. This flies in the face of Scripture’s teaching that salvation is a miraculous work of God, dependent on Him, not us. If we can lose our salvation, how can we lose it? How can we keep it? What does our answer say about the nature of salvation and who it depends on? Is salvation a 50/50 proposition? Is it 10% us and 90% God? 10% God and 90% us? (Rewards are earned by our work for God, done in dependence on him, but salvation is not earned, it’s not a reward—it’s a gift, earned only by Christ, not us.)
4. Question: If Judas had died soon after he followed Christ would he have gone to Heaven or Hell? If Peter had died soon after he denied Christ, would he have gone to Heaven or Hell? What do our answers suggest about what we really believe concerning the nature of salvation?

Scriptures on Whether True Christians Can Lose Their Salvation - Resources - Eternal Perspective Ministries

 

[Christ4Ever]

Thank-you for sharing that article Brother Dave.
Here are the 2 most important points that I took from it.

1. It is not stupid or immoral or faithless to take either position.

2. Anecdotal evidence of human experience has little weight in determining this issue, since none of us can know for certain who was truly saved and when.

My own point to this entire discussion. Neither position will save you. Only through Jesus the Christ can Salvation be found.

My suggestion to each.
If you believe that you can be saved with/through works. Don't work so hard that you forget that Jesus is the one that saved you, because if you do. All the works in the world won't be saving you.
If you believe you're saved once forever and can/can't walk away from it. Don't live a life that shows that you are actually a Judas and not a Child of the Most High. It just might be true.

Thoughts
If you believe & live for Christ Jesus. You'll have trials and tribulations in your life. The good you think you've done, you may find was not all that good. The bad that you've done, you will find was not only hurting you, but the one you love the most and whose life was given freely for you. For if Jesus is/is not first and foremost in your life, then that's exactly how much of Him you will have.

Now each position can go ahead and chop away at what I've written here, but know in truth that though it may pain me a bit, I will rejoice that it's directed at me instead of at each other!

With the Love of Christ Jesus that I have for you all.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Dave M]

I have learned to respect both views that what I love about that article its a long one but well worth the read covers just about every detail in both views. I lean towards osas myself but respect others view point as well. I applaud you for reading that article as it is a very long one. Randy is one my favorites and is very good when it comes biblical doctrine. IMO

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Alas, agree to disagree, I see there is no reason to debate you anymore; you or I are right or we are wrong, we will know soon enough!!

Agreed and more important is that at the end of the day we better be found with Love in our hearts towards each other and holding no aught.

Have a Wonderful Weekend
Blessings

 

[KingJ]

@Born Again 2004 @KingJ

Let's look at something here and see where our enemy the devil benifits.

1. Once saved always saved
2. Salvation can be thrown away.

Once saved always saved is indeed a doctrine of demons.
1. Tells Christians never fear it's all good and you won't lose.

2. Gives Christians false hope.
They can live as they please and do what they please and in the end - they are still saved and heaven bound.

The fact it is possible to walk away from your salvation.
1. Keeps Christians on their toes.
2. Allows Christians to grasp it's not a game
3. Enforces Christians to be on guard for the trickery of the devil.

So then so you both believe salvation can not be lost.
So then explain what Hebrews 6:4-6 Is Referring To....

4. For it is impossible to bring back to repentance those who were once enlightened--those who have experienced the good things of heaven and shared in the Holy Spirit,

5. who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the power of the age to come--

6. and who then turn away from God. It is impossible to bring such people back to repentance; by rejecting the Son of God, they themselves are nailing him to the cross once again and holding him up to public shame.

You Are going to have to be born again to experience what is written.

Blessings

Thanks for reasoning with me Jim. This is how we should discuss all matters :wink:.

1. Agreed. Paul teaches us in 1 Cor 10:12 that we must not think we standing firm, lest we fall.
2. Agreed. Humans always want to assume the best of themselves. We can and do deceive ourselves.
4, 5 & 6 'Those enlightened' is referring to all who have heard the gospel. Not all who hear are saved. Those who have already heard and not been saved are highly unlikely to want to hear again. They have ''tasted'', not eaten.

Conclusion:

We make mistakes, God does not. We can assume we are saved. God knows who are His. If God makes mistakes, then maybe the devil is going to heaven sometime?

What exactly is salvation?

It is paramount to grasp what it takes to get saved. This is where all the confusion originates from. People just don't fully grasp the event.

When we repent, God judges us. At a depth / level that no human can Jer 17:9-11. We either pass or we fail. If we pass God reveals Jesus to us / gives us faith to call and believe Jesus is Lord 1 Cor 12:3, Matt 16:16-17. God does not make the mistake of passing someone who will later fail. Just as God did not make a mistake in ex-communicating many angels from heaven.

We have to understand that in order to pass God's judgment of our hearts desire, we need absolutely sincere repentance Psalm 51:17. We need to be able to completely lay our lives down for God Matt 16:24. It is on par with marriage vows, except that our spouse is God who can see through our empty words. He only commits to those whose vows are truthful / reach the required depth of intent.

 

[KingJ]

I keep seeing all over the forum.
1. They are not really saved.
2. Their conversion was not real like mine.
3. They are not truly repentant

Who are any of us to make such a claim?

Can any of us actually see their heart?

Do any of us really know what's in their heart?

Eye Opener.....Only God knows
We are not able to know what's in any ones heart.

You can put the most Godly person you know and your spouse and the guy who seems to be messing up on a list.
......You can not know what's truly in their heart.
.......You do not Know what's going on in their heart.

All you can do is Judge them by your own standards and thoughts or understanding.

It's a very dangerous place to be when you start judging who is or is not saved or walking correctly and it's most Foolish to compare you and your walk against any one.

It's the same with Repentance.
It's a fools errand to start claiming who is truly repetitive or not.

You become Judge and Jury and Only God is able to do this.

Blessings

I agree with this. You basically just repeating what I said to you above, lol. Which makes me wonder how you don't believe in OSAS? God knows the heart. OSAS is true from God's perspective. It can be from ours if we pass a session of harsh self judgment and can without a doubt call Jesus Lord.