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Can A Saved person Ever Become Unsaved?

Can A Saved person Ever Become Unsaved?


  • Total voters
    33
Loyal
The truth is that you cannot lose your salvation. God does not make mistakes. I
But it is a contract - a covenant - between two parties.
One party, God, is true and faithful and will always desire for our succeeding and coming to perfection. Completing the race.
BUT, the other party, us, can be fickle and start off with good intentions but for many many reasons pertinent to each person's
circumstances calls it quits. Walks away from their side of the contract - commitment.

Once saved always saved makes the fatal flaw that there are some that are truly saved as opposed to others who are just saved, or
are not really saved because they end up "not making it."

FALSE: you are saved when you believe and submit to the gospel [here is another bone of contention; which gospel?]
Anyway let's put that one aside for a moment.
When a believer takes on the gospel and obeys the fundamental commands to repent and be baptised in water and the Holy Spirit
then they are to all intents and purposes they are saved. One is either in the Kingdom of God or one is not.

People do call it quits. Believers stop believing. Righteousness can be replaced by sinfulness. Christians do fall away.
There are backsliders. And some of these were as Christian as the next person who endures.

That is why both in the gospels and in the epistles there are so many dire warnings in respect to keeping the faith, and in
overcoming by the power of the Holy Spirit. Staying true to one's calling. Not looking back. Not retreating unto perdition.

Many of the verses cited in respect to God's promises and faithfulness are expressions of God's nature and consistency.
But they are not insurance clauses for the unfaithful and quitters.

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us,
what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing,
as unto a faithful Creator.
1Peter 4:17-19
 
Loyal
God doesn't make mistakes. True. But we do. Can you as a Christian say you've never made a mistake?
If you can't say that... then who's fault is it a mistake was made? Yours' or Gods'.

Did God make a mistake when he chose Solomon? Judas? Ananias? Sapphira? Esau?

Gen 6:6; The LORD was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

Was it God's fault that was man is evil? Or is simply man's choice to be evil?

2 Pet 3:9; The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Is it God's fault some aren't saved? Or is it man's choice not be saved?

1Tim 2:3; This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4; who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Why do we assume if someone doesn't stay saved... God made a mistake?

Rev 3:20; 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Jesus knocks on a lot of doors, is it His fault that some refuse to open the door?

We need to quit blaming what's wrong with people and the choices they make on God.

Jas 1:13; Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am being tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings,

I thought it may be beneficial to this thread after so many replies to look again at the original post.

"Can a saved person ever become unsaved?"


Though there has been much debate on the subject over the years, I believe that the Bible is very explicit on this point. In fact, the book of 1 John was written to this point: "These things I have written to you who believe in the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.(1 John 5:13)." Notice that the Apostle says you now have eternal life. We don't get eternal life after we die... we have it right now, when we believe.

Now, let's follow this idea to its logical conclusion. If we know we have eternal life when we believe in Jesus, how long does eternal life last? Can you have eternal life for a year? A week? A day? If words mean anything at all, then eternal life must be eternal. It must last forever! Eternal life by definition cannot be lost.


Let's look at it another way. What sin is so big that Jesus' death could not atone for it? There is none that I know of (we'll exclude for the moment the passage of Mark 3:28-30, as it really doesn't apply here). Every sin that man can commit against God and man, even the most heinous was dealt with at the cross of Calvary. If this is so, then what sin can be so bad that it would cause God to "unforgive" that which He has already paid for? Romans 8:38-39 explicitly states this, saying "For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

I am a created thing. The verse above states that created things cannot separate us from the love of God, therefore I cannot separate myself from the love of God, either!
Also, in John 10:29, Jesus tells us "And I give eternal life to them; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." No one includes me! Notice the picture here. You are being held in Jesus' hand, and in the Father's hand. Cup one of your hands over the other, as you would hold a frightened bird. That is the way God holds onto you.

We believe as Christians that we are in a better position than before we were saved. Remember, there is nothing we can do to merit salvation, it's all a work of God. Also remember, God predestined us to our salvation (Eph. 1:4). Would God make a mistake? No, I think the evidence clearly supports the view that your salvation is secure. That thought should be comforting in times of doubt.

Now, I don't want to mislead you. There are several passages which, when read alone, may lead you to believe that you could lose your salvation (Heb 6:5-6, etc.), but careful study can lead to conclusions from these verses that does not necessitate the idea of losing your salvation. Paul was addressing the saved about spies from the Temple (stating that they were Christians) that were among their midst and trying to get the saved to go to the Temple and participate in sacrifices. Paul was stating that it was impossible to "Fall Away"...essentially saying how can you fall away from a place that you have never been, i.e., these spies were not saved in the first place.

Can A Saved person Ever Become Unsaved?

Bless you ....><>
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings again,

and this early reply really needs honest, prayerful consideration:

The purchase price was what----Jesus Christ

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

I wonder to those that believe it possible to lose your salvation, by what means will the Holy ghost be evicted from his temple? Bought with a price, purchased, your not your own. If not your own than who's? Gods, who is what? Faithful to finish that good work which he started.

We ARE bought with a price and we ARE NOT our own.
We, ourselves, CAN NOT lose the Salvation promised to us for we are His, completely His, in His mercy, judgement and love.

Please prayerfully considered this.

The devil is a liar and a theif, a deceiver who wants to/ tries to get you thinking against what the LORD has clearly said, both in writing (Scriptures) and the witness we have in our heart and spirit.

Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding.

Bless you ....><>
 
Member
But it is a contract - a covenant - between two parties.
One party, God, is true and faithful and will always desire for our succeeding and coming to perfection. Completing the race.
BUT, the other party, us, can be fickle and start off with good intentions but for many many reasons pertinent to each person's
circumstances calls it quits. Walks away from their side of the contract - commitment.

Once saved always saved makes the fatal flaw that there are some that are truly saved as opposed to others who are just saved, or
are not really saved because they end up "not making it."

FALSE: you are saved when you believe and submit to the gospel [here is another bone of contention; which gospel?]
Anyway let's put that one aside for a moment.
When a believer takes on the gospel and obeys the fundamental commands to repent and be baptised in water and the Holy Spirit
then they are to all intents and purposes they are saved. One is either in the Kingdom of God or one is not.

People do call it quits. Believers stop believing. Righteousness can be replaced by sinfulness. Christians do fall away.
There are backsliders. And some of these were as Christian as the next person who endures.

That is why both in the gospels and in the epistles there are so many dire warnings in respect to keeping the faith, and in
overcoming by the power of the Holy Spirit. Staying true to one's calling. Not looking back. Not retreating unto perdition.

Many of the verses cited in respect to God's promises and faithfulness are expressions of God's nature and consistency.
But they are not insurance clauses for the unfaithful and quitters.

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us,
what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing,
as unto a faithful Creator.
1Peter 4:17-19

It's easy to obey the false gospels prevalent throughout the world. Besides, the gospel of God was never meant to save anyone. It was meant to teach us about God's salvation plan and all the other hidden things from man.

Psalm 22
30: Posterity shall serve him; men shall tell of the Lord to the coming generation,
31: and proclaim his deliverance to a people yet unborn, that he has wrought it.
 
Loyal
This is merely opinion. And the speaker gives his personal opinion on the matter.
However, the scriptures are authoritative on the matter. Believers can lose their salvation through their unbelief.

This video is typical of the poor understanding of what Jesus demands from his Church - the body of Christ.
Commitment. Loyalty. Faithfulness. Daily repentance. Using the Holy Spirit daily. Overcoming. Pressing on. Discernment.

The tragedy is that many believers choose not to continue in these things and let their faith and zeal lapse.
The scriptures are very clear concerning failure to persevere and remain in Christ and the gospel - believers can be cast out... they can have their name
struck out of the Book of Life.

OSAS doctrine is no more than personal feel good wishful preaching. A refusal to embrace the strict requirements of holiness and submission to the very high
standards of fulfilling the moral living of the gospel.
In the end it is simply permission for the slackness and deteriorating standards in Christianity so prevalent these days.
 
Loyal
Walking with God is, I believe, like climbing a hill covered with small round stones which roll underfoot as we walk on them. We must at all times continue to walk upward toward God at the top. Moving too slowly or not moving at all may result in us sliding backward away from God. Moving at a balanced rate which neither gains nor loses ground, is in fact a stagnant way... or a way of death.

All of us must, I believe, grow upward toward God until we have reached the end of our course [natural death]. There is no plateau of Life. A plateau is higher place than a low valley or a bottomless pit but it is not at the summit of the mountain where God is. Such a plateau gained is effectively a place of stagnation and death... if person stops to rest. Our only Rest is in Jesus and He is at the right hand of the Father. Such a plateau is where people are who believe they received final salvation because they did they encounter the highway of holiness. They were on the road, but the road is a talus slope [hill of small round stones] and they failed to keep moving toward God... they either stagnate or slide backward.

Dr. McGee referred to I Corinthians chapter three which speaks of our foundation and then it speaks of what we may build on that foundation: gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay and stubble. As he said the six mentioned things represent our reward in accordance with how well they are able to endure the fire... but without the proper foundation, nothing would stand. The foundation clearly is Jesus [I Cor 3:11], but if a person destroys or gets off of that foundation in favor of another one, then he is not saved and the six things built upon other foundations are worthless.

Can a person destroy the right foundation or remove himself from it? The scripture provides many examples of people doing just that. If I am in error on this anyone can test it by doing it his/her way and standing still rather than continuing to climb toward God but if they are are wrong they have lost everything in the end.

It is hard to live for God easy. It is easy to live for God hard. Living for God is in the walking on the highway of holiness. Jesus provided the power, but we choose not to use it, who should we blame for not making it with Him and to Him until the end?
 
Loyal
If salvation can be lost, “eternal life” cannot be eternal life pretty simple really

Scripture says believers currently have eternal life, not that we might eventually have eternal life
John 5:13

If we can lose our salvation, how can we lose it? How can we keep it? What does our answer say about the nature of salvation and who it depends on? Is salvation a 50/50 proposition? Is it 10% us and 90% God? 10% God and 90% us? (Rewards are earned by our work for God, done in dependence on him, but salvation is not earned, it’s not a reward—it’s a gift, earned only by Christ, not us.)

Scriptures on Whether True Christians Can Lose Their Salvation - Resources - Eternal Perspective Ministries
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings @Dave M ,
That link leads to an interesting article, however, I personally (and I think others may share this view) am only interested in our Lord's position, not an Arminian nor a Calvinist position.
Who is He Who intercedes for us, an Arminian? a Calvinist? No. Do we ourselves? No.
Jesus Christ the Righteous Who is Judge is He Who by His Blood bought us.

We are not, no, not one of us, our own .

Thank you for sharing and giving your input.

Bless you ....><>

P.S. I did not watch the video you posted.
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings @Waggles

You last reply destroys all hope as you indicate, deliberately or not, that Salvation depends upon our efforts and not the LORD.
I am aware that you most probably do not bide by such a graceless doctrine and God but what you wrote certainly can leave a reader doubting as they consider, not Christ our Saviour, but their own good work.

At what point can we ever say we are accepted by our godly life? Surely any honest man would lose all hope if their faith becomes settled upon their personal level of goodness?

The devil is a liar and a thief.
I think you know that.

Please understand that I am not having a go at you but you have posted here such as you have and due admonition is acceptable for those who are members of the Body and it is love for you and for all members of the Body that such is given.

Bless you ....><>
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings,

may I ask what the name of our Lord Jesus is?

I am not a Hebrew nor Greek scholar but from what I understand the Aramaic or Hebrew equivalent to Jesus (please don't split hairs), Joshua or Jahjahoshuah means something like Salvation or The Salvation of God or God's Salvation or God. THEREFORE, when we consider 'our salvation' as is being discussed in this thread, are we overlooking the only Salvation available unto man and getting caught up in a deception to divide and steal?

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13

From Jonah chapter 2:
Then Jonah prayed unto the LORD his God out of the fish's belly,
And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the LORD, and He heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and Thou heardest my voice.
For Thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all Thy billows and Thy waves passed over me.

Then I said, I am cast out of Thy sight; yet I will look again toward Thy holy temple.
The waters compassed me about, even to the soul: the depth closed me round about, the weeds were wrapped about my head.
I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast Thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.

When my soul fainted within me I remembered the LORD: and my prayer came in unto Thee, into Thine holy temple.

They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy.

But I will sacrifice unto Thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.
And the LORD spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah upon the dry land.

and Isaiah chapter 45
Thus saith the LORD to His anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known Me.

I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside Me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known Me:
That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside Me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.

Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?

Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask Me of things to come concerning My sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye Me.

I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even My hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.

Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.

Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.


But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.


For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God Himself that formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save. Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside Me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside Me.

Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.


23I have sworn by Myself, the word is gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to Him shall men come; and all that are incensed against Him shall be ashamed.

In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

... Job chapter 38:
Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?

Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou Me.

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?

Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.

Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?

Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?

Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.

Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?

Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?

Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail, Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?

By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?

Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder; To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man; To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?

Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.

Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?

Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?

Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?

Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven, When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?

Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions, When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?
Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.

... Isaiah chapter 12
And in that day thou shalt say, O LORD, I will praise Thee: though Thou wast angry with me, Thine anger is turned away, and Thou comfortedst me.

Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; He also is become my salvation.

Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation.

And in that day shall ye say, Praise the LORD, call upon His name, declare His doings among the people, make mention that His name is exalted.
Sing unto the LORD; for He hath done excellent things: this is known in all the earth.

Cry out and shout, thou inhabitant of Zion: for great is the Holy One of Israel in the midst of thee.

Job 40:1-2
Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,

Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
 
Member
The true Hebrew name of Our Saviour and Redeemer is Yahusha which means Yah is Salvation. The name of the Father is Yahuah(YHUH)
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings @amadeus2 ,

Psalm 66:1-9

{To the chief Musician, A Song or Psalm.} Make a joyful noise unto God, all ye lands: Sing forth the honour of His name: make His praise glorious.

Say unto God, How terrible art Thou in Thy works! through the greatness of Thy power shall Thine enemies submit themselves unto Thee.
All the earth shall worship Thee, and shall sing unto Thee; they shall sing to Thy name. Selah.

Come and see the works of God: He is terrible in His doing toward the children of men.
He turned the sea into dry land: they went through the flood on foot: there did we rejoice in Him.

He ruleth by His power for ever; His eyes behold the nations: let not the rebellious exalt themselves. Selah.

O bless our God, ye people, and make the voice of His praise to be heard:

Which holdeth our soul in life, and suffereth not our feet to be moved.

And Hannah prayed, and said, My heart rejoiceth in the LORD, mine horn is exalted in the LORD: my mouth is enlarged over mine enemies; because I rejoice in Thy salvation.

There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside Thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the LORD is a God of knowledge, and by Him actions are weighed.

The bows of the mighty men are broken, and they that stumbled are girded with strength. They that were full have hired out themselves for bread; and they that were hungry ceased: so that the barren hath born seven; and she that hath many children is waxed feeble.
The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: He bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: He bringeth low, and lifteth up. He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD'S, and He hath set the world upon them.

He will keep the feet of His saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness; for by strength shall no man prevail.
1Samuel 2:1-9

{A Song of degrees.} I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help. My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth.

He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: He that keepeth thee will not slumber.
Psalm 121:1-3

Habakkuk 3
A prayer of Habakkuk the prophet upon Shigionoth.

O LORD, I have heard Thy speech, and was afraid: O LORD, revive Thy work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy.

God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of His praise.

And His brightness was as the light; He had horns coming out of His hand: and there was the hiding of His power. Before Him went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at His feet. He stood, and measured the earth: He beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: His ways are everlasting.

I saw the tents of Cushan in affliction: and the curtains of the land of Midian did tremble.
Was the LORD displeased against the rivers? was Thine anger against the rivers? was Thy wrath against the sea, that Thou didst ride upon Thine horses and Thy chariots of salvation?

Thy bow was made quite naked, according to the oaths of the tribes, even Thy word. Selah. Thou didst cleave the earth with rivers. The mountains saw Thee, and they trembled: the overflowing of the water passed by: the deep uttered his voice, and lifted up his hands on high. The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of Thine arrows they went, and at the shining of Thy glittering spear.
Thou didst march through the land in indignation, Thou didst thresh the heathen in anger.

Thou wentest forth for the salvation of Thy people, even for salvation with Thine anointed; Thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering the foundation unto the neck. Selah.


Thou didst strike through with his staves the head of his villages: they came out as a whirlwind to scatter me: their rejoicing was as to devour the poor secretly.
Thou didst walk through the sea with Thine horses, through the heap of great waters.

When I heard, my belly trembled; my lips quivered at the voice: rottenness entered into my bones, and I trembled in myself, that I might rest in the day of trouble: when He cometh up unto the people, He will invade them with His troops.

Although the fig tree shall not blossom,
neither shall fruit be in the vines;
the labour of the olive shall fail,
and the fields shall yield no meat;
the flock shall be cut off from the fold,
and there shall be no herd in the stalls:

Yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will joy in the God of my salvation.

The LORD God is my strength, and He will make my feet like hinds' feet, and He will make me to walk upon mine high places. To the chief singer on my stringed instruments.

Psalm 18:30-33
As for God, His way is perfect: the word of the LORD is tried: He is a buckler to all those that trust in Him.
For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?
It is God that girdeth me with strength, and maketh my way perfect.

He maketh my feet like hinds' feet, and setteth me upon my high places.

Bless you ....><>
 
Loyal
Greetings @Dave M ,
That link leads to an interesting article, however, I personally (and I think others may share this view) am only interested in our Lord's position, not an Arminian nor a Calvinist position.
Who is He Who intercedes for us, an Arminian? a Calvinist? No. Do we ourselves? No.
Jesus Christ the Righteous Who is Judge is He Who by His Blood bought us.

We are not, no, not one of us, our own .

Thank you for sharing and giving your input.

Bless you ....><>

P.S. I did not watch the video you posted.

I thought that was the exact point of the article, perhaps I was mistaken
 
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings,

I thought that was the exact point of the article, perhaps I was mistaken

no.
Perhaps you missed the point of, "not an Arminian nor a Calvinist position."?
Or, perhaps I missed the point? I shall go back and re-read.

Thank you again,

Bless you ....><>
 
Loyal
If salvation can be lost, “eternal life” cannot be eternal life pretty simple really

Scripture says believers currently have eternal life, not that we might eventually have eternal life
John 5:13

Who is presently saved? In this moment a person may be pleasing God, but in the next moment he may be pleasing himself or others as with Peter in Mark 8:29 and Mark 8:33.

As I understand the scriptures, Jesus opened the Door and provided the means for each person to walk through that Door to then be able to eat of the Tree of Life. Before Jesus the Door was closed [from Gen 3:24] and so men ... even the best of men... were hindered until God sent His Son to fulfill the Promise. The Promise to make a Way and to provide the means to follow that Way were fulfilled when Jesus said, "It is finished". God through His Son and the Holy Ghost made good on His Promises, but you and I must use what we have been given to decrease on the one hand [the old man and his ways] and to increase on the other [the new man and his Way]:

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

What we are in the end of the matter is what matters in the end. The "good thief" seemingly did what was right in the end for him. Others, although they did some good during the time given to them, messed up in the end.

If we can lose our salvation, how can we lose it?

How did Adam and Eve lose their way? Are we better than Adam and Eve? Is God a respecter of persons? Why is that they could lose their way if we cannot? Has God changed?

How can we keep it? What does our answer say about the nature of salvation and who it depends on? Is salvation a 50/50 proposition? Is it 10% us and 90% God? 10% God and 90% us? (Rewards are earned by our work for God, done in dependence on him, but salvation is not earned, it’s not a reward—it’s a gift, earned only by Christ, not us.)

Always there are choices and always there have been choices for men. This was true for people living during the times described in the OT as well as in those described in the NT including now. There are only two real choices: God's Way or some other way. [These two choices are what men would call "free will".] God has opened some doors and has provided all the help that anyone ever needed to enable them to make the choice God had wanted them to make, but He has never removed the choices... Some people of course have thrown away what they had:

"The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly." Prov 20:27

"For there shall be no reward to the evil man; the candle of the wicked shall be put out." Prov 24:20

Without the candle of the Lord a person could no longer be able to make the right choice. Someone who has gone the right way and uses his final chance for receiving God's mercy becomes what I see as a reprobate. There may be some of those around, but who among us without a clear vision of such a person from God would say that that is where any person was or is?

Even persons with the brighter Light [brighter than the candle light with which every person is born at natural birth] which comes to a person who has met the Master can cause that brighter Light along with the lesser light to be extinguished by making their informed own choice against God. You want to say that a person can reach a place in this flesh prior to death where he will never see death again. I do agree, but it is not a place where the person is no longer able to go against God. The choices remain, I believe, until he dies physically or he has sinned the unpardonable sin. I believe that the unpardonable sin can only be committed by someone who knows what he is doing. Who does?
 
Active
LOL I know this is a very heated topic. So rather then tell you anything,I will just have you consider a few things.1. Is there anything created in this world that cannot become lost to you,once you obtain it? The answer is anything one can have can become lost.So this is flesh. 2. In Christ Jesus we have free will,if I choose you to be on my team,can you join, then leave as you wish? sure! (Matt 13:18-23) verse 21!

How can one fall away from anything unless one first has believed in order to fall away? Now! When people get to verse 23 THEN!!! OSAS takes place! Can one who has fallen away come back? YES!!!!! BUT!!!! Also some will not!!! All disciples fell away!( Matt 26:56) But came back,however some will indeed not return! Two ways this happens. 1.( 1 Tim 4:1-2)Some say they never believed to start with,but there is no scripture saying this! They are assuming! The Word does not assume!

It means what it says to me! 2. A favorite for both sides is this scripture!( Heb 6:4-6) But is you look close at these verses you will find that this is talking about Gal 5:4!! For after those who have believed in Jesus and his fulfilling( Rom 10:4), and then go back to the law,they become judged by the law they have chosen to go back to! Hope this helps you better understand. I left the Lord myself for 8 long years,and through the very grace and kindness of our Jesus he endured me!( Rom 2:4) So I know for a fact some who fall away for a time can indeed come back!

There is always hope!( Rom 15:13) But some will burn there mind against the Lord for whatever reason,and they will become lost.It is not the Lord's fault,he did not wish to have robots,he wanted people to choose!From the Old( Joshua 24:15 to the new ( Heb 13:8-9!!) If you cannot lose your salvation, then there sure would be no need to examine oneself daily to see if you are in the faith!( 2 Cor 13:5) And the central theme in Revelation is about overcoming!( Rev 2:7,11,17,26 Rev 3:5,12,21 and if that is not enough Rev 21:7! I believe most here are fully established in Christ Jesus!! So I am not talking about those who are! I am talking about the new believer. And those who are insecure in there own relationship with our Jesus.
 
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