Can A Saved person Ever Become Unsaved?

[RJ]

"Can a saved person ever become unsaved?"


Though there has been much debate on the subject over the years, I believe that the Bible is very explicit on this point. In fact, the book of 1 John was written to this point: "These things I have written to you who believe in the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.(1 John 5:13)." Notice that the Apostle says you now have eternal life. We don't get eternal life after we die... we have it right now, when we believe.

Now, let's follow this idea to its logical conclusion. If we know we have eternal life when we believe in Jesus, how long does eternal life last? Can you have eternal life for a year? A week? A day? If words mean anything at all, then eternal life must be eternal. It must last forever! Eternal life by definition cannot be lost.


Let's look at it another way. What sin is so big that Jesus' death could not atone for it? There is none that I know of (we'll exclude for the moment the passage of Mark 3:28-30, as it really doesn't apply here). Every sin that man can commit against God and man, even the most heinous was dealt with at the cross of Calvary. If this is so, then what sin can be so bad that it would cause God to "unforgive" that which He has already paid for? Romans 8:38-39 explicitly states this, saying "For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

I am a created thing. The verse above states that created things cannot separate us from the love of God, therefore I cannot separate myself from the love of God, either!
Also, in John 10:29, Jesus tells us "And I give eternal life to them; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." No one includes me! Notice the picture here. You are being held in Jesus' hand, and in the Father's hand. Cup one of your hands over the other, as you would hold a frightened bird. That is the way God holds onto you.

We believe as Christians that we are in a better position than before we were saved. Remember, there is nothing we can do to merit salvation, it's all a work of God. Also remember, God predestined us to our salvation (Eph. 1:4). Would God make a mistake? No, I think the evidence clearly supports the view that your salvation is secure. That thought should be comforting in times of doubt.

Now, I don't want to mislead you. There are several passages which, when read alone, may lead you to believe that you could lose your salvation (Heb 6:5-6, etc.), but careful study can lead to conclusions from these verses that does not necessitate the idea of losing your salvation. Paul was addressing the saved about spies from the Temple (stating that they were Christians) that were among their midst and trying to get the saved to go to the Temple and participate in sacrifices. Paul was stating that it was impossible to "Fall Away"...essentially saying how can you fall away from a place that you have never been, i.e., these spies were not saved in the first place.

 

[jeremiah7]

Just wanted to ask you a question RJ, even if it be hypothetical.

What if a person truly repented of his sins and accepted Jesus as Savior and later on (say maybe 5-6 yrs. later) falls into a specific sin of which he does not repent and continues in it and suddenly dies?

 

[RJ]

Just wanted to ask you a question RJ, even if it be hypothetical.

What if a person truly repented of his sins and accepted Jesus as Savior and later on (say maybe 5-6 yrs. later) falls into a specific sin of which he does not repent and continues in it and suddenly dies?

re·pent/riˈpent/Verb
1. Feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin.
2. View or think of (an action or omission) with deep regret or remorse

Jeremiah,

I have seen you here many times over the years and know that you follow the Lord.

I think (feel) that the above definition of repent is exactly how the Bible views it also.

As I think many have the wrong idea that Repent means: " Go to the Lord and ask for forgiveness", which is totally wrong and can lead to bondage that you may not be saved if you don't do it, forget or whatever.

So, let's go back to the definition and your hypothetical:

No offense intended and since it is just a scenario, I say that your hypthetical is an oxy-moron. If a person was "truly saved" but turns around and commits a "specific sin" (meaning he knows it is a sin) and now has no sincere remorse or regret, is not possible. In a often miss-understood scripture, Paul talks about this type of person in
Hebrews 6:4-6. Essentially, I think, that Paul is saying it is impossible to once being saved and fall away to un-remorseful, non-regreting sin. Where is the Holy Spirit, that is supposed to be in you and convicting of your wrong doing.

Aside from further dicussions, I would also like to answer your hypothetical question with a question:

Knowing from T.J. and knowing you are a true Christian, could you fall away to openly acknowledge a sin in your life and have no remorse or regret for that sin?

 

[yort]

The Assurance of your salvation

Even though those that are bought will have eternal life,the proces of sanctification is on going, due to the fact they, we, are still in the human body,(Flesh), we, they can have the assurance of eternal life based on what the word of God says, "Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit". I so much like that small little word "Now". It's clear understanding that the now is present for the believer as he or she is living and breathing but is also representive as we are to stand before Christ in our judgment.

 

[RJ]

Even though those that are bought will have eternal life,the proces of satification is on going, due to the fact they,we, are still in the human body,(Flesh),we, they can have the assurance of eternal life based on what the word of God says,"Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit". I so much like that small little word "Now". It's clear understanding that the now is present for the believer as he or she is living and breathing but is also representive as we are to stand before Christ in our judgment.

Absolutely, unequivocally, the kind of truth that Jesus said that will set you free!


Some other truths:


Born Again
Jesus Christ lives in you for all eternity
God will never leave or forsake you
Salvation is now
It is not of your works
God said that he would look at your sins no more
You bare his fruit not yours
Once saved always saved
Forgiveness comes from the cross
Faith is a gift and free

And the list goes on!

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I was compelled to vote no.

Eph. 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
Eph 2:2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this
world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

You were already dead when you first believed you came alive.

Eph 2:5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions
Col 2:12 Having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus.

Hath raised means already happened,if you could lose this new life on and off you would experience multiple deaths.According to Col 2 :!2 your already resurrected from the dead into life.
We will see it when we believe it and enforce it with our tongue.

Born again,sealed with the Spirit,bought with a price and saved all really mean the same thing.A new life started in heaven and coming down from heaven to invade a dark world starting in our Spirit and with water and good soil eventually invading our body and then our household then our neighborhood etc....

That's why if you willingly walk away from this gift there remains no sacrifice seeing we can't re-crucify Christ.

 

[ForumAddict]

I rest assured that when He says

John 10:28 King James Version (KJV)

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[RJ]

I rest assured that when He says

John 10:28 King James Version (KJV)

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Amen to that!!!

 

[David777]

Falling away.

No chance of that if and only if you remain in Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:23

if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

There can be no doubt that it is a daily choice to remain in the Gospel.
That is what this passage indicates does it not.

 

[Property Of God]

No you can not *lose* it. You didn't earn it to lose it. It was a gift and grace from God, you didn't deserve it in the first place to not deserve it.

 

[RJ]

No chance of that if and only if you remain in Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:23

if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

There can be no doubt that it is a daily choice to remain in the Gospel.
That is what this passage indicates does it not.

With all due love and respect, I don't think that this verse has anything to do with loosing your salvation. Not this verse or the entire chapter is about you maintaing your salvation, "if and only if" that is more the Law and legalism than anything. Look at verse 26:

26 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

God says that from the moment you are saved, His Spirt, Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ lives in you for eternity. God also says that he will never leave or foresake you. Again God says that Grace ( which also means salvation) is a gift. If it is a gift it is free. Now where in the Bible does God say that he will take his gift back for any reason, only man is capable of finding ways to loose what God gave him!

 

[yort]

The purchase price was what----Jesus Christ

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.

I wonder to those that believe it possible to lose your salvation, by what means will the Holy ghost be evicted from his temple? Bought with a price, purchased, your not your own. If not your own than who's? Gods, who is what? Faithful to finish that good work which he started.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

I wonder to those that believe it possible to lose your salvation, by what means will the Holy ghost be evicted from his temple? Bought with a price, purchased, your not your own. If not your own than who's? Gods, who is what? Faithful to finish that good work which he started.

That just sits there looking at you,like that little pile of Gieco money.
Like....this is the grief you could have saved if you had simply believed his word.

But Yort what if God didn't pay the property tax or what if his insurance company decided the house was to much of a liability,would'nt he dump you on a short sale?(I'm being facetious)

Prov. 31:16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
This verse has manifold meanings,one of them shows Gods due diligence in choosing a sustainable resource.
We are the field and he considered our purchase from the foundation of the world.
Is it to difficult to assume he knew what he was doing?

 

[jeremiah7]

Friends,

There are many thoughts regarding this topic and even in the poll result as of now, out of 8 people 5 have said "no-we cannot lose salvation", 2 have said "we can" and 1 is "not sure". If all the people on this forum voted, we could see the difference even better. Believers have different opinions regarding this topic.

I have my understanding in this manner.
When a person accepts Christ as Savior, he is put in charge of the Holy Spirit and the Bible says that we are sealed with the Holy Spirit.....

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)

So if a believer sins, the Holy Spirit knows how to bring back the person to repentance. If he/she is sinning continually, God will put that person through a fiery trial/trials and bring him/her to repentance, even if it is just before he/she dies.

 

[jari]

I'm interested to hear why people who say we can lose salvation havent ever explained Ephesians 4:30 ? Atleast I've never heard explantion to this.

Is it possible that by disobedience or willingful sin , God takes back His holy spirit?
And we become dead?

 

[Erikb]

"Can a saved person ever become unsaved?"


Though there has been much debate on the subject over the years, I believe that the Bible is very explicit on this point. In fact, the book of 1 John was written to this point: "These things I have written to you who believe in the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.(1 John 5:13)." Notice that the Apostle says you now have eternal life. We don't get eternal life after we die... we have it right now, when we believe.

Now, let's follow this idea to its logical conclusion. If we know we have eternal life when we believe in Jesus, how long does eternal life last? Can you have eternal life for a year? A week? A day? If words mean anything at all, then eternal life must be eternal. It must last forever! Eternal life by definition cannot be lost.


Let's look at it another way. What sin is so big that Jesus' death could not atone for it? There is none that I know of (we'll exclude for the moment the passage of Mark 3:28-30, as it really doesn't apply here). Every sin that man can commit against God and man, even the most heinous was dealt with at the cross of Calvary. If this is so, then what sin can be so bad that it would cause God to "unforgive" that which He has already paid for? Romans 8:38-39 explicitly states this, saying "For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."

I am a created thing. The verse above states that created things cannot separate us from the love of God, therefore I cannot separate myself from the love of God, either!
Also, in John 10:29, Jesus tells us "And I give eternal life to them; and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." No one includes me! Notice the picture here. You are being held in Jesus' hand, and in the Father's hand. Cup one of your hands over the other, as you would hold a frightened bird. That is the way God holds onto you.

We believe as Christians that we are in a better position than before we were saved. Remember, there is nothing we can do to merit salvation, it's all a work of God. Also remember, God predestined us to our salvation (Eph. 1:4). Would God make a mistake? No, I think the evidence clearly supports the view that your salvation is secure. That thought should be comforting in times of doubt.

Now, I don't want to mislead you. There are several passages which, when read alone, may lead you to believe that you could lose your salvation (Heb 6:5-6, etc.), but careful study can lead to conclusions from these verses that does not necessitate the idea of losing your salvation. Paul was addressing the saved about spies from the Temple (stating that they were Christians) that were among their midst and trying to get the saved to go to the Temple and participate in sacrifices. Paul was stating that it was impossible to "Fall Away"...essentially saying how can you fall away from a place that you have never been, i.e., these spies were not saved in the first place.

Logically.. Man is fallible. The standard for interpreting biblical scripture, starts with scripture. Often times one biblical Doctor contradicts another biblical Doctor on the very same topic, and that in the same denomination!

1. If man interprets scripture it is 50% right or 50%wrong "men make mistakes"

2. If we interpret scripture with scripture it can never contradict itself.

Just wanted to ask you a question RJ, even if it be hypothetical.

What if a person truly repented of his sins and accepted Jesus as Savior and later on (say maybe 5-6 yrs. later) falls into a specific sin of which he does not repent and continues in it and suddenly dies?

Just like the sheep in John 10, if you are following Jesus. Vs it is possible to stop following jesus, like Judas Iscariot, the 70 disciples, and so on.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Also in Galations 5:19-21 the A. Paul warns the church(saved) who will not enter into Heaven.

Absolutely, unequivocally, the kind of truth that Jesus said that will set you free!


Some other truths:


Born Again
Jesus Christ lives in you for all eternity
God will never leave or forsake you
Salvation is now
It is not of your works
God said that he would look at your sins no more
You bare his fruit not yours
Once saved always saved
Forgiveness comes from the cross
Faith is a gift and free

And the list goes on!

That is some smooth talking, ear tickling list!

2 Timothy 4:3-4 KJVS
[3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [4] And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

I rest assured that when He says

John 10:28 King James Version (KJV)

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Remember the story of the prodigals son in Luke 15. The son was under the fathers roof, under the fathers protection, but he decided to leave and choose his life of wild living and prostitutes. My question, did someone snatch the son from the fathers hand or did he willingly leave? No one snatched him from the father. But the prodigal did come back (repentance), and the father said "For this my son was dead, and is alive again" and they had a celebration. (Note. God Jesus Himself said these words, not some Stanly TV preacher, the son of God!)

No you can not *lose* it. You didn't earn it to lose it. It was a gift and grace from God, you didn't deserve it in the first place to not deserve it.

Can you back your opinion? Also not to mildly offend, but often times we are quick to trust every word our pastor tells us, but most importantly we must know the word of God for ourselves. Remember even the devil can quote scripture (Luke 4).

With all due love and respect, I don't think that this verse has anything to do with loosing your salvation. Not this verse or the entire chapter is about you maintaing your salvation, "if and only if" that is more the Law and legalism than anything. Look at verse 26:

26 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

God says that from the moment you are saved, His Spirt, Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ lives in you for eternity. God also says that he will never leave or foresake you. Again God says that Grace ( which also means salvation) is a gift. If it is a gift it is free. Now where in the Bible does God say that he will take his gift back for any reason, only man is capable of finding ways to loose what God gave him!

Plain ignorance?

Please scream legalism, works salvation, etc.. But that would put Ap. Paul and Jusus Christ under the same category, who left us with these teachings.
------------------------------------

Continue following Christ. It's worth it!

Check out this book on Amazon. A truly rich resource for pastors and the sincere Christian.

"The Believer's Conditional Security"
Eternal Security Refuted

 

[amadeus2]

I'm interested to hear why people who say we can lose salvation havent ever explained Ephesians 4:30 ? Atleast I've never heard explantion to this.

Is it possible that by disobedience or willingful sin , God takes back His holy spirit?
And we become dead?

"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." Eph 4:30

When my mother and my wife used to can fruit and vegetables the sealing of those jars was a critical part. If all of the steps were followed correctly the result would be fruit or vegetables good to eat for years to come. At point in time if the seal were broken by accident or on purpose the contents would begin to spoil and what was good food would have to be thrown away. That which had been saved would be lost.

The Holy Spirit does not force us to do anything, but if we follow the lead of the Holy Spirit, we can do all things through Christ. We are sealed, yes, but as with the canned fruit and vegetables we are still in control. We can still override or limit the power of God (Psalm 78:41) [grieve the Holy Spirit or quench the Holy Spirit (I Thess 5:19)] because when men were created they were given the authority to obey God or not. We see which way Adam and Eve chose. That authority to choose has never been taken away from us. The sacrifice of Jesus did not remove that choice. The gift of the Holy Spirit did not override our right choose to serve God or mammon.

God through His Son opened up for us a way where there was no way, but the choice has always remained our to walk on the highway of holiness or not. God wants us to make to the end with Him and the Way is open for those who are properly prepared and submissive. Jesus paid the price to make that Way, but we have to walk in it to the end of our course.

 

[Mr Popples]

I have asked this question for years to many with still no real answer so I was shocked to read (Jerimiah7) ask it.....I am that person you are all talking about and came back here maybe 2 or 3 years later to see if I could feel god after turning my back years ago..
I think you can get unsaved I did

 

[rag4aCrown]

Romans 11:21,22

And, remember the foolish virgins who went back to the world.

And so many more...

 

[amadeus2]

I have asked this question for years to many with still no real answer so I was shocked to read (Jerimiah7) ask it.....I am that person you are all talking about and came back here maybe 2 or 3 years later to see if I could feel god after turning my back years ago..
I think you can get unsaved I did

It may be a negative testimony but it is a real possibility. We can cast aside what we have gained. I also did this once in a very serious way. Fortunately, God was merciful and did not finally reject me. He allowed me to come back to Him.