Believers That Have Gone Astray Are Still Saved

[Alley Oop]

Yep...we have more apostate denominations today than ever, even apostates who sit at home all day long on Christian forums who don't go to church or even try to practice walking with God, mostly due to belief in false doctrines.

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Thus, "I shall kill them with death" - Revelation 2:23.
Jesus kills billions of christians with death, because they "live after the flesh" (Rom 8:13).
Fun to watch all the dense darkness on this site too.

 

[GodB4Us]

Thus, "I shall kill them with death" - Revelation 2:23.
Jesus kills billions of christians with death, because they "live after the flesh" (Rom 8:13).
Fun to watch all the dense darkness on this site too.

His disciples were martyred but that does not mean they were living after the flesh when they had died.

 

[Daniel L.]

they are known as the vessels unto dishonor BUT STILL in His House.

No, they are cast down to outter darkness:

Matthew 22:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

"He shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven". This doesn't mean they are in the kingdom of Heaven, they are simply called: "the least" there. They could very well be in outter darkness, and be called the least in the kingdom of Heaven. They don't have to be in heaven to be called the least there. So, don't try to fit sinners in Heaven, it is not their place. Don't try to fit darkness in Jesus, it is impossible. And don't try to justify the wicked, it is and abomination to the LORD.

 

[Daniel L.]

His disciples were martyred but that does not mean they were living after the flesh when they had died.

His disciples weren't killed by Jesus. When Jesus kills, He kills body and soul, men only kill the body. And Jesus only kills the wicked in righteous judgement, so how could you even try to imply that His righteous disciples were killed by Him?

Exodus 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

 

[Shaolin]

Thus, "I shall kill them with death" - Revelation 2:23.
Jesus kills billions of christians with death, because they "live after the flesh" (Rom 8:13).
Fun to watch all the dense darkness on this site too.

Actually, to be more precise, AO...He allows those who think they are Christians, but who are not, to die. Someone who calls himself a Christian, but who does not walk in obedience to God, is only playing church...they are not real Christians.

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[Shaolin]

His disciples were martyred but that does not mean they were living after the flesh when they had died.

This is yet another example that you cannot read and understand Scripture. The reference AO gave has nothing to do with martyrs, it has to do with weeding out the weeds from the grain. Those who only play church are not saved. God does not play around...which is why we have so many warnings in Scripture that unless we who are saved walk in obedience to Him, and cultivate a living relationship with Him, WILL end up in hell...despite the nonsense that you keep trying to convince us of otherwise.

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[Shaolin]

When all of the Biblical facts are taken together topically, Scripture teaches that a saved person can cut himself off from Christ and end up in eternal fire, despite the "war games" certain people try to make with Scripture. God does not contradict Himself, ever...therefore, when a person tries to take a passage that apparently contradicts another, that person demonstrates that he/she doesn't know how to read and interpret Scripture. All Scripture harmonizes with all other Scripture, so when your interpretation of a text directly contradicts a multitude of other passages, you are wrong...not Scripture.

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[GodB4Us]

Actually, to be more precise, AO...He allows those who think they are Christians, but who are not, to die. Someone who calls himself a Christian, but who does not walk in obedience to God, is only playing church...they are not real Christians.

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This is yet another example that you cannot read and understand Scripture. The reference AO gave has nothing to do with martyrs, it has to do with weeding out the weeds from the grain. Those who only play church are not saved. God does not play around...which is why we have so many warnings in Scripture that unless we who are saved walk in obedience to Him, and cultivate a living relationship with Him, WILL end up in hell...despite the nonsense that you keep trying to convince us of otherwise.

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Read about this prophesied falling away from the faith;

2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Did you read all that? Saved believers going astray in this iniquity are at risk of damnation ( becoming vessels unto dishonor in His House per my belief )

Now this is what I want you to continue to read that reproves what you believe because Paul is still addressing those that went astray & no longer walking after the traditions taught of us in the next chapter.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

Paul still acknowledged them as brothers still rather than what you are doing in calling them not real Christians. You are to judge in Christ's love by correcting others that have gone astray; not by condemning Christians as if they were never saved or fake believers or whatever. Jesus said not to despise the little ones.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Although Jesus said He will get those lost sheep, He did teach excommunication for the unrepentant, just as He will excommunicate those not abiding in Him from the Marriage Supper in Heaven, but He will still get those lost sheep even if they do get denied by Him for being in iniquity ( Matthew 7:21-23 & Luke 13:24-30 ) because He still abides in them even in former believers ( 2 Tmothy 2:11-13 ) as He will lose none of all the Father has given Him ( John 6:39-40 ) even though left behind because He is the Good Shepherd & He will get every one of His lost sheep, the ones that did not follow His voice but a stranger's voice ( John 10:1-8 ) as they will hear His voice literally in serving Him as the King of kings after their resurrection as vessels unto dishonor in His House which is after the great tribulation. John 10:14-16 & Revelation 20:1-6

 

[Shaolin]

Your almost funny, if it wasn't such a sad case. You directly contradict and ignore or explain away clear passages that tell you to your face that a person who was once saved can end up in eternal fire. Scripture tells us that we are saved in part by believing the truth...since you refuse to believe the truth, and since a little leaven corrupts the whole batch...it is safe to say that it appears like you won't make it because of the corruption you fill your doctrines with.

I do hope that you make it, but by your own mouth, it isn't looking too good for you.

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[GodB4Us]

Your almost funny, if it wasn't such a sad case. You directly contradict and ignore or explain away clear passages that tell you to your face that a person who was once saved can end up in eternal fire. Scripture tells us that we are saved in part by believing the truth...since you refuse to believe the truth, and since a little leaven corrupts the whole batch...it is safe to say that it appears like you won't make it because of the corruption you fill your doctrines with.

I do hope that you make it, but by your own mouth, it isn't looking too good for you.

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How about this clear passage for why you are not applying that other verse rightly so?

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

There is a casting out as far as for not abiding in Him & His words ( see verse 6 in John 15:1-8 & & Luke 12:40-49 & 1 Corinthians 9:24-27 ) from attending the Marriage Supper for being workers of iniquity ( Luke 13:24-30 ) as reprobate or "disqualified", but there is no loss of salvation as they are still part of His kingdom, but as the least or as vessels unto dishonor in His House for not departing from iniquity by His grace & by His help before the Bridegroom had come.

How else can these "least" that do & teach heresy, a work of the flesh and hence iniquity, and still be in His kingdom of Heaven as the "least"?

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

How else can there be vessels unto dishonor still be in His House for not departing from iniquity, including former beleivers, when the vessels unto honor in His House are the ones that did depart from iniquity?

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Think of this in this way, since our confidence is in Him to finish what He has started per Philippians 1:6 then this is why He is faithful that He still abides in those unrepentant saints & former believers that are left behind because He will finish His work in them also by burning their works that deny Him off that foundation which He has laid for why they are saved ( see verse 15 in 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 ) so they shall be partakers of His holiness. Hebrews 12:3-10

As it is, John 6:39 is why He shall lose none of all the father has given Him even though there is a casting out but not out of His kingdom as we see in Matthew 25:1-13 regarding how the foolish virgins are the kingdom of God along with the wise or prudent virgins but were too late for the reception with the Bridegroom, but still part of that kingdom of heaven.

 

[Shaolin]

"As it is, John 6:39 is why He shall lose none of all the father has given Him even though there is a casting out but not out of His kingdom"

Evidently you can't read simple English...it says, "that I SHOULD lose nothing," not, "that I will lose nothing." This is truly telling...if you can't even understand simple English, how in the world do you expect anyone here to think you can understand Scripture with all of its twists and turns?

You have shot yourself in the feet so many times, you must be in a spiritual wheel chair...

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[GodB4Us]

"As it is, John 6:39 is why He shall lose none of all the father has given Him even though there is a casting out but not out of His kingdom"

Evidently you can't read simple English...it says, "that I SHOULD lose nothing," not, "that I will lose nothing." This is truly telling...if you can't even understand simple English, how in the world do you expect anyone here to think you can understand Scripture with all of its twists and turns?

You have shot yourself in the feet so many times, you must be in a spiritual wheel chair...

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Well if you are going to apply it that way, then you shot yourself in the foot as well. I can align the contrary passages by His grace & by His help, but only God can help you see it but I doubt you can in according to your application.

Matthew 25:1-13 KJV has the foolish virgins as of the kingdom of heaven along with the wise. It is for not being ready as out to the market getting filled with oil when the wise know they are filled with oil & thus ready, is why the foolish were not taking part of the wedding reception within that kingdom of heaven even though they are the kingdom of heaven. So they were cast out of the wedding reception with the Bridegroom but not cast out of the kingdom of heaven.

That is how Jesus loses none of all the Father has given Him and yet why many saved believers will not be found ready when the Bridegroom comes as Jesus has been warning His disciples on numerous occasions to watch & be ready always.

 

[Shaolin]

Well if you are going to apply it that way, then you shot yourself in the foot as well. I can align the contrary passages by His grace & by His help, but only God can help you see it but I doubt you can in according to your application.

Matthew 25:1-13 KJV has the foolish virgins as of the kingdom of heaven along with the wise. It is for not being ready as out to the market getting filled with oil when the wise know they are filled with oil & thus ready, is why the foolish were not taking part of the wedding reception within that kingdom of heaven even though they are the kingdom of heaven. So they were cast out of the wedding reception with the Bridegroom but not cast out of the kingdom of heaven.

That is how Jesus loses none of all the Father has given Him and yet why many saved believers will not be found ready when the Bridegroom comes as Jesus has been warning His disciples on numerous occasions to watch & be ready always.

"apply it THAT way?" What way are you implying...using the same nonsense handling of God's Word that YOU use? No, I don't do that. You continually try to make the foolish virgins parable spin to your plastic claim, but also continuously ignore the key part of the parable. "I don't know you," PERIOD! What happens to people who Jesus says He does not know? This...

Matthew 7:23
And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Luke 13:25-28
25 After the Master of the house rises up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside, knocking at the door saying, "Lord, open up to us!" He will answer and say to you "I do not know you, where have you been?"
26 Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.'
27 But He will say, "I tell you, I do not know you, where have you been?" Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity!"
28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out.

Anyone who Christ does not know personally, will be cast into the Lake of Fire for the rest of eternity. That is NOT a child of God like you claim. Your theology is all jacked up because you don't know how to read and interpret Scripture, you only read what you want to read that fits with your preconceived ideologies.

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[GodB4Us]

"apply it THAT way?" What way are you implying...using the same nonsense handling of God's Word that YOU use? No, I don't do that. You continually try to make the foolish virgins parable spin to your plastic claim, but also continuously ignore the key part of the parable. "I don't know you," PERIOD! What happens to people who Jesus says He does not know? This...

Matthew 7:23
And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Luke 13:25-28
25 After the Master of the house rises up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside, knocking at the door saying, "Lord, open up to us!" He will answer and say to you "I do not know you, where have you been?"
26 Then you will begin to say, 'We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.'
27 But He will say, "I tell you, I do not know you, where have you been?" Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity!"
28 In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out.

Anyone who Christ does not know personally, will be cast into the Lake of Fire for the rest of eternity. That is NOT a child of God like you claim. Your theology is all jacked up because you don't know how to read and interpret Scripture, you only read what you want to read that fits with your preconceived ideologies.

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Any former believer that denies Him, will be denied by Him. It does not matter if he was led astray like by that false science, the evolution theory, for why he denies Him now or he was offended by Christians or the church for why he is not a believer any more, He will deny those that deny Him. But, if you pay attention; though he does not believe in him any more, He is faithful because He still abides.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

The same goes for any saved believer found in iniquity as any iniquity is a work that denies Him for why He would deny them for being "workers of iniquity" per your reference of Matthew 7:23.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

That means He still abides in workers of iniquity even though He denies them but only because being found in that iniquity that denies Him is why He is denying them.

This is why "nevertheless" is written in regards to former believers that went astray because that foundation is still laid and that seal of adoption is not going any where.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

That is why 2 Timothy 2:10 was written as we seek the good of those that have gone astray to call them to depart from iniquity so they too can be received by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House which is that "eternal glory" that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus.

What makes a vessel. a vessel unto dishonor in His House? They did not depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom had come, but they are still in His House though denied & thus disqualified from the Mariage Supper in Heaven.

But still in His House to be resurrected later on after the great tribulation to be that vessel unto dishonor in His House which is a damnation in and of itself because they can never be that vessel unto honor when the door to the Marriage Supper is closed after the rapture event.

That is why there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth like Esau over the loss of his birth right for a meal, but even though the prodigal spent his inheritance and can never get it back, he will find that he is still son.

That is why God has to wipe the tears from their eyes of all those coming out of the great tribulation to make them stop weeping to get past that loss of not being partakers of the first fruit of the resurrection.. Revelation 7:9-17 KJV

Hopefully, the Lord is helping you to see the truth in His words as He has done for me, because otherwise, you are left explaining how His words support how I am rightly dividing the word of truth in aligning with your references.

 

[Shaolin]

Any former believer that denies Him, will be denied by Him. It does not matter if he was led astray like by that false science, the evolution theory, for why he denies Him now or he was offended by Christians or the church for why he is not a believer any more, He will deny those that deny Him. But, if you pay attention; though he does not believe in him any more, He is faithful because He still abides.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

The same goes for any saved believer found in iniquity as any iniquity is a work that denies Him for why He would deny them for being "workers of iniquity" per your reference of Matthew 7:23.

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

That means He still abides in workers of iniquity even though He denies them but only because being found in that iniquity that denies Him is why He is denying them.

This is why "nevertheless" is written in regards to former believers that went astray because that foundation is still laid and that seal of adoption is not going any where.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

That is why 2 Timothy 2:10 was written as we seek the good of those that have gone astray to call them to depart from iniquity so they too can be received by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House which is that "eternal glory" that comes with our salvation in Christ Jesus.

What makes a vessel. a vessel unto dishonor in His House? They did not depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom had come, but they are still in His House though denied & thus disqualified from the Mariage Supper in Heaven.

But still in His House to be resurrected later on after the great tribulation to be that vessel unto dishonor in His House which is a damnation in and of itself because they can never be that vessel unto honor when the door to the Marriage Supper is closed after the rapture event.

That is why there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth like Esau over the loss of his birth right for a meal, but even though the prodigal spent his inheritance and can never get it back, he will find that he is still son.

That is why God has to wipe the tears from their eyes of all those coming out of the great tribulation to make them stop weeping to get past that loss of not being partakers of the first fruit of the resurrection.. Revelation 7:9-17 KJV

Hopefully, the Lord is helping you to see the truth in His words as He has done for me, because otherwise, you are left explaining how His words support how I am rightly dividing the word of truth in aligning with your references.

Once again, you demonstrate that you can't understand Scripture. You consistently come back to the vessels in the house, and see it as something that it is not. Scripture does NOT contradict itself, anywhere, ever...and your false interpretation of those texts directly contradict what numerous other passages clearly teach. You prove that you don't have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you. If you did, He would be trying to point you into the right direction, but you can't hear His voice because He is not in you.

You delude yourself, you are not rightly dividing the Word of Truth, and I have demonstrate that fact over and over again and yet you still...being a bias defender rather than a truth seeker...reject it. Others have tried to show you where your theory is jacked up and you ignored them too. Apparently you can't put 2 and 2 together...because when everyone you tell this nonsense to tells you that you are wrong, and yet you still insist that you are correct...there's just no helping someone who, like the Pharisees, thinks they are right when they are not.

Have a good day.

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[GodB4Us]

Once again, you demonstrate that you can't understand Scripture. You consistently come back to the vessels in the house, and see it as something that it is not. Scripture does NOT contradict itself, anywhere, ever...and your false interpretation of those texts directly contradict what numerous other passages clearly teach. You prove that you don't have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you. If you did, He would be trying to point you into the right direction, but you can't hear His voice because He is not in you.

You delude yourself, you are not rightly dividing the Word of Truth, and I have demonstrate that fact over and over again and yet you still...being a bias defender rather than a truth seeker...reject it. Others have tried to show you where your theory is jacked up and you ignored them too. Apparently you can't put 2 and 2 together...because when everyone you tell this nonsense to tells you that you are wrong, and yet you still insist that you are correct...there's just no helping someone who, like the Pharisees, thinks they are right when they are not.

Have a good day.

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For the readers and this fellow believer's sake... attacking the poster without actually addressing the scriptures in rightly dividing the word of truth for what that scripture reference is really about avails no one.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Paul is giving an example of a former believer and yet he goes on to say in spite of that error overthrowing of that believer's faith, "nevertheless" that foundation stands sure as that seal is for why we are to call even former believers to depart from iniquity or else.

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

The "or else" is defined below as there are two kinds of vessels in His House as in 2 kinds of eternal inheritance.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

How does one be received as a vessel unto honor? By departing from iniquity by His grace & by His help.

21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Yet there are still vessels of dishonor in His House that did not depart from iniquity for why they are vessels of wood & earth, as those that were not ready as found not abiding in Him, will be disqualified and left behind from the rapture event to be resurrected after the great tribulation to be that vessel unto dishonor in His House, the vessels of wood & earth serving the King of kings on earth.

I do not see how any one can apply these words in any other way. The vessels unto dishonor are the ones that did not depart from iniquity before the Bridegroom had come ad because because of that foundation & seal, they are saved, but stripes will be coming for not being ready.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more. 49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

The Father will be doing the scourging as the stripes will insure after their resurrection after the great tribulation, they will not be doing that iniquity or iniquities any more in raising up the generations following them.

Hebrews 12:3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

That is the terror of the Lord spoken of for why we need to look to Jesus Christ as the author & finisher of our faith to help us to see and to lay aside every weight & sin daily les we become a castaway.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. 11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Hebrews 12:1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

1 Corinthians 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

So not a loss of salvation, but a loss of being partakers of the first fruit of the resurrection in being that vessel unto honor in His House at the rapture event to attend the Marriage supper in His honor and to His glory.

 

[Shaolin]

For the readers and this fellow believer's sake... attacking the poster without actually addressing the scriptures in rightly dividing the word of truth for what that scripture reference is really about avails no one.

This is almost funny...I don't attack you, I attack your false doctrines. I don't have to address the same texts over and over again when I already have demonstrated (not just shown) that what you claim is utter crap nonsense. But, nice try.

..

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

This is almost funny...I don't attack you, I attack your false doctrines. I don't have to address the same texts over and over again when I already have demonstrated (not just shown) that what you claim is utter crap nonsense. But, nice try.

..

I have only been here a couple of days and he has been copy pasting this same twisted doctrine to me non-stop. I tried to reason with him as well and he will not be corrected no matter how much scripture you post to prove he is wrong. I said the same thing you did, this is false doctrine .

I just told him a few minutes ago that I was done talking to him. There is no reasoning with him, it is a waste of time.

 

[GodB4Us]

For those that speak against OSAS.... when scripture seemingly opposes scripture, wisdom is needed to apply His words rightly.

Scripture below has Jesus testifying He will cast no one out, and how He will lose none of all the Father has given Him and how we are saved simply for having believed in Jesus Christ. Several promises of the Father's will written below.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

But we do have verses that testify to a casting out like verse 2 & 6 of John 15:1-8 for not abiding in Him as His disciple and being left behind to die with the unbelievers as they face that fire that comes on one third of the earth Luke 12:40-49 & Revelation 8:7 and the warning to the church at Thyatira to repent from iniquity or else be cast into the bed of the coming great tribulation in Revelation 2:18-25.

The answer can be seen with His help in the parable of the ten virgins in how they, the five foolish and the five wise, ARE the kingdom of Heaven but the foolish missed out on that wedding reception within that kingdom of Heaven for not being ready and yet still a part of that kingdom of Heaven in Matthew 25:1-13 KJV The weeping and gnashing of teeth can be seen as akin to Esau losing his birthright for a meal which would also be the same as the prodigal son giving up his inheritance for wild living, and although he can never get that inheritance back, spent as it was, he will find that he is still son for why he can come home.

So that is how you can align with Him, His words in John 6:37-40 for how He will not lose none of all the Father has given Him in spite of the casting out warned in scriptures, because they are cast out from the Marriage Supper for not being ready but not cast out of the kingdom of Heaven.

So trust Jesus Christ to have you ready as abiding in Him and His words so you are ready to go as well as pray for help to be willing to go by making sure you are not overcharged by the cares of this life that you do not want to go.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

 

[B-A-C]

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Some people believe that once you are in the kingdom you are "safe".

Matt 13:41; "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

Even Satan, and the fallen angels were once "in" the kingdom,

Jude 1:6; And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
Luke 10:18; And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

Ezek 28:13 "You were in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone was your covering: The ruby, the topaz and the diamond; The beryl, the onyx and the jasper; The lapis lazuli, the turquoise and the emerald; And the gold, the workmanship of your settings and sockets, Was in you. On the day that you were created They were prepared.
Ezek 28:14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:15 "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
Ezek 28:16 "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:17 "Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I put you before kings, That they may see you.

Even Christians will be judged.
1Pet 4:17; For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?