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Believers That Have Gone Astray Are Still Saved

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:


Now pay attention. If our confidence and faith is in Him to finish what He has started in us, then what do you think He will do for those left behind that went astray? He will finish His work even in those left behind. Amen?

This does not help you either, because when taking the context of this verse into consideration, Paul is NOT addressing salvation, he is telling them that God will complete the "good work" that He started through them...and what was that? The context tells us that Paul is addressing the good work of their supporting his ministry. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with salvation or eternal life or heaven, it has to do with the work of the ministry.

Again, you demonstrate that you follow false calvinistic doctrine and don't know how to read or interpret Scripture.

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I have only been here a couple of days and he has been copy pasting this same twisted doctrine to me non-stop. I tried to reason with him as well and he will not be corrected no matter how much scripture you post to prove he is wrong. I said the same thing you did, this is false doctrine .

I just told him a few minutes ago that I was done talking to him. There is no reasoning with him, it is a waste of time.

He has been this way on a thread i started as well. I have stopped responding to him altogether. False teachers are workers of satan, they can’t be reasoned with because there is a deceiving spirit behind all that or heresies would have stopped in the apostles’ time if reasoning with heretics would change their false doctrines.
 
This does not help you either, because when taking the context of this verse into consideration, Paul is NOT addressing salvation, he is telling them that God will complete the "good work" that He started through them...and what was that? The context tells us that Paul is addressing the good work of their supporting his ministry. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with salvation or eternal life or heaven, it has to do with the work of the ministry.

Again, you demonstrate that you follow false calvinistic doctrine and don't know how to read or interpret Scripture.

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It is not that he doesn’t know how to interpret Scriptures, it’s that he doesn’t have the Spirit of God in him. He listened to a deceiving spirit for too long and doesn’t want to change what he has been taught. Or maybe he is sent by Satan as a false teacher, there are many infiltrators in the early church who pretend to be Christians but teach heresies. I wouldn’t be surprised there will be more in these last days.
 
Whenever any one cares to address the scripture that reproves their belief as well as how they are applying their scripture to mean, rather than just dismiss them out of hand or saying it does not apply or saying that is not what that scripture is saying at all and yet leave it as empty of substance by not telling me what that scripture is really about.... you are coming across as the ones avoiding the issue at hand, because those references threatens your belief while affirming mine.

I can apply and have applied your references in according to my belief, but you still dodge rightly dividing the word of truth in regards to my references and instead just judge me and condemn me because that is all you can do.

I leave you to God because only God can cause the increase. I have placed some on Ignore because you are not discussing anything when you go to other scriptural references in order to deny the references I have shared with you as if scripture can go against scripture, when it cannot, therefore someone is avoiding rightly dividing the word of truth of the scriptural references that I have shared with you.

You say I keep repeating it and I say you keep avoiding rightly dividing the word of truth of what those scriptural references I have shared with you is really talking about by going to other scriptures in according to your beliefs.

So either God will work in you to provide answers for all those who ask and see why I am unmoved, then maybe He will help you be a better witness than just coming in here and sharing, rather, demanding your belief without discussing the scriptures at all.

But I got some members on Ignore for why I am stepping out so you can quit doling out judgments on me and start discussing scriptures with others of what I have shared to rightly divide the word of truth to prove your belief or be reproved by Him.

It is not on me to cause the increase but it is His ministry, and so when you guys are done beating your chest, in lording judgment over me, how about rightly divide the word of truth of those scriptures I have shared with you?

And thanks to all members that I have not put on Ignore for not doling out judgment even though you disagree with me, but I do point out that I still see avoidance of rightly dividing the word of truth of the scriptures I have shared.

So when you feel led by the Lord to have Him minister thru you to me in that regard in this iron sharpen iron ministry of His, I shall be thankful to the Lord for you. I am not perfect but I trust Him to perfect that which concerns me & that includes you too. I hope you all trust Him to continue His work in you in perfecting you as well and not just for me too.

1 Peter 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

The latter reference makes me think I should not put any one on Ignore, but He has shared enough trough me that I have to leave it to Him to cause the increase for I know I cannot convince any one of the truth in His words. When discussions becomes an argument, time to step away & I need His help to do that too.
 
Whenever any one cares to address the scripture that reproves their belief as well as how they are applying their scripture to mean, rather than just dismiss them out of hand or saying it does not apply or saying that is not what that scripture is saying at all and yet leave it as empty of substance by not telling me what that scripture is really about.... you are coming across as the ones avoiding the issue at hand, because those references threatens your belief while affirming mine.

Not sure about others but I did address the Scriptures you mentioned in my thread and how those verses are not to be interpreted the way you did. But you dismissed my explanation of those verses and never once addressed the verses I raised which clearly contradicts your beliefs. So at least to me, you are doing the very same things you accuse others are doing.

I can apply and have applied your references in according to my belief, but you still dodge rightly dividing the word of truth in regards to my references and instead just judge me and condemn me because that is all you can do.

No, you didn’t. What you are doing is applying double standards. All of us on this thread have attempted to apply your references according to our beliefs, but somehow only you are rightly dividing the word and we are not. Don’t you think that is pure arrogance if you think that highly of yourself and what you teach? If you never think you can be wrong about what you teach you already fall into Satan’s trap. I have changed my understanding of things before when I realised I was wrong. Are you willing to do that or do you think so highly of yourself?

Saying someone has a deceiving spirit is not condemnation. Saying someone is a false teacher isn’t condemnation. I say all these to expose the spirits behind your teachings. What condemns a person is the refusal to repent. If you repent of your false doctrines you will NOT be condemned. But so far you have stubbornly refused to repent.

I leave you to God because only God can cause the increase. I have placed some on Ignore because you are not discussing anything when you go to other scriptural references in order to deny the references I have shared with you as if scripture can go against scripture, when it cannot, therefore someone is avoiding rightly dividing the word of truth of the scriptural references that I have shared with you.

You say I keep repeating it and I say you keep avoiding rightly dividing the word of truth of what those scriptural references I have shared with you is really talking about by going to other scriptures in according to your beliefs.

So either God will work in you to provide answers for all those who ask and see why I am unmoved, then maybe He will help you be a better witness than just coming in here and sharing, rather, demanding your belief without discussing the scriptures at all.

But I got some members on Ignore for why I am stepping out so you can quit doling out judgments on me and start discussing scriptures with others of what I have shared to rightly divide the word of truth to prove your belief or be reproved by Him.

It is not on me to cause the increase but it is His ministry, and so when you guys are done beating your chest, in lording judgment over me, how about rightly divide the word of truth of those scriptures I have shared with you?

And thanks to all members that I have not put on Ignore for not doling out judgment even though you disagree with me, but I do point out that I still see avoidance of rightly dividing the word of truth of the scriptures I have shared.

So when you feel led by the Lord to have Him minister thru you to me in that regard in this iron sharpen iron ministry of His, I shall be thankful to the Lord for you. I am not perfect but I trust Him to perfect that which concerns me & that includes you too. I hope you all trust Him to continue His work in you in perfecting you as well and not just for me too.

1 Peter 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

The latter reference makes me think I should not put any one on Ignore, but He has shared enough trough me that I have to leave it to Him to cause the increase for I know I cannot convince any one of the truth in His words. When discussions becomes an argument, time to step away & I need His help to do that too.

You have a lot of hidden pride as a “teacher” covered up underneath a veil of reverence for God and a polite demeanour. But God sees through your heart, the Pharisees looked very holy on the outside but they had a lot of pride which they refused to repent of. If you deem that as judgment against you so be it. It’s not just you I’m addressing, any teacher who thinks he can never be wrong already has pride in his heart and that is when Satan turns such a person into a teacher of falsehood. I have left you to God as well, that is why I will not continue in any argument of Scriptures with you.

But then you will say I am avoiding things and not rightly dividing the word, that’s exactly what I mean. We do the same things you do, but only you are right and we are all wrong. That’s what I would call hypocrisy, pride and double standards.
 
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And if I sound demeaning or harsh it’s because I’m sick of what is happening in the world right now. Hearing false doctrines being taught as the truth certainly doesn’t help me alleviate that frustration.
 
It is not that he doesn’t know how to interpret Scriptures, it’s that he doesn’t have the Spirit of God in him. He listened to a deceiving spirit for too long and doesn’t want to change what he has been taught. Or maybe he is sent by Satan as a false teacher, there are many infiltrators in the early church who pretend to be Christians but teach heresies. I wouldn’t be surprised there will be more in these last days.

While I agree...a slight correction. He doesn't know how to read and interpret Scripture BECAUSE he does not have the Spirit...

1 Corinthians 2:13-14*
13 and which we impart not in teaching human wisdom but taught in words from the Spirit, comparing spiritual truths with one another to those who are spiritual, enlightened by the Holy Spirit.
14 But the natural man chooses not to receive the things of the Spirit of God because they are absurd to him; and he does not have the power to come to know them because they are only carefully and accurately examined by the assistance of the Holy Spirit.

..
 
Whenever any one cares to address the scripture that reproves their belief as well as how they are applying their scripture to mean, rather than just dismiss them out of hand or saying it does not apply or saying that is not what that scripture is saying at all and yet leave it as empty of substance by not telling me what that scripture is really about.... you are coming across as the ones avoiding the issue at hand, because those references threatens your belief while affirming mine.

I can apply and have applied your references in according to my belief, but you still dodge rightly dividing the word of truth in regards to my references and instead just judge me and condemn me because that is all you can do.

I leave you to God because only God can cause the increase. I have placed some on Ignore because you are not discussing anything when you go to other scriptural references in order to deny the references I have shared with you as if scripture can go against scripture, when it cannot, therefore someone is avoiding rightly dividing the word of truth of the scriptural references that I have shared with you.

You say I keep repeating it and I say you keep avoiding rightly dividing the word of truth of what those scriptural references I have shared with you is really talking about by going to other scriptures in according to your beliefs.

So either God will work in you to provide answers for all those who ask and see why I am unmoved, then maybe He will help you be a better witness than just coming in here and sharing, rather, demanding your belief without discussing the scriptures at all.

But I got some members on Ignore for why I am stepping out so you can quit doling out judgments on me and start discussing scriptures with others of what I have shared to rightly divide the word of truth to prove your belief or be reproved by Him.

It is not on me to cause the increase but it is His ministry, and so when you guys are done beating your chest, in lording judgment over me, how about rightly divide the word of truth of those scriptures I have shared with you?

And thanks to all members that I have not put on Ignore for not doling out judgment even though you disagree with me, but I do point out that I still see avoidance of rightly dividing the word of truth of the scriptures I have shared.

So when you feel led by the Lord to have Him minister thru you to me in that regard in this iron sharpen iron ministry of His, I shall be thankful to the Lord for you. I am not perfect but I trust Him to perfect that which concerns me & that includes you too. I hope you all trust Him to continue His work in you in perfecting you as well and not just for me too.

1 Peter 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

The latter reference makes me think I should not put any one on Ignore, but He has shared enough trough me that I have to leave it to Him to cause the increase for I know I cannot convince any one of the truth in His words. When discussions becomes an argument, time to step away & I need His help to do that too.

No, what you have done is dogmatically claimed things that directly contradict what Scripture as a whole teaches.

..
 
While I agree...a slight correction. He doesn't know how to read and interpret Scripture BECAUSE he does not have the Spirit...

1 Corinthians 2:13-14*
13 and which we impart not in teaching human wisdom but taught in words from the Spirit, comparing spiritual truths with one another to those who are spiritual, enlightened by the Holy Spirit.
14 But the natural man chooses not to receive the things of the Spirit of God because they are absurd to him; and he does not have the power to come to know them because they are only carefully and accurately examined by the assistance of the Holy Spirit.

..

And a teacher who teaches falsehood while sounding very pious and well-mannered is probably the most hard to distinguish for believers not rooted in the Word. People judge by appearances, but sometimes even the most pious and decent sounding people are actually deceivers.
 
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Example of opposing scriptural references for necessity to have His wisdom to align His words in truth. The above testifies that all the Father gives Him, He will not cast out but there is a different kind of casting out below for Him to lose none of all the Father has given Him in verse 39 above.

Luke 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all?
42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?
43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.
45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
49 I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

Notice how He still calls them His servants for being left behind? And they are getting stripes per the knowledge they had for not being ready and lesser stripes for lack of knowledge for not being ready but stripes they shall receive.

That means stripes for not being ready to go rather than stipes for not being saved.

Below, applies to that truth because the ten virgins ARE the kingdom of heaven but five were foolish for not being ready as found in iniquity and therefore He denies them for why they are left behind but still in that kingdom of heaven

Matthew 25:1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

The iniquity above is for believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit after a sign. It can start out with a sign of tongues which is assumed for private use when it is not the real God's gift of tongues & proceed to other signs the believers may be seduced into chasing after to receive, like slain in the spirit and holy laughter movement. It is in hypocrisy to receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation, let alone to seek to receive by a sign.

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

The iniquity below is doubting God's words that Jesus is the only way to come to God the Father by and we can only honor the Father by honoring only the Son; not the Holy Ghost because the Holy Ghost is leading us to honor the Son.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

John 5:
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

That is how the Son will judge for why many believers in the latter days are found in iniquity and are unable to get in, but they are still saved because that is where the vessels unto dishonor comes from that are in His House still for they shall be resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels of wood & earth, unlike the partakers of the first fruits of the resurrection at the rapture event where they are vessels unto honor in His House, vessels of gold & silver.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour,
sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

That is why OSAS is true because Jesus will lose none of all the Father has given Him but even though there is no casting out of His hand which is shared by the Father as well because we are always saved, but not every saved believer will be found abiding in Him for why there is an excommunication for being in iniquity that denies Him for why He denies them as in disqualified from attending the Marriage Supper but not cast out of His kingdom of Heaven.
 
I address what Godbe4Us posted for the sake of those who can hear.

Those verses Godbe4Us posted does NOT support a once saved always saved lie, but rather how God deals with backslidden believers who were not ready for the Bridegroom’s return. There isn’t even any indication in those verses that those backsliders will be saved. In fact what the verses do say is that the backsliders will be appointed their portions with the unbelievers. In other words, they will be treated the same way unbelievers are, that’s what the verses actually say. But Godbe4Us twisted those verses to support his false doctrine.

It is true that Jesus does not cast out those believers the Father gave to him, no one in truth will deny that. But that does NOT mean a believer cannot remove himself from the faith, which OSAS falsely claims.

How does a believer remove himself from the faith? Hebrews 10 is a stark example:

Hebrews 10:26-29 KJV
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

There are many verses like these which show that OSAS is a big fat lie, the variation of the same lie that the devil told to Eve in the Garden of Eden “Thou shall not surely die” even if they rebelled against God. The devil is telling the same lie today through OSAS that no believer will die/be separated from God even if they live like an unbeliever.

Godbe4Us has demonstrated over and over both on my thread and this thread that he teaches falsehood without repentance. Be warned
 
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