Join Us Today!

Join our non-denominational community with 10,000+ members and more than 50,000 monthly visitors today. Engage in bible discussions, studies, prayer support and friendly fellowship.

10 End Time Prophecies

Discussion in 'Evidence & Prophecy' started by Chad, Feb 10, 2004.

Random Thread
  1. Howdy Ya'll parden the interuption. I am obviously new here and am looking for a good place to land. I am wondering if this thread is a little over my head. Can ya point me in a good starting place or is this as good as any? I need to do some reading on this thread to catch up or can you fill me in more quickly?

    cakrw
     
  2. And I am sorry if I offended anyone, many times I do not write clearly, I sometimes jump arround too much when I write a post. I know when you learn something a certain way and many are in agreement to what you learn, when someone comes along and says something contrary to what you have been taught. Can be pretty upsetting and I do understand that, I have been there.
    Thats why all I ask is to seek the Holy Spirit for guidance.

    Jesus is Lord
     
  3. Hi sister cakrw: Welcome to Talk Jesus forums.

    Might as well read the whole tread, as it might of been derailed a few times If you want to start a new tread just use the main prophecy forum.

    God bless
     
  4. #84 Fellowservant, Apr 15, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2008
    Not a problem brother, and yes use the spirit and the word, they both agree.

    God bless
     
  5. I can understand you point of disagreement. At the time Daniel wrote the prophecy he didn't have the history we have today. What I am posting is to my satisfaction what Daniel prophecied about. I would appreciate your comments.

    Fellowservant:

    The scriptures in Daniel chapter 8 that you posted (8:23-8:24 & 8:25) caused me to have to study the history of the Grecian Empire and the Jewish encpclopedias.


    Da 8:23
    And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king
    of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
    In vs.21 we can understand that the kingdom spoken of is the Grecian Empire. Alexander
    Is already dead (a transgressor) and Antiochus IV Epiphanes (a transgressor) is the king of this part of the Grecian Empire. He fought campaigns in Egypt and almost conquered them until Roman Government forced him to cease aggression against Egypt. Then he turned his aggression to the east against what is now Iraq and Iran after he had stolen the treasures of the temple in Israel and destroyed many people (A king of fierce Countenance).
    Antiochus was a man of subterfuge. He tried to change the society of the people of Israel
    to a Hellenistic type society. History tell of the deceit and cunning in trying to bring this about.
    He even use a writer to compose a document that deceived God people and changed some to the
    writing of the scripture. I think that this is what Daniel was speaking of in the portion about
    understanding dark sentences. The evil way of accomplishing your purpose.
    Da 8:24
    And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy
    wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
    By his cunning he deceived even the high priest and many of the priestly tribe. He gave concessions to the Samaritans and they named their temple after some Greek character. He gained much of his might by flattery and other means. He destroyed much of Jerusalem, many buildings and tore down walls, etc. He prospered by taxes and stealing anything of value to support his warfare against neighbors. He always practised subterfuge and cunning in everything. He destroyed thousands of Gods chosen people during his reign of 11 years.
    There are several articles on Artiocus IV Epiphanes on the web and Josephus works has recorded the events.
    Da 8:25
    And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
    By his evil and devious way, the craft he practised, he was able to cause things to prosperfor himself.
    In one account I have read in history Antiochus proclaimed himself as senior God.
    He magnified himself to be supreme. He was peaceful until he gained the power by the people who believed him. After he defiled the temple the Jews revolted and under the Maccabees they
    defeated the military force left by Antiocus every time they were sent against them.
    Finally Antiochus decided to return to Israel and destroy them. I believe this is where he stands up against the Prince of Princes. A terrible illness struck him and he died in Persia (Iran).
    He was broken by God, no man’s hand had anything to do with destroying him.
    I will try posting a page from history on the web showing the method used to alter the Holy Scripture. I hope I am able to do this.

    My personal study. I hope this help you in your studies of this portion of the scriptures.
    May our Lord Jesus continue to bless you. Sonnyd




    Antiochus and the Jews
    According to the account of 1 Maccabees, the High Priests at Jerusalem appointed by Antiochus were involved in systematically changing the traditions of the Jews that were based on the laws of Moses, to make them conform to Greek beliefs. A gymnasium was constructed in Jerusalem, and instead of learning their ancient law, the priests engaged in wrestling contests in the Greek fashion, which meant they were naked. Those who were circumcised endeavoured to conceal it. A general history of the reign of Antiochus IV is given by Morkholm.
    Antiochus' program of Hellenization also involved altering the scriptures. Greek cosmology was introduced into the Hebrew scriptures. The nature of the changes which were made at this time were described in Daniel's prophecy, in chapter 8. This prophecy, written by Daniel in ancient Babylon, depicted the rise of the empire of Alexander the Great, the division of his kingdom into four parts after his death, and the emergence of a remarkable "little horn" which grew up to assault the stars of heaven.

    Critical scholars have assumed it would be impossible for Daniel to have so accurately foretold future events, so they have invented an unknown Jewish writer, contemporary with Antiochus IV, who represented himself as a prophet who lived centuries before, and who wrote history rather than prophecy. But if this were true, the author of the work must have been a very clever person indeed. He not only managed to convince his contemporaries the book was centuries old, but his message, intended for interpretation in a future generation, reveals the fraudulent introduction of the Greek cosmology in the Hebrew scriptures by Antiochus Epiphanes!


    Antiochus managed to change the cosmology believed in by subsequent generations. He caused the truth about the earth's constitution to be "cast to the ground," indeed. The crust of the earth, made on the second day of creation week, was identified with heaven, by the addition of the phrase "and God called the firmament Heaven," in Genesis 1:8. Before this time, the term "raqia" or firmament referred to the earth's rocky crust. This was expressed in the prophecy of Daniel 8 by the figure of a little horn, depicting Antiochus IV, exulting himself to the stars, and casting them to the earth, along with heaven itself. The raqia (firmament) became identified with heaven in the scripture, by certain alterations to key passages which involved locating the stars in the raqia or firmament, and identifying the raqia (or firmament) with heaven. Thus heaven was identified with the earth's crust! So heaven, and the stars, could be said to have been "cast to the earth". A fraud was successfully perpetrated, one that was to endure for more than two thousand years before its exposure.

    Daniel's prophecy also indicates the "tamiyd" would be taken away. This word is rendered "daily sacrifice" in the KJV. The word "sacrifice" is shown italicized so was not in the original scriptures in verses 11-13, and probably does not belong. It was added by the KJV translators in an attempt to clarify the passage. The reference is to something "continual" or "perpetual," and it may depict the daily rotation of the earth about its axis. The earth's rotation is "continual" and "perpetual," as well as "constant" and "daily," all words which have been suggested as the meaning of "tamiyd." The knowledge of the earth's rotation was extinguished in the realm of Antiochus. Amongst the Jewish people it was suppressed, perhaps by alterations to the scriptures, such as the addition of the phrase "the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved" in Psalm 93:1 and again in Psalm 96:10. These phrases were cited against Galileo centuries later as evidence that his teachings about the earth's rotation about its axis and its orbit around the sun were unscriptural.

    Another effect of the corruptions to the scripture introduced under Antiochus was that the Genesis account seemed to say the creation of the stars was subsequent to the formation of the earth. Yet there are many indications in scripture that the heavens were made before the earth, as the heavens are mentioned first in passages which paraphrase the events of Creation Week. Examples are Exodus 20:11, Nehemiah 9:6, Psalm 136:5-6, Isaiah 42:5, Isaiah 45:18. In scripture, when heaven and earth are mentioned together, heaven is generally mentioned first, and it was also created first. Jesus also followed this rule when he referred to heaven as God's throne, the earth as his footstool, as we read in Matthew 5:33-37.

    The true order of events in creation week seems to be, first the heavens were created, with all the stars, and galaxies; on the second day the earth's crust was formed in the midst of the waters, the land rose above the waters on the third day, and the sun, moon and planets of the solar system were made on the fourth day.
     
  6. Da 12:4
    But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end:

    Fellowservant: Do you think that this portion of the 4th verse could be interperted as "stop writting, seal the book so that no more will be added to it from now to the end of time".

    I am sorry that my last posting was so long. I need my Brothers and Sisters in the Lord to read my study and help correct where I am wrong.

    Again Daniel was told to shut up this vision for it would be a long time before it came to pass.

    Da 8:26
    And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

    Blessed be the name of our God. sonnyd
     
  7. #87 Fellowservant, Apr 16, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2008

    Antiochus? i deal with this when speaking with Preterist, they believe he committed the abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel. I think if this did happen it is likely a type of what is to come, again history repeats itself. In Daniel chapter 8 we see the little horn, many believe this to be the antichrist. When the vision is being explained somewhat to Daniel, this little horn becomes the king of fierce countenance who attacks the saints, and destroys with peace and so on.

    This little horn cast the truth to the ground, and also some of the host of heaven, Rev 12 is where satan is cast down to the earth and his angels. I don't see Antiochus fullfilling this prophecy, only a type of it. Plus it mentions an transgression of desolation here as well, the abomination of desolation is yet future, Jesus says so himself, long after Antiochus suppossidly commited it. See Matthew 24:15 and Mark 13:14. So my conclusion is that this little horn, and king of fierce countenance are one and the same, the coming man of sin that Paul refers to in 2Th 2:3

    It says it will not be understood till the end of time. Hence the saying (Ie many shall run to and fro and knowledge of this will increase) I don't believe he is referring to no more writing in the book, its all there. Hes referring to shut up the knowledge, of what has already been written in the books. And stop trying to figure it out.

    But yes he is to stop the writing, but not the understanding. Also the understanding was not for Daniel, but for who ever would be here at the time of the end.

    God bless
     
  8. So do you think that we are in the end times?
     
  9. #89 Maureen, Apr 17, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2008
    According the teaching I listened to last night in church, yes.
    It was titled 'The Signs of the Times'

    What was brought out lasted 2half hours, couldn't begin to go into it all.
    But scripture was used as refernce to everything that is happening under our very noses.
    Matt 24 v 37.But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    National Sign = The Jews
    Deuteronomy 28 1-15 regarding the Blessings,
    Deuteronomy 28 15-25 regarding the curses (scattering)
    God scattered them around the world.

    Social SignGenesis 6 v 5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil.
    It was laid down how society as whole is behaving badly, the avoidance of marraige just having children out of wedlock.
    il continually.

    Political Sign The Nations
    Politics are in a turmoil today.

    Diabolical Sign Timothy 4 v 1-3
    Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

    Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

    Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

    Speaking of the devil, that Hitler also was, as he was linked to an occult society.

    Ecclesiastical Sign The Church
    Then Apostasy was dealt with, a falling away.
    A tremendous departure from the truth, a false church emerging.
    There is one church at the begining of the N.T. and at the end there are two churches one is the true church the other the false church.
    off the Ecumenical Church, it was said if your in it, get out of it and stay out of it.

    there is a spiritual apathy among Christians
    The Lord said, Rev. 3 v 15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
    Rev 3 v 16
    So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

    It was as if the Lord Jesus is at the threshold of the door.
     
  10. #90 Fellowservant, Apr 17, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2008
    Its possible, we have Matthew chapter 24 as a guide for end time events and signs. I wouldnt go and run down the street hollering the world is coming to an end just yet J/K, but i would watch and pray about it. Daniel says the wise will understand, and turn many to righteousness at that time.

    God has been known to show signs and wonders about the end times, just to get people to repent. Although it really wasn't the end of time. (Ex: Peter and the prophecy of Joel, on the day of Pentecost) but the thing to remember is that the end of time is approaching no matter what.

    So i would use all of Matthew 24 as a guide, in order to know whether or not the return of Christ and our redemption was imminent. Theres no sense in saying this is the end of days when it isnt, that would just make us false prophets to the ones we said it too. Remember that false prophets and false Christs will show up here as well. But you will know them (Prophets) by their fruits.

    2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    God bless
     
  11. #91 sonnyd, Apr 17, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2008
    I think that chapter 8 of Daniel has been fulfilled and things pertaining to that period of time has been recorded in history. By studing history the things mentioned in this chapter are found even to the host of heaven and the stars being cast to the ground. I Think the knowledge of this prophecy can be gained by study. I still am looking for comment on
    bible study I posted earlier in this thread.
    Da 8:10
    And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.

    I told of this and other things in the bible study I posted in this thread a few days ago.

    I do agree with you in that this isn't the Abonimation of Desolation that our Lord spoke of in Matthew 24. That will happen during the reign of the antichrist.

    If you are asking me about predestination, the only thing I believe is that we are predestined to heaven or hell but the choice of which one is for the individual to decide.

    Jos 24:15
    ¶ And if it seem evil unto you to serve the
    LORD, choose you this day whom ye will
    serve; whether the gods which your
    fathers served that were on the other side
    of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites,
    in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and
    my house, we will serve the LORD.

    We have to choose.
     
  12. There is no doubt that Daniel 8 speaks about Alexander the Great and
    Antiochus Epiphanes, but I also believe that the Holy Spirit parallels what happened in that event to how the rise of the anti-christ kingdom will come about.

    Nation shall rise against nation

    One shall be conquering and to conquer, winning the war.

    Daniel 8:8
    8.Therefore the male goat grew very great; but when he became strong, the large horn was broken, and in place of it four notable ones came up toward the four winds of heaven.

    And shall reign over the kings of the earth.
    There will be famine.
    Disease and earthquakes.
    There will be persecution of the saints.(Matthew 24)

    Then the Lion, the Bear, the Leopard, and the beast with the ten horns rise from the sea. (Revelation 13)

    The ten horns burn that great city that reigns over the kings of the earth with fire.
    Revlelation 17
     
  13. no doubt Daniel has great prophesy.

    I am off tonight to a Study/Talk in church delving into the book of Revelations.
    so I will come back with notes, God willing.
     
  14. #94 Fellowservant, Apr 19, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2008
    I have something for you to read that is interesting, tell me what you think? Read Daniel chapter 11 and 12 in their context, and remember they are the same vision, there was no such thing as chapter and verse then. Whats your thoughts on this?

    God bless
     
  15. Hi Fellowservant, I believe the prophecy to be in the same style, using Alexander and Antiochus as an example historically to the rise of the anti-christ, some parts of Daniel 11 are historically accurate concerning Antiochus, yet other verses obviously describe the anti-christ.

    For instance in verse 23

    Daniel 11:23
    23."And after the league is made with him he shall act deceitfully, for he shall come up and become strong with a small number of people.

    This would indicate to me, that the ten horns are not ten kingdoms, but actually ten people that rise up and seize the fourth kingdom.
    The anti-christ and his nine followers.

    This can be verified.

    Revelation 17:12
    12.And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
     
  16. This is getting very interesting: I think I will sit back and learn.
    May our Lord bless.
     
  17. #97 Fellowservant, Apr 20, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2008
    Yes i see this as well somewhat, the image that Nebuchadnezzar seen in a dream was interpreted by Daniel, ive noticed that only the feet and ten toes were hit by the stone, that was cut out of a mountain without hands, (Ie Christ?) but not the rest of the image. And the legs of iron according to some was the Roman Empire. Which leads me to believe that this last one, is not the Roman Empire, but came somehow from it. We call it the ten toed Kingdom of Daniel, agree? But it doesn't really matter, there will be these ten kings, just before the stone hits this images feet and fills the whole earth. Then God sets up a kingdom that will last forever. Daniel chapter 2



    Then there are seven kings according to the angel of revelation, but at the time of John, five had fallen, one was, the other was not yet come, and when he did come he didnt last long, and so on. And the last one the eighth one, was of the seven, but went into perdition. Paul mentions a son of perdition, revelation mentions one as well. (This eighth King). Therefore i believe this is the anti-christ (man of sin), as it says he was, and is not, but yet is. A resurrected man (King), it also says he had a deadly wound by a sword, but did live.

    Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

    Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.


    Rev 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
    Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
    Rev 17:9 And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
    Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
    Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
    Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
    Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
    Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.

    So ive come to the conclusion that the beast of revelation is going to be a resurrected man ( King of old) because of the above scriptures. The false prophet is also called a beast in revelation as well. This is why when men see him (the first beast) they say who is like the beast, who can make war with him. As he will likely be immortal, and very powerful, almost like Christ after his resurrection. But thats my interpretation as i see it so far. Remember this beast is not a kingdom, he has one, and he also has a seat in it.

    Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

    This will be a great deception on men who loved not the truth, as Paul says concerning this in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12


    But this is just my interpretation, always leave room for another one, as long as it makes sense and doesn't contradict scripture.


    God bless
     
  18. #98 Rog, Apr 20, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2008
    Yes, the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit.
    And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
    And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

    Five have fallen:
    Julius Caesar
    Augustus
    Tiberius
    Caligula
    Claudius

    One is:
    Nero

    And one is to come:
    anti-christ

    And the eighth?
    Many scholars have speculated about whom this eight king is, according to the word, the eighth king is of the seven kings.
    And his number is 666.
    Using the Hebrew gematria, which is the number system of the Hebrew language, Nero is only one of the seven that equates to 666.

    Another interesting thing the Lord showed me, was in Daniel 9, it speaks of the prince of the people destroying the city and the temple.


    Daniel 9:26-27
    26."And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; and the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, and till the end of the war desolations are determined.
    27.Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate."

    Here we have the prince of the people, after Messiah has been cut off, which after the resurrection of our precious Lord was Nero, but then in the next verse he makes a covenant for 7 years but then engages in the abomination of desolation after 3 1/2 years.

    Historically, Nero did not do this, so it must be speaking of a future king.


    Daniel 7:7-8
    7."After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong. It had huge iron teeth; it was devouring, breaking in pieces, and trampling the residue with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.
    8."I was considering the horns, and there was another horn, a little one, coming up among them, before whom three of the first horns were plucked out by the roots. And there, in this horn, were eyes like the eyes of a man, and a mouth speaking pompous words.


    Revelation 13:3
    3.And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast.

    If we were to lay all of this on the table it becomes apparent that the ten kings rise up to power, they destroy Harlot Babylon, three of the kings conspire to kill the anti-christ, realizing the guy is out of his mind, Satan calls Nero from the pit of hell to take over the anti-christs body and resume his destruction, then the three conspiritors are put to death.

    Then the time of Jacobs trouble begins.

    Remember:

    Daniel 9:24
    24."Seventy weeks(Shib' iym Shabua' - Figuratively Seventy Seven) are determined for your people and for your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make reconciliation for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy.

    Daniel 9:24 and 9:25 are actually two prophecies that both depict when our Lord Jesus will be riding through Jerusalem on an Equine.

    We do not know the DAY or the HOUR, but brothers and sisters we are VERY close.
     
  19. #99 Fellowservant, Apr 21, 2008
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2008
    I see we are basicly on the same page brother Rog. Its interesting stuff, and it can't be interpreted, unless its interpreted as a whole. What i mean is, all of scripture needs to be used to come to a good conclusion on these prophecies. Not just the book of revelation.

    Keep up the good work brother, you as well sunnyd:)

    God bless
     
  20. Wow, look at #1 on the list and today's headlines! :shock:
     

Share This Page

Users Who Have Read This Thread (Total: 0)