Mark 1:8- I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the holy spirit.
9- At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan.
10- Just as Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the spirit descending on him like a dove.
11- And a voice came from heaven: "You are my son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

Now for those of us that have actually read the Bible thru many times, and have relied on this spirit to guide us- we KNOW it to simply be, as Gabriel told Mary- "the POWER of the Most High God".
But not when we blindly believed what the Clergy taught us; that the Holy Spirit was a ...GHOST
(altho they avoid that term now- but teach the SAME THING!), a third God of the Triune Godhead...)

Think on what happened. Jesus KNEW his Father- God- approved. So God both spoke, and had the
spirit SEEN for a witness to all that Jesus was the REAL Messiah- for many False ones had appeared, making that claim.

Now- if God wanted all to know He and 'Them' as the Trinity- why did He have the Holy Spirit take the form of a DOVE, and not a person?
Can you imagine Jesus appearing like that now? A dove leading angels?

It DIDN'T; John describes it as being LIKE a dove.
That's the shape he compared this Glowing Light to; doves shimmer white in the sunlight.
It WASN'T the Third God sent by the First God to the Second God!
Otherwise, like angels (and Christ after his resurrection) - it WOULD have appeared in the form of a person, as well!
So, God had it manifest in this way so all could know IT WAS an IT; His Power. At pentecost it appears "like" tongues of flame- not as little faces!

The holy spirit ALWAYS is manifest as POWER!

The holy (clean) spirit (breath) of God!

Question said:

According to the Bible- Jehovah used His son to create everything!

Click to expand...

Where does it say that in Genesis 1?

If God is/are the Supreme beings, all "Co-Equal", how do the trinnies see THIS?-

Mark 3:28 -Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven all their sins and all the blasphemies they utter.
29- But whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin."

Was Jesus saying it's less of a sin to Blaspheme him, or 'God-the -Father'?
If the Trinity was real, and they were "co-equal", it would be the same for all 3!
In Matthew he added that their lies about himself would be forgiven too- but NOT the spirit!

Was the "Holy Ghost" the most powerful of the 3 'Gods/Beings/Persons/Natures'?
Of course not; blaspheming against the holy spirit was doing so against the One acting thru it: Jehovah, the God of Jesus Christ!

B-A-C said:

Where does it say that in Genesis 1?

Click to expand...

Jesus Christ was not yet revealed.
Buuuuut, we see that HERE!

Heb 1:1- In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets;
2- but in these last days He has spoken to us by a son, whom He appointed the heir of all things, through whom also He created the world.

The holy spirit is AGAIN shown to be the POWER of God, rather than a Nameless, Faceless 'Ghost-God':

Mark 5: 25- And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years.
26- She had suffered a great deal under the care of many doctors and had spent all she had, yet
instead of getting better she grew worse.
27- When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak,
28- because she thought, "If I just touch his clothes, I will be healed."
29- Immediately her bleeding stopped and she felt in her body that she was freed from her suffering.
30- At once Jesus realized that >>> POWER <<<< had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, "Who touched my clothes?"
31- "You see the people crowding against you," his disciples answered, "and yet you can ask, 'Who touched me?' "
32- But Jesus kept looking around to see who had done it.

Mark 6:55- They ran throughout that whole region and carried the sick on mats to wherever they heard he was.
56- And wherever he went into villages, towns or countryside they placed the sick in the marketplaces. They begged him
to let them touch even the edge of his cloak, and all who touched him were healed.

That Power was the holy spirit.
He didn't have a fellow God do the healing.
It was the POWER from God, the holy spirit that enabled him to!

Mark 8:38- If any of you are ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of you when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."

In his FATHER'S glory.
The glory GIVEN him BY his Father- not in his own, as the mythical 'God-the-son'.

Jesus ALWAYS referred to his God & Father as SOMEONE ELSE he was subject to!

Mark 10: 17- As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him.
"Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
18- "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good except God alone."

Jesus said only his God is truly good!
But WAIT! They say he IS God!
So God isn't good- but only God is?????
Jesus was referring to the One (not THREE) that he called the "Only True God".

Jesus NEVER desired to glorify or even justify himself- but ONLY his God and Father!

Mark 11:7- And they brought the colt to Jesus, and cast their garments on him; and he sat upon him.
8-And many spread their garments in the way: and others cut down branches off the trees, and strawed them in the way.
9-And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord ["Jehovah" in Hebrew - the Koine Greek had no version of it] :
10- Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord [Jehovah in Hebrew- the Koine Greek had no version of it]: Hosanna in the highest.

In this example; they cry praises from the Psalms ("name of Jehovah", not "the LORD" in Hebrew)
referring to Jesus as being FROM God... NOT from Himself/Themselves."Hosanna" ="Praise God and his Messiah, we are saved."
(Not 'God-the-Messiah')

THIS is what Jesus taught the Jews as to who he REALLY was-

Mark 12: 1- Jesus then began to speak to them in parables:
"A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and moved to another place.
2- At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard.
3- But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed.
4 Then he sent another servant to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully.
5- He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some of them they beat, others they killed.
6- "He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent - him last of all, saying, 'They will respect my son.'
7- But the tenants said to one another, 'This is the heir. Come, let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.'
8- So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.
9 - What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others.

Mark 12: 29 - The most important one, answered Jesus, is this: Hear, O Israel: Jehovah [ the Koine Greek used "LORD"since it had no version of God's Name yet]
Your God, the Lord is one."

[...NOT "three"]

Question said:

There are FALSE Gods, the REAL One, and those He called God because they REPRESENTED Him, like Moses and Christ.

Click to expand...

That does not answer what the definition of the word god. All you just did was tell me who god is not, which has nothing to do with the word itself. I mean you're not god, nor am I and this list goes on and on. Though I disagree that Christ should not be in the names you mentioned above. Why? Because in the definition I present to you as others have is that God is 3 in One, while you say God is One also, but reject the 3-person existence of God.

So, I ask why can't you see God as being 3 persons? I would answer for you, because 3 means there are 3 Gods! Well, no, if the Word "God" is exactly what it is which is just a title of what one calls, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. (John 14:9) For if they are each are the essence of God, you cannot say that God the Father is the only holder of God title, when the Son is the essence of God the Father as is the Holy Spirit from the beginning of time. All else is a creation except for God in the 3 persons.

Look at it this way. When an amoeba splits, are they indistinguishable from each other? No. In essence neither are God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit for in essence they are the same.

The Jews of Jesus' time understood what He was saying when He professed to be the Son of God, and the reason why they tried to stone Him on more than one occasion. Blasphemy was punishable by death, and the reason for stoning Him. A man would dare to call himself God! Get the stones!!!!

You say that Jesus never said He was God; well, He never said He was not. What He did say, was that He was the Son of God, and in so doing that a Hierarchy existed in the Godhead. Never negating the divinity of any of the 3 persons as previously stated.

I ask this, because what you or I define god as being, is not necessarily what others would see the word god as being. At least in the English, much less in other languages.

Which leaves the very word itself as a question that needs defining. Brother BAC was on the track, when he started the thread on the Character of God, which is closer to defining the only existing God that Christianity believes in or in other words the God of Creation of the Universe. Keep in mind that scripture is explicit that Jesus created all things, seen and unseen. (Col 1:16)

Since you didn't answer the following but only said the above to my post, I repeat:

So, I ask you again, to define the word "god".

Who is the Alpha and Omega?

Genesis 1:26 - and even the Jewish scholars see it as being plural, though they state it as also having other associations with king, royalty. (up to you who you'll believe even though all agree the plurality was being used)

So, who is Jesus if not the Son of God?

Who is the Holy Spirit, if He has sentience and makes decisions?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Mark 13:32 - But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
33- Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will
come.

So much for 'Co-Equality'....

"God" is the Supreme Being.
Not 'Supreme Beings"
Jehovah.

Does this sound like the Almighty 'God-the-Son', a 2nd God of a 'Trinity'?

Mark 14:35- Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him.
36- "Abba, Father," he said, "everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will."

The Almighty God praying to ANOTHER Almighty God to change His Almighty Mind?
How perverse the Trinity Dogma (of Catholic Origin) is!

A moment before dying on stake (or cross), Jesus cried out to the TRUE God- HIS God-

Mark 15:34- And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?"
(which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?").

Jesus knew why, so this was exasperation. He died after these words.
God did not die that day, crying out to two OTHER Gods!
His SON died.

Mark, Luke and John bring out the same details.
Let's go to Acts!

After Jesuss had been resurrected by his God and Father-
Acts 1:1- In my former book, Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach
2- until the day he was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the holy spirit to the apostles he had chosen.
3- After his suffering, he presented himself to them and gave many convincing proofs that he was alive. He appeared to them over a period of forty days and
spoke about the kingdom of God.
4- On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command:
"Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.
5- For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the holy spirit."

Now, put Tradition aside, and MEDITATE on what's said here; is the holy spirit a GHOST?
Are they to be BAPTISED in a GHOST-GOD?
Or, is it referring to the "Power of the Most High", as the spirit was described by Gabriel?
The Apostles never had a Ghost-God materialize and give them instruction,
but were being directed by the Power of God to do so.
AND, notice what the 'Gospel' Jesus preached was about?

Acts 1:6- So when they met together, they asked him, "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"
7- He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.
8- But you will receive POWER when the holy spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea
and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
9 -After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

Again, the Holy Spirit described as POWER!

The scriptures state men wrote them down as guided by God.

Acts 1:15- In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty)
16- and said, "Brothers and sisters, the Scripture had to be fulfilled in which the holy spirit spoke long ago through David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those
who arrested Jesus.

God does things with the POWER of Holy Spirit, Holy "Breath", "Wind"!
No Ghost possessed David and spoke thru him; God's power moved David to write down what Jehovah was showing him.