Pre-trib Rapture only, anything else incriminates God

[backNforth]

Sure, I am OSAS.

Sure, you are. There's still but a little time to correct that.
Tick...tick...tick.

We believe God is not a human. Unlike us He can judge heart and mind Jer 17:9-12. We can make mistakes of thinking we are saved and not be saved

...that's yet more group-think i.e. prima facie evidence of denominational brainwashing.

This coming from someone who does not engage in proper debate.

I don't "debate" with the defenseless. Further, "debate" is a characteristic of the reprobate mind. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being full of...debate... (Romans 1).

you are addicted to wasting yours and other peoples time at this point in the conversation.

...and since this thread has thankfully been brought to a near-halt by the Truth, alas, he will start yet another one, as that spirit empowering him has been wont to do.

since when have you seen a demon heal a person?

The thief comes only but to steal and to kill and to destroy...
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (2 Thes. 2).

Demons can "heal" someone in the worldly sense. But it is a trick; it is one of those "lying wonders" - a lie that always comes back to bite.

Also note the above verse concerning unrighteousness. The more unrighteously one behaves, the more deception he is brought under - even as he is perishing. Witness this thread and all its clones, excreted here and elsewhere...

 

[Bill]

Yes do not receive the mark, but there will be people getting saved in the tribulation period, and God will send the 2 witnesses to bring a witness to the people.

Who is God coming for at the rapture ?

1Th 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

He is coming for them that are in Christ, so if that is the case, then the ones left behind are not in Christ, because he came to get the ones that are in Christ, but that does not mean that one cannot get saved and finally be in Christ in the tribulation period.

And yes do not receive the mark.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

That's not talking about the rapture that's talking about the end

 

[Bill]

Sure, you are. There's still but a little time to correct that.
Tick...tick...tick.


...that's yet more group-think i.e. prima facie evidence of denominational brainwashing.


I don't "debate" with the defenseless. Further, "debate" is a characteristic of the reprobate mind. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being full of...debate... (Romans 1).


...and since this thread has thankfully been brought to a near-halt by the Truth, alas, he will start yet another one, as that spirit empowering him has been wont to do.


The thief comes only but to steal and to kill and to destroy...
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (2 Thes. 2).

Demons can "heal" someone in the worldly sense. But it is a trick; it is one of those "lying wonders" - a lie that always comes back to bite.

Also note the above verse concerning unrighteousness. The more unrighteously one behaves, the more deception he is brought under - even as he is perishing. Witness this thread and all its clones, excreted here and elsewhere...

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

There are a number of things that you said that are so right.

Once saved always saved isn't even scriptural. We can see that with the life of Judas.

When the apostles went out to the towns Jesus gave them the authority over a demons and to heal people, after returning they were rejoicing and praising and talking about all the things that they were doing and Jesus told them don't rejoice in all those things that you have done but Rejoice that your names are written in heaven.

This is something that everybody likes to overlook when we talk about the one saved always saved and the life of Judas. Jesus stated that his name was written in heaven. And if you pay attention to that particular passage it names off all of the Apostles that had gone out to the towns and they make specific point of judas's full name of Judas Iscariot every time that they post the names of the Apostles.

I like to believe that Jesus is the author of the scripture so that there's no doubt that Jesus orchestrated the way the scripture is written and the fact that it is written in the scripture. So he's making a point to tell us that Judas was indeed someone whose name was written in heaven. But then Judas chose to make a choice. He chose to betray Jesus

Let us look at Peter. I think in many ways, that Peter's betreyal of Jesus was actually far greater than Judas's. With the one exception, that Peter returned to Jesus. Where Judas did not. Peter who was given the Knowledge by God the Father, that Jesus was the Messiah, still rejected Jesus.

So all the apostles had their names written in heaven, then after Judas chose to betray Jesus he threw it all away.

I believe that the story that Jesus gives about the man who says to the king but Lord I cast out demons in your name I healed people in your name, was actually Jesus talking about Judas.

Now there's something else that's also very important, it has to do with casting out of demons. You cannot cast out demons unless you are in the Lord and we see this in the scripture. Jesus tells us that demons cannot cast demons out. And we know that man cannot cast a demon out either you see this in the New Testament the only time that you can cast a demon out is through the Lord. So the person casting demons out they have to be in the Lord to do it there's no way to get around it. So for Judas to cast demons out and to heal people he had to have been in the Lord to do that. I understand that Jesus gave them the authority to do that but it's the same way with anyone who doesn't exorcisms or cast out demons God gives them Authority and they still cast them out. You cannot cast out a demon unless you are in Lord that's the plain and simple fact.

Simply put judas's name was written in heaven and he threw it away and he's condemned because of it. So the one saved always saved philosophy is not scriptural and the scripture proves it.

 

[Bill]

Yes do not receive the mark, but there will be people getting saved in the tribulation period, and God will send the 2 witnesses to bring a witness to the people.

Who is God coming for at the rapture ?

1Th 4:16-17
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
(17) Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

He is coming for them that are in Christ, so if that is the case, then the ones left behind are not in Christ, because he came to get the ones that are in Christ, but that does not mean that one cannot get saved and finally be in Christ in the tribulation period.

And yes do not receive the mark.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

Yes I'm well aware of the Two Witnesses, I am one of them.

 

[Bill]

Oh, so if you cast out real demons, it is guaranteed that you will be known by Jesus?



James 1:27 starts with 'religion undefiled'. Helping orphans is tied at the hip to Christianity. You cannot do such unless you have a heart that will accept Jesus.

Mother Theresa, you are so wrong, you need to study more.

---------------------

You need to picture yourself arriving at the pearly gates.

Person 1 - Jesus, I died while casting out demons, real demons, let me in.

Person 2 - Hi Jesus, I died while feeding orphans, this place looks nice, where am I?

Jesus to Person 1 - Is there anyone here in heaven that gives a single hoot that this person cast out demons? Anyone? Hello, anyone?

Maybe if you needed to fast many days for the demon to come out and were very committed to helping a person, sure.

Jesus to Person 2 - Welcome my good and faithful child. There are many orphans and their extremely grateful family members here. Eager to meet and greet you.

There is simply no such thing as any person who did such ever going to hell. Everyone in heaven, including Jesus would object to that.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

I can truly tell you my friend, that if you are ever in the presence or someone is actually casting out a demon. You will never forget it. But if you are there in the presence of a demon that's being cast out you will be attacked because your philosophy is not sound. The only way that you would be able to be in the presence of someone casting out a demon is if God shields you, from the darkness.

The darkness will exploit every single Avenue and you would be prime material trust me you'll just have to trust me on the subject because of your thinking you would be seriously attacked. It's not because of your faith it's because of how you think about things. For instance the once saved always saved which isn't even scriptural you would be attacked on that by itself. And you would be attacked on a number of other issues that you believe in and the demons know them very well and they will come after you if you are involved with something like that. So I would strongly suggest not to get involved. Unless you wish to just pray for that person

And this goes for everyone out there if you are invited to do some kind of Deliverance thing or just or to go to some exorcism, I strongly encourage you not to. The only way that you would even want to be there is asking the Lord to protect you from the darkness. Unless God specifically tells you to do that type of work, you do not want to be directly involved with it.

If you have any kind of sin in your life the demons will go after you. And you will find really quickly how the one saved always save philosophy is worthless. The Salvation you get when you accept Jesus as Lord is for that moment. You're starting with an A. Now you have to strive to keep that A , the A of sinlessness. This is why it's really important not to sin, and to beseech God daily to forgive you of sins that you may not even realize that you have done.

 

[Gerbolski]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

That's not talking about the rapture that's talking about the end

Do you even know what the rapture is, and what that word means ?

 

[Bill]

Do you even know what the rapture is, and what that word means ?

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

I'm very well aware of the false teaching called The Rapture, or the pre-tribulation Rapture as many believe.

I do know what the word rapture itself means though " one definition of it is "to be caught up" , which is exactly what it is when Jesus comes on the clouds and we are caught up to Jesus to meet him in the end.

 

[Gerbolski]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

Yes I'm well aware of the Two Witnesses, I am one of them.

Rev 11:3-4 KJV And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing befo re the God of the earth.

Zec 4:12-14 KJV And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13. And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

It says in Zechariah that in his time the two witnesses, which are the two olive branches, were standing by the Lord of the whole earth. Were you Bill standing by the Lord of the whole earth in Zechariah's time ?

 

[Gerbolski]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom.

I'm very well aware of the false teaching called The Rapture, or the pre-tribulation Rapture as many believe.

I do know what the word rapture itself means though " one definition of it is "to be caught up" , which is exactly what it is when Jesus comes on the clouds and we are caught up to Jesus to meet him in the end.

I used a verse that talks about the rapture of being caught up, yet you say it is not the rapture, yet it talks about being caught up, if one of the main definitions means caught up, then what are you even saying ?

 

[KingJ]

Sure, you are. There's still but a little time to correct that.
Tick...tick...tick.

Cringe.

...that's yet more group-think i.e. prima facie evidence of denominational brainwashing.

This is not a rebuttal.

I don't "debate" with the defenseless.

Then you should avoid your twin.

Further, "debate" is a characteristic of the reprobate mind. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being full of...debate... (Romans 1).

The thief comes only but to steal and to kill and to destroy...
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (2 Thes. 2).

You keep wanting to paint me as the person on the wrong side of the fence. I can just pray for you. Ask God to help you grasp that it is the beliefs you hold to that misrepresent and incriminate Him.

...and since this thread has thankfully been brought to a near-halt by the Truth, alas, he will start yet another one, as that spirit empowering him has been wont to do.

The truth. LMAO. Are you only reading and liking the posts of those who disagree with me? You have all run from replies that expose your posts as clear error and inserted assumptions. There are open discussions / posts awaiting replies for you, Bill, BAC and Farmer. You guys make silly statements and then run from any kind of interrogation.

But I don't blame you. Much like flat earthers you have to run from truth, avoid debate and resort to ad hominem. Is there a single post in this thread that has not had some from you?

Also note the above verse concerning unrighteousness. The more unrighteously one behaves, the more deception he is brought under - even as he is perishing. Witness this thread and all its clones, excreted here and elsewhere...

Unrighteous? coming from the one who passes personal insults in every post and has been clearly exposed as someone inserting their own assumptions into scripture to make their pet belief work. Pet beliefs that imply that God is a human who cannot judge the heart, shows preference to some, is a liar who does not hold to Rom 10:9 and does in every sense of the term, truly leave and forsake us.

You are guilty of false teaching, being unteachable, passing a lot of personal insults and making a meal of casting out demons as something profound and wonderful. I am not so sure you are saved.

If I was pro non-OSAS / non pre-trib rapture and an OSAS / pre-trib rapture person explained to me how my beliefs incriminate God, I would pay full attention and take seriously all they are saying. Not cling to assumptions and pass repeated personal insults. You and others have not and do not deal with my accusations of your belief. Not a single sound rebuttal. I am not sure you even know what that is.

Many preachers only preach and do not accept correction. It comes from vanity. And vanity is NOT a sign of Christianity.

 

[KingJ]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

I can truly tell you my friend, that if you are ever in the presence or someone is actually casting out a demon. You will never forget it. But if you are there in the presence of a demon that's being cast out you will be attacked because your philosophy is not sound. The only way that you would be able to be in the presence of someone casting out a demon is if God shields you, from the darkness.

The darkness will exploit every single Avenue and you would be prime material trust me you'll just have to trust me on the subject because of your thinking you would be seriously attacked. It's not because of your faith it's because of how you think about things. For instance the once saved always saved which isn't even scriptural you would be attacked on that by itself. And you would be attacked on a number of other issues that you believe in and the demons know them very well and they will come after you if you are involved with something like that. So I would strongly suggest not to get involved. Unless you wish to just pray for that person

And this goes for everyone out there if you are invited to do some kind of Deliverance thing or just or to go to some exorcism, I strongly encourage you not to. The only way that you would even want to be there is asking the Lord to protect you from the darkness. Unless God specifically tells you to do that type of work, you do not want to be directly involved with it.

If you have any kind of sin in your life the demons will go after you. And you will find really quickly how the one saved always save philosophy is worthless. The Salvation you get when you accept Jesus as Lord is for that moment. You're starting with an A. Now you have to strive to keep that A , the A of sinlessness. This is why it's really important not to sin, and to beseech God daily to forgive you of sins that you may not even realize that you have done.

It seems that talking to you on any intellectual level is a literal waste of time. You do not address arguments raised and scriptures given. You keep to your personal pet theories and opinions. So I can only imagine how a debate on this new topic will go.

No, casting out demons is NOT a sign of being a Christian. Are you for real? I have also witnessed exorcisms, being involved even and if you have as you claim, you would know that casting them out is not the problem. You simply need to use the name of Jesus. The problem is keeping them out. Unless Jesus comes in, or Christians move into a house, the demon will return.

It is really not rocket science.

What I find interesting is how both you and @backNforth have used personal opinions and false interpretations of experiences to negate the relevance of what scripture says in Matt 7:22-23 and James 1:27. You are both being false teachers.

 

[Bill]

Rev 11:3-4 KJV And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing befo re the God of the earth.

Zec 4:12-14 KJV And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? 13. And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 14. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

It says in Zechariah that in his time the two witnesses, which are the two olive branches, were standing by the Lord of the whole earth. Were you Bill standing by the Lord of the whole earth in Zechariah's time ?

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom .

Let me explain in a little bit of what the two witnesses are,. The two witnesses have always been before God there are the two golden lampstands that stand before the Lord for all eternity. I personally don't have the recollection of that at this moment. But I have experienced moments of feeling ancient it's about the only way I can explain it.

So let me explain a little bit more about the Two Witnesses. The first time in Scripture that we see evidence of the Two Witnesses, is the two tablets that had the Word of God written on them.

There's a couple times I have written about the Two Witnesses, that they are look like bookends, they seem to be alike and yet they are opposites. And they have all of what "God IS" between them.

As far as the concept of Elijah returning. When we look at John the Baptist he was born of a woman and Jesus referred to him as Elijah, and that Elijah would also come again. So we have to understand that the two witnesses are also born of women they're not coming down from Heaven to Earth but they are actually born on the Earth and they grow up and they are who God calls them to.

As far as myself goes, God asked me to be the witness, and I knew what it was what he asked me to be when he's asked. And I said yes. I said to the Lord may your will be done and not mine.

 

[Bill]

It seems that talking to you on any intellectual level is a literal waste of time. You do not address arguments raised and scriptures given. You keep to your personal pet theories and opinions. So I can only imagine how a debate on this new topic will go.

No, casting out demons is NOT a sign of being a Christian. Are you for real? I have also witnessed exorcisms, being involved even and if you have as you claim, you would know that casting them out is not the problem. You simply need to use the name of Jesus. The problem is keeping them out. Unless Jesus comes in, or Christians move into a house, the demon will return.

It is really not rocket science.

What I find interesting is how both you and @backNforth have used personal opinions and false interpretations of experiences to negate the relevance of what scripture says in Matt 7:22-23 and James 1:27. You are both being false teachers.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

It's through the scripture that we know that the only way that you can take out a demon is through God. And you have to have faith in God to do this or the demon will never come out. You can't just invoke the name of Jesus as you are mentioning to do such a thing because in Acts of the Apostles a person tried to do it without the authority of God and the demon throttled him.

So we know it's impossible to cast a demon out without the authority of Jesus and you can't have the authority of Jesus without believing that Jesus is God.