Arguments for OSAS

[Reba1]

Context

Chapter and verse are posted so anyone can easily look up the context

 

[Butch5]

Chapter and verse are posted so anyone can easily look up the context

True, but we shouldn't use it out of context so that the reader isn't required to have to check

 

[Reba1]

@Butch5 So please explain how, why, you say my use of Col 1:18 is out of context

 

[Reba1]

True, but we shouldn't use it out of context so that the reader isn't required to have to check

Col 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Thanksgiving and Prayer
Col 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
Col 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
Col 1:6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
Col 1:7 As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ;
Col 1:8 Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.
Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Col 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
The Preeminence of Christ
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[Butch5]

@Butch5 So please explain how, why, you say my use of Col 1:18 is out of context

I was referring to your use of Ephesians 2:8

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings fellow pilgrims and strangers,

There is grace and there is faith....

may i add?

But He giveth more grace. Wherefore He saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
James 4:6

and

I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall He find faith on the earth?
Luke 18:8


Bless you all ....><>


For the Lord will not cast us off forever.
Lamentations 3:1

Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find?
Proverbs 20:6

 

[Reba1]

I was referring to your use of Ephesians 2:8

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'
'

Seems to me these passages of Col and Eph go together well.

Again please how and why where was my use of Eph 2<8 out of context. ?

 

[Butch5]

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Again please how and why where was my use of Eph 2<8 out of context. ?

Your using it in support of OSAS. That's not what Paul is addressing

 

[Reba1]

Your using it in support of OSAS. That's not what Paul is addressing

Reads to me like God is addressing Salvation. Thanks for the reply and explanation .

 

[Butch5]

Reads to me like God is addressing Salvation. Thanks for the reply and explanation .

Paul is addressing how they were save, not whether or not it can be lost

 

[B-A-C]

Eph 2:8; For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Eph 2:9; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

We can't do anything to get saved, except have faith (which is a work according to Jesus - John 6:29; )
However after you become saved, there are some expectations.

Eph 2:10; For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

 

[B-A-C]

Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Yes, it is up to us... to "walk worthy" of the Lord. Be "fruitful in every good work" and increase "in the knowledge of the God".

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Yes, "IF" we continue in the faith, and we aren't "moved away from the hope of the gospel".

NOTE: You can't "continue" in the faith, unless you've already started in the faith.

 

[Br. Bear]

Eph 2:10; For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth Him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with Him. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (He is Lord of all: ) that word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: Who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with Him.
Acts 10:34-38

Now He which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.


Moreover I call God for a record upon my soul, that to spare you I came not as yet unto Corinth. Not for that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy: for by faith ye stand.
2Corinthians 1:21-24

 

[B-A-C]

Backsliding is not apostacizing. All of us sin and all of us fall short, every day.

But continued backsliding is apostasy. Backsliding over and over again is not repentance.

As for "all" of us sinning "every day" speak for yourself. Some of us don't sin "every" day.

 

[Reba1]

Paul is addressing how they were save, not whether or not it can be lost

I understand your point Butch Seems to me when God saves some one they are saved , we just view His Word differently . Having been, literally born, in non OSAS for the first about 50 years watching people head to the altar , self included, to get saved time after time . I started questioning my understanding of His Word. As often with God many things hit us from different directions kinda at the same time. While i am looking at things differently ... A wonderful brother in the Lord is passing away Dad had been his pastor years before. Johnny called dad he was so afraid to die what if i am not good enough what if i am not saved over and over did i really confess all my sin? This life lesson left a mark on me. He does the saving we dont .. He saves us we do not save our selves .
Times back i would read Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. Saying but I can jump out of his hand .
When we are His sheep
Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Kinda a short version of why i believe as i do .

 

[Br. Bear]

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Hebrews 3:12-14


And let us consider how to spur one another on to love and good deeds.
Hebrews 10:24

And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.
Ephesians 4:32

 

[JerryfromMass]

But continued backsliding is apostasy. Backsliding over and over again is not repentance.

As for "all" of us sinning "every day" speak for yourself. Some of us don't sin "every" day.

I do speak for myself, but God's word speaks to every one of us: all sin and fall short of the glory of God.

The question is: are you living in sinless perfection? If yes, say so. If no, say so. Being afraid to admit one or the other is a sign you may be lost.

A little pride here, a little anger there, a little lusting over there, a little envy here, a little greed there, a little lie here, a little gluttony and slothfulness over there. Now you're asking yourself: "Who, me?" Even just a little counts against you as sin.

If you say you live in sinless perfection even one day, then you should be able to say you live in sinless perfection every day. For ex: If you can go one day in sinless perfection, you can go another day in sinless perfection. And if can go two days, then you should be on your way to four. If four then eight, since you've already proven you can go four. Then sixteen, thirty-two, sixty-four, and so on. The fact is: you are not living in sinless perfection, and you're afraid and ashamed to admit it.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

perhaps the problem is when a man stops believing?


For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses. But with whom was He grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware He that they should not enter into His rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
Hebrews 3:16-19


Bless you ....><>

 

[B-A-C]

but God's word speaks to every one of us: all sin and fall short of the glory of God.

None of my Bibles say that. Not a single one says "all are sinning and fall short", they all say "all have sinned" (past tense) and fall short.

 

[Reba1]

@B-A-C are you with out sin?