Can Salvation Be lost?

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Hello there,

I found the link (above) on wwwbeliever.com and found it informative, and helpful in regard to the subject of the surety of salvation. If you have the time I hope you will listen to it, and comment on it's contents.

I find it irritating sometimes when a video link is employed to introduce a thread, because it requires that I have to spend time listening to something, when I would much prefer to read an OP, but in this case I thought it worth the possibility of causing irritation, for it is worth listening to and considering.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Downunder]

YES believers can fall away or fail or depart or shipwreck their faith and their walk.

 

[B-A-C]

Matt 24:10; "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
1Tim 4:1; But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
2Pet 3:17; You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,

Heb 6:4; For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5; and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6; and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

2Pet 2:20; For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2Pet 2:22; It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:14; "The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.

Matt 25:24; "And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
Matt 25:25; 'And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.'
Matt 25:26; "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:27; 'Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
Matt 25:28; 'Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.'
Matt 25:29; "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

1Tim 1:18; This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight,
1Tim 1:19; keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith.

1Tim 5:15; for some have already turned aside to follow Satan.

Matt 7:19; "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

 

[Brother-Paul]

I read the title and my first thoughts were... ONNA - (Oh no not again) is it another OSAS?

I did watch the video, but it had no subtitles, so I cannot comment as I don't know what was said.

I was however so pleased to read the replies from our dear brothers above with scripture confirmation.

Shalom

 

[B-A-C]

This video is borderline Universalism. It emphasizes the "free gift". But that phrase doesn't mean anything about eternal security.

A car could be a free gift. A house could be a free gift. Just because something is a free gift, doesn't mean you don't have to take care of it.
Also, just because something is a free gift, doesn't mean it can't be lost, given away or neglected.
So the phrase "It's a free gift" has very little to do with OSAS.

Heb 2:1; For this reason we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, so that we do not drift away from it.
Heb 2:2; For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty,
Heb 2:3; how will we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard,

John 6:66; As a result of this many of His disciples withdrew and were not walking with Him anymore.

 

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@B-A-C, @Downunder, @Brother Paul

Hello there,

Thank you for responding, especially if you have actually listened to the recording.

I believe when someone has been saved by God's grace, then it is a work of God, and therefore cannot fail.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Brother-Paul]

Off topic...

Free gift, the words really makes me laugh at times brother.

If something is free people queue for hours in all weathers.

When it comes to the Free Gift of Salvation the world runs away from it.

The Light is to bright for them.

Normal service is resumed.

 

[Brother-Paul]

@B-A-C, @Downunder, @Brother Paul

Hello there,

Thank you for responding, especially if you have actually listened to the recording.

I believe when someone has been saved by God's grace, then it is a work of God, and therefore cannot fail.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

It is not God that fails Chris, He doesn't want any to be lost, it is always the flesh.

How many gifts have we received over the years? Do we still have them? Are they cared for as they were when we first received them?

I have failed for sure

 

[B-A-C]

It's funny to me, that people tie salvation to God's success.

When Adam and Eve ate the fruit, 100% of mankind fell, Did God fail?
When Satan rebelled and was cast out of heaven, Did God fail?
When Solomon rejected God and went after foreign Gods, did God fail?
When the 70 disciples quit following Jesus, did God fail?
When Judas betrayed Jesus, did God fail?
When the 5 foolish virgin ran out of oil, did God fail?

Every time you sin, did God fail?

Why do we tie our failures to God.

 

[Downunder]

and therefore cannot fail.

Not scriptural - not what is written in the epistles nor even the gospels - certainly not one can observe in the real world.
OSAS really is part of this constant dumbing down of Christian doctrine to gather in bums on seats (and the money that comes with this).
Narrow is the gate and difficult is the way that leads to life and few there be that shall find it - hardly an endorsement of OSAS.

Luke 17:32 Remember the wife of Lot.
17:33 Whoever shall seek to gain his life shall lose it: but whosoever shall lose his life shall save it alive.

 

[JerryfromMass]

God calls on all men to repent for a reason: God wants all to be saved. Not all will repent, in fact most will remain in the dark. Jesus made it very clear: abide in HIM and HE will abide in you.

The truly saved are truly saved - eternally. We are born once physically into this world, and we are born once spiritually from above. The truly saved will not fall away, no matter what, Jesus made that clear. You can point to so-called believers and say "Look, he [or she] fell away." All I can say is this: they didn't fall away, because they were never in a position to fall away; they were phonies from the beginning, tares among the wheat. The sower sowed one seed, but the seed lands on more than one soil, and there are tares among the wheat. The tares are the ones that are most difficult to distinguish because they look very similar to the wheat. But once the tares grow, you can clearly see the difference, and that difference was always there, it just wasn't apparent to the naked eye.

If you have complete faith, trust, and rest in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you are following HIM as your SAVIOR and LORD, you are eternally HIS and nothing can separate you from HIM. If, however, you doubt that what Jesus did and said (HIS ministry, HIS death, burial, resurrection, and ascension) was enough for you to know you are saved, and think that you must do more than what Jesus did, you're likely going to hear these words: "Go away. I never knew you."

 

[Downunder]

The truly saved will not fall away, no matter what, Jesus made that clear.

Nonsense - in scripture believers or disciples are either saved or not saved - and scripture is describing disciples who are baptised in water and the Holy Spirit
Romans 8:9 But YE are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that God’s Spirit dwelleth in you. But if any hath not Christ’s Spirit he is none of his.
In the NT there are no scriptures pertaining to the truly saved - all are required to endure to the end.

All I can say is this: they didn't fall away, because they were never in a position to fall away; they were phonies from the beginning, tares among the wheat.

Speculative doctrine here - made up to give OSAS some credit. You are opening up a Pandora's Box here of accusations about who is saved and who is a Christian.
People do start off in the fullness of the gospel and with signs following, but they over time fail to uphold their first love - the letters to the 7 churches contain dire warnings to us so that we do not lose our salvation.

Mark 4:18 And others are they sown among the thorns; these are they that have heard the word,
4:19 and the cares of the age, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

2Peter 1:8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to be not idle nor unfruitful unto the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1:9 For who lacks these is blind, short-sighted, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins.

 

[B-A-C]

The truly saved will not fall away, no matter what, Jesus made that clear.

Where? Actually He said just the opposite.

All I can say is this: they didn't fall away, because they were never in a position to fall away;

And yet seven times in the the New testament it says "fall away".

nothing can separate you from HIM

The Bible says nothing can separate you from His love. His love is not salvation. He loves even the lost sinners.

however, you doubt that what Jesus did and said (HIS ministry, HIS death, burial, resurrection, and ascension) was enough for you to know you are saved, and think that you must do more than what Jesus did, you're likely going to hear these words: "Go away. I never knew you."

IYet the Bible says just the opposite in Matt 7:21-23; it was the people who thought they were saved, (and even did things by the power of the Holy Spirit) but kept on sinning, who were told this.

 

[JerryfromMass]

Nonsense - in scripture believers or disciples are either saved or not saved - and scripture is describing disciples who are baptised in water and the Holy Spirit
Romans 8:9 But YE are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if so be that God’s Spirit dwelleth in you. But if any hath not Christ’s Spirit he is none of his.
In the NT there are no scriptures pertaining to the truly saved - all are required to endure to the end.

Speculative doctrine here - made up to give OSAS some credit. You are opening up a Pandora's Box here of accusations about who is saved and who is a Christian.
People do start off in the fullness of the gospel and with signs following, but they over time fail to uphold their first love - the letters to the 7 churches contain dire warnings to us so that we do not lose our salvation.

Mark 4:18 And others are they sown among the thorns; these are they that have heard the word,
4:19 and the cares of the age, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.

2Peter 1:8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to be not idle nor unfruitful unto the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1:9 For who lacks these is blind, short-sighted, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins.

Well, I agree with Jesus, and HE said we are HIS eternally: John 10: "25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. 26But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. 27My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29[f]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are [g]one.”

And since was taught by the risen and glorified Lord, I believe what he says, too: Romans 8: "28And we know that [q]God [r]causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified."

 

[B-A-C]

Well, I agree with Jesus, and HE said we are HIS eternally: John 10: "25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father’s name, these testify of Me. 26But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep. 27My sheep listen to My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give them eternal life, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29[f]My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are [g]one.”

No one can "take" you from Jesus. But you are free to walk away on your own. Also while no one can take you from Jesus, He will cast some out Himself.

John 15:6; "If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 13:41; "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

 

[JerryfromMass]

Where? Actually He said just the opposite.



And yet seven times in the the New testament it says "fall away".



The Bible says nothing can separate you from His love. His love is not salvation. He loves even the lost sinners.



IYet the Bible says just the opposite in Matt 7:21-23; it was the people who thought they were saved, (and even did things by the power of the Holy Spirit) but kept on sinning, who were told this.

Those of whom Jesus say to HIM "Lord, Lord", are the self-righteous whom Jesus never knew because they were never born again. If they were born again, they would have had the HOLY SPIRIT indwelling and Jesus would have known them. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are eternally connected. If those that say "Lord, Lord" were doing things by virtue of the indwelling Holy Spirit, how would Jesus not know them?

 

[JerryfromMass]

No one can "take" you from Jesus. But you are free to walk away on your own. Also while no one can take you from Jesus, He will cast some out Himself.

John 15:6; "If anyone does not remain in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Matt 13:41; "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

I was under the assumption that you read my initial, wherein I wrote: abide in HIM and HE will abide in you.

 

[B-A-C]

1Cor 12:3; Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Heb 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

abide in HIM and HE will abide in you.

1Jn 3:24; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and Christ abides in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

 

[JerryfromMass]

1Cor 12:3; Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed"; and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.

Heb 6:4 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

Yes, those in Kadesh Barnea fell away because they had never fully and completely put their faith in God. They heard, they saw, they even felt in their hearts, yet they stubbornly resisted and rebelled against God who brought them out of bondage.

 

[Downunder]

There is going to be a lot, and I mean heaps, of disappointment and wailing and gnashing of teeth by many when God our saviour returns.
Christianity has so departed from the common salvation that was once delivered to the saints.
Even water baptism and repentance are controversial issues not required for salvation.
Many churches claim to have the Holy Spirit simply by believing.
And when the world is on fire then during this tribulations and destruction upon the world so many will find that their certificate of warranty issued by their pastors, etc. ain't worth anything.

Matthew 10:22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.
24:11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray.
24:12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.
24:13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. - Matthew 10:

Proverbs 24:10 If you faint on the day of adversity, little is your strength.