Can Salvation Be lost?

[complete]

Salvation And Its Terms

1. THE DECLARATION
We believe that salvation is by grace, through faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ. It constitutes the theme of the gospel, and while a message of unspeakable mercy to the sinner, it stands firm upon the basis of righteousness, God in His wondrous love providing the sacrifice for sin, whereby He might be a just God and a Saviour of all that call upon Him.

2. SCRIPTURAL GROUNDS
' ... I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth' (Rom. 1:16).
' ... the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men' (Titus 2:11).
' ... Thou shalt call His name JESUS: for He shall save His people from their sins' (Matt. 1:21).
'Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us'
(Titus 3:5).

'For by grace are ye saved through faith ... not of works' (Eph. 2:8,9).
' ... a just God and a Saviour' (Isa. 45:21).

3. EXPLANATION AND EXPANSION OF THE SCRIPTURES THAT SPEAK OF SALVATION.

While the law can only condemn where perfect righteousness cannot be produced, the gospel brings glad tidings of salvation for the ungodly, the sinner, and the lost. The reason that the gospel of Christ is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth is that therein is revealed a righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ, which is unto all and upon all that believe.

While the whole Person and work of Christ forms the object of faith, the resurrection is specially stressed.

' ... If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved'
(Rom. 10:9).

Salvation cannot be merited; it is not of works, but the gift of God. The Lord Jesus Christ is above all else 'The Saviour', and salvation is ours because of His finished work. He died, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God. He suffered for our sins. He endured the cross that salvation might be complete, even to the putting off of the old man, and the putting on of the new. His precious blood cleanses from all sin, and in His resurrection the believer finds the power and pledge of a new and endless life. The fact that God is a just God and a Saviour, that He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, that in the very salvation provided by His love He manifests not only His mercy but His righteousness; this is the believer's sure rock foundation. Salvation is all of grace; free, unmerited favour to the worthless and the lost.
We believe that, once saved the believer has incorruptible seed which is by birth and cannot be corrupted or lost. This does not mean that unfaithfulness will not be reckoned, or that there is any encouragement to slackness on the believer's part, but that those for whom the Saviour died can never perish, neither can any pluck them out of His hand. Salvation is the great covering term that stretches from the first awakening to the need of a Saviour to the time when the redeemed are presented faultless before His throne. Salvation includes justification by faith without works, forgiveness of sins, the gift of eternal life, and the hope of glory.

'This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners'
(1 Tim. 1:15).

I found this on Believer.com, and thought it worth sharing. It sums up what I believe on the subject.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Brother-Paul]

@B-A-C, @Downunder, @Brother Paul

Hello there,

Thank you for responding, especially if you have actually listened to the recording.

I believe when someone has been saved by God's grace, then it is a work of God, and therefore cannot fail.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Greetings @complete

I say this in love sister.

God's work is linked to; 'God does not want one soul to be lost'. He listens to our prayers for peoples salvation, which have been interceded to Him through Jesus in faith. He sends the Holy Spirit to work on a person's heart, but if the heart is to hard it is not God's fault, hearts have to change. Those prayers remain in the prayer bowls in heaven, prayers are raised again, again he sends the Holy Spirit, but it takes time for hearts to become responsive.

The work of God doesn't fail, the will of God doesn't fail, it is the hardness of the human heart that is unresponsive to the Holy Spirit.

It is God's will that not one soul shall be lost, He responds to every prayer for salvation of a lost soul, be it doesn't mean all will be saved, and it doesn't mean His work has failed.

Shalom

 

[B-A-C]

'This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners'
(1 Tim. 1:15).

These are great verses. I agree with everyone of them. People can and do certainly get saved.

' ... If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved'
(Rom. 10:9).

Yes, Jesus saves. He is the only way. Yes I agree.

But not a single one of these verses say anything about eternal security (OSAS).

 

[complete]

@Brother-Paul
@B-A-C

Hello both,

Thank you for your responses.

I believe that when a work of God is begun in the heart of a man, then it continues until the day of Christ as Paul maintains in relation to believers at Philippi,

'Being confident of this very thing,
that He which hath begun a good work in you
will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all,
because I have you in my heart;
inasmuch as both in my bonds,
and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel,
ye all are partakers of my grace.'
(Philippians 1:6)

Later, in 2 Timothy, Paul says that all in Asia had turned away from Paul, and that would have included those at Philippi, but though they turned away from Paul, nothing is said about them turning away from Christ.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[JerryfromMass]

These are great verses. I agree with everyone of them. People can and do certainly get saved.



Yes, Jesus saves. He is the only way. Yes I agree.

But not a single one of these verses say anything about eternal security (OSAS).

These do:

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Ephesians 4:30: And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

John 3:15–16: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 8:38–39: For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

John 4:13-14 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life”

John 5:24: Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life

John 11:25-26: Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?

1 John 5:13: These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[B-A-C]

I believe that

What we believe, isn't always what is in scripture, and scripture never contradicts itself.

 

[B-A-C]

Ephesians 4:30: And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

What does the fact that some people will receive eternal life, have to with the life they have now?
Also that's not a very good translation. Here are a few better ones.

Ephesians 4:30
(AMPC) And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God [do not offend or vex or sadden Him], by Whom you were sealed (marked, branded as God's own, secured) for the day of redemption (of final deliverance through Christ from evil and the consequences of sin).
(BBE) And do not give grief to the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were marked for the day of salvation.
(CEV) Don't make God's Spirit sad. The Spirit makes you sure that someday you will be free from your sins.
(ESV) And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
(GNB) And do not make God's Holy Spirit sad; for the Spirit is God's mark of ownership on you, a guarantee that the Day will come when God will set you free.
(GW) Don't give God's Holy Spirit any reason to be upset with you. He has put his seal on you for the day you will be set free from the world of sin.
(MSG) Don't grieve God. Don't break his heart. His Holy Spirit, moving and breathing in you, is the most intimate part of your life, making you fit for himself. Don't take such a gift for granted.
(NIrV) Do not make God's Holy Spirit sad. He marked you with a seal for the day when God will set you completely free.

 

[JerryfromMass]

I know I am presently and eternally secure because my faith, my trust, and my rest is in God completely. I passed from death to life eternal when I was regenerated by the Holy Spirit. If your faith, trust, and rest is in God completely, you will know you are presently and eternally secure, too. What is stopping you?

 

[Downunder]

I know I am presently and eternally secure because my faith, my trust, and my rest is in God completely. I passed from death to life eternal when I was regenerated by the Holy Spirit. If your faith, trust, and rest is in God completely, you will know you are presently and eternally secure, too. What is stopping you?

Agreed and I have hope and confidence in my walk and my eventual salvation through Christ Jesus.
I am glad for you that you also are positive about your faith and walk BUT your zeal and dedication cannot be transferred to others, who have for whatever reasons lost their way, thrown in the towel, or have let go of their faith.
Just because you are faithful and rejoicing in the Lord does not mean that others over time do not falter and depart from the faith.
Keep up the good work and remain steadfast and true for yourself.
As it is written we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. (And why this if belief is so hunky dory and assured?)

 

[JerryfromMass]

Agreed and I have hope and confidence in my walk and my eventual salvation through Christ Jesus.
I am glad for you that you also are positive about your faith and walk BUT your zeal and dedication cannot be transferred to others, who have for whatever reasons lost their way, thrown in the towel, or have let go of their faith.
Just because you are faithful and rejoicing in the Lord does not mean that others over time do not falter and depart from the faith.
Keep up the good work and remain steadfast and true for yourself.
As it is written we are to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. (And why this if belief is so hunky dory and assured?)

That is a good question. I'm reminded of a story, whether true or not is immaterial, about the Queen viewing Sir Christopher Wren's completed St. Paul's Cathedral and commenting how "aweful" it looked. We might think that odd today, but aweful in the early 18th century meant what we might call "awesome" or "magnificent".

"Fear and trembling" brings to mind a heart racing nervousness and severe quivering in one's boots. But it really means to have great reverence, respect, and steadfast conviction and humility toward God and HIS word. Those that live accordingly have confident assurance of present and eternal salvation.

 

[complete]

'Wherefore He is able also to save them to the uttermost
that come unto God by Him,
seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them.'
(Heb 7:25)

Praise God!

 

[complete]

Hello @JerryfromMass,

If you have time, and the desire, would you please take a look at the verses that @B-A-C has entered in reply#3, and respond to them, in the light of the question posed by the thread subject heading - 'Can Salvation be lost?'

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

Greetings @complete

I say this in love sister.

God's work is linked to; 'God does not want one soul to be lost'. He listens to our prayers for peoples salvation, which have been interceded to Him through Jesus in faith. He sends the Holy Spirit to work on a person's heart, but if the heart is to hard it is not God's fault, hearts have to change. Those prayers remain in the prayer bowls in heaven, prayers are raised again, again he sends the Holy Spirit, but it takes time for hearts to become responsive.

The work of God doesn't fail, the will of God doesn't fail, it is the hardness of the human heart that is unresponsive to the Holy Spirit.

It is God's will that not one soul shall be lost, He responds to every prayer for salvation of a lost soul, be it doesn't mean all will be saved, and it doesn't mean His work has failed.

Shalom

Hello @Brother-Paul,

I am aware that although Christ died for all men, that not all will be saved. However, I do believe that if the sinner recognises His sinfulness, and seeks God's mercy and grace, on the basis of the finished work of Christ, that He will be accepted in the Beloved, and made meet to partake of the inheritance of the saints in light.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[JerryfromMass]

Matt 24:10; "At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.
1Tim 4:1; But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
2Pet 3:17; You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,

Heb 6:4; For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5; and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6; and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.

2Pet 2:20; For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2Pet 2:21; For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2Pet 2:22; It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.
Luke 8:14; "The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity.

Matt 25:24; "And the one also who had received the one talent came up and said, 'Master, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you scattered no seed.
Matt 25:25; 'And I was afraid, and went away and hid your talent in the ground. See, you have what is yours.'
Matt 25:26; "But his master answered and said to him, 'You wicked, lazy slave, you knew that I reap where I did not sow and gather where I scattered no seed.
Matt 25:27; 'Then you ought to have put my money in the bank, and on my arrival I would have received my money back with interest.
Matt 25:28; 'Therefore take away the talent from him, and give it to the one who has the ten talents.'
Matt 25:29; "For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.
Matt 25:30; "Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

1Tim 1:18; This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight,
1Tim 1:19; keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith.

1Tim 5:15; for some have already turned aside to follow Satan.

Matt 7:19; "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

@B-A-C. I have a few questions for you.

1. Are you presently saved?
2. How do you know you're saved?

3. Are you being saved, i.e., sanctified?
4. How do you know you're sanctified?

5. Will you be saved, i.e. glorified?
6. How do you know you'll be glorified?

Thank you, B-A-C.

 

[complete]

@Downunder
@B-A-C

Matthew 7:19; 24:10; 25:24-30;
Luke 8:13-14
1 Timothy 1:18-19; 4:1; 5:15
Hebrews 6:4-6
2 Peter 2:20-22; 3:17;

Hello there,

I would like to respond to your entries (replies #2 & #3). For it is true that people have professed to have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, but have then sadly departed from the faith, and B-A-C's list of verses confirm that (above). I at the moment have no defence to make, that is why I asked @JerryfromMass to take a look at that list of verses, and make a response.

May the Lord give enlightenment.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[JerryfromMass]

@Downunder
@B-A-C

Hello there,

I would like to respond to your entries (replies #2 & #3). For it is true that people have professed to have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, but have then sadly departed from the faith, and B-A-C's list of verses confirm that. I at the moment have no defence to make, that is why I asked @JerryfromMass to take a look at that list of verses, and make a response.

May the Lord give enlightenment.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Sister,

As long as there has been a scriptural defense of the confident assurance of present and eternal salvation there has been a reproach to it. As for me, I believe in the certainty of knowing I have present and eternal salvation just as I believe in the certainty that God so loved the world that HE gave HIS only begotten Son so that ANYONE who believes in HIM shall not perish but have everlasting life, not because I say it's so but because God's word says it's so.

Amen.

 

[complete]

'Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes,
that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
It is a faithful saying:
For if we be dead with Him, we shall also live with Him:
If we suffer, we shall also reign with Him:
if we deny Him, He also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet He abideth faithful:
He cannot deny Himself.'
(2 Timothy 2:10-13)

Hello there,

Verse 13, in the passage quoted above has come to my mind.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Brother-Paul]

Hello @Brother-Paul,

I am aware that although Christ died for all men, that not all will be saved. However, I do believe that if the sinner recognises His sinfulness, and seeks God's mercy and grace, on the basis of the finished work of Christ, that He will be accepted in the Beloved, and made meet to partake of the inheritance of the saints in light.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

There is one word in your comments sister that jumps out at me, it is the word 'it'

Many think they are saved, but are they? They repent, they accept Jesus, they appear to walk the narrow way, on the narrow path, they say it with their lips, they say it in public with other believers, who also think they are saved. But it all comes from the lips and not the heart.

Matt 7:13-14
Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

The seed is there, but the soil is not fertile.

Our salvation is only assured when we have entered the narrow gate, not because we are on the narrow path. First we have to 'complete' the narrow path, get to the end by following the narrow way. Only then, when we go through the narrow gate, only then do we receive our inheritance with the saints who have also run the race, trodden the narrow path, remained in the narrow way, and entered by the narrow gate.

Many appear to be on the narrow path, they appear to be on the narrow way, but there will come a time when the truth in their heart is revealed... every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Matt 7:18-20

It appears that they have startex the journey of faith, they seemed to be on the narrow path, but then they 'fall away', the believers think they have fallen away, but they never had Jesus in their heart from the start.

They have 'fallen away' the brethen say, they have backsliding, they have returned to their first love, they never left their first love, their heart was always on the broad and wide road.

It is so important to get this right first before considering was a person saved and has fallen away.

Matt 7:4-15
Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing,... You will know them by their fruits

But a tree has to grow for a period before the fruit shows, not just that the blossom comes before the fruit. We are not to be deceived a person is saved when they are not, we are to encourage, feed and water and be patient with them, praying for them constantly, we have faith but do they?

It is just as wrong for us to think a person is saved when they are not, as it is to think they fell away when they were not in a position to be able to fall away.

Shalom

 

[KingJ]

There is one word in your comments sister that jumps out at me, it is the word 'it'

Many think they are saved, but are they? They repent, they accept Jesus, they appear to walk the narrow way, on the narrow path, they say it with their lips, they say it in public with other believers, who also think they are saved. But it all comes from the lips and not the heart.

This is a separate matter to losing salvation.

Asking this question interrogates the sincerity of a person. That is fine.

Asking if one can lose their salvation mocks the integrity of God. Not acceptable! Especially for a ''Christian'' who ''should'' know God.

As such, all of those here bar Complete and Jerry, are insulting God and pushing a works based salvation, how are you not?

This is what the devil pushes all day long. I am sure he is grateful for your long detailed unholy spirit filled posts.

 

[Brother-Paul]

This is a separate matter to losing salvation.

Asking this question interrogates the sincerity of a person. That is fine.

Asking if one can lose their salvation mocks the integrity of God. Not acceptable! Especially for a ''Christian'' who ''should'' know God.

As such, all of those here bar Complete and Jerry, are insulting God and pushing a works based salvation, how are you not?

This is what the devil pushes all day long. I am sure he is grateful for your long detailed unholy spirit filled posts.

In your opinion @King

I notice you cherry pick part of what was posted.

We pray for a person's salvation, we pray in faith, we believe when we pray. But hearts have to change, the spirit of God cannot enter an heart unless it is totally repentant.

A person may say the right things in public with believers, but did it come from the heart. A person may appear to be a sheep, because they said the right things to those who are saved. Appearing to be saved and being saved are poles apart, light and darkness apart.

We do not ask a person, as you put it, we pray for them constantly, we k ow if a seed is not in fertile soil and watered regularly it will on time die. We know we can tell a tree by its fruit, but first the tree has to grow, then blossom, before we are able to seeing the fruit is good or bad.

No one is questioning God, as you put it, God knows if a soul is saved or not, we are to pray and discern what we see, scripture tells us so much about this, and what to eat h for.

If anyone is insulting God, it has to be yourself, unless you have totally misunderstood what I put.

I appreciate it is a separate matter to losing salvation, but feel it is important that we are not considering someone who, appeared to be saved, as saved, when they are not. That consideration must come first, we will know by their fruits. It is s ripture based is it not?

Shalom