Can Salvation Be lost?

[complete]

You know what's funny? The work that Paul is talking about in Phil. 1:6 is something that that particular church was doing to help him in his ministry. He wasn't saying that God saved them. It's not even about salvation. The Philippian Church was helping Paul financially. People take it out of context all time.

'For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;
Being confident of this very thing,
that He which hath begun a good work in you
will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all,
because I have you in my heart;
inasmuch as both in my bonds,
and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel,
ye all are partakers of my grace.'
(Php 1:5-7)

Hello @Butch5,

The 'work' which God had begun in the readers of the epistle written by Paul to the Philippians, was a Divine work in Christ Jesus their Saviour, Lord and Head. It was, 'meet,' for Paul to think this of them, because he had them in his heart, in the bowels of Christ. He knew that they also partook of his grace, the grace of God in Christ Jesus. This has to have been the saving work of God at work within them, and manifested in and through them, in the manner in which they supported Paul in his ministry. Why should you believe otherwise?

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[complete]

“For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God”.
(Ephesians 2:8)

Hello again, @Butch5 and co.,

It is of extreme importance to note that salvation is a gift. But too many think of salvation as an agreement between themselves and God. That is to say that some think that because they have agreed to believe in Him, God will give them salvation. From that point they argue that if one party of the assumed “agreement” fails in that agreement, the agreement is cancelled.

But salvation is not an agreement, it is a gift. God gives this gift of salvation to those who believe in Him. Let us look at John 3:16 as an example of the message of salvation. 'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever should believe in Him shall….have everlasting life”. In other words, salvation is a gift that God chooses to give to only those who believe in Him. Salvation is not an agreement between man and God, it is a gift that God chooses to give to those who believe in Him.

It should also be noted that we read no less than nine times in the Word of God that one must believe in Christ in order to partake in this gift of salvation. I will quote those nine verses and ask the reader to please note that there is not one word of a condition attached to them. That is to say, surely if this gift could be withdrawn God would have explained when He offered it what the conditions were, but He did not. The gift of salvation is given to all those who believe and the gift cannot be withdrawn without God breaking His word. God cannot lie, and therefore, God cannot break His word. He promised the gift of salvation to those who believe in Him and that promise will be fulfilled, even if it is not appreciated.

Those nine verses that explain the gospel of salvation are:

Jn. 1:12, “But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name”.
Jn. 3:16, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life”.
Jn. 3:18, “He that believeth on Him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already”.
Jn. 6:40, “And this is the will of Him That sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day”.
Jn. 6:47, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on Me hath everlasting life”.
Jn. 11:25, “Jesus said unto her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life; he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live”.
Jn. 20:30-31, “And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life through His name”.
Acts 16:31, “And they said, ‘Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house”.
Rom. 3:26, “….that He might be just and the Justifier of him which believeth in Jesus“.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Butch5]

'For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;
Being confident of this very thing,
that He which hath begun a good work in you
will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all,
because I have you in my heart;
inasmuch as both in my bonds,
and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel,
ye all are partakers of my grace.'
(Php 1:5-7)

Hello @Butch5,

The 'work' which God had begun in the readers of the epistle written by Paul to the Philippians, was a Divine work in Christ Jesus their Saviour, Lord and Head. It was, 'meet,' for Paul to think this of them, because he had them in his heart, in the bowels of Christ. He knew that they also partook of his grace, the grace of God in Christ Jesus. This has to have been the saving work of God at work within them, and manifested in and through them, in the manner in which they supported Paul in his ministry. Why should you believe otherwise?

In Christ Jesus
our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris

When I see "this has to have been" it tells me that I'm looking at an assumption. Whether or not that assumption is correct would need to be established. And, we know that they supported Paul financially. However, God having started a good work in them doesn't speak about anyone else. It's speaks about them.

 

[complete]

Hello again @Butch5 and co.,

“In whom ye also trusted,
after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation:
in whom also after that ye believed
ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
which is the earnest of our inheritance
until the redemption of the purchased possession ….”.
(Eph. 1:13-14)

* Note the three words highlighted in this passage. We were sealed, with a promise which is the earnest or guarantee of resurrection. This guarantee is a promise which is given when we were sealed. This promise does not come with any conditions. Therefore, God, Who cannot lie, cannot break this promise of resurrection to all who had been sealed, i.e. all who are saved.

“And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish,
neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand“.
John 10:28,

* The Greek translated here “never” is “ou me”. The Companion Bible gives the following definition, “The two negatives when combined lose their distinctive meanings, and form the strongest and most emphatic asseverate. “ Had the Holy Spirit used the Greek “me” alone He would have given a conditional aspect to the statement of this verse. The Companion Bible definition of “me” is, “expressing conditional negation….”. But the Holy Spirit did not use the conditional word, He used the phrase which makes the statement that “they shall never perish” unconditional.

“Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him That loved us.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers,
nor things present, nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other creature
shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord”.
Romans 8:37-39,

“Being confident of this very thing,
that He Which hath begun a good work in you
will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ”.
Phil. 1:6,

* The Greek word translated “perform” is “epiteleo”. It is translated “perform” 4 times, “do” once. But it is also translated “accomplish” two times and “perfect” or “perfecting” or “made perfect” and “finish”. In other words “epiteleo” carries the idea of finishing the act. Therefore, the NIV translation gives a better sense of the meaning of this verse. “being confident of this, that He Who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus”. The work that was “begun” was obviously, salvation. Here we are told that that work will be completed. The term “until the day of Christ Jesus” refers to resurrection day. Therefore, we are told in this verse that God will complete the work of salvation at resurrection. Note there is no condition attached, and it is not man, but God Who will complete the work.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Butch5]

“For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God”.
(Ephesians 2:8)

Hello again, @Butch5 and co.,

It is of extreme importance to note that salvation is a gift. But too many think of salvation as an agreement between themselves and God. That is to say that some think that because they have agreed to believe in Him, God will give them salvation. From that point they argue that if one party of the assumed “agreement” fails in that agreement, the agreement is cancelled.

But salvation is not an agreement, it is a gift. God gives this gift of salvation to those who believe in Him. Let us look at John 3:16 as an example of the message of salvation. 'For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever should believe in Him shall….have everlasting life”. In other words, salvation is a gift that God chooses to give to only those who believe in Him. Salvation is not an agreement between man and God, it is a gift that God chooses to give to those who believe in Him.

It should also be noted that we read no less than nine times in the Word of God that one must believe in Christ in order to partake in this gift of salvation. I will quote those nine verses and ask the reader to please note that there is not one word of a condition attached to them. That is to say, surely if this gift could be withdrawn God would have explained when He offered it what the conditions were, but He did not. The gift of salvation is given to all those who believe and the gift cannot be withdrawn without God breaking His word. God cannot lie, and therefore, God cannot break His word. He promised the gift of salvation to those who believe in Him and that promise will be fulfilled, even if it is not appreciated.

Those nine verses that explain the gospel of salvation are:

Jn. 1:12, “But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name”.
Jn. 3:16, “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life”.
Jn. 3:18, “He that believeth on Him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already”.
Jn. 6:40, “And this is the will of Him That sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day”.
Jn. 6:47, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on Me hath everlasting life”.
Jn. 11:25, “Jesus said unto her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life; he that believeth in Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live”.
Jn. 20:30-31, “And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life through His name”.
Acts 16:31, “And they said, ‘Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house”.
Rom. 3:26, “….that He might be just and the Justifier of him which believeth in Jesus“.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Chris,

Surely you see the fallacy in this, right? This is Cherry picking. If these verses were all we had in Scripture you might be able to make this case. But, they're not. We have plenty of passages that explain the conditions that salvation is based on.

 

[Reba1]

When I see "this has to have been" it tells me that I'm looking at an assumption. Whether or not that assumption is correct would need to be established. And, we know that they supported Paul financially. However, God having started a good work in them doesn't speak about anyone else. It's speaks about them.

it speaks of God

 

[JerryfromMass]

Chris,

Surely you see the fallacy in this, right? This is Cherry picking. If these verses were all we had in Scripture you might be able to make this case. But, they're not. We have plenty of passages that explain the conditions that salvation is based on.

There is one condition I must meet for salvation: ONE. When I meet that condition, I am eternally sealed with God's promise: I am HIS eternally.

 

[complete]

Chris,

Surely you see the fallacy in this, right? This is Cherry picking. If these verses were all we had in Scripture you might be able to make this case. But, they're not. We have plenty of passages that explain the conditions that salvation is based on.

Hello @Butch5,

Perhaps you will supply the Scriptures concerned that we may consider them.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Brother-Paul]

The question remains. Why didn't He know them? For those who say it's as simple as believing in Jesus, these people believed in Jesus.
So something more must have been required.

Scripture says believe on the Lord and you will be saved, scripture says call on the Lord and you will be saved. There must be something more! There is, there are many who say, I believe, I call, that is why we have additional scriptures, to read ALL in context not to pick odd verses that suit what we think. Sadly preachers are as much to blame, I believe and I call has far more meaning when read with all of John 3:1-21 and Titus 3:4-7 to name just two scriptures

 

[Butch5]

Hello @Butch5,

Perhaps you will supply the Scriptures concerned that we may consider them.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris,
There have been plenty posted already.

 

[Downunder]

Well it is easy enough to claim eternal faithfulness living in first world countries with food in the fridge and the cats are fed,
but when the whole world is at war and the planet is a burning and the waters are poisonous to drink then we shall see just how valid OSAS is
when earthquakes are happening in diverse places and this planet is shaken
will Christians of all persuasions have the faith to rejoice in their salvation??
and the great falling away from faith and confidence in salvation will not be a problem because OSAS means you are still saved by grace.

 

[Downunder]

And yet Revelation informs us that
Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?”
7:14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

So obviously many who do not come through the great tribulation coming upon the whole world with their faith and testimonies intact will not be part of the above.

 

[JerryfromMass]

And yet Revelation informs us that
Rev 7:13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?”
7:14 I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

So obviously many who do not come through the great tribulation coming upon the whole world with their faith and testimonies intact will not be part of the above.

What? Come again?

 

[Downunder]

* Note the three words highlighted in this passage. We were sealed, with a promise which is the earnest or guarantee of resurrection.

This really is the hallmark of OSAS - the deliberate continual misreading of scriptures to support a doctrine not found in scripture:
Ephesians 1:14
(Weymouth) that Spirit being a pledge and foretaste of our inheritance, in anticipation of its full redemption--the inheritance which He has purchased to be specially His for the extolling of His glory.
(WEB) who is a pledge of our inheritance, to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of his glory.
(LSV) which is a deposit of our inheritance, to the redemption of the acquired possession, to the praise of His glory.
(LEB) who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.
Earnest - G728 ἀῤῥαβών arrhabōn
1) an earnest
1a) money which in purchases is given as a pledge or down payment that the full amount will subsequently be paid.

 

[complete]

Hi Chris,
There have been plenty posted already.

Hello @Butch5,

I respect your decision.

Thank you for engaging with me.
With love in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

This really is the hallmark of OSAS - the deliberate continual misreading of scriptures to support a doctrine not found in scripture:
Ephesians 1:14
(Weymouth) that Spirit being a pledge and foretaste of our inheritance, in anticipation of its full redemption--the inheritance which He has purchased to be specially His for the extolling of His glory.
(WEB) who is a pledge of our inheritance, to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of his glory.
(LSV) which is a deposit of our inheritance, to the redemption of the acquired possession, to the praise of His glory.
(LEB) who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.
Earnest - G728 ἀῤῥαβών arrhabōn
1) an earnest
1a) money which in purchases is given as a pledge or down payment that the full amount will subsequently be paid.

Hello @Downunder,

I am sorry you should feel that way about those who sincerely believe that salvation cannot be lost. For I most assuredly have not misread scripture to support my belief that the promises of God are sure, and that the gift of life will not withheld from those who have believed God's word concerning His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

Hello to all who have participated in this thread, I thank you for doing so, but am saddened by the lack of love, and accusation that I find expressed between brethren over this issue.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Brother-Paul]

I've that verse literally hundreds of times. But I am a full gospel believer.
I don't base my salvation on one or two verses.

1Jn 3:10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Matt 5:20; "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

1Jn 3:24; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

Hopefully you will read some of these verses and not say your last sentence again.

Amen

 

[Brother-Paul]

I would like to share the following link.

It argues for both camps, which many do not do, so I feel is well balanced in its comments and understanding of the scriptures, and that it worth reading with an open mind.

The message also considers the time and culture, which is very important, as it was a time of Jews and Jewish Christians, Judaism and early Christianity, were they believers or not?

Galatians - OSAS

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Greetings all.

Sister @complete who started this thread has requested it is closed.

Whilst we would not always do this, this thread is now 280 posts long and going round in circles.

I am confident that as you all pray and study the Bible the truth found therein will burn in your hearts and made clear

Be blessed and be a blessing

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
James 1: 5-7