What is the mind of Christ and how do we attain it?

[Faither]

Notice father that is there opinion of what it means. Belief to me is simple. Action is associated with a true belief. ( bearing good fruit)I ask Curtis where the bank is at,he tells me, I follow his instructions. WHY??? because I believe him.

Right, the definitions given in the Greek dictionaries are just the Greek scholars " opinions ". Lol

Instead of us perverting the mistranslated word " believe " into something it's not, why don't we just correctly understand pisteuo?

Your analogy is perfect! Instead of following Curtis, you followed Curtis's instructions. Christianity is faithing into a person, a relationship with a real living person. Not their words or promises.

 

[Curtis]

The words believe, believer, and believing, are the English language translation of the Greek word" pisteuo", used 248 times in the NT.

When the translators needed a word to correctly translate pisteuo into the English language, there wasn't one! The English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun Faith, like the Greek does. So they were forced to choose a different word that would come close to it, hence believe, believer, and believing. These words are part of pisteuo as a whole , but taken on their own is error. Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun" Belief " , not the noun " Faith ". The Greek language doesn't have the words believe, believer, and believing in their vocabulary. There is only pisteuo, moving towards God, and Apisteuo moving away from God. No middle or neutral ground.

Pisteuo, is the corresponding verb to the noun Pistis, where we get our English word Faith. Pisteuo being a verb is an action word. As pisteuo relates to the living God, the right question isn't what I think it means, but what the Greek dictionary says it means.

Vines, " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation of truth."

Strong's gives the disclaimer," pisteuo means NOT just to believe."

Pisteuo is an act, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence.

If you can consume this and have no questions, we could talk about what specific act, based upon what specific belief, sustained by what specific kind of confidence.

Faith (The Complete Word Study)

pístis; gen. písteōs, fem. noun from peíthō (G3982), to win over, persuade. Faith. Subjectively meaning firm persuasion, conviction, belief in the truth, veracity, reality or faithfulness (though rare). Objectively meaning that which is believed, doctrine, the received articles of faith.

Believe (strongs)

pist-yoo'-o
From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.


Believe (the complete Word study)

pisteúō; fut. pisteúsō, from pístis (G4102), faith. To believe, have faith in, trust. NT meanings:


The word "believe" means, "to have faith"

It is "possible" for a person to believe, and yet have "no faith", but it is "impossible" for a person to have faith and "not believe"!

The same is true for faith.

It is "possible" for a person to have works, yet have no faith, but it is "impossible" for a person to have faith without works!

How can a person "believe" biblically and yet have no faith, when to believe means to have faith?

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

How can a person believe that God rewards those who seek him if he has no faith to believe?

There are millions of people who claim they believe yet they have no faith, so their believing is not based on biblical faith!

Nobody can experience the mind of Christ in their life unless they have faith to believe it!

 

[Faither]

Faith (The Complete Word Study)

pístis; gen. písteōs, fem. noun from peíthō (G3982), to win over, persuade. Faith. Subjectively meaning firm persuasion, conviction, belief in the truth, veracity, reality or faithfulness (though rare). Objectively meaning that which is believed, doctrine, the received articles of faith.

Believe (strongs)

pist-yoo'-o
From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.


Believe (the complete Word study)

pisteúō; fut. pisteúsō, from pístis (G4102), faith. To believe, have faith in, trust. NT meanings:


The word "believe" means, "to have faith"

It is "possible" for a person to believe, and yet have "no faith", but it is "impossible" for a person to have faith and "not believe"!

The same is true for faith.

It is "possible" for a person to have works, yet have no faith, but it is "impossible" for a person to have faith without works!

How can a person "believe" biblically and yet have no faith, when to believe means to have faith?

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

How can a person believe that God rewards those who seek him if he has no faith to believe?

There are millions of people who claim they believe yet they have no faith, so their believing is not based on biblical faith!

Nobody can experience the mind of Christ in their life unless they have faith to believe it!

There is no such thing as " believing" in God, His word, or His promises for salvation.

The only Faith that saves is " a Continually surrendered life." If we have any expectations of something in return for the surrendered life, that's not a true surrender but a business deal or some kind of vending machine kind of process.

NT pisteuo or the application of Faith that saves is,

1) an act, "a Continually surrendered life."
2) based upon a Belief, " that God will accept the surrendered life." This is the only believing that has anything to do with saving Faith.
3) sustained by confidence, " by making all the many daily decisions that support the fact that our lives are not ours anymore but His now."

This basic understanding of the application of Faith," pisteuo " starts, tests, maintains, and completes the relationship with Christ here on Earth. Everything else is none of our business anymore, it's God's business now!

 

[Curtis]

There is no such thing as " believing" in God, His word, or His promises for salvation.

KJV
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

NIrv
1Pe 1:19 Instead, you were bought by the priceless blood of Christ. He is a perfect lamb. He doesn't have any flaws at all.
1Pe 1:20 He was chosen before God created the world. But he came into the world in these last days for you.
1Pe 1:21 Because of what Christ has done, you believe in God. It was God who raised him from the dead. And it was God who gave him glory. So your faith and hope are in God.

Amp
1Pe 1:19 But [you were purchased] with the precious blood of Christ (the Messiah), like that of a [sacrificial] lamb without blemish or spot.
1Pe 1:20 It is true that He was chosen and foreordained (destined and foreknown for it) before the foundation of the world, but He was brought out to public view (made manifest) in these last days (at the end of the times) for the sake of you.
1Pe 1:21 Through Him you believe in (adhere to, rely on) God, Who raised Him up from the dead and gave Him honor and glory, so that your faith and hope are [centered and rest] in God.
1Pe 1:19 But [you were purchased] with the precious blood of Christ (the Messiah), like that of a [sacrificial] lamb without blemish or spot.
1Pe 1:20 It is true that He was chosen and foreordained (destined and foreknown for it) before the foundation of the world, but He was brought out to public view (made manifest) in these last days (at the end of the times) for the sake of you.
1Pe 1:21 Through Him you believe in (adhere to, rely on) God, Who raised Him up from the dead and gave Him honor and glory, so that your faith and hope are [centered and rest] in God.

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

ESV
1Pe 1:18 knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold,
1Pe 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.
1Pe 1:20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
1Pe 1:21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Faither]

KJV
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
1Pe 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

NIrv
1Pe 1:19 Instead, you were bought by the priceless blood of Christ. He is a perfect lamb. He doesn't have any flaws at all.
1Pe 1:20 He was chosen before God created the world. But he came into the world in these last days for you.
1Pe 1:21 Because of what Christ has done, you believe in God. It was God who raised him from the dead. And it was God who gave him glory. So your faith and hope are in God.

Amp
1Pe 1:19 But [you were purchased] with the precious blood of Christ (the Messiah), like that of a [sacrificial] lamb without blemish or spot.
1Pe 1:20 It is true that He was chosen and foreordained (destined and foreknown for it) before the foundation of the world, but He was brought out to public view (made manifest) in these last days (at the end of the times) for the sake of you.
1Pe 1:21 Through Him you believe in (adhere to, rely on) God, Who raised Him up from the dead and gave Him honor and glory, so that your faith and hope are [centered and rest] in God.
1Pe 1:19 But [you were purchased] with the precious blood of Christ (the Messiah), like that of a [sacrificial] lamb without blemish or spot.
1Pe 1:20 It is true that He was chosen and foreordained (destined and foreknown for it) before the foundation of the world, but He was brought out to public view (made manifest) in these last days (at the end of the times) for the sake of you.
1Pe 1:21 Through Him you believe in (adhere to, rely on) God, Who raised Him up from the dead and gave Him honor and glory, so that your faith and hope are [centered and rest] in God.

Joh 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

ESV
1Pe 1:18 knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold,
1Pe 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.
1Pe 1:20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
1Pe 1:21 who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Ya , 248 times pisteuo is mistranslated as believe, believer, and believing. Kind of makes one wonder how and why this was allowed to happen.

Anytime you see the words believe, believer, and believing, replace those words with the correct definition of pisteuo. Which is, " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender."

This will be much more accurate than the mistranslation.

Just a suggestion.

This is something that should be highlighted first day of Bible school. If it isn't, there is no way God's word can be dicerned.

 

[Curtis]

There is no such thing as " believing" in God, His word, or His promises for salvation.

Act 16:30 Then he brought them out. He asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus. Then you and your family will be saved." (NIrv)

 

[Faither]

Act 16:30 Then he brought them out. He asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
Act 16:31 They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus. Then you and your family will be saved." (NIrv)

Correctly translated using the Greek dictionary.
Act 16:31, " surrender your life to the Lord Jesus, and live a life inspired by such surrender, then you and your family will be saved."

 

[Sue D.]

Isn't that what a person Is doing re: Acts 16:31. Isn't surrendering the same as believing in. at least in That context?! When a person Is 'being saved' -- part of that Is surrendering your life to the Lord Jesus.

 

[Faither]

Isn't that what a person Is doing re: Acts 16:31. Isn't surrendering the same as believing in. at least in That context?! When a person Is 'being saved' -- part of that Is surrendering your life to the Lord Jesus.

No.

 

[Sue D.]

Why not? Actually It's late -- nearly 11 pm. Will continue with this tomorrow.

 

[B-A-C]

Isn't surrendering the same as believing in.

Jas 2:19; You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

But do they always surrender to God's will?

 

[Curtis]

Correctly translated using the Greek dictionary.
Act 16:31, " surrender your life to the Lord Jesus, and live a life inspired by such surrender, then you and your family will be saved."

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

`A person can not biblically "believe" (which means to have faith ) in Jesus Christ until that person first has the faith that comes from Jesus Christ (the Word of God) (Romans 10:17)

 

[Sue D.]

Jas 2:19; You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

But do they always surrender to God's will?

Well -- your Scripture is correct If the demonic world is being talked about. But it Isn't. the contact that Jesus has with the demonic is when He is casting them out of a person. The demons obey out of fear of the power of Jesus Christ. But they can't be saved. People can be.

 

[Sue D.]

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

`A person can not biblically "believe" (which means to have faith ) in Jesus Christ until that person first has the faith that comes from Jesus Christ (the Word of God) (Romans 10:17)

Faith does come from hearing God's Word -- the belief in the persons' heart comes from hearing God's Word / the Holy Spirit's convicting power. A person has their entire life-time to either accept or reject -- only thing Is -- 'we' don't know how long our personal life time will be. 'we' like to think that we'll live a nice long life to live and Then decide to accept Christ After we've had all the 'fun' that we want. Only thing is -- we really only have Today to be living. We Assume 'tomorrow'.

"We" Could make our last trip to Walmart today because a shooter decides to go shopping, too. That Did happen in El Paso Texas a while back.

And the rapture Could happen 'soon and very soon' -- so -- it will be to Our advantage to be sure we are spiritually ready.

But back to the subject at hand -- a person needs to hear God's Word / the Gospel unto salvation in order To either accept or reject Him.

 

[Sue D.]

Ya , 248 times pisteuo is mistranslated as believe, believer, and believing. Kind of makes one wonder how and why this was allowed to happen.

Anytime you see the words believe, believer, and believing, replace those words with the correct definition of pisteuo. Which is, " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender."

This will be much more accurate than the mistranslation.

Just a suggestion.

This is something that should be highlighted first day of Bible school. If it isn't, there is no way God's word can be dicerned.

I realize that I'm going way back in the discussion with 'this' but your first comment -- "kind of makes one wonder how and why 'this' was allowed to happen."

Not sure I understand what the 'this' is that you're concerned about. My understanding is that the word "pisteuo" in the Greek has no direct word in the English. But that Part of that word Can be translated.

I'd commented the other day that my sister and brother-in-law are into translating from English to Brazilian Portugeese on a college / seminary level. They've commented that the Portugeese is much more descriptive that English is.
They communicate on a very regular basis with their Brazilian friends --just got back from a couple of weeks visit last week. I think what I'm trying to say is that translators do the best they can -- nothing is really 'allowed' to happen in the translating process. It's God's Word and He doesn't make or allow mistakes. "We" on the other hand -- tend to want to do our own 'thing' with the translation.

Isn't part of Christianity -- believing -- our personal surrendering To God's Word -- As born-again believers we will Want to 'surrender' to God's Word. To His Will. I will Want to follow His leading Because I trust His Word.
And Sometimes things happen in our lives that really make us wonder If God really Is in control. Like 'why does God allow bad things to happen to His people'. Maybe it's because 'people' are watching us to see how we Do react to bad circumstances. A bad accident -- do we shake our fist at God or do we show concern for those around us. Does bad language come pouring our of us when someone Does hit us. Or do we surprise the other person by Not getting mad and swearing at them. And how do we react in the E.R. Do people see a positiveness in our lives. Are we attracting people To Christ?

The Holy Spirit helps us to discern His Word.

oops -- another 'sermon'.

 

[Faither]

Why not? Actually It's late -- nearly 11 pm. Will continue with this tomorrow.

Your asking the right questions Sue, which is rare. I have alot to different aspects of this to share with you. I'll start with these two points, the two very different paths. I'm not suggesting we need to discover this new truth, but to rediscover this old truth.

You asked if " believing" in the scriptures is the same thing as surrendering. And I said no, this is why.
1)
Today's church world teaches that salvation happens when we " believe" in what Christ did and says as the result of what He did. In effect "accepting Him" as our Lord and savior. And at that moment of "belief", we receive the Spirit of Christ, once saved always saved. This philosophy comes directly from the mistranslated words believe, believer, and believing. I realize understandings vary after the " believe and recieve" beginning , but all are on the wrong path , the wide path where they agrue amongst themselves about " once saved always saved" .

2)
The correct path from a right understanding of pisteuo.

Like in example one, we are called out by the Father. We respond by turning from our way to the direction of the caller, this is simply repentance. We are being called to do something, to respond in some way. We've turned towards Him, now it's time to take our first act, our first step of Faith " pisteuo" towards Him.

Taking the correct definition of pisteuo out of the Greek dictionary word for word the first step looks like this. Our first step or pisteuo towards God is " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender". In effect we are offering Him our lives and will. Now, this is just the first step, God needs to deem our surrendered life as genuine or not. If you notice, there are two specific aspects of pisteuo, the surrender and the life that supports such surrender. So instead of us " accepting Him " , He is the one doing the accepting! He accepts our Faith, our faithing, our surrendered life, our pisteuo. And at this beginning stages of the salvation process, the surrendered life must be genuine. A half measure avails nothing.

I'll stop at this point of the journey for any questions you may have. But her are the major differences.

1) pisteuo is a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender, not believing in His word or promises.

2)we don't accept Christ, He accepts us or our Faith, our faithing, our pisteuo.

3)The English languages mistranslation of pisteuo has caused the object of Faith to be changed from God Himself a real living person, to Gods word and His promises.

4) another falsehood that comes from the mistranslation is that " pisteuo" can't have any work or effort attached to it, especially before recieving His Spirit. The Greek doesnt allow work and effort to be separated from pisteuo or saving Faith. True saving Faith or NT pisteuo is 95% courage, 4% tinacity, and 1% everything else. Pisteuo or true saving Faith will be the easiest and the hardest thing we will ever do in this world. This work and effort isn't trying to add to, replace, the finished work of Christ on Calvary, "Grace". Salvation is by Grace through Faith! Through pisteuo, through a Continually surrendered life!

 

[Faither]

And adding to my last post to you Sue, at the beginning or first step of Faithing towards God, no Spirit of Christ yet. In fact, there's many things that must happen and happen in the right order before Christ seals us with the Grace deposit or what we call the Spirit of Christ.

 

[Sue D.]

Just to let you know that I Am still here and re-reading a few times in between getting things done around the house.

 

[Sue D.]

Okay -- starting with point # 1 -- once saved always saved. Let's look at Ephesians 1:13 - 14 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise vs 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory."

The Holy Spirit won't leave a person until we are safely with Jesus Christ. If it were other-wise -- it would be a works-based salvation. As a result Of a person's salvation they will Want to please God -- but those things we do are Not to keep our salvation. If a person can't be certain Of their salvation -- isn't that saying that God somehow Isn't omnipotent? All powerful.

#2 -- God is omniscient -- He knows Everything -- our motives -- we Can't fool Him -- He knows us better than we know ourselves. He doesn't accept Us -- we accept Jesus Christ's shed blood as being sufficient to take care of All our sinfulness. We accept God's gift Of salvation or we reject it.

You call 'it' the Spirit of Christ -- isn't it the Holy Spirit.

Salvation Is our personal surrender to God through Jesus Christ's blood shed on the cross. Salvation is a person's being saved From eternity in hell // lake of fire and brimstone. And being saved TO a life in ultimately the New Jerusalem. But presently with Jesus Christ in heaven.

 

[Faither]

Just to let you know that I Am still here and re-reading a few times in between getting things done around the house.

No hurry Sue. It took me years and years to learn the things I'm sharing with you at one time. So rereading is something I would have suggested, but you're already doing it.