• Welcome to Talk Jesus

    A true bible based, Jesus centered online community. Join over 11,000 members today

    Register Log In

What is the mind of Christ and how do we attain it?

Users who viewed this discussion (Total:16)

Member
Okay -- starting with point # 1 -- once saved always saved. Let's look at Ephesians 1:13 - 14 "In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise vs 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory."

The Holy Spirit won't leave a person until we are safely with Jesus Christ. If it were other-wise -- it would be a works-based salvation. As a result Of a person's salvation they will Want to please God -- but those things we do are Not to keep our salvation. If a person can't be certain Of their salvation -- isn't that saying that God somehow Isn't omnipotent? All powerful.

#2 -- God is omniscient -- He knows Everything -- our motives -- we Can't fool Him -- He knows us better than we know ourselves. He doesn't accept Us -- we accept Jesus Christ's shed blood as being sufficient to take care of All our sinfulness. We accept God's gift Of salvation or we reject it.

You call 'it' the Spirit of Christ -- isn't it the Holy Spirit.

Salvation Is our personal surrender to God through Jesus Christ's blood shed on the cross. Salvation is a person's being saved From eternity in hell // lake of fire and brimstone. And being saved TO a life in ultimately the New Jerusalem. But presently with Jesus Christ in heaven.
I don't see any questions there so I guess we're done?

I thought we were discussing what the correct understanding of pisteuo is.
 
Active
Top Poster Of Month
Well -- we Are -- but Scripture is based on more than the useage of one word.

Do you agree with what I've presented?

You said there are most aspects to talk about relating to salvation.
 
Member
Well -- we Are -- but Scripture is based on more than the useage of one word.

Do you agree with what I've presented?

You said there are most aspects to talk about relating to salvation.
Okay, this is why I camp on the word pisteuo.

Contrary to popular understanding, just because someone hands you a Bible and says accept what's in it, doesn't make it ours.

If we don't have the Spirit of Christ in us, and we are not in Him, He is none of ours. What this means is if we don't have the Spirit of Christ, Christ, His word, and the promises in His word are not ours yet.

I've shown that the Word that communicates how we receive the Spirit of Christ ( pisteuo ) has been mistranslated into the English language. There is no believe and recieve! I've also shown what the correct understanding should be, as shown in the Greek dictionary.

If someone has yet to fulfill true pisteuo, God is still waiting for that someone to respond in saving Faith. So, they are still at the drawing of the Father stage of the salvation journey. They have yet to begin a Continually surrendered life, so no Holy Spirit has been given yet, which means Christ , His word, and the promises in His word are not theirs to even talk about yet.

So I don't talk with anyone about God's word until they can show it's theirs. By a right understanding of Faith and faithing. Pistis and Pisteuo.

If you have questions concerning pisteuo, I'm willing to discuss them.
 
Active
Top Poster Of Month
What do you mean by the Spirit of Christ -- as opposed to the Holy Spirit.

Okay -- let's back track a bit -- on This page. Or I Could flip flop back and forth.
 
Member
What do you mean by the Spirit of Christ -- as opposed to the Holy Spirit.

Okay -- let's back track a bit -- on This page. Or I Could flip flop back and forth.
Spirit of Christ and Holy Spirit are one in the same .

The Father , the Son and the Holy Spirit make up the God head. They are 3 separate entities, and one entity all the time at all times.
 
Active
Top Poster Of Month
The words believe, believer, and believing, are the English language translation of the Greek word" pisteuo", used 248 times in the NT.

When the translators needed a word to correctly translate pisteuo into the English language, there wasn't one! The English language doesn't have a corresponding verb to the noun Faith, like the Greek does. So they were forced to choose a different word that would come close to it, hence believe, believer, and believing. These words are part of pisteuo as a whole , but taken on their own is error. Believe, believer, and believing are corresponding verbs to the noun" Belief " , not the noun " Faith ". The Greek language doesn't have the words believe, believer, and believing in their vocabulary. There is only pisteuo, moving towards God, and Apisteuo moving away from God. No middle or neutral ground.

Pisteuo, is the corresponding verb to the noun Pistis, where we get our English word Faith. Pisteuo being a verb is an action word. As pisteuo relates to the living God, the right question isn't what I think it means, but what the Greek dictionary says it means.

Vines, " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation of truth."

Strong's gives the disclaimer," pisteuo means NOT just to believe."

Pisteuo is an act, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence.

If you can consume this and have no questions, we could talk about what specific act, based upon what specific belief, sustained by what specific kind of confidence.

you use the terms Spirit of Christ // Mind of Christ.

So how does a person become born again?
 
Member
you use the terms Spirit of Christ // Mind of Christ.

So how does a person become born again?
Salvation is by Grace through Faith! So my answer is " by Faith ".

By "Faith" is a noun. The application of " by Faith" the act is pisteuo.

What is the specific act of pisteuo or faithing that completes the " Grace through Faith" equation?

Vines : "pisteuo is a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender."

We are born again by starting, a tested, maintained, and completed surrendered life.

All that is required to fulfill this requirement is the call of the Father to Christ, and the response of a Continually surrendered life. God's word and the promises in His word are not a requirement, only pisteuo is!
 
Active
Top Poster Of Month
A lot of things go hand in hand.

My question Should have been -- how does a person get saved. But they're really the same thing. Being saved Is being born again.

so we have 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 or so "Moreover , brethren, I declare to you the Gospel ......by which also you are saved.......that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures and that He was buried, and that He roe again the third day according to the Scriptures." and He was also seen by Cephas, then by the twelve.

And there is Romans 10:9-10 "That is you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in y our heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation. and vs 13 "For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

And there is Ephesians 2:8 - 9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. Not of works, let anyone should boast."

So yes, there will be a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. The personal surrender to Him is our acknowledgment of our need For the Savior. on a personal basis. That there is nothing I can do to earn my way to salvation -- that it was all done on the cross -- the blood of Jesus Christ.

Your next sentence "we are born again by starting a tested, maintained and completed surrendered life" That bothers me a bit.

As long as we're on this earth -- we'll never be completely surrendered. Or am I thinking of sinless perfection. Because there Are some who Do believe that sinless perfection Can be attained here on earth. But that CAN be a prideful attitude.

"A Continually surrendered life." That Almost sounds like a spiritual eupotia. or a spiritual high all the time. that's not realistic is it?

I mean -- we All experience ups and down's in life. No one can live a Christian life wrapped up in bubble-wrap.

I think I agree with most everything you're saying -- I think.

And I Also know with no doubt at all , that I'm a born-again believer. :)

So -- your comments
 
Member
A lot of things go hand in hand.

My question Should have been -- how does a person get saved. But they're really the same thing. Being saved Is being born again.

so we have 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 or so "Moreover , brethren, I declare to you the Gospel ......by which also you are saved.......that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures and that He was buried, and that He roe again the third day according to the Scriptures." and He was also seen by Cephas, then by the twelve.

And there is Romans 10:9-10 "That is you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in y our heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth, confession is made unto salvation. and vs 13 "For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

And there is Ephesians 2:8 - 9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. Not of works, let anyone should boast."

So yes, there will be a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. The personal surrender to Him is our acknowledgment of our need For the Savior. on a personal basis. That there is nothing I can do to earn my way to salvation -- that it was all done on the cross -- the blood of Jesus Christ.

Your next sentence "we are born again by starting a tested, maintained and completed surrendered life" That bothers me a bit.

As long as we're on this earth -- we'll never be completely surrendered. Or am I thinking of sinless perfection. Because there Are some who Do believe that sinless perfection Can be attained here on earth. But that CAN be a prideful attitude.

"A Continually surrendered life." That Almost sounds like a spiritual eupotia. or a spiritual high all the time. that's not realistic is it?

I mean -- we All experience ups and down's in life. No one can live a Christian life wrapped up in bubble-wrap.

I think I agree with most everything you're saying -- I think.

And I Also know with no doubt at all , that I'm a born-again believer. :)

So -- your comments
Explain your understanding of how we are born again.
 
Active
Top Poster Of Month
I share my own personal testimony -- I grew up going to church -- every Sunday -- every service -- choirs, church camps. Parents were believers. I had a great head knowledge of Bible / salvation. I experienced the convicting power of the Holy Spirit many times. I wasn't a bad person at all. Very shy and not many friends. I'd stand during the invitation time holding onto the seat in front of us -- very strongly. During invitation time -- pastor would stand at the front of the church waiting momentarily for anyone who wanted to come forward for whatever reason. We always sat upstairs in the balcony -- was afraid that if I Did 'go forward' no one would see me and the service would end and I'd be run over by all the people leaving the church

Then my first year at Jr. Girl's camp. I went To camp. Clear Lake Camp, Iowa a lot of girls in the cabin and a younger lady as counselor. The first evening during counselor's hour, we were all sitting on our bunk beds and she went around the room asking us to share when we were saved and who led us to the Lord. Mostly it was their parents who led them to the Lord or their Sunday School teacher. I realized Then that I never had done that. And as the other girls took their turns, I figured that a couple of them were just making up Their stories so I could do the same thing. Well, time ran out before it came to be My turn. The next evening, the counselor said that one of the girls had come talk to her and she Did accept Christ as her Savior. And I thought, hmm, That could have been me. But, I didn't go talk to the counselor or anyone. At the end of the week, she asked if we'd all be baptized. None of us had been, so she thought it would be really nice to go forward Sunday morning as a group --down front and share that we wanted to be baptized. So -- there I was -- sort of stuck --I couldn't exactly refuse to join the other girls -- so I went along and got baptized a few weeks later.

Well -- the next summer my sister was getting married, and it was during camp week. So I had to stay home and get ready for that. The others came back and as was the usual thing -- everyone shared what they liked about camp. Several of the girls said that the speaker had shared More about salvation and what it meant and realized that they hadn't actually Been saved. And so that week they Did make sure of their own salvation. So at some point later - pastor made sure that everyone realized that a person didn't have to walk the aisle to be saved. A person could talk to God right where they were in their seat or Anywhere. And God would hear their prayer. And if a person wasn't sure they Were saved -- to talk to God about That, too. So -- that Wedn evening -- sitting in my pew at church -- I bowed my head and talked to God. That I wasn't sure if I really was saved. That I believed that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and that He died for my sins and was buried and rose again For Me. And that nothing I did helped my salvation at all. That I was sorry for my sins and wanted to be forgiven and then said thank you For my salvation. And Immediately there was a peacefulness in my heart. I could feel the presence of the Holy Spirit that had never been there before.

After That I realized that I needed to be re-baptized like those other girls had felt the need for. Because salvation Does come first and Then baptizm. So -- I sat in the second row from the front. And at the time of invitation, I simply moved from my seat to the row right in front of me. Pastor came over and I told him what I was there for. so -- a few weeks or so later -- I was baptized Again like those others were. And That time it Was different. It really meant something.

Being born again == the Holy Spirit brings conviction to a person's heart. A person yields To that conviction and accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. The Holy Spirit Then comes to indwell their heart and never leaves them until 'we' are safely with Jesus Christ. The person acknowledges their personal need For salvation and that nothing they can do themselves will help the salvation take place.

It's Also that baptizm by immersion Is a first step in obedience After that decision has been made in the person's heart. But it doesn't Complete salvation. Because every once in a while, there's a situation when the person Can't be baptized right away. For one reason or another it's just not possible. Theif on the cross is a great example of that. He had no opportunity To be baptized and Jesus Christ --on the cross -- assured him that that very day -- He would be in Paradise with Him.

There was also a situation years ago with the Grandparents of a young lady at a church we were at. Every summer their granddaughter came to visit for a while. One year, at VBS she accepted Christ as her personal Savior. Her parents came to pick her up and took her back home as usual. She shared with her parents what had happened with her and her desire to be baptized. Apparently she had be sprinkled as a baby and as far as her mom and Step Dad were concerned -- that was enough. She was told that if she still wanted to be baptized when she turned 18 that that was her choice as an adult. And then the parents moved away so that there would be no more interference with their Grandparent's religious beliefs. So -- could not be baptized when she wanted to be.

We Also knew a father and his son who were raised in the RCC -- the father was coming to a community Bible study and accepted Christ at some point. And then his son did the same thing. They felt a need to be baptized - then and there -- so they filled their bathtub with water and baptized each other.

So -- your comments. A Long response to a short question.
 
Member
I share my own personal testimony -- I grew up going to church -- every Sunday -- every service -- choirs, church camps. Parents were believers. I had a great head knowledge of Bible / salvation. I experienced the convicting power of the Holy Spirit many times. I wasn't a bad person at all. Very shy and not many friends. I'd stand during the invitation time holding onto the seat in front of us -- very strongly. During invitation time -- pastor would stand at the front of the church waiting momentarily for anyone who wanted to come forward for whatever reason. We always sat upstairs in the balcony -- was afraid that if I Did 'go forward' no one would see me and the service would end and I'd be run over by all the people leaving the church

Then my first year at Jr. Girl's camp. I went To camp. Clear Lake Camp, Iowa a lot of girls in the cabin and a younger lady as counselor. The first evening during counselor's hour, we were all sitting on our bunk beds and she went around the room asking us to share when we were saved and who led us to the Lord. Mostly it was their parents who led them to the Lord or their Sunday School teacher. I realized Then that I never had done that. And as the other girls took their turns, I figured that a couple of them were just making up Their stories so I could do the same thing. Well, time ran out before it came to be My turn. The next evening, the counselor said that one of the girls had come talk to her and she Did accept Christ as her Savior. And I thought, hmm, That could have been me. But, I didn't go talk to the counselor or anyone. At the end of the week, she asked if we'd all be baptized. None of us had been, so she thought it would be really nice to go forward Sunday morning as a group --down front and share that we wanted to be baptized. So -- there I was -- sort of stuck --I couldn't exactly refuse to join the other girls -- so I went along and got baptized a few weeks later.

Well -- the next summer my sister was getting married, and it was during camp week. So I had to stay home and get ready for that. The others came back and as was the usual thing -- everyone shared what they liked about camp. Several of the girls said that the speaker had shared More about salvation and what it meant and realized that they hadn't actually Been saved. And so that week they Did make sure of their own salvation. So at some point later - pastor made sure that everyone realized that a person didn't have to walk the aisle to be saved. A person could talk to God right where they were in their seat or Anywhere. And God would hear their prayer. And if a person wasn't sure they Were saved -- to talk to God about That, too. So -- that Wedn evening -- sitting in my pew at church -- I bowed my head and talked to God. That I wasn't sure if I really was saved. That I believed that Jesus Christ was the Son of God and that He died for my sins and was buried and rose again For Me. And that nothing I did helped my salvation at all. That I was sorry for my sins and wanted to be forgiven and then said thank you For my salvation. And Immediately there was a peacefulness in my heart. I could feel the presence of the Holy Spirit that had never been there before.

After That I realized that I needed to be re-baptized like those other girls had felt the need for. Because salvation Does come first and Then baptizm. So -- I sat in the second row from the front. And at the time of invitation, I simply moved from my seat to the row right in front of me. Pastor came over and I told him what I was there for. so -- a few weeks or so later -- I was baptized Again like those others were. And That time it Was different. It really meant something.

Being born again == the Holy Spirit brings conviction to a person's heart. A person yields To that conviction and accepts Jesus Christ as their personal Savior. The Holy Spirit Then comes to indwell their heart and never leaves them until 'we' are safely with Jesus Christ. The person acknowledges their personal need For salvation and that nothing they can do themselves will help the salvation take place.

It's Also that baptizm by immersion Is a first step in obedience After that decision has been made in the person's heart. But it doesn't Complete salvation. Because every once in a while, there's a situation when the person Can't be baptized right away. For one reason or another it's just not possible. Theif on the cross is a great example of that. He had no opportunity To be baptized and Jesus Christ --on the cross -- assured him that that very day -- He would be in Paradise with Him.

There was also a situation years ago with the Grandparents of a young lady at a church we were at. Every summer their granddaughter came to visit for a while. One year, at VBS she accepted Christ as her personal Savior. Her parents came to pick her up and took her back home as usual. She shared with her parents what had happened with her and her desire to be baptized. Apparently she had be sprinkled as a baby and as far as her mom and Step Dad were concerned -- that was enough. She was told that if she still wanted to be baptized when she turned 18 that that was her choice as an adult. And then the parents moved away so that there would be no more interference with their Grandparent's religious beliefs. So -- could not be baptized when she wanted to be.

We Also knew a father and his son who were raised in the RCC -- the father was coming to a community Bible study and accepted Christ at some point. And then his son did the same thing. They felt a need to be baptized - then and there -- so they filled their bathtub with water and baptized each other.

So -- your comments. A Long response to a short question.
Thanks for sharing part of your personal relationship with Christ. It wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment on your real life experience.

I hope something we've talked about will help you on your journey.
 
Member
What was Your salvation experience.
I'm being saved, so I'm still having the experience.

What I share with you isn't just a doctrine or theology, it's my personal experience in Christ.

I can only share what brought me to Him and how I responded, after that gets into the secret relationship we share.
 
Member
Okay -- I'm listening.
I was referring to the things I've been sharing for the past few days. I could share my understanding of the salvation process or journey, showing all the things that must happen and happen in the correct order if you'd like?
 
Active
Top Poster Of Month
It's 8:30 pm -- I think what you're referring to are the three stages of salvation -- Justification -- we have been saved. sanctification -- we are being saved. glorification -- we Will be saved // that was in the church message two weeks ago.
 

Similar threads


Top