Loyal
No Friend I did not.
Again why do you insist on this belief when scripture says different.
Its the Holy Spirit which worked through the Apostles Just like ALL born again Spirit Filled Believers.
Speaking In Tongues
Again why do you insist on this belief when scripture says different.
Its the Holy Spirit which worked through the Apostles Just like ALL born again Spirit Filled Believers.
Member
Sorry no. All believers are not Apostles. Apostles were foundational;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ;
You cannot show how scripture says differently.
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings Members,
Please try to keep the interaction on topic and refrain from remarks about each other and what we think they need.
The subject of 'speaking in tongues' has been and gone quite a few times here over the years and usually it ends up being a war against each other rather than men diligently studying Scripture and helping one another in the doing so.
If we could continue by looking at Scripture against Scripture, we might get somewhere... BUT if we forget and start comments about the other Member(s) we achieve nothing either for ourselves or the other and certainly nothing of any value for all who might be seeking to better understand both the subject and the reason why people become Christian, which surely is to glorify God in our love for one another as we have so been loved and come to know by grace the love that God has for us.... and that is poured out for all who would believe to receive, being in and through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
Bless you all ....><>
Please try to keep the interaction on topic and refrain from remarks about each other and what we think they need.
The subject of 'speaking in tongues' has been and gone quite a few times here over the years and usually it ends up being a war against each other rather than men diligently studying Scripture and helping one another in the doing so.
If we could continue by looking at Scripture against Scripture, we might get somewhere... BUT if we forget and start comments about the other Member(s) we achieve nothing either for ourselves or the other and certainly nothing of any value for all who might be seeking to better understand both the subject and the reason why people become Christian, which surely is to glorify God in our love for one another as we have so been loved and come to know by grace the love that God has for us.... and that is poured out for all who would believe to receive, being in and through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
Bless you all ....><>
Loyal
That's not at all what o said now is it,
What I said was.....
What the Holy Spirit did through the Apostles is NO Different from what He does through today's Spirit Filled Believer's.
Why is it you have ignored Mark 16:17?
Blessings
Member
I answered you twice on this...read from verse12 down to 20....the Lord confirmed their word with signs...read it.
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings,
thank you for these references. It is always beneficial to look at what is in Scripture regarding any topic we discuss.
Would you mind expanding a bit on what these references are about and how they relate or point to the occurrence at Jerusalem at Pentecost after Jesus had risen?
Bless you ....><>
thank you for these references. It is always beneficial to look at what is in Scripture regarding any topic we discuss.
Would you mind expanding a bit on what these references are about and how they relate or point to the occurrence at Jerusalem at Pentecost after Jesus had risen?
Bless you ....><>
Member
Sure...OT.Israel was mostly in rebellion against God despite having been blessed by God.
Isa1:9 is quoted by Paul in Roman's 9, God kept a remnant, an elect remnant as a base to transition from ot.worship to nt.church.
Isa65 also quoted in Roman's shows Gods purpose to use believing gentiles to provoke Israel to jealousy.
The sign gifts quoted from Joel2-3 in Acts2 signal this is THAT.
The new exodus has begun in Christ.
The holy place is now the heavenly Zion and Jerusalem hebrews12:22:29.
Moderator
Staff Member
Thank you for your reply,
Would it be correct to say that Old Testament Israel was right up until the Son of God was sent and given?
Would it be correct that the language or tongue used (in the Temple service at, least) was Hebrew?
And may I ask, referring to Gods purpose to use believing gentiles to provoke Israel to jealousy how does this/that fit in with 'speaking in tongues' ?
Should we be concerned about that today?
Do you think that Israel still needs to be provoked today? [note, may i suggest the purpose was and is for Israels good, not merely to provoke them?]
Has God forgotten His promise to Israel completely?
Should we be somewhat interested and willing to be part of any plan God has for Israel and be willing to do things according to His will above our own?
Thank you for taking the time to interact with me on this subject. (lots of questions! )
Bless you ....><>
Would it be correct to say that Old Testament Israel was right up until the Son of God was sent and given?
Would it be correct that the language or tongue used (in the Temple service at, least) was Hebrew?
And may I ask, referring to Gods purpose to use believing gentiles to provoke Israel to jealousy how does this/that fit in with 'speaking in tongues' ?
Should we be concerned about that today?
Do you think that Israel still needs to be provoked today? [note, may i suggest the purpose was and is for Israels good, not merely to provoke them?]
Has God forgotten His promise to Israel completely?
Should we be somewhat interested and willing to be part of any plan God has for Israel and be willing to do things according to His will above our own?
Thank you for taking the time to interact with me on this subject. (lots of questions! )
Bless you ....><>
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings again,
you mentioned a passage from 1Corinthians
I thought it may help if it is readable here
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear Me, saith the Lord.
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
1Corinthians 14:20-22
which brings to mind:
As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil
Jeremiah 44:16-17
Bless you ....><>
you mentioned a passage from 1Corinthians
I thought it may help if it is readable here
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear Me, saith the Lord.
Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
1Corinthians 14:20-22
which brings to mind:
As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil
Jeremiah 44:16-17
Bless you ....><>
Member
I believe the covenant curses from the song of Moses found in Deut28-33 have come upon Israel when the majority rejected Jesus.
Mt.21:33-45. He came looking for fruit as in isa5...
Member
sister ,please dpnt just ask anyone on internet. That is very serious ! It is our life! There are people who dont have the Holy Spirit, so they come to you with Theology and opinions ..but can you rally trust someone who dont even has the real Holy Spirit?
Anyway , there is the Gift of the tongues and there are rules about how and when operate and there is the Prayer language you have after you receive the Spirit. You can control your spiritual language (pray loud or even stop) but you can not control the Present of the Holy Spirit. That is the baptism with the Spirit and there is a difference at the charisma of tongues and the gift of the Spirit itself.
Anyway i am not the one who teaches you so i leave you with this"
Take your Bible together and listen everything here. If anything is not in your Bible then dont listen anything.
speaking in tongues:
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Active
Speaking in Tongues is very biblical and is done honestly by many people. It is biblical that if some are speaking tongues, there must be an interpreter for those who don't, or it is advised not to speak publicly in tongues because the church as a whole is not edified. Tongues is not required for salvation.
Member
No one is speaking in tongues today.
They did by the Apostles not now
They did by the Apostles not now
Member
Gino Jenkins is not an Apostle, but another false teacher. Do not listen to such nonsense.
[Moderator Note:
the video 'Gino Jenkins' has been removed]
[Moderator Note:
the video 'Gino Jenkins' has been removed]
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Member
If you had the same Spirit then you should then have a little fear of how you speak of someone and especially of a child of God! wow !!! Please .Lord forgive them! (spiritual things are only understood though the Holy Spirit, so my advise is not even try without this, "ask and you will receive" bother then and only then you can "see" the Kingdom).
thanks.
(i can give you plenty scriptures that prove tongues are for today too and nowhere the Bible says that tongues were for preach the gospel in a certain language. but i am sure you will not understand (except if you repent and admit you dont..have the Spirit of Jesus ) but if you do please let me know.
Member
False Apostles are not my brother...they are false.
I am confident you have not studied the issue and cannot present anything you claim. They did speak in tongues in the first century, yes. not now however.
You offering 1 cor 12-14 does not prove anything as everyone knows they did speak in tongues, actual languages...not the silly rhyming noises you do in the flesh and then try to claim you speak in a secret prayer language.
Member
You are still blasphemy...my friend i have scripture but you ca not understand scripture without the Holy Spirit. (the whole CHURCH today receive the Spirit just like the Apostolic times "the promise is for you and your children and for everyone that God will call"there are FAKE tongues and FAKE manifestations but there is also the REAL thing)
Can you please delete my account of your forum?
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings @pet
please let me encourage you [ and all others who read this ] that when talking about topics it is always best to try to refrain from 'having a go' at each other. It never does anything to help you or your cause.
If we don't agree, deal with the points we don't agree with and not the person who made the points. We can all learn from each other and we will only learn from the Lord if we love one another in our agreements and differences.
Let us remember that it was while we were yet enemies; sinners, Christ died for us. We were not in agreement with Him. We had no part in what He said nor what we have written in the Scripture. So let us ALL learn a lesson from Him, and discuss His Word with gentleness, meekness and humility.
If someone is out of line, show them gracefully the right way but remember too, that we should use Scripture to make our points in threads like this and allow others to counter so that all can learn and see what Scripture says about Scripture, rather than what member says about member.
Perhaps we all should watch our tongues?
But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
James 3:17
The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make His face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
Numbers 6:24-26
Bless you ....><>
Member
Holy Spirit is for you today:
Luke 11: 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
Jesus told us to keep praying and ask! We have to (listen) and then believe and ask!
Jews were asking Peter what is this "speaking in tongues" and some thought they were drunk:
2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
But Peter said "this what you hear and see" so that means that there was an evidence!
well some people say "is not for today, but Peter said to them:
2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, [even] as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Is for all! It was not just for those days but for every Christian in the future till today!
Jesus himself at Mark 16 said that this evidence will fallow Church too "in my name they will speak other tongues' (of course we dont follow the signs! but the signs fallow us! i say that because yes the evidence of receiving the Spirit is ,speak in tongues, but that does not means that everyone who speaks in tongues has the real Holy Spirit!)
Some say that tongues was to help them preach in languages that Apostles did not knew
well... that is not truth!
1) Because Peter did not evangelised anyone while speaking in tongues.
2) No Apostle ever spoke to tongues for preaching to Gentiles
3) Paul said that " 1 Cor.14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine? So tongues are not for preaching or teaching!
Speaking in tongues is for building our spirit:
14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.; 16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
Here we observe some things:
-Paul compare speaking in tongues with praying in the Spirit!
-Paul knows that the other person will not understand nothing! So is not pottible that the gift of tongues were to preach the Gospel! :smile:
Tongues as initial evidence:
Acts 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
8: 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, (what was Simon saw and understood they received the Spirit?):
10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. ; 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, (that is how they understood that the Holy Spirit felt on them! they were listening them to speak in tongues!!!)
19: 5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. Samaritans too spoke in tongues! (we will speak for them latter)
Now lovely child of God ,does the Holy Spirit dwells in us imidiatly when we believe?
NO! 3 examples:
-1st)14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) 17 Then laid they [their] hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
(Samaria received Christ, believed the Gospel, saw many miracles from the Evangelists hands and "they had great joy" :smile: (sure the Spirit did the miracles, and also we know that only one who is touched by the Spirit can believe and repent of their sins) but they did not had the Holy Spirit!
-2nd) 17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
and is baptized by Ananias
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.
ok that is one of the many verses that one believed but not had the Spirit , the Apostles were like that and in general only those who listen the whole ghospel and obey ,actually receive the Spirit.Is like Christ, you have toi listen and then believe .
-3rd)1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, 2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. 3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. 4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. 5 When they heard [this], they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. !!!!!
First observation :
1) Paul asked them IF they got the Holy Spirit when (or after) they believed! why to ask them if it was top be received while they first believed?
The people who listened Peter`s preaching at chapter 2 neither received immediately , why did not received the Spirit when they believed ?
2) Ephesians beleived through the preaching of Apolos! but wlao were not baptised in the Spirit (just like Samaritans). Paul writes some years later to them;
Ephesians 1: 13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Do you see? :smile: that verse was used falsely by thoise who dont believe at the Baptism ,but it speaks for that experience they had when we read in Acts how they came to believe and receive the Spirit!
3) Like we saw before the first thing that happened when they received the Spirit was to :speak in tongues"
Now lovely i let yoy research and take action (they only requirement is "feel the need" , "feel poor" and then "believe and ask your Father with faith and trust Him He will give you ,because this is His will!"
αfter all Jesus died for cleaning us ,so that we will able to receive His Holy Spirit!:
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Amen! :smile: