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You've been told enough here in the thread and you will not listen. You do not have a teachable spirit.
You're claiming to be sinless, even though you live in the flesh. Give me a break.
Who Is The Old Man?
You've been told enough here in the thread and you will not listen. You do not have a teachable spirit.
You're claiming to be sinless, even though you live in the flesh. Give me a break.
Loyal
Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
John 8:12
Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
Luke 1:79
To give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.”
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
John 8:12
Again Jesus spoke to them, saying, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
Luke 1:79
To give light to those who sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.”
Loyal
So by your own words you do unfruitful work which is darkness, @regibassman57
1 John 1:5-7
This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 1:5-7
This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
Active
@Chad,
Do you understand what this verses means?
Colossians 2:11
In whom also "YOU" are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in "PUTTING OFF" the "body" of the "SINS OF THE FLESH"by the circumcision of Christ:
Question, does Christ live in your body? If you sin, Christ cannot dwell in you and remain. This is why He had to "circumcise" you before He came to abide in you. Your "body" is the temple of the Holy Ghost where Christ reside "inside you." Sin separated you from God, and you were dead "IN" sin. Once Christ removed your sin (as 1John 1:9 teaches), He filled you with His Spirit. Christ is not "imputing sin" unto you. The only other way you can recognize sin is through the law. If you sin you are under the law.
Chad, when you were "dead in your sin" and in your "uncircumcised flesh" Christ "quickened you together with Him, forgiving you "ALL" your sins (Col. 2:13). Christ quickened your flesh. This is why you can only live "after" the flesh. You cannot live "in" the flesh. If you were "in" the flesh you would sin; but because you are "in" Christ He doesn't impute sin into you. In Christ you cannot sin so if you walk "after" the flesh, you do not develop Christ's fruit/character. This is why Christ calls it "unfruitful work." you are dead to sin in Christ according to scripture.
Chad, you made a specific statement that has never been addressed. No one on this forum has posted any scripture presenting scripture based on your statement. There is nowhere in scripture that teaches unfruitful works is sin.
Sin brings forth fruit; unfruitful works has no fruit.
Romans 7:5
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our body to "bring forth fruit" unto death.
Sin can only develop by the law. Sin strengthens and develops the "fruit" of unrighteousness which is developed "only" by the law. The wages of sin is death.
Unfruitfulness is through the Grace of God because God is not inputting sin unto believers for their actions. God inputed all man's sins unto Jesus Christ and Christ condemned sin. When a sinner repents and comes to Christ, God imputes "only" righteousness unto those that believe. Because a believer is "hid in Christ's" body and bought with a price, they cannot sin or take themselves out of Christi's body where there is no sin but only righteousness. A believer's nature in only righteous. Righteousness cannot develop unrighteousness.
Titus 3:14
And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.
Do you understand what this verses means?
Colossians 2:11
In whom also "YOU" are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in "PUTTING OFF" the "body" of the "SINS OF THE FLESH"by the circumcision of Christ:
Question, does Christ live in your body? If you sin, Christ cannot dwell in you and remain. This is why He had to "circumcise" you before He came to abide in you. Your "body" is the temple of the Holy Ghost where Christ reside "inside you." Sin separated you from God, and you were dead "IN" sin. Once Christ removed your sin (as 1John 1:9 teaches), He filled you with His Spirit. Christ is not "imputing sin" unto you. The only other way you can recognize sin is through the law. If you sin you are under the law.
Chad, when you were "dead in your sin" and in your "uncircumcised flesh" Christ "quickened you together with Him, forgiving you "ALL" your sins (Col. 2:13). Christ quickened your flesh. This is why you can only live "after" the flesh. You cannot live "in" the flesh. If you were "in" the flesh you would sin; but because you are "in" Christ He doesn't impute sin into you. In Christ you cannot sin so if you walk "after" the flesh, you do not develop Christ's fruit/character. This is why Christ calls it "unfruitful work." you are dead to sin in Christ according to scripture.
Chad, you made a specific statement that has never been addressed. No one on this forum has posted any scripture presenting scripture based on your statement. There is nowhere in scripture that teaches unfruitful works is sin.
Sin brings forth fruit; unfruitful works has no fruit.
Romans 7:5
For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our body to "bring forth fruit" unto death.
Sin can only develop by the law. Sin strengthens and develops the "fruit" of unrighteousness which is developed "only" by the law. The wages of sin is death.
Unfruitfulness is through the Grace of God because God is not inputting sin unto believers for their actions. God inputed all man's sins unto Jesus Christ and Christ condemned sin. When a sinner repents and comes to Christ, God imputes "only" righteousness unto those that believe. Because a believer is "hid in Christ's" body and bought with a price, they cannot sin or take themselves out of Christi's body where there is no sin but only righteousness. A believer's nature in only righteous. Righteousness cannot develop unrighteousness.
Titus 3:14
And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.
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@Dave,
Again, John is talking to unbelievers in 1John 1-10. Believers are in the body of Christ where there is not darkness at all. If a believer cannot leave the body of Christ where there is only light, how can a believer walk in darkness in the body of Christ where there is no darkness at all? Darkness is sin... But you are dead to darkness and alive in the light.
Colossians 3:3
For you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Once "you" became born again, you died to the world and your life became hid in Christ. The question to you would be who are you? Are you the flesh? Or are you the new creation hid in Christ?
Again, John is talking to unbelievers in 1John 1-10. Believers are in the body of Christ where there is not darkness at all. If a believer cannot leave the body of Christ where there is only light, how can a believer walk in darkness in the body of Christ where there is no darkness at all? Darkness is sin... But you are dead to darkness and alive in the light.
Colossians 3:3
For you are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Once "you" became born again, you died to the world and your life became hid in Christ. The question to you would be who are you? Are you the flesh? Or are you the new creation hid in Christ?
Active
@Chad,
Sinless perfection is possible in this life. Of course 100%
Matthew 13:23
But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world:but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
God's "perfect" will is a person that brings forth 100% fruit.
God's "good" will is a person that brings forth 60% fruit.
God's "acceptable" will is a person that brings forth 30% fruit.
Out of the mouths of two or three witnesses every word is established. These are the words of Jesus and the Spirit confirmed Christ.
Sinless perfection is possible in this life. Of course 100%
Matthew 13:23
But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world:but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
God's "perfect" will is a person that brings forth 100% fruit.
God's "good" will is a person that brings forth 60% fruit.
God's "acceptable" will is a person that brings forth 30% fruit.
Out of the mouths of two or three witnesses every word is established. These are the words of Jesus and the Spirit confirmed Christ.
Loyal
No he isn't, He is talking to children, young men and fathers. 3 different levels of maturity in the church.
Do you think God and and Jesus can't see anything thats hidden? Again, this isn't a one time thing. We have to die daily.
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Staff Member
@regibassman57
Greetings,
I noticed that when you tag your fellow Member, Dave M, you leave out the M part and are actually tagging a different Member named Dave.
Dave M would not get your tags.
The Member Dave would have received many tags from you which have nothing to do with him, so please show courtesy in this matter.
Could you please tag properly or if you prefer, do not tag at all (by tag I mean writing @ before a members name)
You could greet or address the member a different way if it is easier? Also, I noticed that when tagging others you need to spell their name with spaces etc.
For the most part, one usually gets a drop-down list of members names to choose from, as they type. Selecting the correct one is the correct way.
Grace and Peace
Bless you ....><>
Greetings,
I noticed that when you tag your fellow Member, Dave M, you leave out the M part and are actually tagging a different Member named Dave.
Dave M would not get your tags.
The Member Dave would have received many tags from you which have nothing to do with him, so please show courtesy in this matter.
Could you please tag properly or if you prefer, do not tag at all (by tag I mean writing @ before a members name)
You could greet or address the member a different way if it is easier? Also, I noticed that when tagging others you need to spell their name with spaces etc.
For the most part, one usually gets a drop-down list of members names to choose from, as they type. Selecting the correct one is the correct way.
Grace and Peace
Bless you ....><>
Active
@Dave M,
Believers that say they sin are exposing themselves. How can a believer sin if they are "hid" in Christ where we've just read there is no darkness at all neither sin? How can a believer not be under or justified by the law, but they sin? How can a believer sin in the flesh, if Christ circumcised (cut out) sin out of their flesh? How can a believer have the nature of sin in their heart, if they've been given the nature of a new heart and a new Spirit. The new Spirit and nature is Christ, and the old spirit was Satan. How can a believer that has been "delivered" out of the power of darkness, still abide in darkness and sin?
Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
YOU SHALL KNOW THEM BY THIER FRUIT.
Matthew 7:17
Even so every "GOID TREE" brings forth "GOOD FRUIT;" but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.
A Christian that says, "I sin," are good trees bringing forth evil fruit which is impossible. Either they bring forth good fruit or no fruit at all. This is known as an"unfruitful" believer.
Matthew 7:18
A good tree "CANNOT" bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Believers that say they sin are exposing themselves. How can a believer sin if they are "hid" in Christ where we've just read there is no darkness at all neither sin? How can a believer not be under or justified by the law, but they sin? How can a believer sin in the flesh, if Christ circumcised (cut out) sin out of their flesh? How can a believer have the nature of sin in their heart, if they've been given the nature of a new heart and a new Spirit. The new Spirit and nature is Christ, and the old spirit was Satan. How can a believer that has been "delivered" out of the power of darkness, still abide in darkness and sin?
Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
YOU SHALL KNOW THEM BY THIER FRUIT.
Matthew 7:17
Even so every "GOID TREE" brings forth "GOOD FRUIT;" but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.
A Christian that says, "I sin," are good trees bringing forth evil fruit which is impossible. Either they bring forth good fruit or no fruit at all. This is known as an"unfruitful" believer.
Matthew 7:18
A good tree "CANNOT" bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Active
@Dave M,
Believers that say they sin are exposing themselves. How can a believer sin if they are "hid" in Christ where we've just read there is no darkness at all neither sin? How can a believer not be under or justified by the law, but they sin? How can a believer sin in the flesh, if Christ circumcised (cut out) sin out of their flesh? How can a believer have the nature of sin in their heart, if they've been given the nature of a new heart and a new Spirit. The new Spirit and nature is Christ, and the old spirit was Satan. How can a believer that has been "delivered" out of the power of darkness, still abide in darkness and sin?
Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
YOU SHALL KNOW THEM BY THIER FRUIT.
Matthew 7:17
Even so every "GOID TREE" brings forth "GOOD FRUIT;" but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.
A Christian that says, "I sin," are good trees bringing forth evil fruit which is impossible. Either they bring forth good fruit or no fruit at all. This is known as an"unfruitful" believer.
Matthew 7:18
A good tree "CANNOT" bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Believers that say they sin are exposing themselves. How can a believer sin if they are "hid" in Christ where we've just read there is no darkness at all neither sin? How can a believer not be under or justified by the law, but they sin? How can a believer sin in the flesh, if Christ circumcised (cut out) sin out of their flesh? How can a believer have the nature of sin in their heart, if they've been given the nature of a new heart and a new Spirit. The new Spirit and nature is Christ, and the old spirit was Satan. How can a believer that has been "delivered" out of the power of darkness, still abide in darkness and sin?
Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
YOU SHALL KNOW THEM BY THIER FRUIT.
Matthew 7:17
Even so every "GOID TREE" brings forth "GOOD FRUIT;" but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.
A Christian that says, "I sin," are good trees bringing forth evil fruit which is impossible. Either they bring forth good fruit or no fruit at all. This is known as an"unfruitful" believer.
Matthew 7:18
A good tree "CANNOT" bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Active
Active
@B-A-C,
Show it to me in your explanation "with" the scriptures that 1John 1 is not as I explained? If a person is honest about what they say, there should be no problem explaining your position. Show me how you came the your conclusion. I explained myself and opened myself up for criticism. So since you're saying I got it wrong - explain my understanding away with what you believe is the truth and let the truth be. Again, no opinions. I've already said the book of 1John is talking to a mixed audience, but it depends on what chapter your reading and what verses. 1John 1-10 is talking to unbelievers and I've used scripture to make my point.
Show it to me in your explanation "with" the scriptures that 1John 1 is not as I explained? If a person is honest about what they say, there should be no problem explaining your position. Show me how you came the your conclusion. I explained myself and opened myself up for criticism. So since you're saying I got it wrong - explain my understanding away with what you believe is the truth and let the truth be. Again, no opinions. I've already said the book of 1John is talking to a mixed audience, but it depends on what chapter your reading and what verses. 1John 1-10 is talking to unbelievers and I've used scripture to make my point.
Active
@Life,
A person is either "UNDER" the law or they are "UNDER" Grace; you cannot be "UNDER" both. Believers are not "UNDER" the law (at all), but "UNDER" Grace (Rom. 6:14).
If a person is "UNDER" the law and breaks the law, that person has sinned. If a person is "NOT UNDER" the law, that person "cannot sin" or have the "knowledge of sin" because the law does not say to them they've sinned.
Now we know that "whatever" the law" says, it saith to them who are "UNDER" the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for "by the law " is the "knowledge of sin" (Rom. 3:19, 20).
If a person says they sin, it's because they are under/justifying themselves by the law - ignorantly or not. The law has "dominion and power" over a person under it and "imputes sin" unto that person if they stumble "one" time.
1 Cor 15:56; The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
The power of "sin" is the law because a person "under that law" is subjected to what the law says. A believer "UNDER" Grace is not subjected to the law imputing sin unto them, because they are not "UNDER" the law. The law "ONLY" imputes sin to those that are "sinners" and those that "justify" themselves by the law. A person cannot know they've sinned unless they are "UNDER" the law. It is only by the law that a person has the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:19
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
"Jas 2:10; For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all."
This scripture is saying a person is guilty before God which confirms Romans 3:19. A person is "ONLY" guilty if they are "UNDER" the law. If a person is "NOT UNDER" the law, God is not "imputing sins" unto that person. Therefore, they will not feel guilty because they have no knowledge of sin.
Romans 5:13
For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is "not imputed" when there is no law.
Romans 4:7, 8
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
God is not imputing sins unto believers in two ways. First, the believer is not under the law, therefore, sin cannot be impute. Secondly, Jesus came and took man's sins upon Himself by God imputing all man's sins unto Jesus Christ, and then imputed the righteousness of Christ unto believers. Because Christ condemned sin, He was "quickened" from sin - and every person that believes in Him is also "quickened" from sins and reaps the benefit of Christ in the Spirit. Believers are in the spiritual body of Christ, and Christ is in the body of believers. The body of believers have become the temple of the Holy Ghost once their sins have been circumcised, (out of their body), and they have been given a new heart (1Cor. 6:19, 20; Eze. 36:26).
Colossians 2:11
In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Jesus Christ has cut out the sin nature that was in the body of believers that He may come and reside in the hearts of believers. Sin has been crucified and condemned (through faith) in the body of all believers.
Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
A person is either "UNDER" the law or they are "UNDER" Grace; you cannot be "UNDER" both. Believers are not "UNDER" the law (at all), but "UNDER" Grace (Rom. 6:14).
If a person is "UNDER" the law and breaks the law, that person has sinned. If a person is "NOT UNDER" the law, that person "cannot sin" or have the "knowledge of sin" because the law does not say to them they've sinned.
Now we know that "whatever" the law" says, it saith to them who are "UNDER" the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for "by the law " is the "knowledge of sin" (Rom. 3:19, 20).
If a person says they sin, it's because they are under/justifying themselves by the law - ignorantly or not. The law has "dominion and power" over a person under it and "imputes sin" unto that person if they stumble "one" time.
1 Cor 15:56; The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;
The power of "sin" is the law because a person "under that law" is subjected to what the law says. A believer "UNDER" Grace is not subjected to the law imputing sin unto them, because they are not "UNDER" the law. The law "ONLY" imputes sin to those that are "sinners" and those that "justify" themselves by the law. A person cannot know they've sinned unless they are "UNDER" the law. It is only by the law that a person has the knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:19
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
"Jas 2:10; For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all."
This scripture is saying a person is guilty before God which confirms Romans 3:19. A person is "ONLY" guilty if they are "UNDER" the law. If a person is "NOT UNDER" the law, God is not "imputing sins" unto that person. Therefore, they will not feel guilty because they have no knowledge of sin.
Romans 5:13
For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is "not imputed" when there is no law.
Romans 4:7, 8
Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
God is not imputing sins unto believers in two ways. First, the believer is not under the law, therefore, sin cannot be impute. Secondly, Jesus came and took man's sins upon Himself by God imputing all man's sins unto Jesus Christ, and then imputed the righteousness of Christ unto believers. Because Christ condemned sin, He was "quickened" from sin - and every person that believes in Him is also "quickened" from sins and reaps the benefit of Christ in the Spirit. Believers are in the spiritual body of Christ, and Christ is in the body of believers. The body of believers have become the temple of the Holy Ghost once their sins have been circumcised, (out of their body), and they have been given a new heart (1Cor. 6:19, 20; Eze. 36:26).
Colossians 2:11
In whom also you are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Jesus Christ has cut out the sin nature that was in the body of believers that He may come and reside in the hearts of believers. Sin has been crucified and condemned (through faith) in the body of all believers.
Colossians 2:13
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Moderator
Staff Member
Greetings again,
theologically this is a difficult topic but we CAN give thanks to God and trust Him with ... in fact we should, we MUST. Oft-times we can get in a tangle attempting to put the carnal mind into a spiritual mind. It never goes the other way. Perhaps we do so because we get a little lured by the flesh to appease the fleshy mind of the Old Man?
It is good, however, for the bretheren to dwell together in unity and to esteem the other better than themselves, always listening and obeying the Spirit, in ALL things.
I am seeing more and more that most are caught up in a worldly dispute of confusion and few, very few, are willing to let go and let God have a say.
Regarding your post, I have no trouble with what you have presented but other Scripture does come to mind. This may be the case for others, too? Does that mean any is better than the other; as it is God Who gives and that, to us who have received, and have done so by grace, for all have sinned and none are worthy.
What do we do with Scriptures from the Book of Revelation where the Spirit says to the Churches.... repent or unless you repent.?
How can we fit this in to the above that you wrote? Is there a way and if so good but if not, we must go back to that which we do know and settle there a while.... namely, Christ and Him crucified. There is a massive amount of meat there alone for those who have ears and eyes.... and want to use them in God's grace and time. We can get a little ravenous at times for more and more and yet, at the end of the day, are we living such that we can honestly say to others, "If you have seen me, you have seen the Father"?
Post in Peace and remember that while you might see the tapestry from one particular angle (namely, your own) others may not. Does that mean they can see nothing of the tapestry at all? Certainly not. Teaching is a gift from God and He gives it to whomsoever He will, for His purpose. If you do indeed have truth to teach, first, wait on the Lord, and then do so (teach) according to His way, and we find that in Scripture, over and over (His way).
Again, what do we do with the verses in Revelation where the Churches are told to repent? see for example, Revelation 2
Bless you ....><>
Active
@Br. Bear,
When I post on this site, I'm posting information that I've studied for years; only God can truly give knowledge of His word. God told us to meditate on these things and He will prosper us (1Ti. 4:15). We speak what we believe God gives us but we can know if we are correct or in error by the scriptures of His word. All scriptures are given for correction in righteousness (2Ti. 3:16). If I post wrong scriptural information, I expect for someone to correct me, but not through their opinions. I post scripture and explain what I've understood through the word, and if I'm to be corrected, I believe God's word has the answers which can be explained to me for the purpose of showing me where I've erred. If someone gives me only scripture without their feedback, I'm still understanding what I've wrote and nothing has changed. But if they explain their thoughts (with scripture reference) at least all can see and God will give the revelation. If I'm wrong I have no problem changing my view, but I will not if no one has given me any credible scripture that refutes the scriptures I post with my explanation.
I've continually asked for someone to show me in scripture, where does it teach Jesus took away the punishment of sin, but He did not take away sin? I've asked for someone to contradict Romans 8:2. Jesus' sacrifice made believers free from sin, not just the penalty of sin, but the cause of the penalty. If the penalty of sin is removed, why would the cause of the penalty be allowed to remain? I could never get an answer according to scripture.
Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin "AND" death.
All have sinned (pass tense) before Christ's death; that's the context of Romans 3:23; and as you continue to read it teaches Christ freely redeemed man from their sins if they believe. The word "FROM" denotes a separation. If a believer is separated from the nature of sin, "HOW" can they be united with what they are separated from? Only God can give knowledge but the knowledge must be scripturally based.
Romans 6:18
Being then made free "from sin," you became the servants of righteousness.
When I post on this site, I'm posting information that I've studied for years; only God can truly give knowledge of His word. God told us to meditate on these things and He will prosper us (1Ti. 4:15). We speak what we believe God gives us but we can know if we are correct or in error by the scriptures of His word. All scriptures are given for correction in righteousness (2Ti. 3:16). If I post wrong scriptural information, I expect for someone to correct me, but not through their opinions. I post scripture and explain what I've understood through the word, and if I'm to be corrected, I believe God's word has the answers which can be explained to me for the purpose of showing me where I've erred. If someone gives me only scripture without their feedback, I'm still understanding what I've wrote and nothing has changed. But if they explain their thoughts (with scripture reference) at least all can see and God will give the revelation. If I'm wrong I have no problem changing my view, but I will not if no one has given me any credible scripture that refutes the scriptures I post with my explanation.
I've continually asked for someone to show me in scripture, where does it teach Jesus took away the punishment of sin, but He did not take away sin? I've asked for someone to contradict Romans 8:2. Jesus' sacrifice made believers free from sin, not just the penalty of sin, but the cause of the penalty. If the penalty of sin is removed, why would the cause of the penalty be allowed to remain? I could never get an answer according to scripture.
Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin "AND" death.
All have sinned (pass tense) before Christ's death; that's the context of Romans 3:23; and as you continue to read it teaches Christ freely redeemed man from their sins if they believe. The word "FROM" denotes a separation. If a believer is separated from the nature of sin, "HOW" can they be united with what they are separated from? Only God can give knowledge but the knowledge must be scripturally based.
Romans 6:18
Being then made free "from sin," you became the servants of righteousness.
Active
I believe all believers must repent, but they are not repenting from sin. Revelations does not command the Churches to repent from sin (that I've seen), but we all must repent from our dead works/unfruitful works which are characteristics that denies us putting on the character of love in Christ. Scripture does not teach believers will be judged for their sins, but it does teach believers will be judged according to their works (Rev. 22:12). If a believer does not bring forth 30%, 60%, or 100% of the character of Christ, that believer is a tare in the body of Christ and will be gathered out of the Kingdom of God and cast into the furnace of fire (Mat. 13:39-42).
Luke 15:7
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
The just are the righteous; Jesus is telling us here, He's not come to call the Righteous to repent from sin, He's calling sinners to repent from sin. The righteous are not sick, only the sinner Jesus came to heal (all believers are righteous). And we know Jesus took our sins in His own body on the tree, that now we being "dead" to sin we should live unto righteousness. By Christ stripes all believers were healed (1Pet. 2:24). How can a believer ever become sick again with sin if Jesus has healed them? If a believer ever gets sick from sin, then they were never born again believers in the first place or their deceived. Jesus finished the work of sin and cancelled it out (Dan. 9:24). Look at Hebrews 9:26, at the word, "put away" in the Greek - it means cancelled.
Mark 2:17
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Answered this above...
Active
@regibassman57
I apologize for not reading every post in this thread - took a bit of a break.
I know there are a lot of different ways that believers look at the topic of sin. Some focus on the part that God does not impute sin to a believer and so they say we do not sin. Some focus on our calling to not be bound by sin and so they say a true believer cannot sin because then this means they are not living up to their calling, so they are not a true believer. Some say that even tho we have been given a new heart and are under the blood of Christ (holy in God's sight), yet we do not always live up to God's plan and we fail (or sin?) when tested. Is this sin if we are repentant? Does it really matter what we call it?
I believe what matters is that our lives show that we are honestly trying to follow Christ and conform to His image. Whether we technically call our failings sin or not, we repent of them and rejoice in the grace available to us, growing in sanctification. If we are in the bondage of sin and we find it difficult to be victorious, there is a better way for us.
I apologize for not reading every post in this thread - took a bit of a break.
I know there are a lot of different ways that believers look at the topic of sin. Some focus on the part that God does not impute sin to a believer and so they say we do not sin. Some focus on our calling to not be bound by sin and so they say a true believer cannot sin because then this means they are not living up to their calling, so they are not a true believer. Some say that even tho we have been given a new heart and are under the blood of Christ (holy in God's sight), yet we do not always live up to God's plan and we fail (or sin?) when tested. Is this sin if we are repentant? Does it really matter what we call it?
I believe what matters is that our lives show that we are honestly trying to follow Christ and conform to His image. Whether we technically call our failings sin or not, we repent of them and rejoice in the grace available to us, growing in sanctification. If we are in the bondage of sin and we find it difficult to be victorious, there is a better way for us.
Active
The fact of the matter is, all of us come short. Nobody can be perfect (other than in Christ). So if I say that a Christian does not sin, either I am ignoring my failings, or calling them something other than "sin", or relying on Jesus' blood to cover them and thus say my actions of the flesh are not sin, or I am lifting up an impossible standard that nobody can live up to.
Regardless though, nobody can make it without Christ. On Christ the Solid Rock I Stand.
Regardless though, nobody can make it without Christ. On Christ the Solid Rock I Stand.
Active
On the topic of the Old Man...
I really like the thought that:
Our old man was bound by sin and that was its focus.
In our new man is a new heart and new desires. Sin no longer has dominion over us. Altho we are not perfect yet we are a new creature in Christ who desires to be more like Him.
I really like the thought that:
Our old man was bound by sin and that was its focus.
In our new man is a new heart and new desires. Sin no longer has dominion over us. Altho we are not perfect yet we are a new creature in Christ who desires to be more like Him.